Bridge To Brisbane In 33:53: Race By Feel, Not By Watch | EP 105

[00:00] In the Beginning Podcast, episode one hundred and five. Courtney Atkinson, welcome back. Good to be back, Liam. We missed you last week. We missed you last week. I've had great feedback on the ep with Adzy Gordon. Thank you again to Adzy Gordon. My wife said how much she enjoyed Adzy's perspective on running, just as a general kind of - well, he's a coach. I was thinking about this because I listened back to the episode, and I thought about it as I was driving here this morning: in the same way that certain people have biological features that make them good athletes,

[00:37] certain people just have the demeanour of a coach. We talk about this in some football sports occasionally, where the best player, the one who is the most talented, the most gifted, doesn't always necessarily make the best coach, because it just comes easy to them. Yep. And I think what you've got in Adzy - and Benita's another good example of this - is just the right demeanour to coach people. Yeah. I listened to some of the end of it, I didn't get all the way through it. I really like the stuff of bringing it back to just: you go and run.

[01:10] Everyone can find somewhere they'll run, whether it's alone, whether it's a run club. I love the positive outlook on that. Because we have a lot of fun, right, with all the different types of running, but the reality is we're here for everyone running. That is our baseline. Brilliant. We operate from the baseline that people running is a brilliant thing. Speaking of people running - yep - let's get straight into Bridge to Brisbane. Brisbane, where you were running last weekend. Yep. Well, while you were having that chat with Adzy, I was away all week out driving cars. Yes, yes.

[01:40] Actually, I dropped an episode - Outback Mike. Randomly, I got put in a car, a Subaru. So before I get to Bridge to Brisbane, let me quickly give you the context: if you go and have a listen this morning, there's a bonus episode, a short one. I'm sitting in a car in a transition stage in a live rally. So Toby Price, some of the best Subaru rally car drivers, we're in it. We're in a production car, but we're literally driving the live rally course.

[02:12] Pretty much go as hard as you want within reason. For both of us, yeah - half a stage I'd drive, then Outback Mike. So one of the new Subarus, the latest Subaru Outback Wilderness. Okay. Effectively, down the fence line on the dirt at one stage, I was probably doing about 110. Okay, right. That doesn't seem like much, but it's corrugated, a small track in the bush. But then I said to Toby Price at the end of the day, who was driving a proper production rally spec WRX -

[02:48] okay - so what were you doing down there, mate? 190. Oh! And I would have thought I was, you know, when you're doing a sport, killing it. Mind you, we're within reason, no help - like, they're fully spec'd up and we're just in the production car - but it was great fun. But I got put in with Outback Mike. So some people probably know Outback Mike is Mike Atkinson - good last name, no relation to me though. I got put in the car with him. Now, he was the runner-up on the very first season of Alone.

[03:19] Yes, on SBS. So I think he was out there sixty-four days. Jeez. On his own. He told me some stories about how he's gone without food for twenty-four days in a row. Twenty-four days in a row, no food. That's insane. Hopefully I've got that quite right - I don't know if he mentioned that on the podcast or whether that was later. But we were talking about, you know, how they say that three, three, three: three minutes breathing, three days water, and then food.

[03:55] Yeah. And he was saying, well, yeah... But anyway, he's a very interesting guy in the sense that he comes from a military background, worked with Indigenous communities, learned a lot of his survival techniques around Indigenous culture. Okay. And military, yes. And then he has now taken that out into, arguably, the media world, to teach people how to survive. He's about to jump in an EV with a generator and go across the Simpson Desert.

[04:26] Jeez. I think he's paddled a bloody old-school canoe across as well. Anyway, super interesting - go and have a check of it out. But that's what I was up to last week. I was out fanging cars around a rally track while doing podcasts on the transition stage. That's amazing, that's great. But then you did put your running shoes on. Then I got back - yes, so I got back, quickly did a few exercises, a couple of runs, and then hit Bridge to Brisbane. There are a lot of runners at Bridge to Brisbane. Let's just say, you know, because Gold Coast Marathon, I suppose, that's thirty to forty thousand, but you've got the half marathon, the marathon, you've got all the

[05:03] different events. Whereas I think at Bridge to Brisbane it's a bit unique, because you line up on that Gateway Bridge and you're kind of - where I was, up near the front of the start line - and then you just look back and you're going downhill and you're just seeing the sea of people, and then it goes across the bridge back towards the Metroplex. Far out, the look. But look, it's a 10K run for those that haven't done it. And we know this about City to Surf.

[05:34] We know this about the City to Bay. We know the one that was just over in Perth the other weekend. It's a great distance. It's a great distance. It's challenging enough if you're not a big runner, but it's also accessible. It's a good one if you're chasing a PB or a hit-out or something like that. It's a great distance. So, how many - do you know what numbers there were for Bridge to Brisbane? I believe 40,000-ish over the whole week, the day, or whatever it was. But I mean, when you just see that many people on the road...

[06:06] So I ran - as a Gold Coaster now getting into Bridge to Brisbane, the dilemma is, because I just went up on my own and I just wanted to run and kind of get out of there, it's like when you've got point to point, but you don't take your phone. I don't take my phone to run. I want to be as light as possible to race. So you're then starting to go, well, how do I get back to the car? What do I do? I want to warm up. So I kind of split it and parked around Doomben. Yep. Ran 5K to the start, yep, did the run, and then ran 5K back.

[06:36] The great thing about running the 5K back to Doomben is I got to see - I ran against the flow. I was running along the river path. The whole way back I was running, and it was, like, to get across the road to where my car was, I had to actually jump back into the race and kind of - what's the old frog game? I was playing Frogger, I was doing Frogger across the road to get there. So it was just great to see that many people out having a great morning. How did you...? Well, what did I say? I predicted a time, didn't I?

[07:06] Or I said I was happy with a time last time we spoke. I feel like we had you somewhere around thirty-four minutes. Yeah, and I hit it on the money. I went thirty-three fifty-two. Wow. Thirty-three fifty-two is the time, which is great. I mean, that's right on the money of where I thought it would be nice to be at that stage. And just for everyone playing along at home, PB all time over ten K - do you have it? Do you know what it is? I never trust it, but sub thirty, for sure.

[07:38] You've broken thirty. But you never know - even that one on the weekend, I'd put an asterisk as to whether it was actually ten kilometres. Yeah. Okay. Who knows? But as we say around here, take it when you can take it. So what I did do, which was funny, was when I jumped on Strava, put it up on Strava, it obviously gives you the other times you've run it. So the last time I did run it was two thousand and twelve, and I ran thirty-one thirty.

[08:09] I think age has caught up a bit. Quickly, for those playing along at home: Courtney Atkinson, 33:53 official time on the results page. On the results page. You finished 60th out of the 28,000. Yeah. You were the 58th male across the line out of thirteen and a half thousand. Courtney Atkinson, congratulations on winning the forty to forty-nine category. You're first across the line in the forty to forty-nine category.

[08:41] Congratulations. I know, it's awesome, but to me - do you know what the best part of this was? Yeah, it's that I haven't raced a race, what I call a race. You know, we talk about the marathons as survival and everything else, but 10K is a distance you can red line. You know, if you're on that red line, you've got to pull off a bit. I don't think the people around me realised how hard I was racing them. Like, there were kids, and some guy I ran into the fence to get out of the headwind.

[09:18] We also - I do want to give a shout out to friend of the pod, Ally Linden. Yes, who crossed the line as the first female. I had her in sight. She's definitely a benchmark. She ended up about a minute ahead of you, thirty-three oh seven, coming across the line as the first female across the line. Geez, she's racing well. She's a fantastic woman. Well, I knew she'd - I saw her on the start line and she wanted to break thirty-three. She thought she'd be around that time. And I said, well, I'm not going to see you.

[09:49] However, I could see you up the road, like, you know, a few hundred metres up the road. And I'm thinking, I'm going a bit quick, I'm going too quick here, knowing she'd pace it right, because I didn't pace off a watch. So, hey, what did you run to? What did I run to? I just went and ran. Raced. Why would you run to - this is my point. Sometimes you've just got to go and run. Okay, go and run. I was racing. You're racing. I mean, but if you don't know what you're racing, or who you're racing...

[10:21] Yeah, but your racing is hard. That's the whole point of it, and if you're going to go and do something like that and race, go as hard as you can. And this is where I think, you know, some people are going to disagree with me, because you've got all this technology now. But you can also be very limited by the technology, thinking, well, I'm over... geez, that was a three-oh-something. Look, in hindsight, I can see my splits. I ran down the bridge in a 3:01, which is why my calves are so sore today.

[10:53] And if I'd seen that, I would have gone, ooh - oh yeah, settle down. But the reality is there are ups and downs, and you sometimes just have to go and figure out where you're at with your body, and you do that by listening to your body. Can we draw a line on that for the average runner? If you can't pace a race to feel, you're relying too much on your tech. Okay. All right, I like that. Quickly, I did really want to ask you -

[11:25] we always talk about the experience of these events, and you and I have had a lot of experience around ASICS events, because that's what the Gold Coast Marathon is. We know Nike is on the way with Melbourne. Interestingly, three or four times in the last couple of weeks, when talking to people about Melbourne Marathon, I have called it the Nike Marathon. I don't know, I just think it's - I don't know if it's a Freudian thing, I don't know why, but my brain is now calling it the Nike Marathon as opposed to the Melbourne Marathon, which I'll unpack with my therapist, but figure that out.

[11:58] I wanted to ask you about how you saw the presence of Brooks at Bridge to Brisbane. I saw them at the - so I was up in Brisbane on Friday and I called in to get some bibs, not just mine, a few of the Gold Coast crew's as well. And they were there at the expo. Yep. I'm just trying to think - LSKD I saw, yes. Dr Hydrate, okay, I saw. But Brooks had the main area there and looked the most - I'd say they looked the most premium in that space.

[12:31] They're the presenting partner of the marathon. I'm just curious to know. Okay, so you want to know the winner of the weekend? La Roche. La Roche. Is it La Roche? La Roche. You mean the sun cream brand? Sunscreen brand. Yeah, really? Why is that? Do you know why they're the winner? Where I was around the 5K mark, where I parked - yeah - so I ran back there, and in the race, that's the activation I noticed on course.

[13:03] Handing out sun cream. But they just had - it was just vibrant, and maybe, I can't recall, maybe they even had a live screen so you could actually see yourself run. That's a good - everyone wants to look at themselves. Cool. I might be wrong on whose that was. Okay. But the two things I remember on course were the colours of the sun cream, yep, and this video. But here's where they really won: when you uploaded to Strava, they had the race segment as a sponsored segment that automatically popped up to anyone looking at that race.

[13:38] Really? Now, you could choose - because I was interested in this - you could choose afterwards to go into Strava and remove that sponsored little, you know, 'you ran the Bridge to Brisbane'. You've got the choice, but it initially pops up, and I'd say ninety-nine percent of people would just leave it there. So effectively, every single person who ran in the Bridge to Brisbane on Strava, you would have seen this other brand. Bridge to Brisbane with - not Brooks, but what do you call it? La Roche, per se, is the brand.

[14:10] Interestingly as well, there is clearly a segment, and I don't know where it sat, within the 10K race called The Athlete's Foot Fastest Feet. Because when you go on the results page of the Bridge to Brisbane, you're all ranked within that segment as well. Yeah, in their results page. I see. Here's the challenge of today's, and this is why I say the sun cream brand was the winner. Yeah.

[14:41] And this is brand attribution, right? Because I'm sitting here and I didn't know how to pronounce the name. Yeah. I've probably seen them around. The colours, the orange, was really distinctive. But if I was to go into a shop and buy a sun cream, I would now recognise that brand. Right, so that has done their job. Here's the key: if you're inside the results, the official results, I go to look at the overall time, but I use Strava to look at my run. And if someone else is seeing me run, they might look at the official results to see a time.

[15:14] But someone on Strava who follows you, they're looking at, well, I wonder what his splits were, or whatever it is. So I believe, yeah, Strava's still the winner there. Yeah, nice. Well, well done, because this was part of the plan that you laid out for us, what, two, three weeks ago - you had this plan mapped out. And now we're leaning into Melbourne Marathon. Yep, half marathon. Fantastic. But you - I was doing my own, I was living my own war.

[15:46] Swim run. What's the swim run? Swim Run Australia is the overarching event; this was the Gold Coast leg. 'Swim Run is for the amphibious' is their tagline. And yeah, it was the first one I've ever done. I did the - I think it was called the Experience, which was a 12K race. Yeah. The Enduro was the 20, the Experience was the 12, and there was a 5K called the Discovery as well. And loved it.

[16:18] So for those who don't know swim run, the key element here is you've got to wear your shoes and equipment in the swim and the run. The Swim Run Experience 12K course that I did, 12.1K in total, 1.7 of that is swimming, 10.4 of it is running. You start with a run and you're into a run - sorry, you're into a swim after about a kilometre worth of running, and then it's broken up from there. It is compulsory to have shoes on, because obviously you're running, you're running over rocks at different parts as well.

[16:51] Here's - I've got some takeaways. Firstly, a lesson for everybody out there: never let pride get in the way of efficiency. The swim run allows you to swim with a pull buoy, for those that don't know what those are - the floaty things that people stick between their legs when they're swimming. It also allows you to use hand paddles. Yes. The thing about these is that if you swim with them, you have to run with them.

[17:22] That's basically the rules of swim run. I had my floaty pants on, my floaty shorts, yep, which a lot of people did. I thought in my head, I thought I'll look like - it's wussy to use the pull buoy and the paddles, I don't want to be that guy. I turned up on the day and everybody had them. Such a mistake. Yep. I think I would have performed better had I had those things with me.

[17:54] Anyway, lesson one. Well, part of the paddle thing is you've obviously got a lot of drag with your shoes, yeah, so it would help. Lesson one: don't let pride get in the way of racing your best race. Second lesson is: don't be first to the first swim, which I was. So the Experience race, the twelve K race, started at Currumbin Beach and then you raced around to the Alley and ran down the creek a little bit, and then you swam.

[18:27] I was the first, I got to the creek first, and I was like, where do we go? Did you not just have to swim across it? Yeah, we found it eventually. So that was lesson number two: don't be first there. Know the course is probably the better way to describe it. Know the course. Because we were joking on the start line, people were asking us about the course and I honestly told people just follow whoever's in front. Yeah. No, this was Currumbin. Creek, creek, yeah. And then what, did you have to swim across it?

[18:57] You swam down it towards the ground. Yeah, you went under the big bridge. Anyway, that was lesson two. Lesson three is: it doesn't matter how good a runner you are, if you're a bad swimmer, people will make up heaps of time on you. I had the amazing experience - I never thought I'd be in a race with Coolangatta Gold ironman legends, and Zane Holmes. He's part of the Alley Cats crew. And Big Zane, geez, that man can still swim.

[19:29] He's a big A-frame of a human. Like, he is an upside down triangle, if you've ever seen one. But I was first to the creek. I think I came out tenth. Zane was one of the people that went past me. Now, I caught Zane on that next run and made the comment to him as I jogged past. I said, Zane, this is pathetic. You've got to teach me to swim. Anyway, we got to - there was another little fifty metre swim across to the Palm Beach dog park. And then it was a long four and a half K soft sand run.

[19:59] That hurt. It really hurt. Like, I think we were - I was probably looking at my watch, I was probably running five fifteens and catching people, right? So by the time I hit the next swim at Tallebudgera Creek, I was into fourth again. I'd run past a lot of people. Tallebudgera Creek swim, I'd drop some more spots, run around Burleigh, and then this is where - the swim at Burleigh was like an out through the surf, down the beach, and then back in through the surf.

[20:30] And this is where my inexperience as an open water swimmer hit me, because it was pretty big. Well, in my mind it was pretty big. And I got to the entry point for this Burleigh open water swim and basically I had to take about - I wanted to bring my heart rate down a little bit anyway, but it took about twenty seconds just to process what I had to swim out to, because it was swimming out to a can and down. Anyway, in the end I probably had this frantic twenty second as-fast-as-I-can swim moment trying to get through the breakers.

[21:01] And then next thing I know, I was out there. Got into some deep water, calmly swam down. And then as I was coming back in, same thing, just horrible, frantic, panicked. Because of the waves. Because of just not knowing how - just not feeling comfortable traversing them. Anyway, ten point four K's worth of running, only one point seven K's worth of swimming. Zane smashed me. Zane smashed me. In fairness, how much?

[21:32] One point seven. One point seven K's worth of swimming, versus ten point four K's worth of running. Yeah, so you're probably half - well, it's actually a little bit short on the swim, but if you put it apples for apples, like, I'm being very - no, I'm just saying, like, you know, half an hour for two K, half an hour for ten K. Yeah, I know most people aren't going to run ten K, but give me an idea. But yeah, yeah. But then interestingly, so then it finished off - and again, this goes to show the power of the brain versus the power of the body.

[22:05] The whole time, the entire time - the race took me about 90 minutes all up - for an hour and 28 minutes, I can tell you, I was thinking about the final swim leg, which took you around North Burleigh headland. Yeah, okay. That's the final leg of the race. There's not really a headland there. In your mind there's not. In my mind, that is Uluru in the ocean. Well, this is where we get to: by the time we got there, I get to - there's a water safety fella standing at the beach.

[22:40] Because there's a buoy out there, a buoy out in the ocean, and there's a rubber ducky out there. And in my mind I was panicked - the whole race I was worried about this final swim. We get there and I said to the young fella, I'm like, what's it like out there? And he's like, it's pretty rough. And I was like, that's the last thing I wanted to hear. And anyway, in the meantime, the currents are running and there's quite a bit of chop and there's waves breaking, all the rest of it. And there's these people in the rubber ducky just waving you out, because there was quite a swell going on and a big sweep.

[23:15] Thank you. And they're waving you out, trying to get you to essentially swim away from the buoy. Yeah, so you're swept down. Swept down, and then you hook back in about a hundred metres. Yeah. I stood again, a little moment just in the shallows, looking at the buoy, looking at the rubber ducky, watching some other people decide to just get swept. And then I looked at the rocks. I thought I might just deep wade this. And so I ended up just walking around the rocks, like deep wading it, because you could.

[23:45] Yeah. No, no, no, I didn't go out to the buoy. I just went around the rocks. Didn't go out to the buoy - complete. Well, they did say at the start line, if you didn't want to do that last headland... That's a cop-out, Liam. Hang on, hang on. A heap of people didn't make the final buoy because of the conditions. Hang on, which - this was Saturday. I'm just trying to think what the morning was like. No, no, no, don't post-judge me in your mind about the conditions. They were significant enough that a lot of people didn't make that final buoy.

[24:19] I'm going to have to have a word. This is - that's not an option. Well, you can't say in a race there's an option. Hey, that's like saying you can run 10K or you can turn early and run 9.5. I'm going to - you'll go into the, what is it, the official timing. Yeah, you're going to dob me in. Shout out to the people at Official Unofficial if you'd like to branch out from just running into swim run events. Anyway. Hey, if they get into that area of swimming, triathlon and running, they're going to have a lot of issues in running, yeah.

[24:52] Amazing event. I'm definitely going back, and not just to the Gold Coast one - I reckon I'll find another one to have a crack at. Awesome concept, awesome fun, and yeah, really enjoyed it. I've only had one experience at it. I think the brand was called Breca, and I did it in Wanaka. So on the lake in Wanaka, and then we ran up around, you know, literally on the trails around Wanaka, in and out, across to some islands and everything else. And I did it with Braden Currie as a partner on the day.

[25:23] You guys - well, we did, because he tried... we weren't doing much partnering. He was trying to give it to me and then I'm trying to keep up. Yeah. Yes, yes, we did that. But it was fun, because especially if you're very focused on - a bit like trail running, you know - if you're focused on triathlons and you're worried about your bike and your helmet and all the speed, this kind of throws all that out and you just get to enjoy it.

[25:53] The thing I like about this is we both come into this episode today having got out and done some activities. Some fun weekend stuff. This is good. Also on that swim run, because I know Ty Dowker gave us a nice video - Dow was just waiting for me on one side of the creek mid-race - and here's the one bit of feedback I would give to the swim run organisers: don't make a swimmer run in white rashies. They are the least flattering colour. Those vests, those white vests, they are not flattering.

[26:23] They brought me down to earth like nothing else, seeing that video. I was swimming with the race director of it this morning, down at the creek. Like, vertical stripes, black and dark blue, please. That fluoro would be fine. Okay, fine, but no more white. Okay, white was not my friend. Shout out - if you are, because I know you are, all of this is leading up to Noosa Triathlon for training, right? If you are like Liam and need more experience in open water, because Noosa can have the same conditions where you get a bit of a wave or chop or whatever it is,

[27:02] come and join us down at Saltwater Swimmers Wednesday morning. I was down there this morning, and there is no substitute for time in the open water for Noosa. Like, if you are training for Noosa - I'm speaking as someone who has spent years pool swimming and then getting up to Noosa and going shit, shit, shit, shit, shit, shit. The years I have enjoyed that swim most are when I've bothered to put the time in out in the ocean. But the key one, I think, that's even probably more important than the ocean, is just learning to swim in the open water in a group, like in between everyone.

[27:35] Yes. So on a morning like this morning, we're down there in the creek, all the different levels, you know, from beginners right through to some of the best swimmers in the - yeah, there's not me anymore, mate, but there are groups in there. But you know, it's practising getting around the can with other people, because that's where a lot of the anxiety... Yeah, well, because it's essentially like turning a corner in a car as people turn in on you. Like, it's being on the inside with a bus on the outside or something. Yeah, go and see Dow, he's a great man.

[28:07] Yeah. But it's been a big week for sports media this week. Okay, where do you want to start? There's a couple of big stories. Where do you want to start? Hyrox. I mean, so my question is: is good media - I'm sorry - is bad media still good media? Joanna Wietrzyk, for any of those wondering what we're talking about, aka the pooing Hyrox one. Yep. This is the Aussie who pooed herself.

[28:37] I'm going to make a disclaimer here. Okay. I've actually spent time with Joanna. So I've run a lap of Uluru, around the base of Uluru. Funny enough, she was with me on that trip. No! I'm saying, like, I think there is a little bit here - I know people are piling on. What's your take on it? You would have seen it.

[29:07] Everyone's seen it. Did you have any specific reaction? Because I did. I mean, yeah, the same reaction as if you pooed yourself right now, Liam, sitting across from me in the chair, and then walked down the hall here. Yeah. I had a very definitive reaction: Hyrox should have stepped in. Of course. Every sport in the world has a duty of care to its competitors.

[29:39] From the footballing codes introducing HIA head injury assessments, just trying, you know, for the future of CTE in their sports, down to something as simple as kids' soccer where you have to wear shin pads, right? Every sport has a duty of care to its athletes. I don't think anyone disagrees with that. Hyrox, the officials on course that day, anybody involved, the judge who was watching her do lunges to make sure she completed the reps - they had to step in to

[30:10] stop it. I wonder whether the team they run with in China is the same team they'd run with across the globe? That would be my question. You know, because when you're running events globally, you obviously have local organisers who will run certain things. So my first question would be: did they have the right information to make the right calls on the day? Obviously they didn't, because Hyrox has since come out and clarified and amended their rules.

[30:40] Well, it's all stuff about you're not allowed to spit, and a whole range of things that already existed. Yeah. I mean, they probably thought, surely we don't have to write this rule down: you are not allowed to poo yourself on course and keep racing. Yeah. But still, look, Joanna Wietrzyk, undeniable athlete. If she's prepared to - I guess she made a decision in her head, I'm going to keep going, and that is her right. I think the

[31:10] the sport, the code, the environment let her down, and therefore let everybody else around her down, by not stepping in. That's what officials are for - which is also now piling on her, probably, as an individual, right? Well, so I don't blame her. I don't blame her. She is an athlete competing. And I'm sort of following - thoughts on this debate? Because I've seen a bit of it, like, where this has been celebrated nearly before, in marathons or outside events, where it's nearly seen as a toughness to go

[31:50] - something undeniably tough and brave about powering on through. If we remove the yuckiness of it, right, if we try to remove the yuckiness, it's your body failing in some way, right? It's like me pulling a calf muscle mid-run. Yeah, it's whatever. It's like dehydration. It's a failure of your body in performance mode, right? If you power through your body failing in any of those things, we do tip our caps to you.

[32:25] We think that's the mind, right? That's your mind being stronger than your body, which is great. It's what we want and we all strive for it. And there's a little bit of over-celebration of it on Instagram occasionally, but nevertheless, her brain, her mind, was stronger than her body during this race, and she powered through. The environment is the key factor here - that there's other people around, equipment. You can't sit on a rowing machine in soiled activewear and keep - you can't. You can't. Well, you can. No, but you should be

[32:56] stopped. You can't pick up a wall ball, a medicine ball, when you're covered in that and be allowed to continue. I don't think anyone is in disagreement. In disagreement. My kids have been through the nappy phase, my kids have been through the nappy phase - when they're not yet old enough to go to the toilet themselves, that operation of changing a child's nappy is one where you don't want them touching anything, let alone a SkiErg.

[33:27] So does this hurt Hyrox? Or does it actually just - I don't think it, you know, but I don't think it hurts it. Because Angus asks, are you going to still do your Hyrox, Liam? Well, thank you for the question, Angus. I kid you not: Sunday - I'm just finding the message - Saturday night at eleven thirty-nine PM, I received a text message from my friend in Adelaide, said to my wife and I, I want to do the Brisbane Hyrox, are you guys keen?

[33:57] This was on Saturday night, the same weekend this happened. Do you reckon he saw this? And she - she had not seen it. Because then she sent me another text message on Monday saying, have you seen the news about Hyrox today? So this is just worlds colliding. And yes, I'm still going to do it. And I think my wife and I have decided we're going to do it together. It's going to be a marriage affair at the Hyrox. And it's going to be a quest to see who doesn't shit themselves. Just make sure you don't have too much fibre.

[34:28] Fibre the day before, then. All right, let's move on to the other big sporting story of the - well, I want to talk running, let's go to the running one first. Did you watch any of the World Athletics Ultimate format? Yep. You have? Yeah, yeah. Did you watch it live, highlights? How did you consume it? That's what I'm interested in. Not live, I've consumed it on socials, and I've watched a couple of - so all short form. You actually haven't sat down and watched the whole event. No. Interesting. This is - you didn't have time. Well, this is

[35:01] this is where sports formats are going, right? So you have the World Athletics Championships. Yep. Arguably - I mean, it's a pseudo World Athletics Championships for the year, they don't have the official World Athletics Championship. Yep. Different format, relatively same outcome. Just put a bit of lights and polish on it, right? And it works. And it worked really well. I did watch on replay the live elements. I fast-forwarded little bits, but it's been the first time I've watched that much athletics in one hit over a four day period.

[35:34] And it was because I kept getting spammed on my algorithm on YouTube. Yep. My question is - it was a great event. Yeah. Lots of great performances, great racing. Cool. Yeah. As cool as I think I've seen world athletics look and feel for a while. So how do they do a better job to get this in front of more people? On the broadcast? Just, yes, in general.

[36:04] How do we - like, because we've just gone from talking about a Hyrox event and an outcome of that. Way more coverage than the World Athletics Championships just got. If you went down the street right at the moment... Outrage. Yeah, I mean, we know news: outrage is always going to win over accomplishments anyway. But still, I've got the question of how do World Athletics get outside of the athletics bubble to a wider range of people, when they've got not just the Olympics, but actually

[36:40] world sport. And this is not just an athletics issue, right? This is a triathlon issue. It's a lot of endurance sports' issue. I mean, cycling you could probably argue at the same time. When the Tour's on, it brings in a wider audience outside of the Tour. The majority of people who would follow the Tour probably don't follow cycling year round. Yep. It's a big question. And if anybody from the World Athletics Ultimate Championship would like my answer, my email is - for a fee.

[37:12] I just think in the world of athletics it is all athlete driven. It is about the individuals, it is about the rivalry, and right now I don't think Kenny Bednarek is Usain Bolt. And I don't know, particularly down here in Australia.

[37:43] Look, Cam Myers - for those that didn't see it, what Cam Myers did in finishing second to Josh Kerr in the 1,500 metres was brilliant. And if Cam Myers can find a way to beat Josh Kerr in the next 12 months, and if Cam Myers can find a - just, I'm not saying he's boring at all, he's incredibly - I love the way he spoke at the Commonwealth Games about finishing second there. I really like his attitude to racing. But in the same way that Noah Lyles - Noah Lyles was a spectator for these, getting more coverage because he was sitting next to Usain Bolt.

[38:21] That's still what draws our eyeballs to the world of athletics. Carl Lewis, Michael Johnson, Usain Bolt, even Maurice Greene. Flo-Jo, Florence Griffith Joyner. These individual athletes are what get the casual fan interested. And right now, Mondo Duplantis is an interesting one. Yeah, which was again interesting. Yeah, we're just still not there with some of these athletes being kind of mainstream enough to

[38:53] - see, it's hero athletes to draw you into the larger event. I think so, yeah. Which is - or it's a hero rivalry. There needs to be, you know, some manufactured or otherwise. Yeah, we need that animosity to get - look, honestly, the best thing for World Athletics right now is if Josh Kerr and Cam Myers get in a barney. Imagine if Josh Kerr and Cam Myers had a run-in.

[39:24] I think for Australia that makes sense, but you're missing the bigger picture there - you're missing Ingebrigtsen, and that is the big story. Yeah, because that was part of the story that drove some expectation of this world championship and interest. Yep. The race didn't happen, but that actually drove - there is the story, because you've got Ingebrigtsen as this - he is a true hero. He is the distance runner from the past five years that is the one that makes the noise.

[39:59] Well, not makes the noise - actually makes the records, makes the... He's the one that everyone's followed, right? Yes. Even after Josh Kerr has broken that mile record, yep, the big dog is still Ingebrigtsen. Agree. Yep. Well, and you look back to Brussels, which I think happened a week ago. Or - yes, yes. Where Ingebrigtsen came out after the race and made noise because the American runner, I forget his name, had swapped out the pacer for this event, and in the end Ingebrigtsen had

[40:33] to go to the front and do all the pacing. And then he lost to Cam Myers. And then Ingebrigtsen comes out and, in his fashion, had a go at the American runner, had a go at the rest of the field for running like a bunch of cowards, I think was his phrase. That's still - the purity of sport is a lovely idea to be able to promote. It's naive. We have too many things that can draw our attention away to think that the purity of anything, the pure beauty of something, is going to maintain our attention these days.

[41:07] It's not a fault of ours, it's just the world we live in. Be a really good segue to Sydney Sweeney, but let's not go there. Let's not get there right now. But that could have been a good segue. Yeah, I agree. It's the heroes. You come to see the hero, yeah. You turn on to see the heroes, and then it lifts the whole sport. Yep. Yeah, to work again. Wrestling. WWE figured this out years ago.

[41:38] You need a face and you need a heel. Yeah. People will watch - they love the wrestling, sure, but what they really invest in is the character. They come to see the show. Yeah, they come to see the show. Do you want to talk about - let's go to Sydney Sweeney. You opened the door, let's step through it. For those that haven't seen the ad, Sydney Sweeney is promoting a betting agency, which reports are she has equity in. Well, it - no.

[42:10] It is. I mean, it does make a difference. If you have owner- like, if you're pushing your own brand or your own equity effectively. Yeah. But how is it different to if she's doing it for a fee? Like, ultimately, more motivation than just a fee - there's an opportunity for a bigger payout. True, but it's just like - take the boys down here with Balter.

[42:43] If it was just a drinks business giving them some coin, I'm sure they wouldn't have been as invested as in, like, we're the owners, and we're going to - you know, there's an outcome here that effectively we end up selling this off. And that's a very different problem. So, like, when this all first came out, you didn't realise she had equity. If she has got equity, that's a different conversation than just someone paying her to do an ad. That's my take on it. Okay, yeah, I see what you're saying. In my head, it's not the conversation. The conversation is about - she has done this ad, for those that haven't seen it.

[43:16] She's starkers, strategically covered up throughout this ad by different bits of sporting equipment, promoting - but essentially saying this new betting platform that she is a part of is just sports. Right. And so she says it's this sport and it's this sport and it's this sport and it's this sport. The domino effect has been an overwhelming tsunami of female athletes, pro women's sport people, coming out and saying - well, it's various levels.

[43:46] Some people are saying this is a disgrace, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Some people are saying that's not what women in sport look like. And some people are also saying that Sydney Sweeney has let down women, essentially, by doing this ad. In case you haven't picked up, Courtney and I are not women. So yeah, we - but we will comment. I think - because I've read, I've consumed all of it around this.

[44:16] We've talked about it on the radio station. I've consumed so much. I'm interested, how did the radio conversation go? Well, I very much let Leisel Jones, Olympic athlete, have her say on this. Her take was very much that this doesn't devalue women's sport. Her opinion - I know I'm not going to get it word for word, but I'm going to give you the gist of it - her opinion was that this actress, actor, is not an athlete. She is doing her job, promoting something for money.

[44:52] It's in the sports area, but it should not, and does not, in her opinion, devalue any female athlete out there or what they do. That was her opinion. She goes, you should not be - she says, I don't look at what Sydney Sweeney has done as devaluing me as an Olympic swimmer. That was her take. I agree with her. I agree with her perspective on it. I also think that - I read an article by Sam Squiers, who writes for Fox Sports; you might have seen Sam across a bunch of stuff.

[45:23] I think Sam has a really strong - I think Sam gave a really nice, succinct summation of all this, which is that kind of everyone wins. The betting companies got what they wanted out of this. In the end, maximum awareness and impact of that has been achieved. Yep, so they win. Sydney Sweeney wins because she's an owner of the company, financially. I think women's sport wins, because every single reel that has been created by professional athletes, elite athletes, influencer athletes, that have come out and

[46:08] said, no, Sydney, this is what women in sport look like - twenty years ago, if this ad comes out, you don't hear that level of noise. There's not that conversation had. Well, there's no access to be able to. There's no platform to have those conversations. And I also don't think that level of noise would have been created on this issue 20 years ago. I think the platforms have helped do that, but I also think the elevation of women's sport in most codes has grown so that these athletes aren't just afterthoughts anymore.

[46:44] They are athletes treated as they should be. And so when something like this comes out and they have a voice like this, we listen now. Society more broadly listens now. So I think it's kind of a good thing for women's sport, because if anything, it's shown just how much women's sport has grown in the last two decades. That is my personal opinion. Now, just quickly, the other thing I will say - I'm not a female, I'm not a woman, but I do have a daughter. And somebody asked me, how would you feel if your daughter saw that?

[47:19] It's a difficult question. My daughter right now has fallen in love with the AFLW, because we've been going to a couple of Gold Coast Suns games. She's fallen in love with it, she loves it. The game day experience, the way the Suns are doing it, is brilliant. I don't think my daughter would watch that and think any less of the AFLW. I don't think she would. I also think that's when it comes back to the parents. Your kids are going to see stuff in the world and on the internet, right? That's when you step to the plate and you help them process what they're seeing, understand what they're seeing, explain what they're seeing,

[47:57] explain why it exists, explain how to - help them through that thinking process so that their brain forms the right pathways to process these things as they grow up. Because that stuff's not going away. The premise of sex selling has been around forever. It's not going away. And if your kids are on social media, it's prevalent - yeah, you're going to be faced with that every day of your life.

[48:28] So if your kids see this Sydney Sweeney ad, talk to them about it. Explain what you think about it, and explain how, you know, it sits within our world - that is how I would respond to the question of what if your kids saw that. Yeah, if either of my kids see that - which they won't, because they're still too young - but if they see it and they ask me about it, or if I see that they've seen it, we'll sit down and have a conversation about it. And I can guarantee that my wife, who is one of the most well balanced, poised, educated people I know on this sort of stuff, will lead that conversation and I will sit quietly behind her and

[49:05] and nod your head. Yeah, do a thing. Well, like, yeah, I mean, you're right. The purpose, the whole purpose of this thing, is advertising. Of course. And as far as advertising goes, I mean, the awareness, it has got it. And the other great thing - I mean, everything you just said in your whole... Sorry, yeah, I went on a bit of a rant then. Well, you could have ranted, but in your rant there is: everything, no matter what, in today's world is polarising.

[49:38] Of course it is, right? And I think at the moment, what's really nice - when we talk, we often are polarising, we disagree. And what I'm seeing at the moment is that polarisation still exists, but you just talked about balance: there's more of a balanced conversation on everything happening at the moment. Yeah. Which is only a good thing. Yeah. Everyone can have - you can have an opinion one way or the other, you can voice it. But everyone's got an opinion. Yeah.

[50:08] Like it. Like it. Hey, quickly, can I hit you with a couple of running based things? Here we go. I want to play a little game with you. Yep. World records. Everybody knows Usain Bolt's world record, nine point five eight over a hundred metres. Do you know what pace he ran that at? It works out to one thirty-six per K. Yes, okay. Yeah, yeah. The marathon world record set by Sebastian Sawe in London this year, which was one fifty-nine thirty, that works out to be two fifty per kilometre average.

[50:43] Right. In between the hundred and the marathon world record, we have two hundred, four hundred, eight hundred, fifteen hundred, mile, five thousand, ten thousand, half marathon. Okay. I want you to try and guess: at what distance, or between which distances, do you see the greatest change in average speed? So if Usain Bolt's running his hundred metre world record at one thirty-six pace and Sebastian Sawe's running his marathon record at two fifty pace, there's only a one

[51:13] hundred and fourteen second gap between those paces, which is crazy to think. I'm going to take - I know where you're going, and I could be completely wrong - I'm going to take a stab at four to eight. I was going to say four to eight or two to four. Stop, stop right there. Four to eight. Why did you guess four to eight? It's just - it's systems. Explain that. So, pure anaerobic power speed into needing to use your aerobic system. The biggest drop off between all those world records within that bracket, a hundred through to marathon, is from the four to the eight.

[51:49] The four hundred world record set by Wayde van Niekerk of South Africa is at one forty-eight per K, and the eight hundred metres world record held by David Rudisha is at two-oh-six per K. I mean, you just think about how races are run and how the eight hundred is run. No one can just go - you can even try and even split an eight hundred to run a good time, but you effectively have to settle in, there's a strategy around the pace. And there is in the four hundred too, but that was my assumption, because I thought it also could have been between two to four.

[52:19] Because you think how hard you can run a two, but then think how lactic you go in a four. Well, the gap between two to four is a 12 second drop off, from Usain Bolt to Wayde van Niekerk. Interestingly, because I just don't understand systems like you do, I would have just gone, well, where's the biggest jump in distance? And that is the half to the full, obviously. It's only an eight second drop off there. The next biggest distance was between the 10K to the half marathon.

[52:50] That was a 15 second change. A 15 second change. It's similar around different systems, but like, probably more, you can run over threshold versus you probably have to come back towards your anaerobic threshold. Yeah. Cool. Okay, so from times, I want to go to money now. I've got one more guessing game for you. A couple of weeks ago on the pod we talked about the average outlay for a runner, in US dollars, and we had a lot of people come back and say, that's one race entry.

[53:21] I've got another guessing game for you, Courtney, because: Australia's most expensive ways to stay fit. I've got a list of Australia's most expensive ways to stay fit, from a dollar spent per year cost. This is an average thing, the cost of keeping fit, which is an analysis of AusPlay participation and spending data, plus a survey of one thousand Australians that was conducted this year. I'll tell you, running, according to this, is five hundred dollars a year - that is the annual cost.

[53:57] Which we've said, maybe a parkrunner. Yeah. Which everyone's going to say five hundred's very cheap if you're into running. Running comes in sixth on the list. Okay. I would like you to try and guess the five sports above it, or the five ways of keeping fit that are above it. Triathlon's going to be - does triathlon count as a sport? I'll say cycling. I'll give you cycling, and that comes in in fourth spot. So, gym entries? Gym is going to be one.

[54:27] Gym and fitness comes in third. Fitness, fitness, fitness. What else do you do to keep fit? Geez, I'm a bit stumped on this one, just straight off the top. The one in between cycling and running is football, comes in at fifth. Like, soccer football? Probably football, like probably soccer, probably AFL, probably NRL. I think it's probably just an umbrella of football. And I imagine that's got to do with registration fees to play the season and all the rest of it. Yeah, that one there skews it a bit, because I wouldn't have put that in there.

[55:01] As sports - I would consider them less sports, more exercise activities. And you'd question whether the first one keeps you that fit. Jesus, exercise activity. The second one is - golf, number one. Yeah, number one, at almost three times the annual cost of running. Yeah. And the number two... Golf's a bit more expensive than three times.

[55:32] Dominated by females? Netball. Pilates. Pilates. Expensive, Pilates. When you go to the gyms and then they're like, you've got to pay on top of it if you want to go to the Pilates courses? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, hey, so just to golf and Pilates operators out there: if you can find a way to make your price point a bit more on par... Hey, golf, I'm all for golf. If you're walking around a golf course at any age, it's a fair hike, golf.

[56:04] We've asserted that I don't play. Well no, but you run faster than I do, so I'm wondering how it might balance out. Maybe that's the sport that you and I will finally be even at. A question on that, because do you know anything about this speed golf? Do they shut down a course at some stage and say, you guys can all go and play speed golf? Because I'm assuming you can't just rock up at Royal Pines and go, mate, we're on, let's do a speed golf. I feel like if you turn up at Royal Pines and say I'm here for a speed golf round, they'd go, yeah great, nick off. No, yeah, yeah, they have tournaments and all the rest of that.

[56:36] Yeah. Okay, some triathlon news. Let's go. Salomon Ironman partnership, five years. Salomon just signed on as the official shoe partner of the Ironman World Series. So, following along the long list - I can't remember who - I'm even going back to the original days, I think a shoe brand called Newton. Do you remember Newton? I've talked about Newton before.

[57:06] Having the original shoe that kind of had the springy type lugs underneath it. I believe they were - it's following along the lines of, let's say, not the major running shoe brands at the time, jumping into Ironman as their first kind of jump up. So Hoka did this as well. And then pivoting, you know, after four or five years, hopefully they've got a foot in the door a bit more, a bit more relevance in running, and then they can attack the wider road running market.

[57:36] It has worked quite well in the past. Yeah, I mean, Hoka's a great example of where it seems to have worked. But it's an interesting one, Salomon - like, roots in the mountains, snow, skis, outdoors. And then, you know, I know they're trying to get their grips into road running, and here we go, they've kind of pivoted into trying. The president of Salomon - I'm just reading through a press release about it - his comment, his statement, was: athletes no longer define themselves by one sport.

[58:07] They run on the road, compete in the mountains, take on triathlons and continually seek new ways to challenge themselves. Yep. Endurance has become a lifestyle. For Salomon, joining forces with Ironman is a natural step and an opportunity to bring our performance expertise to one of the world's most committed endurance communities. Yeah, it does make sense. I can see the synergies. And I like the sneaky - if the ultimate goal is to, you know, have athletes on the dais at World Major Marathons wearing Salomons, I like the little side door entry. It's worked in the past.

[58:37] So yeah, I mean, triathletes out there, I'm assuming you're going to be seeing a lot more of Salomon. That's cool. But in Australia it'll be interesting to see what they do, because at the moment, if you looked at what their strategy is, they're really heavy into - in the running space, they focus on gravel running. So that cross section of, like, urban cafe wear. Yep. Very Melbourne centric: run on the Tan and then go to the cafe after, and on the road, and you can do everything in the one shoe.

[59:08] They've tried to really push into that niche. So I'm looking forward to seeing here in Australia whether they pivot a bit and we start seeing some Australian triathletes on the books. Keep an eye out for it. Quickly, can I give a quick shout out to something I tried for the first time? Yeah. My love of riding continues, by the way - my cycling, I'm genuinely really enjoying it. Although my Garmin died the other day while I was out, assuming because I was running too fast - riding too fast, sorry. I've been going into my local cafe in Tugun there, and I have seen this box of supplements staring at me forever.

[59:41] And then last week, before I went for my ride, I'm like, I'm going to try one of these. Okay. And you'll know them, because they caused a bit of a kerfuffle up at the Sunshine Coast a couple of weeks ago. Maple Movement. The maple syrup. I've heard of maple syrup gels. Yes, healthy gels or something. Have you used them before? I can't remember the event these guys were at, but they were causing a kerfuffle because they had a big banner up basically calling out one of the ingredients in

[60:11] other gels as causing gut problems, and they don't have it in their thing. Anyway, so it caused a bit of noise around this event and they got made to cover up the branding. Anyway - are you saying they've been sitting there for that long and then you're like, finally I'll grab one? I'd seen them, I'd seen them on socials, and I'd seen that my cafe stocked them. And I gave it a crack, and their maple and coffee flavour - yeah, good - it was bloody delicious. He liked it. He liked it.

[60:42] It was - well, your buddy does honey and I want to try some of that too. But it was another brand, I just can't think of the brand. I think it's actually a Coles brand. I'm not sure if it's their brand, but it was the first energy gel I saw really stocked properly in Coles at one stage. Winners? Winners. Yeah, see, and they were the same, they did honey, like a natural honey type thing. You know who's also in the midst of - for those podcasters out there that also listen to Hamish and Andy's podcast, Hamish is in the process of building Hames Hives, which is his

[61:15] honey company, okay, with the view to building - and this is obviously his gimmick, and I don't know how serious it is, but this is what he's saying - he's planning on having certain hives at the highest possible altitude for honey, for bees to survive, and the honey from those hives will be used in performance honey sachets. Okay, because they're like more oxygenated. The best bees. They're the toughest bees. But that's his plan. So Buddy's about to get some competition in the honey from Hamish Blake.

[61:45] But yeah, I just wanted to say, the Maple Movement, I think these might become a part of my setup. I enjoyed it, it was good - the coffee and the maple. Well, it was funny, because I had that and I did a little video while I was out there riding it, and Adzy from last week's episode just messaged me and goes, or you could just take a Snickers bar. So I was like... And then I had someone else message me and go, just put salt and a teaspoon of sugar in your water bottle and you'll swear you're... And I'm like, okay.

[62:15] I mean, if you want to go to the very cheapest... Everyone's got their opinions on this stuff. It's just about finding what you like, but yeah. Yeah, find what you like. So, Ironman - let's say, because this is a running thing. First, I want to say Ironman 70.3 World Champs in Nice over the weekend, along with the athletics as another thing. I must have been in front of the box on the weekend, because I was resting up - I was resting up, I was in front of the TV on Saturday.

[62:47] Taylor Knibb. Oh, she's ridiculous. Just, first of all, for the women's race, just next level. I mean, obviously when you're an Olympic cyclist and triathlete together, and when it's a course like that - but just dominant. Just dominant. When you hear the numbers - and because I'm not a cyclist like you are - when you hear that she averaged three hundred and three watts for about thirty minutes of that ride, it's very impressive.

[63:17] And I don't know her weight, because that's the important thing. But just knowing some of the numbers I would do in, like, Noosa or a half Ironman, that's good, that's super impressive. Yeah. And what about Hayden? Yeah, like, hats off. And I feel - I mean, he's just walking around, he's won, he's got there, and he was the best swim-bike-runner. He won the triathlon, right? Yeah. But KB, for some reason - I mean, I know, not for some reason.

[63:51] The back end of Kristian Blummenfelt's runs - we're talking about... So let's get this really clear: Hayden won the race. Yes, he won the triathlon. It's a triathlon, it ain't a run. It doesn't matter how fast you run in the end, if you don't win, you didn't get there. That's right. However, it is mind boggling to me, coming, you know, a decade on, what those guys are now doing in triathlons. Like, you talk about in running and the marathon, the generational shift of how quickly they're moving, going under two hours in the marathon and everything else.

[64:28] Like, this is happening in triathlon as well. The times obviously aren't as impressive when you're running off a bike, but this is ridiculous. The thing I like is triathlon cops a lot of flak - you talk about official chip times, triathlon's nearly the opposite to running. Throw the official chip time out; your Strava time half the time is probably a better guide. I'm not saying it's right, but your Strava time is probably a better guide sometimes to what you actually run in a triathlon than the triathlon, because triathlon

[64:58] courses are notoriously just, we'll just make up shit as we go. Yeah. Even at the world level. Yeah. I'm just having a bit of a look around, because for the people wondering what exactly Kristian's run was: off the back of this 1.9K swim and a ninety kilometre ride, so he's already been out - by the time he gets to the run, he's been out, not redlining, but probably for almost three hours - he then goes out and runs a 1:05:12 21K half marathon.

[65:31] But it's the back end that's - like, when and if you're watching it live. I mean, the one thing with Kristian is, someone said to me the other day, like, he's a big - I'll say it - they said, yeah, but he's amazing, he's a big ugly runner. And I'm like, no. No, no, no, he ain't an ugly runner. If you look at him from the side, over the last few years, his efficiency - he's a guy who has won everything: Olympic gold, Ironman, 70.3, everything.

[66:02] He has improved his run. Like, if you look at his running style over the past two years, this is a guy who's already the world's best and is making improvements year on year. Like, his running efficiency from the side at the moment, it's beautiful. It looks amazing. Do you want to know why he looks inefficient and ugly, why people describe him like that? Okay. And it's the same thing I discovered - he's wearing white. It's the same thing I discovered in the swim run on the weekend.

[66:32] White is not flattering on people. Sports brands, stop making your gear in white. So he is one of the best - one of the best options looks bad in it. A little bit off topic: you know when you see crews riding around the Goldie? Yep. It's like older fellas or whatever, and they're in white. Is it a case of - I see it like they just want to be safe, they just want to be seen. Are you sure? Yeah. Or do you think they see an elite cyclist in white and go, they look good, I look like

[67:04] the same reason people buy white cars - statistically they're the safest. I disagree, Liam. I don't think so. I don't think it's going to do with safety. It's just, white's a trend and everyone wants to be on the trend. Hey, so yeah, I mean, just the way he closed out at the back of that. I wonder - no one's mentioned this, and I'm out of the loop a little bit here, so I could be talking completely through my ass - the bike course in Nice, the way they ride it, obviously there's a big climb in it, it's very hilly.

[67:34] So normally when you'd do a ride like that, you obviously pick a power, the average power, to get to the top of the climb. Then there's a large downhill. So actually, as much as it's a hilly course uphill, you actually get great recovery downhill. So you see a hard bike course and think, well, it's even better, the runs, because they've run so fast off this hard bike - without actually seeing the power bands, and not looking too much into it, I wonder how much the actual recovery coming off the climb helps with the run.

[68:06] So effectively, yes, they are putting the power through at the beginning of the bike, and at certain parts it's probably harder than a flat ride. But you also have this massive descent where you decrease your, you know, decrease your heart rate, you're off your legs - obviously you're pedalling some parts of it, but in general it's a very different energy output to what you'd find normally. I think that actually contributes to how fast you're able to run in this. I tried to do a 5K run off the bike the other day. Got out to the end of our street and said, no, my legs felt so... If you haven't trained it, it's awful.

[68:37] Hey, Trent sent us through, because the runners there - what shoes are looking like in triathlon at the moment. So the stars. Trent, Trent from Gold Coast Physio. Yeah, so this is what it looked like on the podium, and I think, again, I mean, obviously sponsorship. So Hayden was in a pair of Metaspeed, so ASICS. The next three, so Kristian, Jelle and Gustav. Gustav? Gus, Gustav. All in On. Interesting.

[69:08] On Cloudboom Strike 2s. Two of them wearing the ones with, you know, the aerodynamic ones. No, no. Talk about Salomon: number six, Casper Stornes, obviously one of the new Salomon triathlete athletes in there. But then you've got - then after the podium, you've then got Puma. What were the women? I haven't got them in here. So

[69:40] hilarious, by the way, going back to the Hyrox poo, that it was the joke that everybody raced to make, that she was a Puma athlete. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I don't have the - completely missed my amazing poo joke, but that's okay. Yeah, there you go. Everyone made that joke today - that was not your radio station, which I saw. How are you doing? Yeah, yeah. I hear enough.

[70:10] I mean, you're not tuned in to me every morning? No, I'll be honest. I saw Lutzi on social media and he was giving it a spray this morning, or whatever it was. So he called it some... See, even that wording, giving it a spray - it's a very risky area to play in. Very good. Hey, it's been great to have you back. It's been great to have you back. It's great. I love that we're both back out doing some running. I am examining where I'm at, because there's a couple of things coming up that I might just jump into pre-Noosa.

[70:44] We've got Noosa on the cards, obviously. You've got Melbourne Marathon coming up in the next month. But there's a couple of trails that I'm thinking about jumping in. Was this the one that Mads sent to you? The Numinbah trail race - that's the weekend after Noosa. Yeah, maybe. But there's also the Wild Earth Blackall trail trip. I worked out I possibly could have run this at one stage, but I didn't work it out. I got a message from friend of the pod Mick Kelly who said, mate, do you want to come run Blackall 50 with me? And I sat down before we pressed record and said, hey Courtney, what's Blackall like?

[71:17] And you said, no idea. Two minutes later: actually, I ran it one year. Cool. Yeah - you'll have to ask Ando about that one. I'm pretty sure that was what we ran. We didn't run the hundred K or none of that tough stuff, we just went... I got a message from Ed, my miler partner in crime, who everyone would have heard me talk about. The miler messaged me the other day saying, so are you going to go back and do the hundred K race next year at UTA? Just on, too soon. Yeah. Just on Blackall - this is controversial, but I'm going to say it.

[71:50] So I'm pretty sure Blackall's the one up around Montville and up the back of the Sunshine Coast. The one thing the trail races up in Noosa, Sunshine Coast and all that area miss over the Gold Coast, yeah, is we have a lot better rainforest and mountains to run across. No, no - I'm not saying it's not great events up there, sure - limited, limited rainforest single trail. Yeah, but you're obsessed with rainforest single trail.

[72:21] You like - I do all right. We've been through this every time we go out in the ranges: I feel comfortable on the big wide road. That would have worked out - that's why you always head up to the Sunshine Coast to do your Noosa Ultra. Maybe I'll really like Blackall, because it's nice and wide for me. Not all of us like to be challenged every step. It's the seventeenth of October, I think, is that weekend. A couple of weeks. Two weeks from - yeah. Oh look, I'm not winning Noosa.

[72:51] I'm not winning Noosa. All right, I'm going to put that out there, declare it now: I'm not going to win Noosa. But I am feeling more confident about my swimming than I ever have, and I'm trying to put some time in, so who knows, maybe I will win Noosa. Who's the defending champ? That's right, Matt Hauser. You could. No. I was going to say, there's always that chance of going up a weight - no, you've offended me now. I know, I know it didn't look good in that white rashie, but I blame Swim Run for that. I'm certainly not going to be competing as a Clydesdale.

[73:22] If I have to, at my height - if I ever compete as a Clydesdale at Noosa, it's the end of the podcast. I can't come back on here. And that's not me having a go at the Clydesdales, because they are big, and the Athenas, they are big boys and big women who deserve to compete. I am five foot nothing. If I get to a hundred kilos you need to sit me down and have a word. I'm talking about the fakey one that, jeez, starts at ninety. That one might be a bit cheap.

[73:52] We'll see you next week. Next week.