GOLD COAST MARATHON SERIES - MINDSET, MISTAKES & MOTIVATION

[00:00] In The Beginning runs the Gold Coast Marathon. We're counting down, we're following along, and the specials continue — no Courtney Atkinson this week, which, about time we got rid of him — sorry, dead giveaway, you can take the girl out of radio but you can't take the radio out of the girl, moment of seat-freeze there. Courtney's away this week with duties for the wonderful company that is Suunto, somewhere near Lightning Ridge, so he's not involved today. But as you just heard, Bronte Langbroek's in the house, and the masterful coach, the best in the

[00:32] business, the queen of Lace Up Running, Benita Willis. How are we? Hey, good, going really well. Well, we're in your hands today, because it's time for an update on Gold Coast Marathon prep — nine weeks as at time of recording. We're counting down. Let's start with you, Bronte — how are you travelling? Sorry, if you hear rattling in the background, it's because we've got little Max here in the studio too, Benita's young fella, who's just

[01:04] so keen to be part of all this — a future runner. So, at time of recording I'm one day after a half marathon, the Gold Coast Running Festival — they asked me to run it, which was very nice, though maybe I wish they hadn't, based on the course. Very hilly, very hot around the back of Robina, running down the Robina Parkway, and it wasn't a great performance from me.

[01:35] I think my coach might be a bit disappointed, but mainly it was a good test before the marathon, because I did everything wrong — came out too fast, gassed myself, and I've been feeling the ramifications of that all day today and yesterday. Have you seen the numbers from the run? I haven't, but I can imagine. It's a hard race, though.

[02:05] Deceivingly hard, yeah. I think I was probably a bit unprepared for what it was going to be like. But just to give context — Benita wants me, and this is my whole issue and what I need schooling on today, to run slower. I know you want me to run slower, and I think yesterday was a good reminder of why, because I came out of the gate at like 5-minute-K pace. I'm pulling up the graph now, Benita.

[02:36] I saw the overall pace of that run and thought, that's not too bad. But sometimes learning the hard way actually helps, because if you do that in a marathon it's heaps worse — it's such a longer race. That's what I thought too, actually — it was hard, it wasn't fun, but it's a good lesson that what you're teaching is right and important, because it just didn't work running that fast, let alone doubling it.

[03:06] I just wouldn't be able to, I'd be gassed. So — that run aside, Benita, how has Bronte been going with the training you've prescribed? She's been going awesome. I've looked over all her training, and Bronte, you do everything perfectly — if you need to move something, you move it and it fits in well. I barely even hear from Bronte, she's written a few comments, but yeah, she's doing her strength and toning with her PT and Pilates as well, which is

[03:39] really important. But getting the runs in — we had an optional extra run this week that she didn't do, which is fine because it was optional, and I don't always want people doing too much. So it's good to be able to pull back if you want to, especially with those intervals. This is exactly why you should be raising this, because there are people out there like you running their first marathon who don't have access to a coach like Benita — they just think, I need to run, so they go out and run sessions

[04:11] on their own. What, two or three weeks into this programme? As Benita said, and I bumped into you in the office after week one — you'd run an interval session for the first time ever. How did that go? Very kind of you to put it that way — I attempted an interval session, and I think I finished it and sent Benita an email saying, Benita, I hate intervals, I hate them, I don't know why. I think it's, again, what we talked about in the first

[04:43] episode — I just love to go out and run the distance I've been assigned. But something about having to hit certain lengths at certain paces, my brain just struggles with it. Is that a common reaction? Yeah, I think as people get older and start enjoying the longer races, the first thing a lot of people cut is interval sessions. So there are plenty of people who just love running, just go for a run, which is fine. But if you want to

[05:15] improve, interval sessions really help with the slower pace and longer races too. But we're only doing them every second week — I don't want you dreading this programme every week, feeling like you hate this session. We'll always mix it up. But you've done really well with it, and you do have speed over the shorter distances — a lot of people in your situation only have one gear, their jogging pace, but you actually have different paces and good speed over different distances. I think it'll improve

[05:46] you out of sight just doing them every second week. I agree, I know I need to, I just have to do it. Is there — to that point though — is it a bit like asking someone to learn to like a food they don't enjoy? Is there a way to learn to like intervals? Not really, I think — you have to push yourself pretty hard, harder than marathon effort, in an interval session. It's like running flat out for a 1500 or a 5K every week,

[06:17] and I know I don't love it either — when I was running 80K a week with the pram, with Poppy when she was young, intervals were the first thing I cut. I was doing harder runs, but not intervals. I think it's just because they hurt that bit more, but they're the one thing that speeds up improvement fastest. It's nice to hear that, because I thought I was alone in finding intervals hard — I didn't realise they're generally disliked.

[06:49] That makes me feel better. But do you feel good at the end of them? You can, but it's one of those things where you can feel a bit sick at the end of intervals, whereas after a 20K run you'd probably feel fine. Okay, so that's normal? Yeah, definitely. See, I'm a rookie at this — I thought you're meant to love intervals and they're meant to be easy, but they're meant to be hard. They are meant to be hard, but you've got to enjoy it too — you're not supposed to feel

[07:19] sick every time after intervals. It is harder running, but then the recoveries are really slow, a walk or slow jog, whereas with longer sessions you're running longer but slower, more within your comfort zone. Have you found — I find the runner's high kicks in a lot more, in a bigger way, on a long slow run, it always feels great, you enjoy it. But the endorphins for me on

[07:51] a hard session where I feel horrible, hurting, whatever — that comes later. I probably feel the runner's high during long runs, but from harder runs it comes after, once you've completely gassed yourself and you're wrecked, and then think, glad that's kicked in now. But yes, I agree, that's very true. So aside from not liking intervals, how have you found the rest of the training?

[08:21] It's been great — it's fitted in completely with what I was already doing before signing on with Benita, continuing strength training with a PT. I think that's definitely helping with not getting sore — today's probably the first day of the whole programme I've been sore, but I'll blame the hills of Robina Parkway. Well, you're twenty-four hours out from a half marathon. Yeah, so that's expected. Did some Pilates, then

[08:52] stretched it all out. I was going to ask — on my programme I've got a run today, 35 to 40 minutes — should I do that, or is it too soon after the half? If you're a bit sore, we wouldn't do that. Great, so a good option would be walking, swimming, elliptical, or just resting easy. Anything I can do. It sounds like I'm really jealous of how well you two

[09:23] are working together — everything sounds like it's going really well. Before we get to my disaster — have you learned anything in these first three weeks about running and training compared to how you were approaching it without a coach? I definitely feel more accountable, which I really like — the idea that somebody's banking on me doing my part for the process to continue. Though I feel bad, I've been writing comments and notes.

[09:54] I didn't realise you were writing essays — total teacher's pet, I'll start writing notes too. No, but it's been really good, and I think that's because I was already kind of in a programme, so it's been an easy switch, not derailing at all — and learning that about intervals has genuinely changed my mind about them, which I probably wouldn't have thought to ask in our first chat.

[10:24] There you go. And with you, Bronte, we're doing that easy switch from the programme you were on, gradually increasing as we get into harder runs and intervals, and then we'll have an easy week coming up too, because you need a whole week just to recover before the last stretch. That'll be hard for my brain to accept — reduce? Doesn't the competitive side of me think, well, I'm going to lose all my progress?

[10:54] No, no — it'll still be plenty of jogging, just nothing hard, and a bit less volume, but everything on the same days. Amazing. Sometimes people make that mistake, getting to maybe three or four weeks out and starting to feel really tired,

[11:25] because they're on that improvement curve and just want to keep going harder and harder, which is great, you're so motivated — but we have to be careful not to peak way too early. I think you've made a really interesting point there, because that mindset is common among people who've played a high level of junior sport and are now finding running at whatever age they're at. How important is that easy week —

[11:56] not a taper, because we're still nine weeks out — but incorporating easy weeks into your programme, whether structured or on your own? I think it's really important, both for your body to absorb the training and mentally too. Sometimes you're doing this marathon, training's going great, and you just keep piling more and more on — but you want to get there without injury, mentally fresh and pumped. Easy weeks can line up with, say, running a half three to five weeks out, so we'd go easy, do the half, then easy for three or four days either side. But it can also just be a structured plan — say if you get asked to do another race, a half

[12:26] marathon, there are plenty of races three to five weeks out you could use like that too. More opportunities to be invited — I know, right, I've already paid for the next one, it's a 30K trail race.

[12:56] So — nine weeks out, how's your mindset? Probably if you'd asked me that a week and a half ago, before Liam and I on radio had a bit of a break, I think I was getting to that fatigued stage of loving running but also not wanting to go for the run. We've had a week off now, caught up on sleep, and I feel better again. Nine weeks doesn't sound like a lot, but it also does.

[13:31] I don't know, I'm in that stage where I've got to knuckle down and keep going with what we've been doing — it's still that ungraspable length of time, a bit over two months out, so you could still bail on it, technically. I know — one of my girlfriends is bailing, actually, she told me that last night. And after the half marathon,

[14:01] where I felt like I didn't do great, I thought, well, I'm not bailing, I'd never bail — but I'm at the point where nine weeks out, the most I've ever run is 25K, so how am I going to run 42 kilometres? Benita, I don't know if you've researched this, but over the course of your coaching experience, is there a common quitting point in the lead-up to a marathon — eight weeks out, four weeks, one week — a point where people are more likely to

[14:33] quit? I don't know for sure, but I know a lot of these big races hold spots in the half so people can downgrade. So there must be a lot of people who go from the marathon to the half, or the half to the 10K, so races don't sell out those spots. Interesting — so they expect it too, it must happen at a lot of races everywhere. Can we get back to Bronte's training? She's flying, she's got an easy week coming up, and then what's

[15:05] the next couple of weeks look like for her? Another one of those interval sessions. I'm ready — I've reframed my mindset around intervals. And then around the Gold Coast 30 we'll probably have an easy week — that's coming up fairly soon. And we're looking at getting to a specific long run — I'd say the longest she'll run is not over 35K, maybe even a bit less. If you can run anything over 30K, around 30K,

[15:35] you'll be fine for the marathon. So every second week, whatever week has an interval session gets a short easy long run, and the next week is all jogging with a longer, harder long run. I've pencilled in a marathon pace of about 6:25 per K, which is roughly a 4:30 marathon, but that's a complete guess — normally for beginners I don't even put paces on the long runs, but I think you're a bit

[16:06] better than a true beginner. But it's fun to look at some paces for the long runs, even though they'll feel very slow compared to your half-marathon pace — just something to keep in mind during those sessions. I've really got to try to slow down. What does having an actual marathon pace to think about do for you?

[16:38] Yesterday I really appreciated the importance of a slower marathon pace — even after our first chat, when I asked why I couldn't just go out and run as fast as I could. Being in a race atmosphere yesterday, which I imagine the marathon will feel like too, and not running a good enough race, has reset my mindset about why those slow runs and that pace, even though it feels slow, are necessary for 42

[17:11] kilometres. We might save that for another day — Benita, on race-day experience and the actual vibe of race day: the number Benita just gave you as a projected marathon pace is essentially what you ran in the half yesterday, just at an easy effort — you ran the half in 1:50, not going out at 5:20s at

[17:42] the start. Have you ever run over 30K before? I haven't — 25 is the most, on Easter Saturday. So the 30K race in three weeks will be the amazing — everything from here on, past 25, is a new frontier. Incredible. Yeah, when you finish, I look back at Bronte this time last year, running 25 building to 30K, and think, where's the medal? It's at home, it'll be in studio tomorrow, don't worry.

[18:13] We like to adore our medals. I always think too, within a marathon prep, you don't run quite as well in halves as you'd expect — everyone's different, very few people PB a half in the middle of marathon training. I never used to — I'd run well off my half PB when training for a marathon. So for this next 30K race, use it as practice for the marathon rather than going flat out the whole way. Did you think of that yesterday when

[18:43] you were running — in our first chat you said prepping for a half is completely different from prepping for a marathon. That did come to me in some of my darkest moments yesterday. What did you need to tell yourself again? Well, while Bronte's flying — three weeks into the programme and everything looking rosy — on the other side of the coin, if you haven't kept up with the episodes, I got injured literally in week one. We finished week one and I sent Benita a

[19:15] message saying I've hurt my calf. This came off the back of not recovering properly from Kanangra, we think — the elevation there. I went out for the longer Sunday run building in the first 12K at 5:30 pace and then accelerating, and in hindsight I should have stopped after 7K when I first felt the calf, but I finished the 22 or whatever it was, and knew it was going to

[19:47] be a problem for a couple of weeks. Since then we've gone from a week of about 55K, to a week of 10K, to last week's 24K. The good news is the calf's actually feeling fine now — I did the right thing and went to the physio and all the rest of it. But my question, Benita — I want to talk strength training with you in a sec — is when do I seriously reassess, or when do you as the coach

[20:22] reassess what I'm aiming for? A week ago I was thinking, if Benita says let's just go for a sub-3:30, I'm fine with that, I was that flat about it — my calf, everything. The main thing is that it's feeling good, and what I always look for is getting you back into full training — I wouldn't put pressure on times until then,

[20:53] and we're probably a few weeks off that. So I've got a couple more weeks of just building back to full training. From a catch-up perspective — last week the physio, Liam, at Gold Coast Physio said no back-to-back hard training, and to bring in some cross-training. You might find this interesting — on days I run, that's actually the day he wants me doing strength training, because you won't tear the calf doing strength work at the gym,

[21:24] it'll just feel fatigued and tired the next day, and that's fine — it's the back-to-back running that's the risk. A bit of background — I'm an idiot who, the first time I injured my calf, had a physio back in Sydney ask, are you doing strength training? And I said, yeah, I'm running. He said, that's not strength training. I said, but it's making my legs stronger, isn't that the same thing? No, it's not. So I now know strength training actually means weights and

[21:55] that kind of thing. So I'm doing that now, and the cross-training's been interesting — you've had me on the bike for some sessions, which I've done, but the one I wanted to tell people about was the pool session you had me do on the weekend. Have you ever run in a pool before? I hadn't. I've run around a pool — never in one. Run toward a pool, sure. No, I actually had to run in the pool, in the water.

[22:26] That sounds difficult. It was — I'll never laugh at an aqua aerobics class again, it is tough going. What's the theory behind having me do those 10 or 15 second efforts running in the pool, aside from it being non-weight-bearing? I think it just gets your heart rate up really well — I always found cross-training on the bike, unless I'm climbing a hill for thirty minutes,

[22:56] doesn't get my heart rate up very high. With pool running you need really short recoveries — whether it's 3-minute reps or 15-second reps. I like short reps because it keeps people motivated to go hard for that period and then recover, then go hard again — it keeps stimulating that. If you'd told me to run for three minutes in the pool, I'd have been done after one — no way I could've run three minutes straight in the pool. You've got to sort of — the three-

[23:27] minute ones feel more like 10K pace running, a different mindset, whereas the short ones you just go hard — I gave you the short ones because I figured you'd go hard anyway, and also because once you're midway across the pool I can't reach you. I need a visual of how this actually works — for me, you start at the wall in the shallow end,

[23:58] and run 15 seconds up the pool. Should my arms have been out of the water or in it? In the water — and you can also do it in the deep end with a flotation vest. That's probably the way I'd normally have you go really hard, but you did it in the shallow end. I didn't even think I could've put floaties on and done it that way. It works both ways, but swimming's good too — that's the way I'd normally

[24:28] do it. I'll tell you about the second part of that cross-training session in a minute, because it was even harder than the pool running. So Benita had me do three or four sets of 10 to 15 second efforts with a 15 second recovery, running in the pool. I went to the shallow end of this gym pool and started running, and by the end of three sets I had blisters and grazes on the tips of my toes from pushing off the tiled bottom of the pool — you inevitably hit the ground.

[24:58] So my toes are actually all pretty sore right now, because pushing off with effort really burns the tips of your little toes. Yeah — well, next time we'll do one in the deep end, get you some floaties, like your kids' floaties, and you can't do that.

[25:28] I can't do that in public, actually — but the good thing about the deep end is, when you're doing it properly, you're not going very far, so you look like you're not doing much. It really does look like I've done it so many times, people watching just think, what are you doing? And it's just about getting the heart rate up — same for me on the bike, road or trainer, my heart rate doesn't get very high compared to actually running, I find it hard to get it up. So that was part one of the cross-training. Have you heard of hypoxic breathing training?

[25:58] No, but I like the sound of it. This was how I had to end my cross-training session on the weekend with Benita — two hypoxic laps, go as far underwater as you can, and when you come up, swim flat out to the end. Can you explain the theory — I hope it wasn't about holding your breath, because I breathe a lot. What's the theory behind hypoxic work? I don't know all the science, but when you're holding your breath you're getting less oxygen to the body, so when you come up,

[26:28] you're already feeling depleted, and then you go hard — you get that lactic feeling. It's supposed to simulate going hard when you're already fatigued, and it's just something different from doing the same session every time. First time in a 50-metre pool I went about 20 metres underwater, came up and swam pretty quick to the end for me — after the recovery, sixty seconds or so, the second underwater lap I maybe went 5 metres,

[27:00] and then swam hard for another 10 metres and I was knackered. That was really tough. I find hypoxic swimming so hard — you can do lap after lap of it, or 50-metre flat-out freestyle sprints, though I never love that because I'm not a swimmer and a lot of runners don't even like the pool. But the hypoxic stuff breaks it up and makes it a bit harder, and it doesn't matter if you're a weak

[27:30] swimmer, because it's really about working the aerobic system. It's about keeping the body training hard without doing something that'll hurt your calf — the elliptical, for example, is probably too much pounding, so there's a fair bit we probably can't do. It's funny — all the exercises you're now prescribing to protect my calf are the exercises I imagine old people doing. You just have to accept it,

[28:00] the aqua aerobics guy — but look at them, they've been doing aqua aerobics and using the elliptical for years and they don't have calf problems. Exactly. Have I told you, Benita, that when I book in for a physio appointment now — this is the same physio crew I went to a couple of years ago — the running joke at the physio now is, oh, Liam's booked in, what for? Probably his calf. I've now got a reputation in the physio world here on the Gold Coast for having calf

[28:30] problems — I'm basically known as the calf guy. What did it feel like seven K into that run — was it a similar feeling? I knew it straight away, I'd had problems before — the previous injury, when I missed the Gold Coast Marathon two years ago, tore during a warm-up, I felt it go and thought, that's not good, and that was about six weeks out. This time it was just a strain,

[29:00] thankfully, just a strain — but I know I should know better, that if I let my strength training slip and don't recover properly, from something like Kanangra, I'm going to have problems. As much as I'd like to think I'm still a 21-year-old with an invincible body, if I want to keep running I need to be practical about it. Which brings us to strength training — we've had

[29:31] some listener messages asking, what's Benita's take on strength training, how should we be incorporating it if we're not already? What's your overall attitude toward strength training? I think when you're in your 20s you can get away with a lot — late nights, no strength training, just running as much as you want. But as you get older strength training becomes more and more important — still important in your 20s, but through your 30s, 40s, 50s, everyone I work with does some form of

[30:02] strength training. I can set some things, but I think the best way is to work with someone who understands running and can set it for you specifically. I know a lot of people won't have access to that, but even with a few weights at home you can get a lot done in 15 to 20 minutes, twice a week. If you can't afford a PT or don't have your own programme, I can set something, but the best way is to have someone else help, so you get the

[30:33] right weights for what you actually need. From a frequency perspective, obviously age matters — but for someone like me, 40 years old, ignoring my injury for a second, how often should I be doing strength training generally while training for a marathon — twice a week, three times? Outside of marathon training I'd do it probably two or three times, plus a bit of Pilates or core work on a few

[31:05] other days. But when you're training for a marathon, a couple of times a week at least — you just can't stack that many extra sessions on top of running volume. So it's really about building strength outside marathon-training blocks, and then maintaining it during. Two sessions a week would be good, and that's roughly what most people I work with do — some supplement with Pilates, some do their own strength at home, others have a PT, like Bronte's twice-weekly sessions.

[31:38] But as you get older it just becomes so important. It's one of those things I've got the gear at home for, I know what I want to do strength-wise, but in my 20s I probably didn't do it properly, didn't do enough of it — and I think it's become even more important with the super shoes. I think the super shoes really can hammer your calves, so you've got to be careful and have that strength in your body to handle wearing them

[32:10] and to recover from them. What did you run your half in yesterday? Cloud Monsters — the second time I'd run in them. Are they considered super-shoe-adjacent? They're built for half marathons and up, longer distances — and it's interesting you say that, because since I started running in them my calves have been hurting for the first time. Why do you think that is?

[32:42] I've heard about those specifically — it's important, because coaching as many people as I do, I've heard a lot of things about them. We just have to be really strength-trained to handle it. What is it about that shoe that's more impactful on the calves? I have no idea — let me Google quickly. It's not a carbon-plate shoe, but it has a nylon speed board.

[33:14] I love that, I could feel it coming through, I was bouncing off that board. Right, so the On Cloudmonster doesn't have a carbon plate, it has a speed board made of nylon,

[33:44] but still has that intense rocker to the front, the same propulsion mechanism you get with the fast racing shoes. So — strength training basically, during a marathon prep, is about maintaining it — the real focus is outside your training blocks. The other takeaway is to find someone who can help you build a specific programme, because saying 'strength training' generally isn't enough — you need to focus on, say, calf strength specifically because of how you run. It wouldn't work to hand out a blanket strength programme to everyone,

[34:14] because people run differently — heel strikers, forefoot strikers, all sorts — so it's hard to prescribe the same thing for everybody. Just so you know what I'm currently being prescribed by Liam the physio — I'm on the Smith machine doing isometric holds, pushing as hard as I can and holding for 30 seconds, sets of those. And the other one is,

[34:44] I can't quite remember how to describe it, but still on the Smith machine with about 10 kilos either side, a lunge with a push-up through the front foot. Does that make sense? Yeah, I can picture it — all that weight going through the front foot, the back leg just there for stabilising. So the heavy stuff at the gym on run days, and body-weight work at home on non-running days. Anything else you think I should add to that?

[35:15] No, there's a lot of science behind doing strength training on run days, or on session days, too — making the hard days hard and the easy days easy, that works really well. But also, with what you're getting from Liam — a lot of coaches, myself included, are very good at coaching running, but not necessarily qualified in strength coaching. So it's good as a coach to work with people you trust who are good at that,

[35:46] or if someone tells me who they're seeing, I can say, yeah, that's a good one. It's good to have that communication with the physio too — you had an injury, you went to Liam, and I work a lot with Brad Beer at POGO — Brad lets me know what to prescribe, and I've been asking you what Liam suggests, because I'm not a physio either. Working with treatment professionals like that helps — if you've got an injury and aren't sure what it is, a sports doctor's the best place for diagnosis, and then they work with me to get you back to the point where I can start setting

[36:19] proper training again, and we're on our way. Bronte, do you know what I'm really enjoying, and I found this with Courtney and now with Benita too — unlike us in radio, who'll give opinions on anything, whether qualified, justified, or even asked for — nobody's ever asked for our opinion on anything, and yet we jump on radio every day and give one anyway. Well, that's your opinion, and I'd like to put mine forward after you finish talking. The interesting thing about what Benita just did is

[36:51] she said, straight up, you're talking to an expert — I'm not one, I'm not going to tell you how to recover from this injury, I can coach your running, but I won't wade into areas outside my expertise. Courtney does something very similar — whenever people have asked him for advice on how to train for something specific, he's said, I don't know how to train you to run this, I know how to train myself, at my speed, in my body, but I couldn't coach you, Bronte, to

[37:23] run this marathon. In our first chat I felt like I was in trouble with the principal — he said, I'm not the trainer, I'm the coach — even though he'd be well within his rights to offer an opinion.

[37:23] he'd be very good at it too, but we're similar in the sense that we're not going to just say what we think if there's someone better placed to help. That's very responsible, very big of you both — that's why they do what we do and you'd be terrible at radio.

[37:53] Sounds a bit boring — too boring for radio, you'd be — no, you have people's bodies in your hands, and it's very understandable you won't tell us to do something without the right backing for it. We appreciate that. We could take a leaf out of that. Can I just quickly say, on my mindset about all this — I like that you've told me I've got a couple more weeks until I'm back to full training and then we can reassess, because what's been tough

[38:23] for me this past week, while the calf was still really hurting, and for anyone out there with an injury right now or recovering from one, they'll know what I mean — it's the hopelessness of it. I don't want to overstate it, but it's a real low. Running doesn't pay my mortgage, it's not my job, but it's what I love doing, and not being able to do it — my wife's hilarious, when I come back from these recovery runs, she

[38:54] knows how the calf's feeling just from how I've walked through the door. I've come back from some of those runs early, and before I've said anything she's gone, oh no. It's written all over your face how the run's gone. I came back from one on the weekend and she literally announced to the whole family, everybody relax, Liam's not going to be a grumpy shit, the run went well. But the hopelessness of training for something you want to be prepared for — I know what it's like to get to

[39:25] a start line underprepared, and what it's like to get there prepared, and I want to get to this marathon start line prepared. From a headspace perspective, I know there are broader horizons ahead, so I'm okay. But for people out there — it's not your job to coach minds, but how do you talk people's attitude through a programme when things aren't going well?

[39:56] Really good question. I think as a coach you need to help more when things aren't going well — for someone like Bronte, who's going really well, she probably doesn't need as much emotional support from me. But it's really important for people to stay positive, to look at how far they've come, and reassess and move forward. You've always got a goal, but you have to be willing to reassess it. And running's one of those things where you can't keep dwelling on what happened two weeks ago or a month ago — what you really want out of a race might

[40:26] come in one or two years' time, not necessarily in nine weeks. It's important to stay positive and look at how far you've come in your life rather than thinking, what if I hadn't done that race in Tasmania, what if — because you can't think like that, you've just got to look forward. And it's important to have someone who understands what that's like, because it's brutal — and hard on partners of runners too,

[40:56] it really is. Talking about your wife, I totally get that — and from the people I work with, a lot of their moods are centred around how their running's going. I love the idea that anyone listening with a similar dynamic with their partner can hear this and think, it's not just me, this is what every runner goes through. It's so consuming, it's my biggest personality trait at the moment — what happens after nine weeks, who am I without this training?

[41:28] The next race, probably — we just move the goalposts. The other thing I'll say, from a headspace point of view, since I'm focused on rehabbing the calf and getting back to full training, and also trying to stay positive about it — I'm fighting the inevitable comparison trap, what's the phrase, comparison is the thief of joy. London Marathon, Boston Marathon, Ballarat Marathon — I've got friends who've

[41:59] been racing all these and posting amazing PBs, and I don't know if it's been good for me consuming all of it, because it's put in my head, well, I want to run a PB too, instead of just focusing on what I actually need to do right now. It's really hard — I watched the London Marathon on TV last night, and followed Ballarat Marathon too, though our house is getting renovated because of the cyclone so we had too much else going on to go. But yeah, followed

[42:31] Boston too. And it's one of those things where you just want to be in other people's shoes, doing what they're doing, and it's so hard. But everyone listening, remember your time in running comes, your day comes, and you won't always have brilliant days or the ideal prep — but if it's in your life for years and years, you will get those brilliant days, those fantastic races, just not every race and not every prep. Looking back at my career over almost 20 years, I

[43:02] had way more hard times than pinnacle moments — not that it's a career for any of us, but the point is, you remember those highs and pinnacles, but it's really about the journey. Think of it like a rollercoaster for everyone — it's never smooth, but stick with it long enough and your day will come.

[43:34] Exactly — and the hard times probably make the good times even better. All right, let's not get too soppy, group hug. I think that's a perfect place to wrap up. Benita, Lace Up Running, the great Benita — she's amazing. Benita Willis in studio, thank you so much, and thank you to your little fella Max, who's been incredibly patient through all this — he kept quiet as long as he could. Bronte — I'm so happy your prep is going so well. Thanks, you stick with it.

[44:04] I will, and you enjoy your boring old rehab — aqua aerobics and living on the elliptical. Thanks again everyone for listening. If you're on your own marathon journey, feel free to flick us a comment — if you've got questions for Benita or Bronte or myself, send them through, we'll answer as many as we can as we go. If you've got friends running the marathon who'd benefit from this, whether they're a first-timer like Bronte or have a time in mind like me, or someone injured who needs to hear it's all going to be okay, share the podcast. We're having a great time, and we'll see you next week.