Claude AI x Strava Thinks Courtney Is Cooked | EP 90

[00:00] In the beginning, episode 89, we're back — Courtney, countdown, it's three weeks today. Three weeks to Gold Coast. This is your last weekend for your hard hit-outs, as per the advice of the great Benita Willis of Lace Up Running, one of the greatest ever endurance athletes this country has produced — no later than this weekend, unless you want your body still recovering from a hard session on race day. Well, Liam, I'm in a bit of a predicament. What's wrong? I need one more session and I don't think I'm going to have

[00:31] time. What session do you need? I need to do one more longer rep in the super shoe — one more hard hit-out. Can't do it tomorrow, I ran long yesterday. Right, you don't want to stack them up that close. No, and then I'm travelling — I'm in Canberra Wednesday, Thursday, and I saw the temperature there was minus two this morning.

[01:01] That'll make the carbon plate spring nicely. Probably not great running for a Queenslander, but I'm sure it'll be fine once I get into it. And then I'm up at Ironman Cairns

[01:31] this weekend for the whole weekend, doing some stuff with Tourism Queensland, so I don't know when I'm going to get to run — I'm either in the freezing cold or the stinking heat. So I think I'm going to have to take a bit of a down week.

[02:02] That's OK. Well, I guess that becomes a question for Benita — what's more important, getting in that extra long hit-out or tapering off sharper? Look, with three weeks to go I'm confident one more won't hurt. We covered this in Wednesday's Gold Coast Marathon Series episode with Southern Cross University, something a bit different — next week we'll be inside the final three weeks,

[02:33] so we'll really drill down into that. But can I just check how you're feeling? I'm feeling all right. Great, amazing. I'll say this, because our listeners always give great feedback — how nice is it, after having this for the last three months on the miler,

[03:05] how nice is it when people reach out and talk to you about the races you've prepared for, give suggestions around pacing and everything under the sun? It's brilliant. So now I've just got to wade through all the advice and land on what I do. But talking with Benita last time about pacing, I did have some pretty hard feedback around, hey, you're going to go quicker in the race than this session suggests. So this was the session we were talking about — the two-hour run with the twenty-minute effort. I said I think I ran the twenty-

[03:37] minute effort in 3:47s, and Andy got back to me on that particular session — he said don't stress too much, when he does it with his group he'd be running 3:10s, but then when he races he pulls about ten seconds off that. So he's saying, you're not in a race environment here, and that gave me a bit of confidence from the man himself who gave us the session. That's the first thing. The second thing is I then went out and did a bit more — I didn't do exactly what he said, I didn't do what Benita said either,

[04:07] I found the middle ground, classic Courtney. I did a session last Thursday where I went 5K jogging or running aerobically into 5K at marathon-type pace — well, effort, let's say effort — and I put the super shoes on for the first time. This is the Nike Alphaflys — I did the review a couple of weeks back — and I put the Alphaflys on for the first time, ran the first K up along the spit, and I felt like Donald Duck.

[04:37] Oh really? I was like, it just felt so different, over the front — it felt fast, don't get me wrong, but it just didn't feel quite right yet. Then after that first K I didn't even notice I was wearing a different pair of shoes. And I've got some feedback on them — I feel like the shoe comes to you, you don't have to be over the top bouncy or anything, you can actually take the ground hit a little harder and they give it back to you.

[05:07] But within that session I suddenly started cranking out sub-3:30 pace. So now we're getting a good guide as to where we're falling — between that 3:33 and 3:50, and we'll narrow it down. All that said, and I want to cover this properly next week — I've got some key takeaways, because I'm watching everyone else training for their marathon too, and I think we all

[05:38] think about our pace too much. Like Andy said, sometimes just run to how you feel — you'll work the pace out if you understand how you feel. But if you're always dictated by 'I've got to hit this, I've got to hit that,' it takes a lot of the fun out of it. I love that — takes a lot of the fun out, but we'll get into that properly on Wednesday's episode, I'll come with some observations, some takeaways —

[06:10] let's get into that then. I'm just making a note — I think there's something for the podcast down the line in this 'running to feel' idea, we've got to lean into that a bit more. Anyway, more marathon stuff to come next Wednesday on the ASICS Gold Coast Marathon Series as we continue the countdown to that fantastic event. Let's get into the weekend episode — you just mentioned Gold Coast, and

[06:40] the Ironman — sorry, Cairns Ironman, you're heading up there. I've got a bit of audio, because right now, before we play this, I want to remind people I'm still not up to running. I've got physio appointments during the week, my knee's still recovering — I'm four weeks off now since the miler. By the time people hear this, the next thing on my calendar is Noosa Triathlon as far as events

[07:10] I'm registered for, so I'm having to get back in the pool now — I haven't swum since last year's Noosa Triathlon. I found this on Instagram the other day, and it couldn't sum up better — aside from the fact that I'm not a Kiwi, this is exactly how I feel about swimming. Swimming is hard, do you know why? Because of all the things you've got to try and think about while you're swimming — high elbow, fingertips pointed down, fully extend, don't let your hand come in

[07:42] front of your face, keep it streamlined in front of your shoulders, rotate but don't rotate too much on your catch and pull, pull the water behind you, don't push it down, pull past your hip, tuck your tailbone so your hips don't sink, kick from your hips not your knees, point your toes but keep your ankles relaxed, breathe out through your nose, and when you turn to breathe keep one goggle in the water, don't look up, look down — all these things you've got to try to remember just to be

[08:12] half-decent on a good day. I'll be lucky to nail two or three of those. You've got to respect swimmers, because swimming is hard work — that's why us mortals just do bombs off the edge. That's why I love running, because running is just go.

[08:44] He sounds like he's been watching way too many Instagram reels — there's a lot in that. Sucks. Swimming is hard, so bad at it, it's so technical — as opposed to running, where influencers and podcasts will give you advice like slow down a bit, do some run-jogging, whatever it might be. But if you ask someone for advice on getting better at swimming — good luck, swimming's hard. Even someone who's swum their whole life,

[09:16] when you go back to swim for the first time, you've got the feel and the technique down, but you swim 100 metres hard and you're gassed. If you're not using those muscles for anything else, you completely lose all conditioning in your arms. But if you're listening and wondering about swimming, just concentrate on one or two things. Which ones though? Well, one — keep your head down. If

[09:47] you're wondering how to swim, Courtney, give me two things. One is for open water — this is the trap for pool swimmers, as soon as anyone who's never swum in open water gets out there, they want to look up every five seconds to see where they're going, and all that does is put your head up and you swim through the water on an angle. Number one, keep your head down. Second — I don't know, pick anything, that's OK. If keeping your head down is half the battle, that's great,

[10:18] that's half the battle. The rest is you've got to watch someone and then maybe give a tip on the rest. Well, I'll get you to come and watch me swim sometime — I don't claim to be a running coach and I definitely don't claim to be a swim coach. All right, let's move on. Nike and Adidas — we've been waiting for this. They came, the battle — did either of them conquer? Did you watch it? I sent it to you, you'd better watch it. Are we going to play any of it for anybody? It's not worth playing, it's

[10:53] visual, right — you really can't appreciate it if you haven't seen it. It's called 'Rip the Script,' the Nike FIFA World Cup ad for this year — we said Adidas had beaten them to the punch with Timothy Chalamet and that narrative street-football story, which we loved. I thought that was one of the best advertising stories, or short films, I'd seen. What did you think? I'll give you my two cents after —

[11:25] I get what they're doing with Rip the Script, taking it through the production sets and bringing it through movie scenes, but ultimately they've leant on star power, using — I'm going to pronounce his name wrong — the Brazilian player everyone knows, not Neymar,

[11:56] he plays for Barcelona, he's their best player, he's like nineteen — anyway, Kylian Mbappé's obviously in there, Lamine Yamal's in there as well. I think it's comparing two very different approaches — you've got the same idea of bringing out star power across sports, like LeBron. They've leant on Ronaldo, LeBron — obviously it didn't cut through

[12:29] for me the way the Adidas one did. If it's one v one, if it's a zero-sum game, Adidas wins that battle, because I think the use of Timothy Chalamet was so smart — and we compared it to that old Nike ad on the boat years ago, the street football game. I think Adidas tapped into it — and obviously they had Messi. But the Nike one felt a bit

[13:01] predictable. Look, LeBron's in it, fantastic, but unless I'm missing something — Jordan's not there? I would've tried to find a way to bring Jordan into it. It just left me a bit lukewarm. What do you think? I think they're two very different approaches, and on-brand for both — I watched the Adidas one and it made me feel something,

[13:31] but it made me feel something for their culture and their brand in a nostalgic way. I never walked away from it feeling like I wanted to buy their shoes for performance. Then I watched the Nike one, and I walked away thinking, if I had to buy a shoe —

[14:01] we're talking football boots here, but let's think of it in the running sense — if I had to choose, I'm buying the Nike, on performance. With the Adidas one, I bought into their nostalgic brand culture. With the Nike one, I bought into 'if I'm going to score a goal' — if I'm a kid watching that, I want to win, I'm going to

[14:31] buy that. And if I'm a kid who wants to hang out at the skate park, I'll buy the Adidas one. I think they achieved two very different outcomes. That's a good comparison. Do you know what's interesting? They launched those videos about a month apart —

[15:07] Adidas launched theirs about a month ago and it's on 6.6 million views on YouTube — that's on their channel. Nike's has only been up six hours and is already at forty-five million, I think — actually it's up to sixty-three million now.

[15:40] And they did that in the first two days, so you instantly get a sense of the scale both these brands are operating at — both global brands, huge audiences, huge followings. But Nike's on a different level from a reach perspective, just on base audience. It's a long-winded story, but the outcome is we've got a lot of the best

[16:10] performance players in both, and Adidas do too, they just presented it differently, and I think it landed very differently. I don't know that either was better or worse, but I just walked away going, that Nike one — everything about it was about performance. Did it need Kim Kardashian? No. Did it need Travis Scott? No. Did it need LeBron? Yes. But what all of those did give it was

[16:40] that sixty-five million views. Yeah, all those people being willing to share it. Look, again, I still think, as a — it's amazing both brands come out and spend that much, it just shows you the importance of soccer, the biggest sport in the world. And it's interesting, at the time people are listening to this, it's the weekend of the World Cup — Australia are playing their first group match,

[17:10] against Turkey — that's our first group match, then we've got the USA, and I've forgotten the third team we're drawn with. I picked up a Coke Zero can yesterday and it was doing a World Cup design — I didn't realise Paraguay was the third team, my apologies. So New Zealand — are they in the World Cup too? Have you heard the story about Tim Paine? Yes, have you come across this? Yes,

[17:41] let's share this story — for those who don't know, there was an Argentinian content creator who tried to find the most unknown player going into this World Cup, co-hosted by Canada, the USA and Mexico. Of all the teams that qualified, he wanted to find the most unknown or underrated player, and he wasn't judging on performance at all.

[18:11] Performance was irrelevant — I think the thinking was, how do you judge quality, when anyone going to the World Cup is by definition a world-class footballer? So he wasn't looking for underrated, he was looking for the genuinely most unknown player — I thought it'd be

[18:43] easier to find, but he actually went looking for the most unfollowed player. He went through every single team at the World Cup and every profile, searching for the most unfollowed player at that time — and he landed on Tim Paine, and this fellow had only 5,000 followers.

[19:13] For context, that's far less than you have, and a little more than I have right now. It's completely changed Tim Paine's life — he's now a bona fide influencer who could charge a fortune for posts and collabs. Tim Paine's thirty-two years old,

[19:46] probably closer to the end of his career than the beginning. He plays for Wellington Phoenix in the A-League, and I don't have the exact stats, but I'd argue he's probably one of the most followed, if not the most

[20:17] followed, footballer in the A-League now. Oh mate, what a story — it's amazing, and I like that they're authentic follows, there's a purpose to it, a mission, football at its core. Now there's going to be a celebration of it over the next month, and what I really like about it is that there's an undercurrent — because social media, most of the time, let's face it, is a

[20:48] cesspit, it's a swamp, it can be a real mess — but there are great corners of it, and this is one of them. But speaking of stars, Liam, I was flicking through the national news this week and saw a headline: 'Radio star's genius idea for a hosting role,' and I thought, that looks like Liam. Of course, it was a debate — genius, I thought.

[21:21] Genius — I see your Liam schemes have gone beyond me. You're not just sharing them with me any more, are you, Liam? If anyone can help me monetise a business out of these half-thought-out ideas — well, the first thing is you don't tell everyone about them. But an Aussie radio host has come up with a genius idea to solve the biggest mystery in TV: who's hosting the Logies? Liam's in national

[21:56] news this week across all the other radio stations — this was on news.com, the Sydney Morning Herald, all of it. I'll let you explain, give us the pitch. I'll give you the pitch so nobody has to go find the article. Here's the pitch — Sam Pang has hosted the last three Logies, and if you don't know who Sam Pang is, he's all across The Front Bar, he's on the ABC and he's got a new scripted comedy coming out about a Tassie footy

[22:26] team startup, a bit of an in-real-life type thing. He's not hosting again this year. Historically you've had the likes of Bert Newton, Daryl Somers — I don't think Larry Emdur has, I'm forgetting who else has hosted. Anyway, traditionally there's been a single host, and the big question leading into these Logies is who's going to host them. I don't have the answer, but the idea I had, and I still think it rings true — the Logies is meant to be channel-agnostic, it's not.

[22:56] I think the host network is Channel Seven this year, might be Nine, I'm not actually sure — but it's meant to celebrate all the stations, Seven, Ten, Nine, ABC, everyone. So my idea was, and this is where the US TV awards do it well, their production value's obviously a lot higher — my idea was that the Logies broadcast, in the room itself, should begin with a recorded video: Sam Pang standing there as the former host with a single rose, Bachelor-style.

[23:27] And then Osher Günsberg walks in — Osher, who does his serious rose-ceremony bit better than anyone, one of the great pieces of television — 'Sam only has one rose to give.' If you don't know it, it's fantastic television — this is podcasting, we can't pause that long for effect, but Sam's standing there with one rose, Osher walks in, does his serious bit, and instead of all the

[24:00] single women, it's all the possible hosts — Hamish and Andy, Anne Edmunds, Kitty Flanagan, Karl Stefanovic, Sandra Sully, take your pick, a cluster from all the networks, all standing there dolled up. You let Sam have some fun taking the piss out of a bunch of people who definitely won't get the gig — what are they even doing there? And then it cuts to black, and

[24:31] the big voiceover in the room and on your screen says, please welcome to the stage the host of the 2026 Logies, and whoever it is comes out in the clothes they were wearing in the video. So did they like your idea? Did who like it? It's open to the public — most of the comments were saying the Logies are irrelevant, which I disagree with, we should care more about the

[25:01] Logies, I can see. But you've got — for your work, it's 92.5 Triple M, I can see Lisa and Spida photos up next to Osher. Mate, it's — I mean, ideas man, you didn't put a suit on for it though, did you? I was looking at it — it was a bit of a

[25:31] morning, they said we're going to write this up, can you send some photos, and I was like, oh, I've been up since 3am. That's all, mate, I always love seeing you out there in the national news. It's nice to know the Google alert for my name's still working for you. No, maybe it's hitting my — I think they probably algorithm-feed you the news off news.com every so often. But keeping on you, Liam,

[26:02] and staying on the celebration — oh, here we go. Brett Donaghy — sorry, Donaghy, keep going. I wouldn't be giving — look, what's he done? Look at that, is that for you, a little present? Are you kidding me? You'll have to explain that for us. It's

[26:33] good, oh my gosh, thanks Brett, this is amazing — Liam hadn't seen this by the way, I kept it hidden. Oh my gosh, keep it secret for me — OK, I'll hold it up, but it's a Yeti-style coffee container, a thermal cup, which is the perfect size — I got one of these from the Suns the other day and it's too big, but this one's perfect, but the — come on, get the

[27:04] graphic on it, sorry, Courtney. The graphic on it — I'll hold it up to the camera — says 'Miler 2026, no time to sleep,' but the photo is from that shot when I was 100Ks into the miler and I was at my absolute lowest, looking all sorts. This is amazing, Brett, I can't wait to use this, that's incredible, that's my favourite thing. Brett, you know Brett — Liam's been known to spill his

[27:34] coffee, and gosh, replacing the radio off — well I did take the radio off, everyone, and you could get away with that one. So awesome, Brett — I've got two kids and I'll be honest with you, that's my third-favourite thing. I want to chip it in early, that's great, if I can. Let's get it in shot, get it, folks — thank you, Brett, thank you, thank you. That's so awesome, I love it, I can't wait to have a coffee out of it later today. Alright, let's get into a chat, let's go. I don't know if you've seen

[28:04] what's happened just in the last week, but Strava and Claude — I asked Andy the other day, does he use AI? Strava and Claude have finally opened it up so, in my layman's terms, Claude can go in the back end and look at all of your Strava data. They've

[28:35] launched a Model Context Protocol — to take it out of my layman's terms — the MCP lets subscribers query their own Strava data through Claude and get in-depth insights about their training. This intrigued me, so I went and did it — I've got the whole bank of data, so I put it in. For

[29:07] those who don't know what Claude is, it's an AI tool. This was done through Claude Code. I put it in, let it go through — it took its time to look through — I've had Strava data since 2012, so we're talking fourteen years' worth. And I've used it pretty consistently

[29:38] the whole time. The great thing with this is, back when I used to race professionally, I kept a lot of my stuff private, I didn't want people knowing what I was doing — different to today, when everyone throws everything out there, there are no secrets. We had secrets, we wanted to beat each other. So going back there — the first thing it did, it went through everything, and this surprised me, I just let it go. I wanted to know — here's the input I put in:

[30:10] with the full history and context, look up the last six to eight weeks of training I've been doing in the build-up to the Gold Coast Marathon, noting that I'm purposely running every second day and getting on the Swift bike in between, to avoid overloading anything and to manage old injuries. The goal is to get through the marathon conservatively, then look at running another one, possibly in another country, faster later in the year. Using the data from the last six to eight weeks, what do you think my current marathon pace for

[30:42] Gold Coast is — and given my rate of improvement, what would it be in four weeks? So before it actually pulled that out, I watched it go through everything, and the first thing it produced was an athlete profile from my Strava alone. It started pulling out things like my professional roles — long-term Salomon athlete, Red Bull Australia athlete, ambassador,

[31:12] organiser of hosting trail events. I'm like, what — where did it even get all this? It gave my sports history, going back — it worked out that from 2016 to 2019 I was still a professional triathlete, and beyond that, more trail running and adventure racing, primary disciplines with some mountain biking and road cycling throughout. Then the next thing that blew me away — can I get into it?

[31:45] Yes. Injury history — from what I'd been writing in the training programmes, purely from that, it wrote a headline: recurring right calf and ankle injury pattern across 2023 to 2026, and every major training disruption traces back to it. The dominant recurring injury is the right calf, downstream of a right ankle and foot injury, with documented episodes.

[32:15] It listed May 2023 — Hamilton hilly half, blew the calf again, treadmill block in 2023 to get it back, then a motorbike crash in July 2024 — motorbike crash, right knee, right calf, direct trauma. This is like — I mean, we're not surprised any more at what AI can pull out. Then it went on to suggest how I should approach the future to minimise it, starting to do a bit of triage.

[32:47] Now, all of this I was just ticking off — it was on the money. Everything it used, from a data perspective, was on the money. Where I ran into problems was what I actually asked it to do — that part was rubbish. It predicted I'm in a marathon — sorry, let me get to where I was —

[33:19] it predicted, based roughly on my LT1, which is generally conservative, that I could run a 3:14 to 3:16 marathon. My well-managed race, according to Claude, would be 3:08 to 3:12, and if I was ambitious, I could go 3:04 to 3:07.

[33:52] Benny, Tate Herbst who's a trail runner, Lindsay Laurie — you give it info, you give it access, it can pull a lot out. And I'm not going down this rabbit hole, but I don't like that it knows everything about you — that running-partner detail set off alarm bells for me. Weirdly, I jumped —

[34:22] have you seen the film Minority Report? Yeah — I jumped to that, a world where suddenly a computer's telling us what we're going to do in a week's time, and then the police turn up and arrest you because they know, based on your patterns, that you're going to commit a crime. We know for a fact you go running with Ricky and Dave and Flano, and we know all those blokes are away, and we know you

[34:54] get bored and can't control yourself, and next thing you know, you're in jail. If you look at this, I mean, it's just pulling the data, but it pulls it in a way where — my key training locations, it can tell you, Nerang, the spit, Pizzey Park, Malabar Headland — and then my annual content trips, Kings Canyon, Uluru — it's getting into dangerous

[35:24] territory. And on the other side of it, there's a part of me that thinks, well, if it starts working with your other devices and starts serving you things happening in those areas at those times, telling you not to go there because of weather or traffic accidents, that's the other side of the coin. But do we need that as well? On the point of anyone listening who uses Strava — one thing I'd highly,

[35:54] highly, highly suggest is going into your location services and putting a ring-fence around your residence. Because with people I know well, and I know how Strava works, this information's public, people are watching. Look, we talked about it a lot last year when

[36:26] Strava partnered with Runna — I think Strava, as a publicly listed company, I don't know if they've actually launched the IPO yet, but that was going on towards the end of last year. I still think Strava's a fantastic platform, they need to elevate, they need to find ways to keep moving forward, improve the user experience. I wonder if this is actually good for running, because

[36:56] running's great at the moment — running's never been more popular, the performances we're seeing at the elite level, the participation at the amateur level, the number of races selling out across the world. Running's great — is AI going to make running better? Not off the back of that, at the

[37:26] moment. What do they say, maybe you need better prompts? Maybe you need better prompts. Can we talk about a really

[37:57] interesting post you put up from Kiwi ultra runner Ruth Croft? Yes, I love that this conversation's being had, because, yeah, I found it — as a dad with a nine-year-old and a five-year-old, my nine-year-old's really getting into cross country, and I thought this was a really interesting conversation, having just participated in the UTA miler. I won't read it word for word — summarise it for anyone who doesn't know Ruth.

[38:27] Ruth will literally win any of the major ultras around the globe, she's in the top handful of best ultra runners on the planet. But basically, Ruth's said that before she left New Zealand a few weeks ago, she'd had more and more conversations about teenagers competing in ultra and endurance events. A lot of the messaging around ultra running, as she points out, is that it's about suffering, pushing yourself

[38:59] through pain and constantly testing your limits — and yet there's pride in that, it's a mindset that's often praised. She's not saying teenagers shouldn't challenge themselves, and she's not trying to gatekeep endurance sport, but is it the right thing to be putting young athletes, whose bodies are still developing and still growing, still going through biological changes, into environments

[39:29] where they're suffering and in pain, punished — not by any controlling hand, but just by the nature of the distance required to complete these things. Yeah, I think that's one conversation, but then she goes further into adolescence — growth plates, hormones, all the rest of it, so it's probably a larger

[40:01] question, one we've had, and I get asked this all the time, even in the last few weeks because it's cross-country and track-and-field season for kids right now — how much is too much for a young kid running? Because unlike swimming, which we talked about earlier, that's not a gravity sport — of course you can overuse joints and overtrain in anything, but running is unique in the sense that you're getting the same

[40:32] stress fractures and range of issues we get as adults. I've got my own set of problems, but it's the same thing — what is too much for a kid to be running? Because the reality is, generally, even as a kid, if you train more than the other kid, all things being equal, you'll outdo them in an endurance sport, that's just the reality. So as a kid you can go and do

[41:04] more, and to a degree that will help you do better — the only thing that changes it is if someone's naturally talented, or trains in another sport and has that engine. But for the purpose of this, say you do more — we know more running generally equals better endurance, if it's the right

[41:38] running. But what's too much for a growing kid? Here's my question for our listeners — we've got a lot of experts out there in sports science and a whole range of things, but do we have anyone with the expertise on that specific age group, who can tell us what's optimal? It's a tricky one, and I'm not an expert in any of this, but I tend to come back to what I think about e-bikes, and what I think about social media — same thing here.

[42:08] There'll be experts who can give physiological explanations and instructions, but for parents — and this is just my opinion with my own kids — you've got to make the decision for your own child. No one's going to know your child better than you, not even a coach — there are two sides to it, because a coach will understand running, or whatever the sport is, better than you, but I'll give you a real-life

[42:38] example with my daughter. She's nine years old and has more energy than anyone I know — a regular week for her is swimming Monday night, touch training and soccer training and dance training Tuesday, Wednesday off, dance and soccer Thursday, a touch game Friday night, a soccer game Saturday morning, and

[43:08] surfing Sunday morning. I think there are a lot of kids on the Gold Coast in exactly that situation. Now, if Quinn, my daughter, starts getting tired, I'll pull something back — but she's fine at that load level, her energy's still there to run around the front yard most weekends, play with her brother non-stop, stay up later than I do and get up earlier than I do. She's right. But if a coach

[43:41] came along and said, Quinn's got a bit of talent here, we're going to start her running, I'd say great — but if they started pushing her towards, say, an ultra, and I started seeing my daughter not herself, I'm making a call. That's where, ultimately, I think it all comes down to the parent. And again, I take Ruth's point about wanting these kids happy and running for years down the line,

[44:12] but ultimately, in the moment, I think it's on the parent to understand who their kid is, what's normal for their kid, and whether what they're embarking on is taking them away from that normal. Does that make sense? No, no, it makes sense, and it's actually a great point — that's what a good coach does too, looks for the signs when someone walks into training, notices, hey, you look tired today, what's wrong, and adjusts on the go.

[44:42] You're just saying as a parent, you know your kid's signs and cues best, and you can make those calls. I can't help but push it to the extreme — not talking about multiple sports adding up, because I think that's another conversation, right, about when kids should specialise if they want to pursue a certain sport. For me, and I don't have the answer to this,

[45:12] I have the traditional answer — we've generally gone about it conservatively, that with running being a gravity sport, you should err on the side of caution while you're still growing and young, until you're fully developed and can handle it. Now that's a real traditionalist view, and I don't know how much science backs it

[45:44] up, but that's just how we went about it. I think the big question now, with all the science and support around us, is whether there's someone who can give a better indication of, OK, at this age or this stage of development, these are the guidelines for what we believe are the right distances to be running. Triathlon's a good example — I remember

[46:14] Noosa Triathlon has always had an age limit on how young you could be to do the individual event — so there were times I wanted to race the Olympic distance at Noosa and just couldn't, because society, or the sport in general, had an agreement across endurance sports that for the betterment of individuals,

[46:46] at a certain age you shouldn't go up to certain distances. That's largely gone out the door now — there's still an age limit at Noosa specifically, but it's a lot more open to interpretation now what age people go off and do things. Just for fun — I know, Courtney, we've been pretty earnest responding to Ruth's post — this is a fun next step. It's funny, given the

[47:16] conversation we've just had about Claude and Strava working together — I'm now using ChatGPT for something. The question I asked was, what are the possible human evolutions based on the current running boom, given running's more popular than it's ever been — if this translates to runners hooking up with runners, which they're doing a lot more, and breeding, what happens to people? Here's what it gave me — people become

[47:48] skinnier, lighter frames, less muscle bulk in the upper body, leaner physiques that use less energy over long distances, longer lower legs — humans are already built for endurance, and longer legs relative to body size would make running more efficient, more energy efficient, better heat management, more efficient sweating, greater blood flow to the skin, possibly less body hair, stronger feet, wider feet and more resilient arches, more injury-resistant tendons,

[48:22] Achilles tendons and connective tissue capable of handling higher mileage, improved aerobic systems, a larger heart, greater lung capacity, better oxygen transport. So what I hear is, off the back of the run-club boom, we're going to end up with a lot of hunter-gatherers — made to go and collect our own food, which given ten or twenty years, we may well be. But no other sport is really helping evolve the human body the way running is.

[48:55] We're going down a good rabbit hole here, because running's never been more popular, it's the most participated, easiest, lowest-barrier-to-entry sport in the world — well, football's probably got more participants worldwide. But as this bubble builds, do you think human biology might actually start to change? We might need to go back to school and study some medical degrees just to keep talking about this nonsense. If anyone's

[49:26] seen good, proper science on kids running, please send it in — we just haven't seen a lot of data, it's usually done on adults. Especially because, as much as we joke or talk seriously about kids running, we're both genuinely big fans of making cross country great again in this country — nothing better than kids doing some endurance-type events from a kids'

[49:58] standpoint, out on trails, in some dirt and mud, not just on the track. I'm just scanning through some of the comments, and everyone's got a take, and there's no right or wrong, but my take is if you don't know the outcome, play it conservative. Why wouldn't you? There's nothing to gain by breaking someone as a

[50:29] twelve-year-old — generalise before you specialise, keep your kids happy first, let them try stuff later. Speaking of trying things, what do you think of Nike's new mesh look? For those not aware, it's called the Radical Airflow — a new apparel innovation designed to help athletes stay cooler by maximising airflow and enhancing the body's natural cooling process.

[50:59] First look, it looks like something you'd have seen at Mardi Gras back in the day. Bang on — when I first saw it I thought, this has been done for trend, to differentiate, because we've talked about all the trail brands doing crazy stuff, spray-on shoes, everything else under the sun. I first thought it was about trend, but the more I've seen of it, this has actually been

[51:31] developed properly, this isn't just a fashion piece — it just happens to look like one. So the long-sleeve one, I'm probably not wearing that, but then I started seeing the hats, the singlets and

[52:02] what's come — I'm running in it, yes, especially being up here in Queensland, because there's nothing worse than being in Queensland summer wearing some heavy garment designed for the general runner. Different materials make a massive

[52:34] difference up here in summer — probably why most people just run with their shirts off. Well, that's fine, but I want to run with my shirt on. I'd have to see it in person — it's called the Radical Airflow, a genuine scientific design innovation, not just a fashion piece. It comes in a short-sleeve top, singlet, bucket hat and cap — I'm all in on the singlet

[53:05] and the cap, I'd try the short sleeve too. The long sleeve's the jarring one, because for those who haven't seen it, it almost has your elbows cut out — cut-out sections where your elbows go. I get it, it's like the triathletes in Hawaii covering themselves in white for sun protection — it's about taking the heat

[53:35] out. Makes sense, I like it. I'll tell you this much — I've put in a request. Have you? Yep, a request's gone in with Nike for a couple of Radical Airflow long sleeves — the OG version, for us to rock down the esplanade on the Gold Coast. Send me the singlets instead, no, no, no,

[54:05] we need to try the long sleeves. I like it, I think it's an example of what Nike can do that no other brand can — I reckon if that came out from almost any other brand, it'd be looked at as silly, that's the power of Nike's brand around something like this. If a niche fashion brand I wasn't aware of a couple of years ago tried to roll this out, I think people would laugh, or it just wouldn't take hold in the mainstream. So you think you'll see

[54:35] this at marathons? Yep, I think it's actually available for purchase from June the fourth — the long sleeve's June the fourth, and the rest comes out July the first. Is that in time for Gold Coast? That's in time for the Gold Coast prediction — you'll see plenty of these singlets and hats crossing the finish line at the Gold Coast Marathon. How do you reckon they go on

[55:05] chafing? Hopefully some of those holes are perfectly positioned — different for the ladies, obviously — but very cool, performance-focused. That's a tough word for you, isn't it — performance, performance, performance. I've got a lot of tough words, Liam. Let's get into some listener feedback, because we've had plenty of people jump in, Courtney.

[55:36] Where am I going — you on Jarred. Yes, yes, congrats again — when's this stuff on your miler going to finish up? Let it go, mate — don't, I've got a coffee cup, it can keep coming. Thank you, Brett. Liam deserves it. Congrats on the miler — just finished listening to this week's episode about sporting clubs and merchandise, the Demons — by the way this was your casual clothes take — why aren't AFL

[56:07] clubs wearing casual gear into the stadiums? Yes, the Demons are — that shows you haven't been watching enough Demons, that's what Jarred's saying. The Demons have been doing this all pre-season, or pre-season slash pre-game all season now — we've been asked for more footy, and here we go, more footy chat, I'm going to give you some chat

[56:38] from the expert over here, Liam. So Jarred said, a few hot takes — he thinks it's Fremantle's premiership to lose. I don't like that phrase, because they never win — well, do they? Historically, in the last five to seven years, has the team that ran away in the season won the premiership? No — Adelaide won the minor premiership last year,

[57:13] and got knocked out in straight sets. I take the point Jarred's making, and I don't love the phrase, because for the most part in sport, finals are a different beast — Geelong's a good example, Chris Scott's basically said he doesn't care where they finish on the ladder as long as they qualify for finals, they're going to be dangerous once they're in. But to Jarred's point, Fremantle are better positioned than they've

[57:44] ever been to win the premiership — they made the grand final back in 2013, maybe '14, and lost to the Hawks. The only player still playing from that Fremantle grand-final side is, ironically, Lachie Neale, now at the Brisbane Lions. Everyone else is gone, but they've never been better positioned. The challenge for them is, if the grand final's played at Optus Stadium,

[58:15] it is theirs to lose — but if the grand final's at the MCG, that's the problem every interstate team faces, if they get to grand final day against a team more familiar with the MCG, you're up against it automatically. Right now, if the grand final's Fremantle v Sydney — I think Sydney's best is incredible, they're not as consistent as Fremantle right now, but if that's the grand final, I'm here for it, it'd be a great one. So why do the Lions buck that trend about winning at the MCG? Because they've figured out how to play

[58:49] the MCG — it used to be a hoodoo for them, but they've overcome it, worked through it, it's obviously partly mental for some teams. And the wildcard round at the end of the season, seven through ten — new this year — has created a lot of interest among fans of sides in the lower half, who'd usually have their season done by now, but everyone's still in. That's the benefit of it. Remains to be seen what it does for finals specifically.

[59:19] One of the motivations for bringing it in was to make the season last longer for teams not finishing in the top six, and it's doing that — Carlton, remarkably, after their coach resigned, still relevant, St Kilda up and down, Collingwood with all the attention on Pendlebury, GWS having a resurgence, all these teams. Realistically, though, it's probably going to be more impactful in three or four weeks' time, around round sixteen,

[59:49] which is historically when teams not making finals start to make the game boring and unwatchable for the TV viewer — this should change that a bit, for the interest factor. I still can't quite wrap my head around the idea of a top ten — when I jump on the website and look at the ladder and see where everyone's

[01:00:19] sitting, I see they're still in the top ten and it just doesn't gel with how I'm thinking about it yet. But look, chances are the Gold Coast Suns might need it — the local boys. Did you call the Q-Clash on the weekend? I did, I'll speak plainly about it — I think Noah Anderson's a superstar, one of the best captains in the comp, All-Australian last year, Matt Rowell's the reigning Brownlow medallist, and their third gold-standard A-grade star — we're talking about three

[01:00:51] genuine A-grade stars of this competition. That was as bad a game as I've seen them collectively play as a group since they came together at the start of the year — as unimpactful as I've seen Noah Anderson be in a game of football for a long time. So Brisbane, absolute bragging rights, and they can keep them for now, but Damien Hardwick knows it, he doesn't need me telling him — they're sitting sixth still, they should still play finals,

[01:01:21] but their best football feels a long way away, and their next three weeks are daunting — Geelong away, a tough road trip, Hawthorn at home, a scary proposition, Fremantle away in WA. So what the Suns are as a team in 2026 will be found out in the next three weeks. Do you think the Lions, staying on the Queensland train — was that a big win, a turnaround?

[01:01:51] Did you walk away from the game, having commentated it, thinking, did I ever doubt them? I've said it from the start and I'll stay with it — if the Lions are as fit and healthy as they can be, playing their best football, I still think it's better than anyone's best football, better than the Swans, better than the Dockers. They sit eighth right now, they've

[01:02:22] got Richmond next week, a game they should win, then a bye to reset. They've got a host of injured players — Coleman, McCluggage, Zorko, Allen, take your pick, Lester, McCarthy — an incredible out-group if they're all right and ready to go. Lookout come finals. OK, so for those asking, that's a bit of footy chat, a bit of an update from Liam. What I wanted to hit you

[01:02:52] with quickly on the footy merch side — something you sent me during the week, Pace Athletic, the sausage — oh, I was giving you props, mate, I was giving you props. Pace Athletic — you talk about not being into fashion, Liam, and not ahead of the game, but you were sitting here in a Suns soccer jersey

[01:03:23] last week, and then they copied it — Pace Athletic just dropped, for those who don't know, the online retailer based out of Sydney — well, they've opened a big brand-new store in Sydney, they've always had bricks-and-mortar stores, they had one in Manly. Actually, we partnered with them before — we talk a lot about nothing being new around here — going back, this could've been a decade ago, mate, we did some stuff partnering with Red Bull and Pace Athletic doing Strava segment activations, we did the Spit to Manly trail.

[01:03:55] Was this who you partnered with for City2Surf when you gave away that trip last year, or was that just a standalone Red Bull idea? No, this was going back years ago, we were just doing — you know. Anyway, I went down to their Manly store, the boys first met the Pace Athletic crew out at Uluru, they came out and ran the — far out, I've forgotten what it's called now, pretty much the Westmax Monster, no, not the Monster, the multi-race they used to run out there around Red Bank Mountain, biking, but they used

[01:04:25] to do it for running too. They've combined with Adidas Running for a Blurred Lines campaign, very soccer-inspired. It's a cool club, a great club, sharp. You were on the money a week

[01:04:55] ahead — just got him, just got him. Hey, Paula dropped a comment on last week's episode, just saying thank you, Courtney, for being transparent about what you've been doing, it's truly inspiring stuff to listen to. And hearing Benita's advice was awesome — Paula said she and her partner are both doing Melbourne and New Zealand marathons this year, and after listening to this, she messaged her partner asking if he wants to do the double at Gold Coast next year, along with Sydney. She said the episodes are truly inspiring, and she'd never really listened to any podcast until we

[01:05:25] started this one. Well done, and thank you for continuing to deliver the goods, Paula, big shout out for listening. And yes, Courtney, I know you might think it's not much, but you being open and honest about everything you're trying to achieve with this marathon — when you typically like to play your cards

[01:05:55] right against your chest — it's big of you. It's growth, you're growing as a person. Thank you, Paula. I've definitely got a few — what would you call them, competitors, throwing their hats

[01:06:26] in the ring — I reckon I'm not just after Tim Rigby any more, there's a few more throwing their hats in now, then pulling out after last Thursday's session. Commit to me — if I can get you one of these Nike Radical Airflow singlets, would you wear it at the Gold Coast Marathon? Very possible, alright, there we go, that's enough for now. I'm talking about one of the long sleeves — I've got to wear a singlet, not a

[01:06:58] long sleeve in a marathon. It'd look cool though, you'd stand out, you'd be easy to spot — that's true, there's another fashion benefit, if you're the only one in the singlet too, you'll be pretty easy to spot. That's true. Do you want to hit this one from — is it Jarred? Quickly — no, Jake. Sorry, Jake, let's leave that one to next time. But what I do want to do is finish today on a little bit left-field — best TV show right at the moment, a few things I've been watching.

[01:07:31] A bit of pop culture — one I thought I'd never say, Liam. You were talking about it earlier and I was going to throw it in too, watching the Kylie memoir, or whatever it is. Oh, the Kylie Minogue one? Yeah, that's on Netflix. Is it good? Amazing — I haven't watched it, can't say I'm a massive Kylie fan besides knowing the music, but it's amazing when you start to unravel a life

[01:08:02] like that, a pop star's life. Yeah, it's wild — anyway, I want to watch it, I'd recommend anyone go and watch this three-part series, go and watch the Kylie episodes, you'll learn something whether you like her or not. Different story, but go and watch it — I'd put Kylie in the Pat Rafter, Steve Irwin club, where no one dislikes Kylie. It's not about her music —

[01:08:36] you might not like tennis, but everyone likes Pat Rafter, and you might not like wildlife, but everyone loves Steve Irwin. So it makes sense — I think two or three years ago I was up at the Red Bull Energy Station at F1, and there was a little corralled-off area only certain people could access, and Kylie was in there, she popped in. You've met her? I suppose I would have — well, I didn't really have a lot of interaction, to be really frank with you,

[01:09:06] it's not someone I'd walk into a room and go up to — but here's the story, because there were some other pretty influential older men in that area I was in, obviously working in Australia now but ex-UK, and they were like little girls. I've never seen grown men just go weak, literally turn into kids, around

[01:09:36] this woman — I never really understood it at the time, but after watching this documentary, I don't think most Aussies realised how big she was in the UK, she was huge over there. And presence is a funny thing too, it's not about physicality, but some people just have presence. So she was in the area, and the DJs actually started playing one of her songs, and she went out and danced, of course she did.

[01:10:06] Have you watched Clarkson's Farm? Oh good — I'm going to put that there as my all-time favourite TV show, hands down. I've watched all the Grand Tours, Top Gear, watched them right through — whoever thought you could make a farming show this entertaining? Have you watched it? I've never watched an episode. Do yourself a favour — I think it's on its fourth or fifth season now, I'm hanging out for Wednesday for the next four episodes. Do yourself a favour, everyone, take my word — Clarkson's Farm. What have we become — we're talking fashion, we're talking Kylie, we're talking Clarkson's Farm, we've got a broad audience, I'm sure they'll appreciate it. I've always said the best recovery is sitting on the couch watching Clarkson's Farm, stream away. Alright, that'll do us for this week — enjoy. Remember, we're three weeks out from the Gold Coast Marathon, another episode dropping Wednesday, we'll continue to follow Courtney's journey, and I'm looking forward to a bit more revelation stuff — I might even have your Nike singlet in time. Standby. We'll see you next week. See you next week.