No Phones, No Cups, No Excuses | EP 82

[00:00] In the Beginning, episode 82. Courtney, we haven't done one of these for a while — we're apart. Yeah, we're not in the same room, and I said no more podcasts when we're not together either, and here we are — I couldn't help it, couldn't miss a Saturday. Where have you dragged yourself off to? If people aren't following you on socials, it looks stunning where you are. Yeah, I'm up in Hervey Bay.

[00:30] Actually, randomly, I'm in one of the coolest little Airbnbs in Hervey Bay — you'll find it's like stepping into a modern house, but out of the '70s, they've got a record player in here, and I showed it to my son and asked if he even knew what it was. Really random, colourful rooms, so sick. But we're just using it as a base to head out to the west coast of Fraser Island, that's where you've been seeing some of the shots on

[01:02] the water, mate. But I'll tell you what, running's easier than being a boatie. Have you had a chance to go for a run while you've been around there, or is it all boat life? I did — I got out one arvo for an hour, and I messaged Matt Hauser after I posted it on Strava, said I reckon he would've done a couple of these Esplanade laps. I'll get a run in the morning, but then just wait till I'm back on the coast and get out into the forest, I think.

[01:34] Well, I am still here on the Gold Coast, and I do have a Miler update — a lot of people reached out off the back of last episode, where I talked about how tough training had got for me and where I was at with it all. We'll get to that a bit later, because I've had a good week, a great week, I'll talk about that. And I've got an update on my crew chief, checked in with Nick, the F1 pit crew, so I've got some updates on that front too. The other thing was, there's

[02:07] been a fair few people writing in about what you said, getting to that boredom stage, or just getting a bit rundown heading up to the Miler — it hit a real nerve, in a good way, with a lot of people. The notion of just going, hey, I might be bored, I might be struggling a little bit, haven't got my mates running with me, whatever, but I'm still out running, and that's something. Yeah, look, I'll talk a bit about how I worked through that last week, a bit later in the episode.

[02:38] I'm going to hit it early — Courtney, subscribe, share it with your friends. We are now inside twelve weeks to the Gold Coast Marathon. For everybody sitting there waiting, watching, going, where's the marathon specials — they're on their way, next week we'll be dropping some stuff, so be patient. I hope everyone realises you're now within your twelve-week window — if you're going with a coach, an online plan, whatever your choice, we're into it, we're into the window.

[03:08] So Gold Coast Marathon prep, we're into it, which is exciting, and we'll get to more of that next week. Where do you want to start us off? We've got some fun running news from around the world, Courtney — where do you want to start us off? There's a few this week, Liam. Look, the first one is, we're stuffed, the robots are coming — I saw it, it's the same one we talked about last year, up in Japan — sorry, in Beijing, E-Town, they're doing the half marathon,

[03:42] robot marathon again. Now there's no official results — last year they ran 22:40, which works out to roughly 7:37 per kilometre pace, a brisk walk, maybe a steady jog. But here's the word now, this is a rumour, that robots have been clocking 3:37 pace this year in trials. Can you imagine, in trials? Yeah, we're

[04:15] getting — and I saw the videos, I should've put it up in the notes, holy hell, man. You saw them doing the fighting stuff online too, the karate — where are we going with this? For those who haven't seen the humanoid robot runners, cool, right — some very clever people have created robots doing their

[04:48] version of running. I'm sure there are uses for this technology, but here's the reality — if we humans want to see machines move quickly, we tune into Supercars or Formula One. I don't think this holds any appeal to the average person, I don't think it will — the nerds will love it, the tech nerds, great, fill

[05:19] your boots, go build your robots, have fun. But as far as running goes, I think as soon as these robots start going faster than humans, it stops being about running, it's not athlete, it's not human excellence or achievement. I agree, mate — they need to work out how to charge EV batteries faster before we get into this, and stop having lithium batteries explode.

[05:49] Go figure that out first — I don't need a robot that can run a sub-three marathon, I need a lithium battery that won't explode when I'm charging my e-bike. Yep, a hundred percent — I saw that, was it somewhere in Byron Bay, an e-bike shop on fire, they've been going up all over the joint. Have they? My wife — the next one across the net now: the Paris Marathon went cup-free. Yes,

[06:23] very polarising topic, this one — obviously cup-free for the right reasons, good for the environment, a whole range of things. How does that stack up against your experience running a major marathon? What do you think? I think it's a joke, that's my gut reaction. I wouldn't quite go so far as to say it's a joke —

[06:53] what I'd say is the Paris Marathon put optics over what's actually leaving a footprint. If you're that concerned about the footprint you're leaving on the environment, don't hold the marathon. Don't hold the marathon — because guess what, and early listeners of the podcast will know I have a tendency not to research things, i.e. the toilet-lungs thing, your lungs are a toilet, if you don't know what we're talking about, go back to early

[07:23] episodes where I've tried to equate your lungs to a toilet. I'd guess the carbon footprint of the international visitors to the Paris Marathon would far outweigh the cups, which I imagine you can now get made from recycled material, not being available to runners on course. And on top of that, you're increasing the risk to your athletes, increasing the potential for dehydration, increasing the potential for harm to your participants.

[07:57] And for what? Something that, again, without having done the research, I'd guess has a carbon-footprint reduction that isn't worth the trouble. Yeah, I think this was definitely virtue signalling at its best. But reading into it a bit more seriously on why the outcomes weren't so great — it's fine if you're happy to stop and walk at an aid station,

[08:27] but having to stop and walk mid-marathon just to get your water — some are saying it's only five, six seconds, but if you're out there trying to run your best time, that impacts your race. People couldn't get enough water in the cups, they were using sprays to fill them. So there's a whole range of things that, from your experience of marathons, I just don't think this is ideal in any shape or form. And I'll get called out for this,

[08:58] I'll bet — we won't mention it, but it was Salomon cups being used, like their trail version, a packable plastic cup. I'll assume the plastic's probably recyclable, that's a big assumption on my part, but I'm hoping that's the case. The notion of it is, yeah, the runner experience isn't there. And if it's a one-off, one-day thing, just

[09:28] give the runners the water. Pick your battles, right — if you're that concerned about your carbon footprint, I'm just looking at the video of this fellow with his reusable multi-use cup, getting the sprays, and looking at all the fantastic volunteers at this race, all decked out in merch made for the event. So you'll create the input, the footprint you're creating around this event with all the manufacturing, all the signage

[10:00] you're making, all the merch you're making, all that stuff — and the notion that, oh, but we won't use single-use cups along the race route, and therefore we're eco again — I just think it's a drop in the ocean that could be better used elsewhere. Yep, so we've joined the debate, like a lot of people, on that one. On more positive news, and this is right up your alley, Liam, the

[10:30] Masters — are you across this? I saw this post asking, is there a rule that spectators at the Masters can't have their phones, or is it just etiquette? Courtney, you've tapped into one of my bucket-list events. We've talked about the races around the world we'd love to do — we went as far as talking about creating a family holiday

[11:03] around an event, with Sundays as an idea. If I could go to one sporting event and be satisfied forever, if I had to go to one event and never go to another for the rest of my life, it would be the Masters. The Masters, for those who don't know, has the most stringent rules in place about etiquette and behaviour from its spectators — one of those being you can't take your phone in.

[11:34] It's almost — I've spoken with people who've been, seen lots of podcasts and clips about it — but these people talk about it being as close to a time-machine experience as you can get, because you're transported back to a time before phones and everything that comes with them. It's talking to people, looking around, maintaining your attention span, not fiddling in your pocket. And here's the other kicker people talk about, because

[12:05] of the size of Augusta and the sheer magnitude of the event — if you say you're going to meet somebody somewhere at a certain time, you need to be there. If you don't wear a watch — people who wear watches are the more highly evolved spectators of the Masters, because they actually know what the time is. Most of us don't wear watches anymore, we just check our phone. If you go to the Masters without a watch, you've got to ask

[12:35] someone what the time is, because you don't have your phone to check. They talk about these experiences where if you go with a friend to the bathroom at the Masters, you have to say, meet back out here, don't wander off — because if you wander off, you might not see your friend again for the rest of the tournament, or even the rest of the day, because there are no phones allowed. I didn't realise it went this far, I just assumed it was no phones out on the course, but

[13:06] no, you're not allowed to even bring them in. You can't take a phone at all — this is amazing, the greatest sport in the world. There's more, more rules on the course, let me pull up the full list and roll through some of them. You can still take pictures at the Masters, though — hang on, I'm just

[13:38] looking up — here we go, things to buy at the Masters, the merch is apparently unbelievable. Okay, what items are prohibited at the Masters: phones, cellphones, any bag, backpack or purse exceeding a certain size, laptops, tablets or other electronic devices, cameras — permitted for practice rounds only, but you can't bring cameras during the tournament itself. You can't take eskies, can't take alcoholic beverages, obviously.

[14:08] Signs, any chair that isn't collapsible without an arborist, selfie sticks, those periscope things people use at other tournaments to see over crowds, radios, recording devices, strollers — you can't take any of it. Bring yourself, and your clothes, that's it. What a change for your kids, just get in there and experience the tournament. Now, the etiquette is another thing — they do allow service

[14:39] animals. You might've seen it at other tournaments, it happens at the cricket here in Australia, once the gates open you see people take off to try and grab seats for the day — running isn't permitted anywhere at the Masters, you're not allowed to run to get a good spot. So actually that's not great for you and me — so what happens, speed walking? Someone called it feet-off-the-ground speed walking.

[15:11] You're also not allowed to nap — as lush and peaceful as it might seem, they frown on people just putting their head down and having a nap. It's got so much rich history around it. Do you know much about the Champions Dinner? I know a little bit, but tell us more, since you'd be into it. So for those not aware, the champion from the previous year hosts a dinner each year with all the still-

[15:44] living, active champions who can come along. Rory McIlroy, who just won the Masters for a second time, hosted this year's dinner and will host next year's too, and the champion gets to choose the menu. This year Rory had elk sliders on the menu, because in the lead-up to last year's win he was eating a lot of elk meat, so he wanted to honour that. He also had Irish champ, a mashed-potato-type dish. Adam Scott, the only-ever

[16:17] Australian winner of the Masters, had a fantastic Aussie-inspired menu — I think it had a pavlova for dessert, an Australian wagyu strip as the main, grilled calamari, and some beautiful Aussie wines. The worst one, apparently, was Bubba Watson, an American two-time Masters winner — it's considered the worst menu of all time, because he won it twice and went with the same menu both times: Caesar salad, basically chicken nuggets with macaroni

[16:51] and cheese, and confetti cake for dessert. The joke is, this guy's won the Masters and basically taken the best golfers in the world to McDonald's — it's a shocking menu. But again, it's another tradition around this sporting event that adds to the history, the nostalgia, the storytelling. We talk about experience all the time with running events, and it's the little things you do, the traditions you build, the

[17:22] things you do for participants that make it special. So did I read right that a spectator ticket is a lottery, just like a lot of these major marathons at the moment? And is there a lottery system, and do they keep it exclusive on purpose, which drives more FOMO to get there? Tickets are basically access through an application and a lottery system — here we go, I'm just looking up some sports betting sites,

[17:53] roughly, the odds of winning a single-day ticket are less than one percent. So you either have to be lucky or rich, or know someone who sponsors it, generally. Interestingly, there was a bit of flak in the lead-up, because the other thing they have before the Masters is the Par 3 Tournament, where players often play with a family member on the bag — you'll see some players with

[18:25] their kids, some with their wives or girlfriends, whatever it might be. This year it copped a bit of flak because the likes of Travis Kelce, the NFL player, and Kevin Hart, the comedian, were all there, and ESPN turned it a bit more into a LIV-Golf-style event. The traditionalists, the people who love the Masters for what it is — this revered, quiet, nostalgic, traditional

[18:57] tournament — didn't enjoy that circus element creeping into everything in the lead-up. I'll be really interested to see this time next year whether they pull back on that, or whether, like we see across the board with events these days, the floodgates of influencers just stay open — you're never going to close it, that's just how people promote events now. I made the joke about knowing sponsors, but I actually second-guessed myself — I don't think they show much branding at all, do they? It's just Masters branding, and

[19:30] here we go — it has six official sponsors: Bank of America, AT&T, IBM, Mercedes-Benz, Rolex and UPS. So it's probably a lot more like the Olympics in that sponsorship sense, a small club, probably insanely expensive to get into. And everybody else can get stuffed. Well, moving from exclusive

[20:00] and traditional to the complete opposite, which is Coachella — if you've been on socials it's hard to miss these days. Did you see the campground 5K? Couldn't miss a running event at a festival. Tell me about it, I didn't see this. So there were a number of smaller fitness activations within it, but this one was Coachella itself,

[20:31] 9am start, both weekends, at the campgrounds they've set up — I can't see any branding, but within the camping hub they set up a 5K, and I don't know how it went, I can't give you any more info than that. But these festivals, anywhere you're seeing younger crowds these days, you're seeing some type of fitness activation.

[21:02] Fitness is just part of it now. It's kind of like, when you sit down to plan an event, you go, okay, what are we doing in terms of running, on the side. Did you see Justin Bieber at this, and talk about winding it back and keeping things simple — he made

[21:32] up his mind, well, he was singing along with his own YouTube at parts, wasn't he? I'm not across Coachella a lot, but it's one of those things you've got to experience at some point, I guess — not on the bucket list for me, it's really not. I'll tell you what's firmly and truly on the bucket list —

[22:02] next year I'm doing Hyrox. Right, next year I'm doing Hyrox, mate. What made you go — I mean, Brisbane on the weekend, obviously, but what did you see that made you go, I've got to. Well, no, it's an itch, I've got an itch, right. I've had a lot of people now that I'm a month out from this Miler — and we'll talk about the Miler shortly — a month out

[22:33] and a lot of other people going, why are you doing this? I think a couple of episodes back we kind of unlocked a bit of an answer in my brain about wanting to be able to talk about ultra trail running from a position of experience. I really want to understand what running a mile is, I want to feel it. I know what running a marathon is, but I really want a sense of what it's like to run a mile — I'm not just hypothesising, I want to be able to talk about it with you and other

[23:04] people, not to say I'm an expert, purely from having done one and knowing what it felt like for me. Hyrox is omnipresent, it's prolific, right — I'm not trying to become an expert, don't want to break records, don't want to become a Hyrox devotee or apostle or anything like that. But I do want to know what it's like. I did check out an event just in Brisbane the other weekend —

[23:35] a friend of mine from the gym, Momentum Gym in Burleigh, where I go and train, they'd run a really specific Hyrox training program in the lead-up to it, which everyone seemed to have really enjoyed. Claire, who went up there and did it, I was speaking to her the other day, and she said she had a great, really enjoyable time. And now I kind of want to go and see what it's like, how my body reacts, not only getting ready for it, but I also want to be able to say, oh yeah, Hyrox as a

[24:06] competitor, as a participant, is — insert reaction here. Well, I dropped into Hyrox last Thursday. I went in, had a look briefly — the women's event was running at the time, this was Thursday afternoon, the women's open doubles I believe was running, and I must have walked in just as the women's open finished at the same time, sub-elite category.

[24:38] But what surprised me — I've been to Hyrox before, twice, the first was when it was first in Brisbane, maybe three years ago, maybe two — and it's grown now, Brisbane's gone from two days to four or five days, it's starting to get right out there. But what surprised me was there weren't as many younger, athletic-looking people there as I expected.

[25:13] Watching the women's doubles and the back end of the open going around, I would've expected to see all the Gen Z we keep talking about in different demographics — what did you think it appeared to be? Well, I'm not going to try and guess anyone's age out here, but it was looking, on average, more like your 30-to-40-year-olds, that was your age group out

[25:43] there as the majority. I'd love to see data on this, but I just walked in Thursday afternoon expecting it to feel like a run club, and it wasn't — not in a good or bad way, I just expected to see all that Gen Z. So it's interesting from a demographic point of view — I think running's bringing in a lot more of that Gen Z audience, your 18-year-olds and the real younger crew. Hyrox seems, for some

[26:14] reason, to skew slightly older, resonating with that slightly older group. If anyone has an idea why that might be, or wants to call me out for having my head up my backside, or being completely wrong and ageist — well, look, it's well and truly on the bucket list, I want to experience it, I want to see it, I want to feel — hey, what do you make of this, have you seen this Gout Gout

[26:44] stuff going on in the news, not just the whole final of the Australian — yeah, let's break it down. Last time we spoke, Lachie Kennedy had just missed out in the 100 metre final at the Maurie Plant, and look, a host of other things to talk about, like what happened with Claudia Hollingsworth in the final of the 1500. Yeah, I saw that. In short — sorry, not the Maurie Plant, the Australian Championships, the

[27:14] Nationals — in short, to put all those other things in a box, Australian sprinting and middle-distance running is in a great spot. You could argue that with Cam Myers — if people don't know the name, this is a young man who, over 1500 metres, is as exciting a talent as we've maybe ever had over that distance. He's just

[27:44] super exciting, and he's, I think, eighteen, nineteen years of age. So middle-distance running, sprinting, all in a great spot. Let's talk about Gout Gout and what's going on with this 200 metre final — he's come out and broken his own 200 metre national record. He's run 19.67, if I remember rightly — check the actual results of that final — but what's sparked the news is 6/7,

[28:16] okay, so it was a 19.67, the fastest ever time by an Australian, he beats his own record. But I guess what's made headlines is that everybody else in the final basically PB'd as well — it was an incredibly quick final, and that speed, that across-the-board PB performance, has drawn a lot of question marks from overseas.

[28:46] I think Justin Gatlin's weighed in on it — sounds like the Americans are the ones who've piled on. Basically the Americans have seen the result and gone, okay, come do it, come do it overseas — and there's been some people, as there is with everything on socials, actually questioning the validity of the time. To me, everyone's kind of right, if that makes sense —

[29:16] Gout ran a 19.67, you can't fake the time. You can't fake the time, but they're saying the wind was legal, it was a new track, and I was talking with a fellow who knows, Michael Whiting does a bit of run coaching — there's also a wind monitor down the straight, my understanding is, Courtney, you might be able to add some expertise here — that it could've been swirling, giving, I suppose,

[29:49] a tailwind for longer than what you'd get in one direction, and that might also be true, and that's fair game, that's the same conditions for a 200 metres everywhere in the world. To the point where the Americans are calling him out and saying, great, now come over here and do it — and they're right too. The challenge for Gout Gout now is to take this 19.67 form from here in Australia, get on a plane and go do it against

[30:21] the best in the world, not just the best in Australia. Yeah, whatever the case, why I love bringing him up is there's always news around him — every time he steps out, and we talked about this right from the beginning, good, bad or indifferent press, there's always a story. And this is just piling on yet again — everything around him hits the

[30:53] mark, whether it's beyond running, and that's what's exciting. We talked about it — the Australian Running Championships had all these great stories, some amazing incidents to talk about that happened, but in the end all overshadowed. And that's the secret sauce of anything, right — we're in an attention economy, and no matter how badly

[31:24] you want it, you can't really force people's attention. There are tricks, there's an algorithm, you can plan, but ultimately some people just grab and keep and maintain our attention, and Gout Gout is one of them. He's going to be — and, just going back to the running for a moment, that final hundred metres is a thing of beauty, just marvel, regardless of what happens with

[31:55] the clock or around the bend, the way he starts. I'm sure people who technically understand sprinting could analyse it, but you can't argue that final hundred metres, where he seems to hit the nitro button, and with that stride of his, it's just incredible to watch him take off like the other best runners in this country are in second gear.

[32:29] It's charisma, it's talent, it's charisma, and then it's the media fuelling it at the moment. We've talked about this on other episodes — when sports win big, two things happen, you've got to have a hero, and then you've got to have someone to present the challenge to that hero. I was going to say a villain, but in this case, I don't think there is one — it's just these two people

[32:59] creating a story. I think it's fortunate for athletics that this is happening, because the spotlight's on them — unfortunate probably for a lot of the other athletes who are world-class and doing great things, but everyone's going to be lifted by this story. Athletics is going to win. Can I make a prediction, an In The Beginning prediction? You talk about a villain, I think Noah Lyles becomes the villain

[33:31] for Gout Gout, once we get into it on the international stage. You talk about Gout Gout at eighteen, nineteen years old, ascending, heading into LA — the next Olympics, 2028, two years away, is in Noah Lyles' backyard. Noah will be thirty, defending his 200 metre gold medal. If Gout Gout can get there and threaten Noah Lyles, if he can be there and be

[34:03] drawing eyeballs, drawing some of that attention, being that unshakable, undeniable force he's shown he has the potential to be — I don't think Noah Lyles will like any of the shine being taken away from him in the lead-up to his home Olympics. He strikes me as the character — if you've watched Sprint on Netflix, or any of the Lyles stuff, this is a man who'll speak his mind, believes he's the best in the world, is the best in the world, and isn't afraid to call out anybody. I could see a Gout Gout–

[34:37] Noah Lyles narrative emerging, and suddenly we as Australians have our villain. When egos collide, it's always going to be a story — not saying egos in a bad way, just saying, egos colliding is always a story. Quickly, just to combine Liam's schemes with Gout Gout for a moment — hey Vegemite, if you need a consultancy meeting with Courtney and me, this partnership with Gout Gout is perfect,

[35:08] right? You've done an amazing job — I don't know what it cost you, but you got it cheap regardless. Everyone will have seen "Gout Gout Secret Is Out," the Vegemite sponsorship, the necklace, all that stuff. Courtney, there's one thing they could've done to make this whole thing better. What is it? When you put a billboard up that says "Gout Gout Secret Is Out," you add one word and it's already catchier — a more memorable billboard.

[35:41] This is your radio brain going here, Liam. I've got nothing. It's not hard — instead of "Gout Gout Secret Is Out," it's "Gout Gout, Secret's Out, Out!" Does it become a jingle? Instantly a more memorable billboard, you could apply it to Happy Little Vegemites as a song too. How they've missed this is beyond me — instead of "secret

[36:12] is out," it's "secret is out, out." It's not hard, it's right there in front of you — whoever was in that marketing meeting. It's akin to, for the rugby league fans out there, when the Redcliffe Dolphins came into the NRL, what, four or five years ago, and they brought in "Fins Up." And everybody on the Cronulla Sharks marketing team went, how did we not do that — how has "Fins Up" been sitting there for our

[36:44] entire history as the Sharks, unclaimed, and now it's the Dolphins' line? I don't know if everyone's sold on it, I'm a Queensland supporter of any team, but I'm not sold on "Fins Up." "Fins Up," "Gout Gout Secret's Out, Out" — is the secret out? Alright, let's get onto your running, Liam, because we've got a message that's come in — let's see if the audio works from

[37:15] Doctor Ben. "Gentlemen, Liam, Courtney, Doctor Ben here, just listened to your podcast on my long run, thank you very much for doing what you do, enjoying it immensely. Now, Liam, please, please, please do not let Courtney be your pacemaker — or if you're going to, at least have a good chat with Courtney's brother, Rick. Courtney's paced Rick on a number of occasions, and I've been involved in a few of these,

[37:47] I can name a number of times Courtney's pulled a calf or torn something and pulled out, actually DNF'd. And on other occasions you'll give him a set pace and all of a sudden you'll be running at 3:15 pace and popping. Courtney's a very good racer, but he's not a good pacer — find somebody else, Liam, please." I was trying to help you last week, saying I shouldn't be pacing Liam — appreciate that, Doctor

[38:20] Ben. I think I bumped into you on a Saturday morning at Parkrun, where you were meant to be pacing Rick trying to run a 5K down at Kirra, and you pulled up. Get the car — thank you for the heads-up, Ben. I don't think Courtney's able to, by the time I'm allowed a pace runner, support runner after 90 kilometres, I don't think there's any risk of Courtney dragging me into an unnecessarily quick pace 90

[38:50] kilometres deep into a Miler. You'll be walking. Can we see more people piling on? Shane Duggan — hey Liam, unsolicited but hopefully relevant advice about your night run: do a night run, 20 to 30K, but do it after covering the same distance in the morning, so do a double-run day, and don't take a nap in the middle. Start it late at night too, do it at 10pm, don't cheat and start at 5:30 when the sun goes down.

[39:24] He goes on, I've seen a lot of people lose their nerve and flip out in the cold, lonely dark of night on difficult terrain at UTA, Blackall or Tarawera — some even with 10K to go, and just throw it in because of the nighttime. So don't be a statistic. I love this from Shane, this is great — so he's suggesting a night run of 20 to 30K, but as a second run, a double-run day, having done a similar distance in the morning, no nap or rest

[39:56] during the day. Yeah, I like it, that's great advice — I think that's probably the safe way to do it, breaking it up. The other way you could do it, if you wanted to do a real long run, is start in the last few hours of daylight and just fatigue yourself, and go, I'm just going to roll in at 2am or something as well, just keep running. That's good advice, Shane, appreciate that, that's a great way to look at it. You know what you need to do.

[40:26] How's your running going anyway? So obviously last week people might've heard, whenever they listen, that I was in a bit of a flat spot. As I rolled into the week after that of training, it was okay, I was in kind of the same mental space. Then Sunday morning, I committed to the biggest, aside from the Noosa 50K ultra, the biggest solo

[40:56] session I've had — I was out there for a little over five hours. I went up on the border trail, got the poles out, and just rolled — because at the Noosa 50K ultra I was out there with Rosie and I probably went too fast running with him, chatting away. This long run I did, I ended up doing just over 40K, about 1,500 metres of elevation, a little over five hours.

[41:27] I felt really good — and I think it's given me, you talk about Holly Ranson talking to us about mind strength, and all the feedback's been about the 50K, and I didn't feel great about the mental test of that one. This run left me in a really positive frame of mind, kept me in a really positive frame of mind heading into this week's training. And look, life's, for

[41:57] comparison — Ed, my mate who's doing the Miler with me, I called him just to touch base, said, mate, how's your training going, and he said, mate, I've had a shocking week, work and life have gotten in the way, I haven't run at all. So he's had a week of basically no running. Now, comparison is the thief of joy, but sometimes when you're not

[42:27] feeling brilliant about how things are going for yourself, a little bit of comparison can lift your spirits, because it gives you that, well, it could be worse — I could've gone through a week of running not feeling brilliant and inspired, instead of a week without running at all. So the running's feeling good, the body feels — the diligence, the strength training we've banged on about in previous episodes, and no doubt you'll hear a lot about it heading into the marathon block, diligence and consistency around strength training is key.

[43:00] The body feels really strong. I want to tell people a bit about our talk last week with Nick, who's crewing me for the Miler, my F1 pit crew — we had a FaceTime where Nick ran me through it. I'll tell you what, I'm absolutely spoiled — Nick's sent through a spreadsheet, and to continue the F1-pit-crew analogy, this

[43:31] spreadsheet's got the following tabs on it: a run sheet showing the location, the distance from the start to each checkpoint, the distance in between to the next checkpoint, the distance to the finish, counting down the cut-off time I need to be there by, whether drop bags are permitted. Are you concerned about the cut-off times?

[44:02] Not at all, not at all. But the drop bags, whether they're permitted, spectators, whether they're permitted, detailed information on what will be provided by the race outside of my own nutrition. And then he's done the maths for every checkpoint, if I want to hit my rough goal of keeping it around 28 hours, so he's got me pacing times to each checkpoint. That's just the first sheet on this spreadsheet.

[44:32] Then there's a nutrition plan I need to fill out for him, detailing my expectations at every aid station, fluids, gels, other food. He's put my mandatory gear list up there, a further shopping list of what he'd suggest having in all my drop bags. He's got crew rules for any friends who want to come along and be a part of it. He's got a spreadsheet with driving directions for himself

[45:03] and how to get between checkpoints. Honestly, if I fail, it won't be because of my crew. I've got two questions for Nick, which hopefully you can answer maybe one or two of. One is, I wonder if this is a spreadsheet he's developed himself, or something the ultra-running community's

[45:36] developed over the years, one of those things the best handlers in the community have put together. Look, it's a good question — what I do know is that I'm being given a bit of secret sauce here, and I won't say what it is, because when Nick told me about it, he said this is a bit of a secret that

[46:07] Holly uses for her racing. So don't repeat that. But I'm being let inside the tent here as far as ultra running goes — some of the things he's given me on this shopping list of suggestions, I'll run through some, none of this is secret-sauce stuff, but shopping list and gear to pack on top of the mandatory stuff: make sure you've got two pairs of spare socks, make sure you've got two pairs of

[46:37] spare shoes, spare undies, spare t-shirts. He said some of that might just be mental, being able to change out of the shoes you're in late in the race — it might just be comfortable, but it'll add that mental refresh to what you're doing, changing out your socks, everything like that. He reckoned — and this one's great, not secret sauce — toothbrush and toothpaste. After twenty-plus hours of running around eating gels and sugary things, brushing your

[47:08] teeth at one of these aid stops doesn't do anything for your nutrition, doesn't do anything for your physical wellbeing, but it'll be a mental refresher, literally in your mouth. Sounds like you're going to Year 5 camp for the first time, Liam. Mate, it does feel a lot like Year 5 camp — pack two pairs of undies. There's

[47:39] one thing on there I won't say though, because as I said, when he told me about it, he said it's a bit of a secret weapon of Holly's. Suffice to say, again, if I fail at this thing it won't be because of my crew. And the second question I had for you was, does he sleep, does your crew sleep? Let me have a look — Nick's driving there from where he's based in the Riverina, in South Australia.

[48:09] He's bringing a camp chair, a blanket and a small Jetboil, a small camp stove basically. As I look at the driving instructions, it doesn't indicate any sleep time. But looking at the ETA between checkpoints, with me potentially trying to run a 28-hour race, the biggest gap it looks like Nick's going to get

[48:41] at any point is probably three to four hours. So it'll be micro-sleeps if it happens. It looks like there's a gap from 10:24pm to 2:10am, so almost a four-hour gap for him. There's a gap, planned, of about 8pm to 10:24,

[49:13] that's only two-and-a-bit hours. Three-to-four-hour gaps is probably what I'm looking at between seeing Nick, so he potentially has a couple of little micro-naps in there. If anyone has any suggestions for what I should get Nick as a thank-you gift, I'll take suggestions — if you've ever had a handler,

[49:44] what do you get them? We've got some Ironmen who listen to the podcast — what do you get your handlers after a big race or nationals? Courtney, did you ever give gifts to your support crew or coaches over the years? No, nothing that comes to mind, good enough. But I can tell you the handlers at the surf clubs probably get free beers for the night, normally goes down well. Don't know about after UTA how that goes — Nick won't be paying for a beer or a meal while we're up in the Blue Mountains together. Hey, just quickly too, you mentioned running up at Noosa

[50:17] with Rosie — I see Rosie down at swimming each week at Tallebudgera Creek, and the other day you were talking about him having trouble in the car coming home from Noosa, not finding his legs at the end. It occurred to me he has a drink company — Rosie's got his own drink company. So I said, give us some of the stuff to try,

[50:47] it's not energy-specific, it's electrolytes, for when you're out there and need them, or even day to day. He ended up flicking me some at swimming the other day, TerraLyte it's called. It's more for industrial use, out in the mines and that type of stuff, mate. Do you get him to give you some? Oh, big fan, massive fan — you know how much I'm a big fan of Maxus, a bit of no-sugar Maxus,

[51:22] I'd throw this in a Nalgene bottle or something and it all tastes good, mate. Fantastic. There you go — TerraLyte, basically a hydration product, designed for those, as you say, potassium, all that stuff, if you're out doing hard work and want to replace electrolytes. But forget all that, just the taste, mate, I'll drink more water because of it. He told me, don't shout us out, but I'm saying, mate, it tastes

[51:53] good, everyone should go check it out. So mate, in short, I had a great catch-up with my crew chief Nick, the body feels good, thanks again for the suggestion on the night run and how to structure it, I'll definitely tackle it like that. I've got a week coming up off the radio show, so I'm perfectly positioned to hit some of those night runs, and that'll be the final checklist item. I've done my big runs,

[52:24] I've tried out the poles pretty extensively now and feel quite comfortable with them, I'm going to hit some stairs near my place to really get that stair technique going, comfortable with repeat efforts, because there's a lot of stairs in this race. The night-time run is really the last checkpoint — once I tick that off mentally, I'll be feeling pretty good. It's getting close now, Liam. How's your running going, mate? Running's going well — like I said, I

[52:56] was up here at Hervey Bay, running along the Esplanade, been out on the water all day and thought I'd go out for a run, did a build run and dropped down a few kilometres, probably quicker than I should've at the end, down around 3:40, 3:45, 3:50 pace, moving along well. Look, I'm at the stage where you've given me a bit of a kick up the backside today, talking about how close this Gold Coast Marathon is, and this

[53:27] next month I've got a lot of travel coming up, which is never good for me — I'm someone who thrives on consistency, as much as I get around and travel and do different things, when work or other things in my life take me away, I feel most content and best when I'm at home with a structure I follow each week — I know I turn up to the Spit on a Tuesday,

[53:58] I know I go to the forest on this day, I'm very structured in what I do. So when I travel it always worries me a bit. But I've got some fun stuff coming up with the running and the travel too, which we'll share along the way. And when it comes to the marathon, under twelve weeks out now, I've got to make a pretty quick decision on how I'm really going to approach this — that's all coming up in the next few weeks. Running's good, mate, the body's holding up quite

[54:28] well at the moment, looking forward to getting home for a few days and knocking it out. Well, I was going to say, we've got a fun one, a bit left field, to do with triathlon, that came in from Ben Green — have you seen this? Yeah, you've seen this one, interesting stat, reckon it's a good one to chat about to finish up on. This is from the post he sent me, let this sink in:

[54:58] what a wild stat, the average finisher of an Ironman has a yearly salary of over $250K. Triathlon and money, I'd love to see the stats — it's different, right, because triathlon, a major Ironman event's capped at maybe 3,000 competitors for some of the

[55:28] larger Ironmans. When we talk about run fields hitting capacity at 30,000 now, London taking two days, it's a bit like the Masters to a degree, nearly exclusive. People try to make it to Hawaii, for example, and there's very limited numbers. But take it with a grain of salt — I actually don't think this would be as far from the truth as we think. Triathlon, yearly

[56:02] salary of $250K, my gut — do you think it's true? No, I think it's inaccurate, I think someone's found some numbers to make a compelling real online post, $250,000. I don't know where this guy is, is he an Aussie guy who's dropped this out? Because if you think about it, if this has come from

[56:32] an American source, the average Ironman finisher has a salary of $250,000 US, that's half a million Australian. Yeah, we'll call bullshit on that one. Look, again, I haven't done the research, but I don't believe it — I'd need someone to walk me through the numbers, because you're talking about the average — potentially, if Elon Musk goes and does an Ironman, it distorts the whole pool, it means nothing.

[57:02] It just means the richest man in the world, in a field full of humble average-income earners, has completed an Ironman, so the data's irrelevant. I do believe Ironman and triathlon has a cost restriction to it — we've talked about the cost of entry into these races, and bike riding is expensive,

[57:34] the cost of equipment as well, it's an expensive hobby, and that's why running's booming like it is, because it's relatively inexpensive, especially as we see these Chinese super shoes and things come out and make it less expensive. Let's take this in a different direction, because I spent a bit of time at the end of my triathlon career around true adventure sports, coast to coast, gear, kayaking,

[58:04] abseiling, all this other equipment — not only do you need your swim goggles and wetsuit, your bike and some run shoes, you'd probably need a mountain bike, a road bike, a ski or a kayak, other specialist gear, instead of just having a mandatory gear pack like you'd take in a trail race — you'll be carrying a rucksack on your back, might need two of those for some styles of

[58:36] adventure race. However, I've always found that attracts a very different demographic to what triathlon attracts — this is a generalisation, but there's something more grounded in the personalities attracted to different

[59:06] sports, and the personality attracted to Ironman specifically, triathlon draws a certain crowd. If that's the conversation, less about the numbers, then it's an interesting question — does the nature of Ironman and adventure racing inherently attract certain people? It's funny, because what this is leading towards is, if you earn an average

[59:39] salary of $250,000 a year, that doesn't mean you're a successful person. Does money equal success in some capacity? Sure, but in others — I've got friends who are teachers, who have great family lives, don't earn $250,000 a year, but by my metrics are incredibly successful humans, and they don't have that kind of income. So forget the money for a moment, because I think

[01:00:10] we'd probably agree the numbers are just inaccurate, whatever — but I think the personality type probably lines up, has some kind of parallel. There's a real Type-A personality attracted to Ironman, in the sense of — and we're generalising here — but through offices, through

[01:00:41] corporate, that kind of A-type-personality-driven world, and that equals Ironman. Definitely not putting everyone in the same basket, but I think most people would agree there's a high proportion of that sort of thing. Is that true in running too, or is there just so many people who run that it's diluted, so you're getting exactly the same types of personalities within running and marathoning, but it's just

[01:01:13] really diluted because the barrier to running is so low. Let me use this — and I want this taken the right way, if you're listening and haven't done an Ironman, I've never done an Ironman either, don't take this as — I've only done a shit Ironman once, but — don't take this as a shot at people who haven't done an Ironman, I'm going to try work around the idea of people who do

[01:01:44] Ironmans, and even marathons to an extent — if you sign up for one of these things, you have to be someone who's goal-oriented. This isn't like going, yeah, I'll come out for a hit of golf, or a hit of tennis, you're setting a goal in your mind that requires, as we know for a marathon, a twelve-week block or more, you're setting a goal that's tangible,

[01:02:16] time-specific, and if you bring that back to people talking about setting SMART goals, specific, measurable, attainable, whatever the T stands for, you could suggest people who go on to finish these races have those traits in them as people, and are likely to have those traits in their professional lives too. To then not just set the goal and begin the training, you need to finish.

[01:02:46] And that post refers to the finishers of these races, so there's a level of seeing-it-through ability in these people, because they've set the goal and gone on to overcome whatever hurdles are along the journey, and actually get it done. You're going to get uncomfortable, for most of these people, it's taking themselves outside their comfort zone — again, another attribute of them as a person, in their sporting

[01:03:16] life, that probably carries into who they are in a professional context too. So if you wanted to support that argument, you'd go, these people who race Ironman, Ironwomen, are people who take themselves out of their comfort zone, can set measurable goals, can stick to a structure, can embrace discomfort — and in our world, if you can do all that stuff, you'd probably get paid well for whatever it is you're doing for work.

[01:03:47] Is it an interesting conversation? Do you know what I took out of most of that, Liam? What I really took out of it? That you're just not earning much money. Well, that one, definitely one. But two, the fact you mentioned SMART goals means you've been in some kind of, what do you call it, a review, within an organisation at some point. So hold on, that was going to annoy my brain, because there'd be people

[01:04:19] running along listening to this going, what do the R and the T stand for. SMART goals are specific, measurable, achievable, relevant and time-specific. It was timed out, there you go, it's time — I always need a deadline, always, a hundred percent, so the T's important for me. Hey, okay, so we'll be back with one another next week — for everybody sitting there going, where's the marathon stuff, it's coming, we're going to hit it hard next week.

[01:04:49] A lot of people wanting a half-marathon in Spa, and half marathoners we're guiding specifically, we've heard you — we want to bring back the shine to the half marathon this year as well, because if anything, we've been undermining half marathoners, arguably it's a harder race to run in some ways, because you're in your red zone for longer. We'll get into all that, we're talking to our old mate Benita as well, she's going to be involved in some capacity. If you've signed up for the Gold Coast Marathon, rest assured the special-edition episodes are

[01:05:19] coming back, so make sure — if any friends of yours are signed up for this year's event — you get them onto the podcast, so they can come along the journey with all of us as well. Yeah, and if you're wondering why there's no video this week, it's because I'm sitting in a two-year-old's bedroom in the dark. We'll be back on video next week. We'll see you next week. See ya.