Liam's UTA Miler: No Sleep, A Locked-Up Knee & 38 Hours To Finish

[00:00] In the beginning podcast, and it's a different intro today because we've got the man, the myth, the legend. Here he is, Liam Flanagan. Miler Finisher. Miler Finisher. You put those doubters right in their grave, didn't. You very quickly I'll say this, it became time became irrelevant. This became very quick about not DNF-ing this, whole

[00:30] thing, this whole experience very quickly into that the whole race itself. I don't want to call it a race 'cause I wasn't racing a damn thing. No, it became very quickly about not DNF-ing. And if people are looking for any incentive motivation to finish events, go start a running podcast, Go go get a job on a radio show. There is nothing like the possibility of being humbled Monday morning on your radio

[01:02] show or turning up to this podcast with you and having to explain the DNF to motivate you to keep going. It was. It was amazing. Thank you to all of the beginning family who were sending in messages. We the video started flowing at one stage. Did you feel that support out there? I gotta give some shout outs. So many people came out like and gave me a shout out along the course specific shout out to Jeremy, who I hadn't met before.

[01:34] I only ran technically I only ran 1 of this one section of the whole thing solo, right? Because for the 1st 100 KS I was with Ed and then basically for the last 50 I was with Alana. I'll tell more about that in a while. But Jeremy, the one section I ran by myself, I came up a staircase and there was this fellow sitting there ringing the cowbell for everybody coming up. And I just said more cowbell and not knowing who he was and he's. But Liam, you're here. And then he walked with me for about, you know, OK or

[02:04] thereabouts, listening the podcast, chatting away. And he was, yeah, he was a big shout at Jeremy. He was there at the finish line as well. Yep. Felt all of that. And more. Oh it's amazing all of that. Thank you to everyone who was supporting. I was trying to do my best on social. Well, and then they have Jen and well, 'cause I had and this the I had my phone off. Yeah, well, I noticed. That because I tried to base time me a few times. Enough. I, made you, I gave you a couple of videos, but I basically, I kind of made the decision the start of the day. Firstly, it was because Ed made

[02:37] the point, my mate who I was running with that he's on the 100K, his phone ran out of battery and I was like, that's a good point. And then I also kind of went, well, why would I have it on? Why do I need it on? You know, I'm sure I could record some stuff and take some photos, whatever, but that's not what I've been up in the blue mounts before. That's not what this is really about. Is there any, is there any point in that 160 where you could get lost or you were seeing someone always there's there's probably some sections. Where you could take a wrong turn but not.

[03:08] Could you see someone the whole way? Yeah,, yeah,. I, was never alone. It's busy enough that it's busy enough. Like there's some sections in the night where the night stretches where if you were going out there solo and I was just thinking about this the other day, in another world, I could have had a completely different experience out there. But I was the way I got it done or the way it happened, it played out. I got to spend 38 hours out in

[03:40] the Blue Mountains. 38. Hours. I got to do 100 kilometres of that with my best mate Ed. Yep, which is longer than we thought we'd stay together. He was in way better nick for it than I was. Apparently. He ended up finishing two hours ahead of me. He was strong like he's he'd done really good strength training. Not nearly as many KS or elevation, right, but he's done some really good strength training. And so he finished a couple of hours ahead of me. But I so I did 100 KS with Ed and then basically did the last

[04:10] 50 KS with my wife. So at no point did I have any of those what we talked about. Dark moments where you're by yourself, yeah, or needing to chunk it up too much because you were just focused on who you're with. You know, I was still having the mental battles in my head to keep myself going, but I, from a loneliness perspective, I didn't actually have those sensations because I was always with somebody. OK, let's work out how we're going to break this down and go through it. Those who have tuned in to listen to the Gold Coast Marathon series. This is a special episode that

[04:40] we couldn't leave. We wanted to get Liam as quick as possible after the race, so we'll pick up on Saturday. Yep, some more Gold Coast Marathon stuff. But for the moment, focuses on our man here, our Miler, and that's Liam. So yeah, I know you've got some notes. I've. I've I tried to this is the I jumped on as soon as I woke up Sunday morning. I tried to write down as much as I could remember to share with everybody here. And I'm gonna bounce off with some questions off this, but my first question when you walked in, actually I don't, I don't

[05:10] even know where to start. But Alana. So let's. Start what's? Going to turn on. This is a perfect place to start because I my wife Alana is running the Gold Coast Marathon for the first time this year. She's never done a marathon before. The furthest she's ever done is 1/2 marathon. So she is listening to these series in preparation for the marathon, which is great. So she'll hear this. I've said this on the radio, I've said this on my socials. I'm not, I haven't. I don't finish that race without her. No way. Now, there was never any

[05:40] intention that she only decided to come down maybe 3 weeks ago. She only decided that she would register because you had to register as a pacer for the Miler. She only decided she would register as a pacer the day before we flew down. So we were scrambling to get because the Pacers will have to carry the same mandatory kit that the runners do. So we're scrambling around trying to find all the mandatory kits so that she can actually pace me. Do they have to pay? No,, I see. It's actually it's within your entry. It's actually a good little work around, eh? And again, it was, it was never

[06:12] any structured plan of where she was going to jump in. We were kind of just, she was just going to kind of figure out along the way if she might jump in. But 100 KS in after the Six Foot Track loop I was in trouble like I was in. When you say in trouble. I wanted to. I want. Well, I had so I'll I'll tell you the six foot story now because it is. It's the moment of the race for me. It was the moment of the whole mile so. when do you go into 6 foot you're? About you're about 85, I think

[06:42] you're probably, you're probably 90 kilometres in when you get to the Six Foot Track aid station, OK, you're 90 KS in, OK. And is that down in the valley where the there's a bridge? You go across and then you're and then you've got a 15K loop and then you rejoin the proper 6 foot proper race track again. So there's essentially a little loop that you go and do. Now Ed and I got to the Six Foot Track together. Gus who the third guy who we'd gone through those first 90 KS

[07:12] with, that's where he pulled out. He had a shin injury. And so I saw first hand someone withdraw from this race and I was like, oh that sucks. Yeah, Andrew, another friend of ours came into the track and paced us for that loop. Now I started that loop in really good spirits. I was like. And when do this stage, are you running the whole way or is? Running the last, the last kind of probably 20 KS from probably 70 to 90 KS through to that station, Gus, Ed and I were

[07:44] adopting a run the downs, walk the UPS and sort of interval the flats, right. And it was working and it was going really good and we were kind of averaging out when we would do that. We're kind of averaging out 8 to 9 minute KS and we and we started that loop. I was in good spirits by the end of that loop. I was really doubtful to finish. So that's we're probably at 1:00 AM in the morning and my energy levels just went through the

[08:19] floor. My ITB on my left knee completely seized up and just locked up and basically anything down, it became agony. Anything downstairs gradient, anything that required me to step down. This left knee, it was like a nail. And you've got a lot of steps. It was a nail. Every step down was an absolute nail. And so my energy was low, my knees hurting and I got tired.

[08:50] And this is where. And this what? Sorry, what time it's not. It's 1:00 AM here. And so Andrew, who was pacing us for this, was actually having to, he stopped me a couple of times from basically falling over the side downhill, like down a not a Cliff, but pretty he wouldn't. Have mentioned. Would that be a good fall? Yeah. He's shown he sent me some videos where I'm staggering like I'm proper drunk stumbling around. There's other videos where I'm just trying to shake my head awake and I did all sorts to try and get and it was tough.

[09:24] And I decided and I was hallucinating too. And this I'd heard about Forrest, you know, the nighttime hallucinations that people can get. I had the lamest hallucination ever. OK, give us because. At one point during this loop, this, you know, Six Foot Track loop, I said to Andrew, why is all this office furniture here on the side of the truck? Why you're going through? And he's like, what are you talking about? I'm like, look at all this off the I could see all along the high side IKEA style office

[09:57] furniture. And it wasn't just like, oh, that looked a bit like a cabinet, full blown desks and filing cabinet. I could see office furniture. I wonder if that subconsciously has got something to do with work. I don't know. But do you have do you have IKEA? It's a triple M Boy IKEA I. Don't know, but I was seeing office furniture. Wow. And then I saw a big white cat go across the path that. Could have just been out there. Yeah, it might have been, but then I saw a big car. It was, I was my and I'm like at

[10:28] that point I and I was again. And then I was falling asleep while I was trying to run. And I said I decided in my mind I needed a sleep. I said I need to get back to the aid station and the solution to where I'm at is asleep. I'd convince myself that 15 to 20 minutes had fixed me. Andrew who was pacing me lovely guy text and he was he would have let me and he text Alana and said Liam thinks he needs to sleep when he gets back to the aid station.

[11:00] Alana's response was fuck no. She then takes Nick who I will talk about later, Nick crewing me and Nick said Oh no way that we're letting him have a sleep. And so I got back to the aid station after this 15K loop which took us almost 4 hours and I was my mind. I was expecting to get asleep like in my mind. You were looking forward to? It I'm going to get 15 to 20 minutes just to lie down and

[11:30] close my eyes instead. Nick didn't even let me sit down. Nick handed me my gels and everything, nutrition, hydration, everything for the next leg Alana had put on. Borrowed some trail shoes from someone laced up. We just went straight out. Wow. No stop straight out. I'm I'm stuck on borrowed trail shoes as well. Half size too big too. She had to wear it. So I'm straight out and then an hour into that stint I was hands

[12:01] on knees throwing up on the side of the trail. I'd taken some No-Doz and tried to and I just threw everything up and then stumbled through that next leg until and with Alana again prodding me, just wake me up. Like hitting me because I would just be she'd turn around and I'd just have my eyes closed and was like, I would be stumbling. She'd be like, wake up, wake up, wake up, just waking me up. And this is so it's 2:00 AM in the morning and we grind through up Nellies, which is the biggest steep climb. And Nick kept telling me when the sun comes up, you'll be

[12:34] better when the sun comes up. I couldn't see it. I could not see you didn't sleep. No. OK, let's let's take a break. I've got some questions. One, this doesn't sound like fun. That's not a question, that's a statement 2 The question I had. Sure. Because when you went through it all and we were watching the GPS and we could tell you hadn't really, do you think in hindsight, if at 1:00 AM you actually slept for six hours and

[13:06] then got up the next morning and then went on and started doing it, that would have been a whole different experience because you were out there for 38 hours, right? And you've pushed yourself through. I'm assuming the story's coming where you at least take some mini naps at some point or? Didn't have a nap? You did not sleep at all. OK, so here's my question. If you take a full proper sleep when it's that long, do you actually make that time back up? Because you are so refreshed as

[13:37] if it's like a second day, a multi go back to Defiance, right? You get, you finish your day. I sleep, I rest, I recover and I come back and I do it again. And I don't know if you remember, even in Defiance, a lot of people come back actually stronger and feel better the second day after that rest. For me, I don't think so because of my knee. I don't think I wake up from asleep with my knee in any better nick than it was. Could have possibly been a no start. It could have like I could have woken up and gone. I can't. This is this. I can't get this going and then it's an easy withdrawal.

[14:09] Yeah, the sleep, the sleep thing, it really interests me that you never had a nap. Yeah, it didn't, didn't put my head down at any point. Well, sorry, I lied. Because at one point as we were coming down Kedumba, Alana needed to go to the bathroom. So she went off into the Bush and I sat down and this was the big learning out of this is sleep. Well, you know Benita's told us this, Britain's told us this. However, any expert has told us how important sleep is. I now agree. I agreed before, but now I agree even more. Alana went, I had to go off in into the Bush to go to the

[14:41] bathroom. I sat down on the edge of the Kedumba at the downhill section. At one point I reckon I put my head down in my hands for maybe a minute and I was out and to the point where I was so tired that you know how when you fall asleep it takes a while to dream? I was dreaming instantly, like I know, and dreaming to the point where I put my head in my hand and that pose that I was holding whilst I was sitting on the side of the trail. And I'll tell everyone the dream because I remember it so vividly. That image of me sitting on the

[15:13] side of the trail with my head in my hand, suddenly in my dream became the logo for a coffee shop that I'd started. And that was on all the cups. And I was standing at the counter of a coffee shop. And then I heard footsteps, which I'm like, oh, someone's really excited to try this new coffee shop that I've opened. And it was Alana who just went wake up and hit me. And I was like, oh, And that was the end of that brief 62nd nap dream that I had. And back we went off rolling down the hill again. So. Oh, I'm speechless.

[15:43] It's like I,'m, I'm speechless because I just keep coming back to the fact like. Why didn't I have a sleep? Like if you were that tired. Look, honestly, can we talk? About many sleeps. Yeah, we, did talk about it a bit. And again, if I think if I'd been by myself, maybe I sleep and I don't know. And look, it's a hypothetical. Yeah,, yeah, maybe I sleep, maybe I do wake up feeling great. Yeah. What's more, what's more likely

[16:15] is I is I don't. That's what you think. That's that's what you feel. Knowing how my body was and knowing how my left knee was in particular, and it's funny because I've been wanting to, I've really been thinking about this knee, OK. And there's been times where I've gone, oh, well, I could have gone faster or been stronger or finished better if my knee hadn't done what it's done. But that is an excuse. And then I go, well, I clearly didn't prep my body the right

[16:47] way to have that knee strong enough to endure what I put it through. And then I think about and, this is again, I let go of the idea of this being a race and, time and anything like that early. But then when I think about it, that's, and you look at the people finishing on the podium, that's part of the process that they're going to, their body is going to put through something. So aerobically, preparing the engine is one thing, but then preparing all the muscles to be able to go with the engine is

[17:22] another part of the preparation. So yeah, you mentioned Ed. Yes. Had prepared differently. Yeah, really differently. And you think he held up better? Than me, yeah, he did and look and Ed won't mind me saying this because in the lead up we were talking about when I would leave him right. Because I am a better historically over marathons, half marathons, 10 KS, 5 KS. It's a faster run. I'm a I'm a faster runner than Ed. What Ed did in the preparation for this and this is Ed who I raised defiance with and Ed

[17:54] did the 100K last year and I think that really helped him too because he really knew the course well, like he was I didn't know the course at all. Ed was talking me through different parts of the course, not on the in the through the 1st 90 KS or whatever. I'm like, I don't know any of this, what Ed had done and I had been looking at Ed Strava throughout the first 3-4 months of the year and I was looking at his case. I'm like he's, I feel like he's barely running. He was still putting up good kilometres, but less than me and less elevation than me. But what he was, what he told me when we got out there, he had a

[18:25] personal trainer and it was all legs he was doing. It was all in the gym or in the gym. In the gym it was all strength by stuff around his legs and he held up really well to the point where he was able because he wanted to basically. I think he wanted to keep it under, albeit around 36 and he did, I think he 36:20, 36:30 or thereabouts. Sadly for Ed, his transmitter, his tracker said he withdrew at the Six Foot Track, which he

[18:57] didn't. And I think he's desperately trying with UTA to get the results amended because at the moment he's ADNF, but he finished. But yeah, so Ed held up really, well and was able to really grind out and actually continue jogging and moving through the last 1020 KS of the race. Individual experiences could be different totally or anything. But I didn't the legs. Yeah, didn't, didn't. Yeah, You,, you think you need more strength in the legs as a yeah., it was the legs, not the

[19:28] the heart. No, it was the legs, not the engine. No,, no, aerobically from a from a running capacity perspective. You felt. The lungs and the heart would have been fine. The legs weren't there. Now you mentioned you didn't know the course but then others would have access to the course. I saw a post or someone talking the other day about nothing sacred anymore. Like, you can literally see the whole course in 4K and everyone's experience. Yeah, not knowing the course, not knowing what you're in for was that, did you enjoy that adventure? Yeah, I really did. So I've done some of it through the 50s before.

[20:00] I've done 250 KS at UTA. So you knew the back? End and so I knew the Furber Steps, I knew Kedumba, the downhill from QVH. I knew, I basically knew, from Fairmont, the golf course. Yep, through those sections. But stuff like the ladder sections, the ladders we climbed down, a lot of the sections we ran through at night. I'd never been out of the Six Foot Track before, So a lot of that was new and it was really cool to see. Look 6 of 1/2 a dozen the other

[20:34] if being aware of the incline or the elevation gains throughout the course would have helped. I don't know. I think ultimately it was 161 kilometres with 7000 metres of elevation like it was. You preferred it. was a good adventure. It was going to be one way or another, but I've never been up to Lockley's Pylon. I've never done the Lockley's Pylon climb before, which is a legitimate climb. Like it's, it's not a, it's hands, it's not a right. It's, that's not a hike, that's a climb.

[21:06] You are climbing the side of a Cliff. And what and what time was that? That was in the 1st 25 K. So you get to a Lockley's at about 25 KS in. Amazing. Did you get caught at all? Like in a in a trap like have we had to wait? First, not really. Wait, the 1st 1012 K section, which you did it first thing in the morning by head torch, is there's no real running in it. You kind of just pacing along walk jogging in a pretty tight group and the only other time we

[21:38] really got held up. I didn't really get held up. They introduced that loop at the beginning at first section because of the hold up some people had last year. So they did it to stretch out the corset some of those stairs. The only other time Alana and I really got kind of held up, was not even held up but slowed down, was when we connected up with the 50K race, OK, which had got underway and we're on the single track. With the same. So there was just a lot of us pulling over to the side to let people. Through so you wouldn't have seen this but there was a post of and I don't know which event

[22:11] it was in but chaos at the bottom. Like I'm talking 10 wide, all trying to get up through a trail. Oh, no. And then guys running up Bush bashing. Yeah, together. It was you. Like it was like they were walking into a rock concert, but they were in the middle of the trail. So I, hadn't seen it. I can see how it's happened though. Like the, I'll say it now, the way UTI organised this is unbelievable. They the job they do on putting this thing together, the

[22:41] Blue Mountains. Be a logistical. Nightmare Unbel, the volunteers, the paid event stuff. This is a world. I was thinking that at a time. This is a world class event in a world class location. And that's the thing I like. I'm as sore as I am, as sad as I am, as hard as this is the Lana and I had moments where as the sun's coming up, we're staring out there at these. I'm like, this is unbelievable. This is unbelievable. And the coverage over the years has improved so much

[23:12] more like watching along this time was. So funny. Story, much of you on the. Video. Funny story about the coverage, though. Funny story about the coverage before I started or the day before. When we got there, Jackie Bell messaged me and said, hey, if you get to the finish line 6 before 6:00 PM on the Saturday, I'll come and grab you for an interview on the finish line. And then I think in my head I was like, don't get us the finish line by 6:00 PM on Saturday. Something's gone wrong in the end. I missed everybody about an hour and a half, that's all.

[23:43] We had our woman on the ground, Jen, getting your first reactions at the finish line. Miler finisher — congratulations! Completely underestimated how hard that was gonna be. I don't know what I thought it was, but that's the hardest thing I've ever done. Even harder than the revelations. Should I officially join the trail hallucination club? Some of the stuff I saw out there — oh my, I missed you, Courtney, I missed you.

[24:13] There's no way I would have been able to record a podcast as well. Let's we got our interview. Big, fat and jam. For being there at the finish line, it was unbelievable. And you were able to talk. You were. So yeah. Very. Coherent a lot of people cause a lot of friends and people that I saw that night, next morning were all saying you seem you're fine. You seem really coherent. You're and, the truth is, by the time the finish line got there, I'd had my darkness. Like I really, I, want to say I really enjoyed the last

[24:46] section. I didn't. Whoever's, whoever's measured out, whoever's measured out those final five KS, 10 KS and posted the signs. Oh, the markers, they're full of it. They're absolutely. Full of it because in a long way or. Yeah,, no, as in like you get to your watch tells you that you when you see signs saying 10 KS to go and then you feel like you run 10 KS and then you see a sign saying 3 KS to the Furber Steps. You know how, is there three more KS to go? Anyway, by the time I got to the finish line, I was so satisfied.

[25:22] I don't know if I wasn't happy. I was really satisfied. I'd made peace with because again, I internally I was a little bit disappointed by how long it took me. I didn't think it would take me that long, right In my head, I didn't think I knew early that I wasn't going to go into 30 hours. I didn't think it would take me that long. So internally at different stages, I was like, I'm disappointed that it's going to take me this long. I know. And I again, I don't want people to think I'm not satisfied and proud because I am. I absolutely am.

[25:53] I'm, there's a, there's just an ingrained part of me as a person that when I take on things like this, I want to do them really well. And because of what happened with my knee, I was, I got disappointed with myself at not having done enough to be, you know, to have bulletproof legs for the thing, right. So there was a little bit of disappointment, but I'd been through during the night, like I cried during the night and early on the Saturday morning at

[26:23] different stages. And my wife, God bless her, would take photos with her with a big beaming smile. And I'm just sobbing in the background because she thought it was funny. And she's right, it is funny. But what I was, I was exhausted and my every step, I can't emphasise how every step downhill was agony on that left knee to the point where every step I had double to double tap like I couldn't, I couldn't a downhill, I could not take a one

[26:54] step at a time. It was both feet onto every step because of this left knee. And that could dump that 8K downhill section where I saw friend of the pod Lindsay Laurie. Lindsay said his exact words or what message to me was I saw Liam. He's he's alive, yeah. But he's zigzagging. Yeah,. Yeah, I was. That was so hard. He. Looked as I think he actually and the last he looked delirious. Yeah, and I and I still was and I talked about the hallucinations at the six foot at the halfway point. I kind of thought I was through

[27:25] that. And then when I so uphill, I was fine. Uphill I was actually, I was really strong. Like the elevation training I had done really paid off because with the poles and the power hiking uphills, I was really strong and I had really good sections in that last 1015K coming out of the valley. And same thing I did at Noosa, which is breaking the trail down. So going, all right, pink flag, then that tree, then that pink flag, then that.

[27:55] But at one point I said to Alana, because Alana's doing all this with me, mind you, she's doing it without any elevation training and without poles. And I'm there with, you know, but I said to her, all right, let's get to that pink flag, which were the marker flags. I said after that, we'll get to the white car. We're in the middle of the forest. There's no white, car. I mean, I've looked up ahead. I've looked up ahead, 100 metres. I'm like, there's a white car on the side of the Cliff there. We'll get to that. It's like, What Car? So the white one. You were full. On and then when I'm trying to

[28:25] get to these last three cases, the Furber Steps everything on the side was something like I thought there were paper mache animals. I thought there were paintings. I thought there was drawing. People would like left messages. I'm saying to Alana, because and because everyone by that stage was back in their high vis vest and they were moving and when you're sleep deprived, exhausted, you've already, you don't have great eyesight at the first time and then you see fluorescent things moving around.

[28:56] Yeah, it was. The brain did some funny stuff. I think you're being a bit hard on yourself mate. Like, I know you always want to do better, but you got it done. You got it done. And that's what it was all about. Was what it was about. So then at this stage I've got the inevitable question of do you go again? What is it 1 and done? 1st So it's, it's funny because I remember the first time I finished the Gold Coast Marathon and that's where I 24 KS in, I

[29:28] had that classic marathon mistake of feeling great and going and then blowing up at 32 KS and then helping her in the last 10. And I remember finishing the Gold Coast Marathon and saying never again. By that afternoon it might mentally change my attitude. Yeah, finished the race and I and someone filmed it because I was talking to Nick and Nick was asking me what do you think? And because I remember saying to him mid during the race at the various checkpoints, I said, I don't know how, why?

[30:01] Why would you be a professional ultra runner? This is horrible. This sucks. This is where's the fun in this? And it takes forever. And then he said to me then he's like, now what do you think? And I'm like, never again, never again. That was. I'm so glad it's done. I'm so glad I have the experience of a Miler. But never again. Sunday morning Ed and I were sitting there going, maybe again if we found the right one.

[30:33] Yeah, you wouldn't go. Back I would never do. I don't. I would never say never. Yeah, it'd take a lot for me to do UTA, Blue Mountains, Miler again. The Miler. The stairs are just torturous. Absolutely torturous. That's an endurance. I mean, I think, I mean, it's the extreme of what you've just done, right. But that's just an endurance kind of. It's inherent in your insurance events and people who love endurance that you actually hated.

[31:04] Yeah. The pain while you're doing it, Yeah. You keep coming back for. More and more it's an addiction that comes back and that's how you I,, I think that's how you actually know who loves insurance and who doesn't because you come back for more, even though and look, it's so painful. I'm I'm. Bit like I,, I love the atmosphere, I love the energy, I love the people. I love it. All of it is great. And again, as I said, it's a world class event and a world class location. Yeah. And while I can't see myself putting myself through a Miler there again, you go back. I will.

[31:35] The what the. Other thing I will say, what I did say to people then after the race is what I and the next morning is what I would love to do. Now I have. A real itch to scratch about giving somebody the experience that Nick gave me. So, and I'll, I'll, can we talk about Nick before we jump in Before we jump. In the nick. OK, I'll forget. Alana jumping in with. You 'cause I didn't expect that. So when I saw, when I saw her on the videos, I'm like, hang on, what? What's going on here again? We didn't even finish the chat.

[32:06] About last no but. Everything I'm hearing you're talking about. Yeah, at one. It's amazing. She's just cruising through and laughing and I saw every video. I thought she was jumping in and out. No, she. So she basically did. I think she did 30 KS straight from six foot on. Yep. Then she had a break for that one section where I went out solo and then she did the last 20 with me. Amazing. That must make get all the more special now like you're gonna have yes, it's different. You'd we talked about doing it on your own and how it's a solo

[32:38] thing, but to do it to have that opportunity now that's a lifelong story, isn't it that you've got to share. I got to do a Miler. Tick. I got to do a Miler the first half with my best mate. Yeah, Tick. And I got to do. The last 60 KS and really work through the hard shit with my wife with my other best mate, you know and. Again, she was the perfect. Person because her direct quote

[33:11] was I'm not letting you not finish this because you're a bit sleepy was her what she said to me so you can't finish this 'cause you're a bit you can't not finish because you're a bit sleep Alana you. don't believe the number of times you've woken me up at 3:00 AM in the morning. But also, and she made a great point. And this is where, you know, again, if you're lucky enough to have these people around you, she knew, I think there was also some self interest at play as well 'cause she knew if I DNF'd it would have been a nightmare, OK, I would have been a nightmare to

[33:43] live with. Like then, you know, that's I'm not too proud to say I would have been a sook. I would have, I would have been sucking it up. I would have been finding reasons why it was everyone else's fault. I would have made all sorts of excuses had I not finished. And so she was probably trying to look after herself and the kids mental state by ensuring that I didn't bring that attitude home with me. So. she planned to run. Any she planned to well, she as I. Said Look, she's been, she's training for the marathon at the moment. She's, she's fit person anyway.

[34:13] She's always stayed really fit. She made the decision 24 hours before we flew out to become a pace register as a pace runner. And then she'd always decided she was going to jump in at some point. She just wasn't sure where. And in the end she jumped in when she did it 6 foot because I was battling because it was at my lowest. She stayed with me through the next section because. She. Thought that I needed it, which I probably did. I was kind of OK at that point.

[34:44] And then she jumped in for the last 28, which was great. Yeah,, awesome. I think that's. Mate that probably has to be nearly the highlight as much as finishing the thing again, that's crazy. I. Got to spend 38 hours with my two best friends, one of whom is my wife. And yeah, as you say, their memories forever now. So. I'm the I'm the Nick. Yeah,, I look. I wanna talk about this man because it was something that, look, I didn't know this guy three months ago, no, until he sat in. Until he sat on the just here. Corner over here, this bloke who

[35:18] put up his hand and said hey, I'll crew you. can do a Miler. Without a crew. I'm but people. Did it? It would be bloody hard. It would be another level of hardness, right? Nick took away all the need for me to think I did not make a request at any point. I didn't have to search out anything at any point. I got into every aid station and Nick was there with. The gel bags, the. nutrition, the hydration,

[35:48] with advice, with checking in, with a torch and a chair and whatever. Way when you say advice, well, he just he. Just said Yep, OK, look so really important you you get through these gels. I've given you this many how you feeling? How's it going down? And also just the calmness in those aid stations where I think if you're sitting there solo, there'd be the ability to get anxious or become nervous or panic or anything about that. And just the calmness of

[36:18] checking of how you feeling, how the shoes going, how the shorts. Do you want to change shirts? We've got a spare here. Are you worried about getting cold? OK, Do you want to try that? And there was a different point a couple of times where I thought maybe I'm going to get cold. Another thing I will say, we were blessed by the conditions, a little bit of rain throughout the whole thing but temperature wise perfect. If that had been any warmer during the day it would have been a real problem and if it had got any colder at night it would have been a real property. Did you problem as well change? Shorts and shoes never change Shorts.

[36:49] OK, so we'll start from the bottom down. Change shoes once. Oh, did you end up? Running. I ran. Yes, that's what. You need to talk about this. I ran in the S/LAB Genesis, OK, the Salomon, the S/LAB Genesis, and then put those in the bin after 120 K OK, great. But the lugs were probably a little bit worn. They're probably a little bit look, if I was trying to run faster, bit slippery. It might have been a bit slippery, but I wasn't going that fast. OK, great, got through it. In the end I just opted out of

[37:20] them for probably the last 40K and just jumped into my ASICS Superblast. Just a non trail shoe just 'cause I wanted cushion 'cause my feet were pretty. Yeah, well, that is Genesis. Pretty hard, yeah, So. That was the only shoe change and the sock change. I made one. Yep. Didn't change shorts the whole time. Changed shirts twice. OK and wore a thermal shirt for that Six Foot Track 'cause I felt like it was gonna get cold. Probably didn't even need it. And had a rain jacket on at different stages as well. When it when it rained. Yeah, but. That was about it in. Terms of chafe midway through roll with the Gurney Goo,

[37:55] which is the shirt I'm wearing at the moment. Brilliant. I just and this was that kind of that had knowing, you know, if you, if you did it a second time, you'd know all these things. Probably should just reapply it at a couple of different stages when I didn't. Yeah, never too bad, never too bad. But again, just a simple thing. I would have if I did it again, I'd go even though it's like that thing of I don't feel like I need it, but let's do it anyway, OK. But so Nick was just calm, composed, kept me again. He and Alana made the decision

[38:28] to push me on when I wanted that sleep, which was great. And the thing this is a so Holly Ranson, who we've had on the podcast, who is going over to Western States like next week and crushed it on the weekend. Well. This is what I want to talk about. So she's going over to Western States to race the Miler over there. She was out doing the 50K as a training run that was that was There was no intention to try and podium or win that thing. She finishes 3rd right in a quality. field finishes the two

[38:59] of the best. You know, Miao Yao and Ruth Croft. Yep. Headliners. Yeah, headline athletes. And Holly finishes 3rd. So, and that's Nick told me and I, might be sharing something out of school here, but first ever prize money she's won as a professional runner. That's the first ever prize money Holly has won as a runner with some of the big results. She's already got Yeah, and so and. So Holly is doing that, yeah. And Nick's truing me. Yeah.

[39:29] Yeah. And dealing with a flail up on the hill I get to QVH. And Holly Ranson, the 3rd place finisher in the women's 50, is standing there waiting for me, gives me a hug. And I looked around the night, Holly's giving me a hug and saying you're doing so well. And I looked at Nick and then my wife was there and Tim Dettmann, a mate who's a physio, starts giving me a massage and I've got another mate, Benny, who's there doing chasing things. I'm like, what's happening? Why have I got 7 people helping a bloke that's going to end up finishing 249th in this thing when we've got Holly Ranson

[40:00] standing just here? Well, that's the signs of a good A. Good, a good maid and a good oh look and we went out we. Went out and had breakfast the next morning and, just good people like Alana and my wife. Alana and Nick ended up spending a lot of time together at aid stations. Nick didn't sleep. Nick did not sleep for the entire time I was out there. So I was out there for 38 hours. Nick didn't sleep for 38 hours. And we had breakfast the next morning and he said I feel hungover but I didn't have the fun. So I'll I'll never be able to

[40:32] thank Nick and Nick enough for what he did. Now I want to ask. You, Tim Dettmann. Tim Dettmann. Is he part of your SO, Tim? Dettman is one of the. Runners in the dark crew, you know the Keyser Jim's as well yes, Tim was involved in those right early on He's he's he's out on his own now, but physio by trade. Tim is just one of the he's just one of these great people that I've met through running. Yep, all right. I ran with him down in Sydney as part of runners in the dark and he's one of those people that

[41:02] brings energy and is just a he's a great runner in his own ride. He's sub three our marathon runner. He's done. He's got a Miler coming up. I think he's I'll be doing UTMB injury pending, but he and Ben turned up. So Ben did the Miler last year and I think I read out the message Ben described. Remember when I read the message, my mate, that was Ben. Yeah, right. So. Tim and Ben. Turned up on the Saturday morning waiting for me at a bunch of the different things and well, he was always conversing. With Tim the whole time, well, for that, these stages and he

[41:36] was sending through a few videos and everything else, but he was saying Ilana was like the most amazing girl, said him. Yeah, he's going. She's so cool and she's laughing away in the videos. So yeah, no, yeah. Look, and to I've mentioned Lans and Nick, but to Tim and Ben and then my mate Andrew and his wife Sarah, who'd done the 22 again, for anybody out there who's thinking about doing one of these, just do it. Sign up for it. You'll figure it out, you'll work your way through it.'s going to hurt, it's going to suck.

[42:06] But what I would say is if you can, and I know not everybody is in a position to do it like this, but if you can do it with a crew like not, doesn't mean they have to race the whole thing with you. But if you can find some people that'll be prepared to be there for you at these spots, it does. It did make it special. It did make it that little bit more bearable. And yeah, like Andrew, who pays us for that Six Foot Track, me and I have already been texting back and forth about the fact that we will laugh about that story forever. Like the fact that I said, you

[42:37] know, we have that moment now. He and I've been friends for years, but we now have this story of when I thought there was office furniture on trails in the middle of the But we might have to try and. Get this from I might have to try and get on the phone with Andrew and get the other side of the story. Well, I will, and I'll look. We're we're a no holds barred podcast here. So I'll tell you the other part of that story, which is that we got 20 metres, probably not 20 metres, 50 metres away from that Six Foot Track after doing the loop. Yeah. And all the gels hit. And so I said to Andrew, I'm like, Matt, have you got any

[43:07] wipes or, you know, measuring? And he's like, yeah,. And it's pitch black except for us, too, and our head torches. I said quickly, give me them. He's like, why? I'm like, just give me them, It's time. And he gave them to me. And I said, now turn off your head torch. So. Yeah, talking, about. Andrews, Andrew Reid, Now Reid. Now God bless this man and I look he gave you some fire. Early on, right by saying, hey, you might have bitten off a bit

[43:37] more than you can chew here. And he was right. Into, in his defence, when I,, I said this when I finished Reedy for people that have been following on with the podcast might remember Reedy was the one who said he's sending some voice memos and you know, and this is just banter, but he said, mate, this, those, stairs have claimed so many people. Why have you? You've just jumped into the bloody hardest, the deepest end of the pool. And he was right that I underestimated that race. I did. But I.

[44:08] Think whether he did this. Intentionally or not, I reckon he probably did I because the last thing you need is nothing but cheerleaders. You need some people that are going to fire you up on the other side of things and really did that. And so along the way is these other friends, Tim and Ben jumped in and said, you know, do you want to send a message to the runners in the dark crew which way he is? He's won. It was invigorating. It was motivating to be able to say ready, I'm still going, you know, and I sent a message to that group 25 KS in up the top of Lochley saying here we are 25

[44:40] KS in da da and Reedy response was well, puffing a lot for a bloke who's still got 135 days to go. He didn't let. Up, you know and you know. We really know a message a bit and but he gave me some motivation and yeah, I know Reedy is fully got my back. He was invest I. Was I was an adventure man, I was. Yeah, he was over in New. Zealand at the time, he looked like an amazing place where he was, but we were messaging back and forth. Mate, I've got some, I've got some more. Notes. Let me rattle through some more notes. You hit me up with any questions you've got. Let's get through it.

[45:10] Do you wanna? Do you wanna know? What a bad sign to start was with the whole thing. The car that Alana was driving around in. Do you know what his number plate was? No DNF, I kid you not, the the number plate was DNF the hire car. We noticed that afterwards. Yeah,, yeah. Alright, so I made some notes that and I'll and I'll just go through this as we go it. Became about finishing. It very quickly. It's the longest thing I'd ever trained specifically for which

[45:41] that I think that was the when I crossed it was that satisfaction of going. I signed up to this in November. I trained these last four and a bit months harder than I ever have, and I've finished right, so that was incredibly satisfying. I completely underestimated. The race, and I'll put my hand up and admit that because it was far harder and longer and tougher than I thought then I'd mentally prepared myself for it to be. I knew it was going to be physically tough, but I didn't

[46:13] appreciate how mentally draining it would be over 38 hours. So with that metal. Drain because we talk so much and when Holly was in here she talked about it like we talk so much about strategies yeah to manage that as an adventure or break the course up and all that but you're saying in the end that you're you're kind of like saying more it was the people that got you through mentally yeah yeah because look. And. I'm not pissing in your pocket here, but like, I don't think I could do this. I look, you're, you've got a stronger bloody, you've got a

[46:46] stronger bloody head on you than I do, or a more bullish head than I do, because what? What? I mean, besides the fact you want it had to finish or in your mind you have to finish, but you can still it's so easy to pull out. I think. I think you actually just. Nailed it there with all the mental strategies that people talk about. It was people. It was. People that got me through and yeah, if. I was surprised you did. You were. With someone the hot As for. As long as I was. Yeah. Well.

[47:16] Always had someone with you and there was no alone time, so. I think that. Had I been out there? Solo probably wouldn't have finished or maybe I would have, but less likely mentally there were times where because for the first probably. 45. 50K. Quite tied in with. Ed and Gus Yep like basically shoulder to shoulder in you know TR 3 and a long run with your mates long. Runs with your mates right So. There's a lot of chat, someone

[47:48] doing most of the talking for a while, then you'd switch it up right then. And I'll admit to this mistake as well. And this is where strategy and ego. You should be factored in as. I got to I think it's Hydro Majestic checkpoint which was at about 45 K hotel up on the on the Cliff. Yeah, and there's a fellow there. Called Hess, who's a part of one of the running crews that Gus and Ed are in and he loves it, right? And he's another one of these great people within that trail

[48:19] community. But he's also he's a driver, he's a he's a pusher. He's a, you know, he's like, go, get it, go get it now. Like it's not he's not a stay within yourself and grind. It's like, let's go, right? And he came up to me and this is where not knowing the course and not mentally being ready, I made a mistake. He came up and said this next section you've got is the most runnable section. You'll get to 100 KS. This is where you can make up some time. This is where you can get some running kilometres in.

[48:50] Now I left kind of left Ed and Gus for that next checkpoint section and that got me through to 60 KS, I think, at Narrow Neck. And I remember sitting down at Narrow Neck and Alana and Nick were there and they said we're in gas. And I'm like, oh, I ran off on them a bit. And in my head, I'd. Run off and I was strong and I'd. I'd kind of, you know, I'd, I'd, I'd drop them. Yeah. I sat down and then they rolled into the checkpoint like maybe 90 seconds after me.

[49:24] And I remember thinking, why did I do that? I let someone else's opinion on how the race should be tackled get in my head. And now I've probably just used up some petrol tickets. Yeah. Because of someone else's thoughts. Yeah. And in such a long. And it gave me nothing that the timings and it and it gave me nothing. That's irrelevant in the beach, so it. Was it was a mid race? Lesson. But it was a good lesson. And that was probably that point where I was like, hey, this ain't about the time. This is about finishing.

[49:55] Yeah, just be smart and suck it back up. So went back into kind of that group running mode with it and hidden Gus until that 90K bank when Gus had to withdraw, unfortunately. But again, to go back, it wasn't had I tried to chunk it up or do other things and look, I know I told different people I'm going to try and think about you on the trail. I couldn't, I didn't, I didn't have the I didn't have that structure in my head to go all right, 10 through or 60 through 70. Now I'm going to think about so and so, and now I'm going to

[50:26] think the KS, just the KS and the hours just drift by. Did you think how much? Were you thinking in your head, OK, I'm here, I've got this much more to go. Did you think about like, did you think about I? Never really I. Never really thought about or was that dangerous if you do? That I don't think I. Didn't don't think I ever found myself going how many KS till the end? It became. How many KS to the next checkpoint? So you chunked it, you the checkpoint chunk is it was a

[50:58] thing I became yeah. And then it and then it became at different times. It became about the time like how long we'd been going and all that sort of stuff. Because the milestones along the way and Ed and Gus and I running as a group, we had this really nice moments where I'd never run like I've never run further than 50K. And so when we got to 51 K, we had a little tap of the polls. Yeah,. And when we brought up a

[51:28] marathon, we had a little tap of the polls. When we were brought up two marathons, we had a little tap of the polls. And when Ed and Gus had never run further than 100K. So when we got there, you know, we had a little tap of the polls and all that sort of. Well, actually there's a photo which I think I've sent you, but of Ed and I at the 100K market and I not well, but we had those little chunk moments along the way that we did try and celebrate. Yeah. And the polls, do you do you use them like you thought you did?

[52:00] If anyone else is doing, would you recommend them? So if for someone in who's coming into a trail running like you maybe haven't even over 100, would you ever use them? Absolutely. Yep. I'd. Use them over 50. OK personally. Yep are they for me were an absolute saviour. Not only a saviour in terms of being out of power. Hike up hills. I found them really, useful, but they probably saved me from really falling badly a couple of times during the night. Yeah, they Poles were great.

[52:32] So like percentage? Wise how much I reckon I had them out. From. 70 KS. None. All the rest of it, Yep. Wow, so yeah I get the fingers were pretty swollen on the Sunday just from but the poles were the Salomon poles. Outstanding. I saw one poor bloke snap his pole maybe 60 KS in and I just thought, oh you, this is gonna be horrible. You've got so much uphill to go where you clearly plan on using your pole and most of the.

[53:04] Runners you saw with around you doing that with, I would say for the. Milers, probably 90%. Yeah,, the Poles, it seemed invaluable. Talk a bit, a bit about hydration, nutrition. Yeah. What did you get? Yeah. So early doors, I was, I had a lot of gels, like it was. And again, if I did it again, lessons, I would change my nutrition. I would bring in way more solid food than I did earlier or just in. General earlier.

[53:35] Earlier and often, yeah, I was to rely on gels and, look, they're fine. They do give you what you need. They give you the calories and the carbs. But they become, for me, they became super unpalatable, really tough to endure. And Nick was doing, again, I'm not denying the blessing I had with Nick literally calculating my intake based on the wrappers I'm bringing back at each checkpoint. So he was monitoring that and early doors he's like, mate, you're good.

[54:05] You're averaging about 85 grams of carbs per hour. And then it got, when I got to, I think I got the hydrogen Jesse, he's like, Yep, mate, you're at 75. We probably don't want you dropping any lower than where you're at. OK. And then when we got to another section, he gave me a big, I think there was a couple of unaided checkpoints coming up and he gave me a big pack and gas. Sensed that. Nick was a bit concerned about

[54:36] my thing. And Gus then told me this. He's like, he asked Nick, how many of them do you want him to have before he gets back to you? And he's like, all of them, Yeah. And so Gus then basically was reminded. Mummied. Me for the next 30 K gel just suck, gel suck on the plastic gel teats gel yeah, gel. So I would incorporate much more solid food than I did. And again, it's that experience

[55:06] of looking at what Ed did. Ed was grazing constantly, just on different stuff. Like what? Like he had. Mars Bars and he had, he just had variety. And for some reason, I didn't embrace variety enough in what I was taking in. It was basically just gels. Yeah. And that for me, in hindsight, was probably a mistake. I if I did it again, or maybe it's not. Maybe if I tried it with other stuff, I would have gone worse. But I think if I was to do another one, I would incorporate

[55:38] far more variety into. Was there anything you're looking? Forward to so when you're talking nutrition here or food, were you like, could you have done something? So the first question is, was there anything you got and went, Oh yes, or is there something in the future 'cause you just mentioned Mars Bar then and I just went, oh God. Oh, I would be on the Mars. Bars for sure. So it was a couplus. It was a Couplus event which meant you had to take a plastic cup out with you, which I didn't but and I just didn't think about it again. You mean you had a flask?

[56:08] Well, I had. I had. Your flasks, I had my,, my flasks and my camelback, but in terms of they had Coke at the checkpoint and so Ed had a cup and I was drinking out of his cup when I was trying to get some Coke. So I probably would have taken a cup so I could have had more of that I. Think. When I had noodles and the warm noodle broth was amazing. But I think I,, I remember. Nick recommended vegemite sandwiches to me pre race and I

[56:40] Pooh poohed the idea. They're amazing vegemite sandwiches. Oh just simple. I found a. Checkpoint with one. Of those and knocked off basically a whole sandwich of Vegemite butter and Vegemite they supplied that they. Supplied on the at the. Aid station. So yeah, probably just look anything any say sorry? Yeah, but any savoury stuff like sausage rolls, pies, Where they at the aid station? Where you come in the smell we like. Oh yeah, not really. There was one aid. Station at Foggy's Knob where they would doing cheese toasties OK, which was great that's where I saw another it was around that point.

[57:11] So this is kind of before we get to Six Foot Track, Six Foot Track where I saw we'd met the guy called Justin and Justin was from the northern beaches of Sydney and we ran with him for a little bit and had a bit of a chat and a poor bugger. Again, this comes back to, I think as I'm talking about this, I'm kind of solidifying the thoughts in my mind because up until now it's all been just kind of jumbled around and notes on the phone. But what is solidifying is for me, the Miler experience. And I think anyone going forward would be about people. Justin, Ed and I ran with Justin

[57:44] for probably 15 KS, 20 KS thereabouts. And one of the first things we learnt was that a bunch of his mates had said we're gonna do the Miler together and that all pulled out. So he'd go on to the start line solo, OK. And then we chatted with him, we talked footy and we talked to a whole bunch of other stuff. And then when we got to Foggy's knob, he limps over with a really sore ankle and he's pulled out. And I remember thinking that sucks like that. And then now we're talking about I'm like that,, that sucks.

[58:16] That would be such a bad feeling to have. And I wonder if. He'd have done it if he'd have had his mates with him. I wonder how, but I don't know. The injury might be debilitating, that he might not run again, he might not run for the rest of the year. But I also wonder. Because I had like my. Left knee. In another world. Definitely could have. I could have pulled out my feet. Not great still, and I wonder if it's certain points. I just wonder how strong the presence of people was for me to

[58:49] actually get me through it despite listening to it all. What's coming through? And if you're listening along, you know, to Liam here now in all I keep hearing is this is a team F This is a team event, Yeah. It just it just sounds. Like you can do it on your own. You can. It just sounds like it's so much more. One, enjoyable, but two, easier. Yeah. Not that it's easy, but maybe more easier as a team event because, yeah, and you seem

[59:21] to have got so much more out of it the way you're talking about it because of that. Yeah, I will. I'll go forward now from this and look, I've got other things that I'll, I'll, I might bring up in Saturday's episode when we do it 'cause there's a couple of other event type things like from an event organisation perspective that I wouldn't mind throwing into the mix. But from a personal perspective now, putting a, putting a full stop on the. Miler this. Miler. To set that goal back. In November and sign up for it

[59:54] to complete it. But within that bracket, to have met Nick and Holly and to have them become such a huge part of that experience. To get to do 100 KS with my best mate, which when we only thought we might share maybe 20 KS together at the beginning. To get and look, we didn't even talk that much really like it was a lot of it's just like a group run though. It's it's, it's better with

[01:00:25] people, you know, but. On the Sunday when we were both lying in bed, you know, there is a there's a just a laughter of, Oh my God, we just finished a mile race. And then also to have that big chunk with Alana. Yeah,. I like it's I'm, I'm stuck. I'm beyond happy. Yeah, well. Beyond and you should. Be too beyond happy and I've got and the other thing I've I've gotten so many messages from so many different people in the beginning the.

[01:01:00] It's our little community. Mate, But they're an awesome bunch. They really are an awesome bunch of people that I think. Run for the right reasons. And compete in these events for the right reasons and get around one another for the right reasons. And like, you know, Bacon.. Yeah,, yeah. Bacon sent me a message. And this is for people who don't know, former Bondi Rescue fellow who now lives over in Scandinavia and is one of the best swim runners, swim runs, whatever that. Yeah, whatever that racing. Is called where you run ridiculous distances. It's a long way too and swim

[01:01:30] ridiculous distances. Bacon sent me a message and he just said it's so easy to get to go into what's next, It's so easy with to just start looking at what comes around the corner, he said. Mate, just enjoy this, be satisfied, revel in it, really take it in what you've done and whatever's next will come. But try not to put this in the background, it just takes some time it takes. Some time and I'm and I am trying to do.

[01:02:01] That and Brit Kaling, another person who reached out early and often and throughout the training process, said the same thing. She's like, you know, she's like you, now at mile finisher and. your body needs rest now. Yeah. Well, Trent. was. Messaging during the race too and I said mate you might have some work cut out next week. I haven't. I haven't booked in to see. Trent and Brit, the team, but yeah, man, it's cool. OK, if there's someone sitting there and they're on the fence going, I've kind of dabbled with the idea I'd like to go. I haven't.

[01:02:31] I haven't done 100K. Maybe I've run 50? What's your advice? Do it. Should you go straight to the big dog or would? You in. Hindsight what advice would you give to someone who's sitting there right now kind of playing, toying with the idea I. People. Because when I told people that. I hadn't done the 100K and went straight to the mile. They're like, whoa. I know me. And I know if I'd finished 100K.

[01:03:03] My brain would instantly go. Well, I got to do the Miler next and. That's not to say I'll never run. 100K but just the way my brain works. I knew that if I'd I'd run the 50 twice, I knew if I did the 100 I'd want to do the Miler so. I'm going to do it. Let's just do it. And I had the opportunity again to share the experience with it, and as it turned out, all these other people as well. If you're thinking about doing it, do it. If you don't finish, you'll learn stuff. If you do finish, you'll still

[01:03:35] learn stuff. And I think. This whole running boom that we're all going through with people signing up to halves and fools and whatever else and backyards. Do it. Why wouldn't you And for what? Because the threat of it's it's going to hurt, it's going to feel bad, it's going to be sore, you're going to get tired. Yep, all that stuff. You could not do it and feel none of those things. But then and not to get too deep and philosophical, but then why you're here?

[01:04:07] Why if you're not, if not to go and experience all this sort of stuff, what's what? What's the point? I mean, you can have a, you can have a fine existence doing nothing and experiencing nothing and feeling nothing but. If the opportunity. Presents and if you're physically capable of clicking a mouse and entering yourself into an event, and then you're going to show enough commitment to at least get to the start line, why not just do it?

[01:04:38] You'll the worst thing is. You'll you might. Not finish and you'll learn some amazing lessons. Maybe you've. Given me some inspiration after saying all that, Liam, I've got by the way, I. Will say I've got other little things I want to talk about from an event perspective about this race for Saturdays. Yep,. But we'll get any. More notes before we No, you got we. want you to get everything off your chess, Liam. No, it's fresh, honestly. I do have a question, but we can

[01:05:10] hit this in Saturdays and I'm interested to get your thoughts about whether or not it is worse to DNF or DNS. This was the very first. Conversation we had. Let's go now. You want to go now? So this is the very first conversation we had. During the Miler. Ed, Gus and I on the start line. And I have just. Made the start line after needing a portaloo visit. Nerves. What's worse? DNF. ING or DNS ING failing to start or failing to finish.

[01:05:44] I don't have an answer for you. It was a deep question. That got us through the 1st probably that half an hour. That's kind of. What get makes your tick out there right this is we. Look where I was. And what was the consensus? Well. Where we landed, I. Think was that it was worse to DNS because at least if you turned up. But what happens if? But what? Happens if you actually turned up and you really, know I, can't do a, I'm not going to be out like through injury or something, but do you know that?

[01:06:17] Or are you just telling yourself that? OK, and again, this is This is why it. Lasted half an hour. Well, we don't ask half an hour, but just quickly. It's interesting. Because I asked Holly the question. Oh yeah, What'd she say? And Holly. Said I would say. It's worse to DNF because if you DNS, you've saved the effort you might have expended and you might be able to go again the following week. But if you DNF, maybe you've already given out your effort. Maybe it's a question. We can we can put in the bank and ask future guests. It's a good one.

[01:06:49] Interesting 1. I don't. I can't answer it because I don't know which way I'd the. Sweet to the 2 Alexis that finished first and 2nd in 7 1/2 hours. What the hell? How the what the what the actual hell? So what's that? 20 Let's double that. Well, it took me. Twice as more than twice as long. Yeah, they did it in 17 1/2 hours. So what time are they finished? In the middle of the night. Yeah, they finished at 7:30. PM on the early night?

[01:07:20] No., that's not right. They finished at 7:30 AM. The next No. That's not right either. What is the maths like? What did they do? 7-8 hours. They finished at midday. No, that's not right. I do. No, they finished at 1:00. AM or something 1-2? Well you're right, they finished it. Good maths. Jeez, good maths. There wouldn't have been much of A crowd at that. No the 2. Alexis finished basically yeah, just after midnight. Just one support crew Yeah, but these two Alexis from Russia are just turning up and absolutely just tearing the course apart.

[01:07:53] But yeah, overall, I think what were the numbers? I so to put A to put an exclamation mark on this. We finished. I'll give you the exact 161 KS done in 38 hours and 27 minutes. I came 249th. I believe there are about 450 starters. That's bloody awesome. And 113. Odd DN FS and that's less DNFS. Than I thought they would be. That told. Me.

[01:08:25] Not how easy it was to pull out, but how and not even I'm not I'm not trying to. I am. Please don't think I'm trying to shame anybody that had to withdraw from this race because again, if I'm out there solo and I don't have my wife and I don't have Ed and I don't have Nick and I don't have that sport team, I'm probably a DNF-er too. Hey, shame me because I probably. DNF it so you're you're welcome to shame me I. Am again, Miler, Tick. Do you know what's exciting for us, Courtney though? Yeah, it's a big moment for the podcast.

[01:08:56] Why? Because one of us is committed. To something. Got to the start line and finished the damn thing. That's a first. We'll pick up more. We'll pick up more on the Saturday, but. I do want to say a sincere thank you. I had so many people reach out during after before the race and people and like, again, I think the thing you and I do really well, Courtney, is we do speak to the average runner. And I think sometimes with all the high elite level performances that are getting

[01:09:27] around in the world of running these days, the average runner can kind of be forgotten a little bit. And I think on the podcast, what the feedback I've got is that both of us do a really good job of keeping the average runner in mind. That's nice. Well, congratulations Liam, mate.