One Week Out: What's Actually Changed About Road Racing | EP 92

[00:00] In the beginning, episode 92 — and most importantly, one week out from the ASICS Gold Coast Marathon. Courtney. One week and one day. Now, that one day makes a difference. Liam, you're in the taper — every day now makes a difference. I loved your stand-alone solo marathon episode you dropped on Wednesday. Did you listen? Yeah, yeah, I hope everyone enjoyed it. It was different. What do you think? I didn't listen back, didn't even have time. There would have been a lot. Yeah. Oh, look, but I think — look, I know you, and we sit down and

[00:34] do this every week. So for me it was kind of like the podcast, but not having my microphone up. But I think for people who are following along, they're invested in you. They are. And I guess it's the feeling I had leading up to the miler — there were a lot of questions, I got a lot of messages, Courtney. People were fans of you when you were an elite athlete, and people are still fans of you now, and they're really

[01:05] invested in how you're going to go in your first ever marathon. Well, let's say we don't disappoint, Liam. But I do want to — we are one week out, one week and one day — I just want to know how you're feeling. Yeah, good. I mean, after that I went on holidays — when I say holidays, we just went up north a bit and cruised around. You know what holidays are — that's the one thing you've talked about back from your professional racing career.

[01:38] When you're in sport, consistency and routine matters, because you think a holiday is a holiday, but you actually come back and things are sore. I was doing a bit of four-wheel driving, getting bucked around in the car, I was on a boat for a while getting bucked around, then it was a long drive home. And you know what — I'm actually sorer this week from doing nothing than I am from when I was actually running. And I obviously missed some of the Swift sessions

[02:09] I do on the bike in between, which is my good active recovery. So in effect, you think you're away taking rest, but I actually feel worse for having done that. But you've got to do that as well. You do. A friend of the pod, long-time supporter, Kelso — we might as well jump into this one now, we've got so many, and we're going to try and hit a lot of questions in this episode because we've been a bit backlogged. Kelso wanted to ask, given the gap from this — what next weekend will be as a race for you — how long since you raced

[02:42] professionally, and he wanted to know about the changes. Changes in running — yeah, I'm just trying to think, we're talking road running. I haven't ridden — I haven't done a road running race since possibly back in my Olympic prep. So what are we talking, 2012? That's more than fourteen years, Kelso — going back towards fifteen years ago.

[03:12] Since I'd done any kind of quick road running, the biggest difference I can tell you from that time is you generally only got what I'd call wreck runners — real runners in races. There wasn't this mass participation. The best way I can explain it: if you stood on the start line and looked around — someone wrote in the other week about it — I was that nerdy runner, I think I was.

[03:43] Sorry — yeah, I was that nerdy runner. If you looked around the start line, they were all in short PE-style running shorts, it was runners, it was uniform. But now the breadth of people who are running — I think that's the biggest change in that amount of time. But if you go back four or five years, that's probably more around the time I was racing and winning some of the main trail races in Australia. Can't remember what year it was, but things like the Six Foot

[04:13] Track — placing on the podium there, running at the front of those pointy fields. What's changed from then to now? The biggest thing is shoes. The single biggest thing that's changed is the shoes. And in the last few weeks, as I've really started wearing the Alpha Fly 3s in training sessions, I've been getting a gauge on how it interacts with the legs — I just hadn't bothered before because I wasn't racing. Now I'm starting to get an

[04:43] understanding of that. I can't wait to see the effect of it in the race. But even before the race, I can see why in training runners are able to do so much more. We did a 30K session on the weekend, stayed really conservative, but running in the softer, rubbered shoes even at the back end of that 30K, I didn't feel like we'd run 30K. I was in the gym with Tim Rigby yesterday and said the same thing — how'd you pull up from the weekend? And we both said, you know what,

[05:13] one, it helps running with a group, but two, the legs just didn't get beaten up like they should after 30K. Not that we're running that fast necessarily, but 30K is 30K — you should walk away a bit sore. I'm feeling it. Yeah, none of that. So there's the change, Kelso — the biggest shift is the shoes, it's the tech. And while we're talking about shoes and tech, big shout out to our friends at Nike, who sent us some of their All Conditions Gear range. Courtney, you're

[05:43] repping it — you're not getting lost in the trails. No, for those who can't see it, it is bright. I'm wearing a jacket — apparently it's got some down fill in it. If you're listening rather than watching, I'm wearing what colour would you call it — it's like traffic-control orange. For those of you who follow the AFL, it's GWS orange. Do they wear this colour? Yeah, this orange, it's bright, it's safety orange.

[06:13] Safety orange, it's colour five, safety is orange five. It looks sharp though. You know when we've been talking about the airflow and the new singlets coming out — this is, I suppose, their take on the down-fill one. I like it. I do as well. Sadly, I don't think I'll be able to get you one of those All Conditions singlets — the new ones that Kipchoge's been wearing in his marathons. I don't think I'll be able to get you one for the Goldie. You've got one? I don't have one. You're getting one, they've just landed.

[06:44] They're here. Yeah, they're here, stand by. I still don't know if I want to — no, we appreciate it. Talk about All Conditions gear — when I read All Conditions gear, I get a different take on it. So I've been taking mine — it's alright, it's outdoors, right? It's not just about running. No, it's not. I've been out on the boat for the first half of the week. You've been rocking the shorts. Yeah. So when you're looking for a

[07:16] pair of outdoor shorts, one of the key things you want, whether you're on boats or running or hiking, is pockets. You're on the money — pockets. So I was wearing — no, not those ones — Liam's reaching for pockets in the corner. More pockets, different shorts, but literally I was finding pockets within the pockets. Yeah, that's good. And within the deep pockets, because you don't want to lose

[07:47] stuff in the water — I'm fishing, getting off the back of the boat, jumping on and off. Pockets, safe. Then I'm putting my hand inside the pocket that's inside the pocket, and I'm finding coin pockets. There we go — pockets in pockets, Liam. It's a good thing. I've been given this All Conditions gear a good run out — good on the boat and in the water and everything else. One thing I haven't really done with it is run. Well, shout out to Nike for sending us some of this All Conditions gear — we're going to keep running it through its paces, and the first review is: pockets in pockets,

[08:20] in pockets — pockets in pockets wins, big tick. So just quickly to the marathon — one week out, a week and a day out — people listening to this might be going through their final preparations ahead of this marathon. I did want to ask you something. I know you're not going to nominate a time, which frustrates me. I'm not going to nominate a time. I think you should — regardless, I want to put it on the record, my prediction for you. What's your prediction? I think you're going to run 2:36:43.

[08:51] I think that's a good prediction — I'm putting that on the record, for the In The Beginning crew, I want them to know what I think you're going to run. This isn't a cop-out, right? No, no. I do have a bit of an issue with this whole fascination around a time — it's great to have a goal time, but the idea of I've done

[09:21] all my training, I'm at this fitness, and I'm going to run this exact time because my training's told me so — the marathon's got a threshold, you've got to run to a certain pace and all that, but I just don't think you should be dictating what you can do on race day. I agree — you're giving yourself permission to be either underdone or overdone either way.

[09:51] But in your mind, have what you'd like — maybe that's the way to look at it — but don't get so hooked, don't let the time dictate. And I think for me, it's because I love sport, right, and — full transparency for everybody today — I'm running on fumes. I'm working on about two and a half hours of sleep at the moment, and we're doing this on a Friday.

[10:21] Yep — big game last night, I commentated Brisbane versus Sydney last night at the Gabba. I got home to the coast from that at 12:30, my alarm — so I got to bed just before one, and my alarm went off at 3:30am to get up and do the radio show. After that I went to Damien Hardwick's press conference for the Gold Coast Suns, and I've come straight here. I'm running on fumes, right — but I love sport, and the thing about sport, footy, rugby league — the scoring, right there, it's not

[10:53] subjective, it's an objective result. The team that scores the most points wins. My interest in the time is because my brain wants to be able to quantify it objectively — you ran this fast, ipso facto. But the more I do it, and the more we talk, and the more I talk with other people about running, the more my brain is aligning to experience. It's how you feel on the day — how was your marathon, not how fast did your marathon

[11:25] go, but how was it for you — did you push yourself, did it feel good, did it hurt, all that sort of stuff. But — see, this is where I like where you're going with the thinking — objectively, what is the one thing in running that is objective? Time. Yes and no. I've learned enough now that when I say things like this, someone's going to call me out on it. Of course it's objective, it's a time. Yes, it is. But you don't know this weekend whether it's going to be a

[11:57] hard headwind, you don't know if it's going to be cold or hot — all of those conditions come into it, and you can't control them, right? Which means your perfect race, on your time, is dictated by other things too, correct? Right — what is objective in racing? Your effort? No — the place, the win, the loss. Oh, I see what you're saying — the only thing that's objective in the race

[12:27] is who comes first, second and third. I get what you're saying. The reason we race — yes — is not to run a time. The reason we race is to race. Now I understand I'm going to get called out here, Liam, because — well, I'm not in the race, I come 755th. Find your race, find your race within the race. If it's your mate and you know you're going to be, well, give yourself a handicap, but find the race — because if you're relying on the time, there's always

[12:58] factors that can affect it, and you're going to be disappointed. Yes, you're spot on — you can't control the race. You are absolutely spot on. Even just keeping it to marathons, think about how people who are sub-three marathoners on the coast will go to Boston and might not break three hours, not because they've run any shorter or trained any harder or been any less ready to go, but because the course is harder and the conditions are trickier.

[13:28] So I love your point — the race is a race, get past the fascination on time. I'm not trying to put this into your head, but have you thought about popping in the race, in that 35–36K range? I wouldn't say I've thought about popping, but I've considered the unknown of being at that distance with a bit more intensity than we've done in training,

[13:59] and to be really frank, I'm more worried about something popping — physically. Only because I was talking with somebody last night who was asking how your training's going, and we were discussing that given your background, your elite aerobic capacity and your preparation, we were hypothesising times, and we discussed the idea of

[14:29] what might happen to you in that unknown territory around the 36K mark at the intensity you're trying to run. For the average runner — the me-runner — you get to that part and you pop, you start walking. Yep. It's like pulling the handbrake, pulling over to the side of the road and walking humbly the last few Ks. What is that for you? I think in this scenario, if

[15:03] you're putting yourself more on the line than in the past, really on the knife-edge of what's too hard, then yeah, the pop thoughts creep in and you'll slow down. I don't think you'd get to a walk, but you just lose your pace and can't hold it, whether that's through energy or muscular — I mean, they're both similar to a degree. But whether it's

[15:33] purely energy, glycogen depletion, or whether it's muscular-skeletal, that you just can't handle the pace over that distance — which is probably more my concern at this stage. Given where I'm at and the training I've done, my bigger concern is just the body holding together over that distance. So my popping would be more, touch wood, something physically popping — we don't want that to happen. But if I'm in a situation where I've gone too

[16:06] hard, that'll pop me in the other way — I've gone way too hard. Just quickly on that, and we're going to jump into some listener messages because there's a lot we want to get to — Maddie Abel, do you know Maddie? Yep, a great running coach, and if anyone's interested, particularly down in Sydney, can't recommend Maddie Abel enough. She posted something a couple of days ago that I thought was really relevant for everybody at this moment — the first

[16:36] slide said, 'your friend's 80-kilometre week is built on ten years you don't have.' I love this, because she goes on to say: your mate casually drops 80, 90, 100-kilometre weeks and they're fine, they never seem to get injured, so you start creeping your volume up to match them — same long runs, same weekly load — if they can handle it, why can't you? Then your shins start aching, your Achilles, your knee, and you can't understand why you're breaking down while they're cruising. Here's the answer: you're not comparing like with

[17:06] like — they've spent ten years building a body that can absorb that load. You've spent three. I love that. Coming into the marathon, we've touched on some of this before, but I don't think I've seen it laid out that simply — you might have been running three years and feel like you've built a really strong base, but your mate might have been running fifteen. The great thing with — not just running but endurance generally — is that base builds up, there's no

[17:37] substitute, aerobically especially. So a lot of the injury stuff has more to do with load than aerobic load — it's actually bone and muscular load, but also around aerobic load, which doesn't stop. If you do the right stuff, you can build on that year to year to year, which is what I was talking about in the gym yesterday — I think the interesting thing, because I

[18:07] haven't run consistently for so many years and haven't targeted races, is that the biggest hit isn't to do with speed. Where I'm at, it's all just erosion of my threshold. The slow, easy aerobic stuff comes back and you can build on that — there are other cross-training ways to get that back quicker too. The speed, if I went and actually ran flat out, I'm not going to be running as

[18:37] quick as I was when I was 20, but the speed base is still there, it's natural, I can pick that up. But it's all of that middle ground — the threshold erosion — that's what takes time, and that's what you need patience for. And that's what we were talking about — off the back of this marathon, if I go back and keep working on that, how far back can you get, and how long does it take? That's the question. Just on that — talking about building aerobic capacity and the benefits from endurance work — I'm back in the pool at the

[19:07] moment. I'd heard through the grapevine you might even be running soon — potentially very close to a return to pounding the pavement. But I'm back in the pool, and I'm by no means a great swimmer, in fact I'm a bad swimmer. But the capacity, the lung endurance in the pool despite my inefficiencies — given I hadn't swum since the Noosa Triathlon last year, or actually not even then because I didn't do it, probably hadn't swum laps since August of last year, almost twelve

[19:39] months — the running, the prep for the marathon, has actually benefited my swimming. I've got far more capacity to get through over a kilometre in the pool than I would have had if I hadn't done that endurance training. Training's a funny thing. You're saying training helps? It's a bit like — I agree with Maddie's post, but you could actually just write it off as common sense. So many things you could

[20:09] write off as common sense — imagine if there's a branding opportunity for someone to start a brand called Common Sense, and all your T-shirts, all your merch, is just common sense. Any training tips? Common sense. How long have you been running? Ten years. How long have you been running? Three years. Oh, we're doing the same thing. Yeah, it doesn't work like that. How do you go about recovering? Common sense. I like that. Let's get into some messages, Courtney — we've got lots of people wanting to join the conversation. Yeah, well this one

[20:40] was for you, Liam — I love reading these when we get them through. Noems says: Liam, it was great to meet you yesterday at Cbus, might have been at the Titans game — this was last Saturday, the Titans' one-point win over the Panthers. What a game. Genuinely lost for words. Cbus Stadium, Heavings and Harrison's field goal to win it — it was incredible. Noems is the event security

[21:11] manager out there — always a good person to know — and had actually listened to the latest pod on the way to work that day. Last year I ran my first two half marathons and was looking to increase this year. However, in September, unfortunately I was diagnosed with breast cancer, haven't run since. Over the last month I've started getting back into the gym, working on rebuilding my fitness. One of the normal things that remained through my treatment was listening to the pod — it's helped keep the running bug alive through those shitty days. Appreciate everything you guys do. Side note, I've worked a lot of major events and with

[21:43] some very high-profile people over the years, yet my kids were so excited and impressed that I got to meet you, Liam. Oh, Noems — thank you for coming over and saying hello. I honestly, because I was there doing the sideline for Triple M and NRL, I thought I was in trouble when security came over — I thought, am I standing in the wrong spot? But it was so lovely that Noems came over and said g'day in high-vis, and it wasn't enough — but yeah, we had a bit more of a chat a bit later on. I didn't expect

[22:13] an event security manager at Cbus to be listening to the podcast. But I think that's what we're discovering — this running boom we're in has captured people from everywhere. And thank you for sharing your news about the breast cancer — that's the other thing that struck me, get out and run while you can, because you never know when something's going to hit you. Noems is fighting through it at the moment, undergoing everything she needs to. It's so cool to chat,

[22:43] and I love that your kids are excited we got to have that conversation. And look, I'm back there tonight, in fact — Noems, if I see you tonight at the Titans-Bulldogs game, come say hi again. Yeah, good luck, all the best with getting back to full health. Have you seen this one, Liam — Hyrox, and just when you thought it was safe to go back into the water — not at Bondi at the moment.

[23:13] Have you? Let's jump into this for a moment — we're going to be able to talk swimming and Hyrox. Sharks, yeah. What do you think — they're everywhere all the time, is my take. We've never been more capable as people of seeing them, because of drones and tech and all the rest of it, and there's never been an

[23:47] attack more widely reported. I believe in karma, Liam, so I don't really want to talk about it. No, but interesting — I was up on the inside of Fraser Island during the week on the boat, and it was so glassy one morning, we pulled up and were having a bit of an argument over what kind of fish to anchor up and fish for, and just as that happened I pointed out and said, I think we're in the right spot. There was just

[24:18] a small — I think it was a small bull shark or a whaler or something — swimming around the boat, and I was thinking, this looks like a really good place to jump in for a swim. Did you? No, not there, not after seeing that. But we were just up the estuary, and you know they're there, they're there. I don't have an issue with it, but this Bondi one is interesting at the moment — we went three days, as we're speaking I believe

[24:48] the beach has been closed for three consecutive days. Yeah, and again, to the lifeguards — we know a couple of the boys — and to the fella who raced straight to the woman who was attacked at Coogee, incredible stuff that they do. Let's get back to Hyrox — what is Hyrox? Swim, strength, speed — swimming meets performance, one lane, one result. I'm going to be pretty clear, I didn't look too much into this, but I did do a quick Google, I don't

[25:18] know if this is correct so let us know — but Hyrox apparently said something about this a few years back, in 2024, but it's taken until now to actually pop up. It's swim, strength and speed — literally Hyrox taking the running out and putting the swimming in. My question, Liam — do we need it? Be interesting to see how

[25:52] it works — is it in a pool? One of the posts says, 'the pool is your arena.' So you jump in — it's kind of like when we did the indoor triathlons around a velodrome, with the pool in the middle, cycling and running around the outside. But I never thought about it like this before — all of this triathlon-style stuff came on in the 80s and 90s, but hit the Olympics in 2000.

[26:22] At that time, putting those three sports together was seen as innovative, the new thing, and realistically what Hyrox has done, and maybe now Hydrox is doing, is created innovation around new multi-sports. I hadn't thought about it like that until right now, but that's the Hyrox mob — well, that would have to be it, wouldn't it? Google told me yes — in 2024 they were touting this.

[26:52] It's trademarked. Look, whether it is or isn't — I'm just going to react with gut instinct, this won't work. I do think it will work. Swimming's too hard for people, en masse? Yeah, en masse. Yes, it will — swimmers won't. I don't see it, because what worked for Hyrox —

[27:24] I think part of the reason Hyrox was a success is because you had this whole community of gym junkies and this whole community of runners — runners who liked to lift and gym junkies who liked to run — so you had two very deep pools of people to draw from to create this hybrid. And you kind of had a forefather in it with — not X Games, what am I thinking of — CrossFit Games, sorry, yep.

[27:55] I don't know if the pool of people, pardon the pun, is deep enough of people who gym hard and swim hard. I agree, it's not at the scale. And the challenge is pools aren't the scale of thousands of people running around a 500-metre circuit either, and often as people get older, a lot of them are swimming because they can't sustain running. However, I actually think the

[28:26] link between swimming and lifting is more natural than the link with running. I agree with that. So it makes more sense — let's take a different approach, at the elite level, an ex-swimmer, it seems a lot more appealing for them to go, okay, I'll do the swimming and then the lifting. I agree — assuming the lifting is upper-body, maybe lower-body's not the same, but if you're

[28:56] an ex-runner, I don't think the gym side of it comes as naturally — don't get me wrong, runners do strength, but not in the capacity you do in Hyrox, with those sled pulls. And that's not maximal lifting, you're doing it for the specifics of that, whereas in swimming there is some heavy lifting — weighted chin-ups, things like that. Cam McAvoy's got a much better chance of becoming Hyrox world champion after he finishes professional swimming than

[29:29] Andy Buchanan has of becoming Hyrox world champion. Agreed. Okay, we can agree on that and leave it there — nice, let's move on. We've got an ultra gimmick. Yes, Courtney, and you think this is a good one? So we get a lot of these sent in, and I decided a while back this space has got too saturated — the gimmick becomes the focus over the

[30:03] actual experience and event. It's all about who can have the best gimmick to attract interest and bring people to run. And I'll plant my flag on this — it's a bit like celebrities making their own alcohol, there's too many, enough is enough. But you've found one you want to talk about? I do, and hopefully this is the right audience — the most unhinged ultra marathon you'll ever see, the One-Dollar Ultra, a backyard ultra with so many layers. The organiser, Victoria, is herself a pretty crazy

[30:36] ultra distance runner, winner of the solo Atacama format. The race is that every hour you start a four-mile loop, but here's what makes it unique — it's called the One-Dollar Ultra because every hour, every loop you complete, you put another dollar in the jar. Registration cost $24, and 23 of those dollars are returned to the participants except for one — the last three digits of one of the bills is your bib number. There's no set route, so runners can go wherever they want.

[31:07] The route goes right through Times Square and up to Central Park. Runners have a tracker, there's an app, and you know they've completed the lap because they scan in at the checkpoint and back at the end of each lap. What makes this race so dynamic and fun is all the other things they've added — random draws each lap, prizes, that sort of thing. All of that aside, the core foundation, why I love it so much — even the dollar gimmick, I'm not sold on that.

[31:37] It adds to it, but it's the idea of no set route through Central Park — point to point, you get there and back however you like, and they're tracking you at the same time, so there's a way to follow what's going on and where people are going. I like it, it's organised chaos. Yes, and I think that's why

[32:10] you find it appealing — obviously the participants find it appealing too — it gives a framework to work within, but still leaves space for creativity, experience, ingenuity, spur-of-the-moment stuff, the sheer chaos of it, not just the format but the choose-your-own-adventure style — I think that's what got me, the choose-your-own-adventure of where you want to run, all that

[32:42] sort of stuff, plus the prizes and the money and all of that. You truly can't get bored, but there's still the competitiveness to it. So I love it — I think the second part is definitely what got me, the idea that you're within boundaries, like you said, but you get to do your own thing. There's a bit of lawlessness about it — I'm not sure, but the fact you're not on a set course, you just run wherever, you're part of the public, right?

[33:13] You get around all of those event restrictions. And I assume the second part is — I don't think there's an answer to this, it'll be personal preference — where's the line drawn between what's too gimmicky and what's not? In this case, for me, I nearly get a sense of nostalgia when I'm watching it, at least on socials, in the

[33:44] content — it just feels so raw, it doesn't seem like they're trying. Maybe that's what I'm trying to get at, it's a little unpolished. They just don't seem like they're trying, and to me that seems so appealing. Maybe that's the line between what's a gimmick and what's not — when it appears like they've tried too hard to look different, it doesn't work. It's when it's natural. And that's why the Barkley

[34:14] Marathons, like the whole gimmick of lighting a cigarette at the start line — it's a gimmick, but it isn't, because the guy's actually a chain smoker. So you can't fake authenticity? Yes, you can't fake authenticity, and it's important. I don't know why I get the sense this is authentic, I might be wrong, but I agree, I love it. I think you're spot on with what's appealing and

[34:46] cool about it — it's that old thing, you can't call yourself cool, that's an attribute other people need to bestow on you. You can't say I'm cool, I dress cool, or I'm a cool person — other people say that about you. If you're trying to attribute it to yourself, it's immediately uncool. This race seems cool by virtue of the participation and the way it's styled, but I don't think that person set out thinking, let's make a cool race.

[35:18] Because if they'd been trying to make a cool race, they probably wouldn't have designed what they've designed. As you started talking about that authenticity and unpolishedness, what jumped into my head was when Nike started bringing out the off-white shoes with the writing on the outside, almost still with the tag on, the red tag — I can't remember exactly, but that was a moment when Nike made a shoe that almost looked unfinished.

[35:48] It went gangbusters — suddenly everyone thought that's amazing. I think it's saturated now, they've probably pulled back on it a little. But there was that moment where something being a little unfinished, a little unpolished, not quite perfectly stitched everywhere, and everyone thought that's really cool and authentic. Well, I could debate all day where that line is — I think they call it moth-eaten running shirts, and I think it was Satisfy who

[36:19] did the first one, and it obviously worked, and other brands started jumping on the bandwagon, and then at a point it crossed over into being try-hard — but to me, this is a great thing, everyone can have an opinion on where that line is, and that line's going to be different for different people. So where the line is for one person is completely different for someone else.

[36:50] And that's what makes the world work, right — which is why you look at the tastemakers, right, that might be — actually, I'm making a note, I'm going to look at running tastemakers, because I don't think running tastemakers and running influencers are the same thing, if that makes sense. I'm going to do an investigation into this, we'll move on. Well, in my world there's a differentiation depending on which businesses you work with,

[37:22] everyone has a different — this is totally, then you talk about that line, everyone talks about an influencer, or the most direct way, an influencer gets called different things, you'll get creators, influencers, opinion leaders, and there's a whole — well, I know what you mean, yeah, and that's everyone's way of trying to move that line for themselves, because influencers are now possibly cringe,

[37:52] so we call them content creators instead, and then the line moves — but that's just kind of making your own line, isn't it? Exactly. Yeah, okay, let's keep rattling through, we've got plenty — we've been backlogged for a few weeks, so let's get through some good ones, because we do appreciate everyone who writes in, both on Spotify and Instagram, the main two channels we get people writing on. Shout out to our New Zealand

[38:22] friend Amon McGee — been listening for a while now, loves that we're across the ditch, chasing a sub-three hour marathon. I'll get it — didn't say where. Go get it. Royal — apologies, I'm going to mispronounce your surname, Puijet I think — hey guys, long-time listener since the beginning, also part of the 440 run group and friends with the Runners In The Dark crew. Liam, I believe you used to run the 440 as one of the OGs — this Saturday the 440 will be

[38:55] celebrating its 10th year. This was actually — that happened Thursday the 18th, hoping maybe you could give it a quick plug, apologies we're probably a week late to this, Royal. Have you ever run the 440? I haven't, but I know the fellas and a lot of the crew who do. Look, ten years of the 440, we're in 2026 — I'll give you my quick story about this run club, because if you run in Sydney, you know what the 440 is. Basically it's a thing, very early Saturday morning you head down to Bronte, you

[39:26] run ten laps of a fairly significant loop, ending up around seven and a half Ks if you do the full ten. I started going out to this 440 run club ten years ago, in its first year — it started in 2016, because Reedy, a friend of the pod, said I'm running City to Surf and want to give it a nudge, and he said the best thing you can do is prep for Heartbreak Hill, come down and run this 440 group with me. So in the early

[39:56] days there'd be six of us, seven of us, some big mornings there might be twelve of us, we'd roll out of the car and there'd be Noxie, who runs it, we'd give everyone a nod, say good morning, and that was it. What this has developed into is a great example of running culture — did they do a photo at the end when you first got there? Always had a photo, a little photo at the end — and this is a great example of what running culture has become, because now this is enormous, hundreds of people

[40:28] every Saturday morning. Noxie does some gratitude stuff at the start, a big welcome, and they take over Bronte Pool early doors in the morning, take over the road. It's enormous, but it's a strong community — Noxie's done a really good job being consistent and building it. It's a good lesson for us with this podcast — consistency, people want that when they're going to invest in something. So well done to the 440 on ten

[40:58] years — I love that. It helped me get my sub-60 City to Surf that year, and if I'm ever back in Sydney for a Saturday morning I'll be there. Is Noxie still going, does he do a live? I believe he's still doing his — every, what was it, 4am? I reckon it was 4:40am he started — because he's a personal trainer and would be down there getting ready to train his clients at the Bondi outdoor gym, and he'd do a little live. For Noxie it basically became about turning up, being there, turning up again, consistency.

[41:30] Yeah, they've had a great run. Turbo Turner says — we've got a question for you, Courtney — do you get bought in by other triathletes or their teams to help with pacing or race strategy, or help out with running and biking, or is it very individualised and each athlete is so different? Was just thinking of it from a footy perspective, like how the Demons brought in Matthew Scarlett as a part-time defensive coach. I like this, Turbo Turner — bringing other sports into running and triathlon is exactly

[42:01] what we love to get into here. This is good, appreciate you — you may not be able to answer this, was just pondering over breakfast and a coffee. Now, I can answer this dead straight, Turbo — the complete opposite has happened, and it's not just me, this happened in Australia with a lot of triathletes, that when we finished triathlon, we actually had no involvement with triathlon again. Really — why? I don't

[42:31] know. And that's an honest answer. No invitations, no interest on your behalf? A bit of both — I think it's a combination. In a world — and I'm not talking just about myself here, there are numerous athletes with much better credentials than me who've never had their expertise tapped, really.

[43:03] No, and I think, to answer your question, Liam, it's a combination of if you're not overt in offering, it doesn't happen. But the second part is, there's no chasing, there's probably not the want or the need there. That's interesting — because to keep with Turbo's comparison of AFL or NRL, imagine if Andrew Johns walked away from the game and no one bothered to ask him, can you help coach, can you help

[43:33] come down and do some work with our young halves, in the AFL, you know? What's been good for me is that other sports have reached out — you've done some work with other sports? Yeah, 100%. So the interesting thing is other sports reach out even today, and I'm a fair way removed from it now — there are other sports that show interest in learning different — that's so interesting — different approaches, different motivations, and

[44:03] different things, but generally not our own sport, and that's just being as transparent as possible. That's so fascinating, interesting. There you go, Turbo, all right, good one. Tanya Branson says hi — following your comments around privacy on Strava, I have a question, do you think there are ethics, for want of a better word, around adding people on Strava that you may not actually know, or commenting on people's runs you may not know? Full disclosure, this is a real-life situation for me, where I'm

[44:33] on a rural road where I've set up a bunch of segments for my own amusement, and all of a sudden I've got these super-fast runners using our roads for long runs. I've added them as friends on Strava, mainly to watch if they have good routes I'd want to use around the area, and I found myself commenting on a recent run, suggesting a shortcut or better way to go to avoid a dangerous section of road. Is that weird? It's a really interesting question, not sure of your thoughts, Courtney. My gut reaction —

[45:03] what's the community you're existing in? It comes down to a question of community. Tanya, if this is a road you've set up segments on, you're almost — I don't want to say chairperson, but the caretaker — of your segments. And if people start running those segments, I think as caretaker you're entitled to engage with them. If they choose not to engage back, you've got your answer. But I think you're perfectly entitled to engage people, particularly if they're running

[45:35] segments you've created, whether you know them or not. Yeah, I'm trying to digest what it is you're worried about, Tanya — is it about your segments, or just generally, quicker runners. You can set up private segments for yourself, so you can just compare yourself to yourself. It doesn't strike me that Tanya's worried about losing crowns or segments,

[46:08] it doesn't strike me she's worried about that — I think she's just feeling a bit awkward about randomly messaging or engaging with people's runs on Strava that she doesn't know. Tanya, for me, is it weird? No, I don't think so — not if you've got the best interests at heart. I'm always appreciative, it's a little different from something dangerous, but I love when someone sees me in an area and says, you're missing the local spot, go have a run here. I'm 100% appreciative of that.

[46:39] And the same if someone said to me, hey, you're running on that busy road, you can cut up the back through that trail — I'd say thanks. So Tanya, for mine, do more of it, because I think running, trail running especially, is such a great community, and I'd hate for fear and awkwardness to filter into it. Be open, be bold, be brave, engage with people, especially if they're running

[47:09] segments you've set up, and don't worry about adding people you don't know — that's just social media, that's just the internet. Alright, go for it, be rad, dad. Hey team, just a wreck runner, a hobby jogger who started listening to the pod this year — welcome — did my first Gold Coast Marathon last year and now I'm back again for redemption, brackets, disappointed in my time and overall training block, won't bore you with the details. Don't worry, you're not on your own there, B Rad Dad. What I wanted to ask is, are

[47:39] you going to continue the journey for Liam's Noosa Tri? I signed up for the Mooloolaba Tri earlier this year but dropped to the sprint because I was worried about the swim leg — right there with you — ended up smashing it, so I've signed up for the Noosa Tri too, and would love to continue the training journey with you if you continue the podcast series. Also big congrats to Liam on the miler, epic achievement, hope to give you a high five in two weeks at the finish line. B Rad Dad, come and find me, please, I want to high-five you. I actually messaged B Rad Dad and said, because you're doing it, yes we will be —

[48:11] we'll 100% be talking about the Noosa Tri leading up to it, whether we do a series is still in discussion, but we'll definitely be talking about the Tri as we head into it. I found something that might be good for B Rad Dad — I reckon you're probably not on your own with this. A little bit of audio I came across, my brother sent it to me, taking a shot at me — a comedian who's written a song about blokes who take up triathlon in their middle age.

[48:45] I'm — if I'm training for —

[49:43] — it's spot on, it's spot on. Training for Ironman and triathlons is a selfish pursuit, so just make sure it's working with everything else in your life. I like that, there's plenty of triathlon jokes. Have you seen the AI videos taking the piss out of triathlon, about aerodynamic gear — like wearing your drink bottle on your back, aerodynamics is everything.

[50:13] Tristan Wright, Courtney — fit for future Olympians, just brands picking up on our conversation with Liesel around Christy Coventry, the boss of the IOC, who said athletes shouldn't be paid, but under pressure has now bent — 10K from Milan. What do you mean? Yeah, they're paying — I didn't even know about this, 10K US per athlete, backdated to Milan

[50:45] Cortina — no way. Yep, but that's just America, is it? No, this is from the Olympic Committee — the Fit for the Future programme complements existing support programmes, about 14 — hang on, hang on, this is why you don't just stop at the headline, kids. Let's just step back here — it is starting from Milan Cortina, but it sounds like it's meant to

[51:19] support — the Fit for the Future programme is designed to support all Olympians with US$10,000 starting from Milan Cortina. The grant's been set up to support the career of Olympians, or their career transition. That's fantastic — well, hang on, I don't think it's that straightforward, we probably should have done some research on this. Olympians will be able to apply

[51:49] for a new grant of US$10,000 for each Games they compete in. According to the IOC, the Fit for the Future Olympian grant has been established to support Olympic athletes' sporting careers or their career transitions. A fund of US$140 million will be set aside for each Olympic Games, with athletes who competed at this year's Winter Olympics the first able to apply. So let's use Scotty James as an example — Scotty competed at Milan Cortina, he'll be able to apply for a $10,000 grant.

[52:23] Now, Scotty doesn't need it, let's be fair — around 14,000 Olympians per Games are expected to be eligible for the grant. It won't be available to any athlete who commits an anti-doping violation or violates the IOC Code of Ethics, the conditions of participation, or the Olympic Charter — so basically, don't be a drug cheat and don't misbehave. The grant will be delivered through existing National Olympic Committee structures and won't be reduced because of any existing support programmes provided by the IOC to the NOC. Some National Olympic Committees do offer prize money, though

[52:55] the British Olympic Association is not one of them — this is coming from the BBC website. So basically, you can apply for the grant, and if you don't, it stays in the fund and rolls into the next Games. It doesn't seem as straightforward as just paying the Olympians — it seems like a way around the — you know what it tells me, a little bit, because the hurdle we've talked about before was, what's

[53:27] merit-based, right? Because LeBron James doesn't need this money — so how do you put a blanket scheme in place? They're kind of putting it back in the hands of the athletes — if LeBron James wants to apply for this, it'd be embarrassing for him to have to put his name in asking for $10,000 from the IOC or the US Olympic Committee. But I'm guessing for a relay swimmer in LA, at their peak, they'll

[53:58] need this money and they should get this money. Well, that's good — there was a fair bit of debate on this, wasn't there. Yeah, huge amount of debate, as there should have been — seems like there's been some reaction. So Tristan, thanks for sending that in. And also, he said he might get the prize for the most random race — he's heading to the Philippines, maybe last weekend for a wedding, and jumping into a 10-mile, 16K race that starts at 4am because the temperature

[54:30] gets too hot up there otherwise — sounds horrible, that's too early. You're going to run in 28-degree heat and that humidity, that's true. Let's keep rattling through, we've got some more messages. Timothy McDonald sent one that's really hard to say — I'm going to pick that up in another episode, it's about lactate devices — Endurance Lab, I've already done a podcast with

[55:01] a guy who has — yes, it is hard to say — spelled A-T-H-Y-X-I, I reckon it's probably just Ethics. Ethics, yeah, they've done some — they're looking into these wearables, maybe around — I want to look into it more before I chat about it properly, and send it to a few people to see if they've heard of it, because it does seem promising if it's starting to exist.

[55:32] Okay, a bit of audio — Steve DiTullio, yes, this is a real throwback. If you're new to the podcast, or only joined in the last six months or so, early on Courtney and I examined the world of nasal strips, and Courtney bought some and made me run in them, and I've never felt dumber. I came up with a theory that's since been disproven, and unsurprisingly my half-assed

[56:03] medical theory didn't work. I predicted that nasal strips were inefficient, or just a placebo, because my analogy was that your lungs are like a toilet — a single flush or dual flush system, the system can only hold so many litres. That was just debunked. I said that whether you're breathing in through your nose or mouth, because the nasal strips were

[56:33] saying you're opening your nasal passages more — ultimately you can only get so much air in, it doesn't matter whether it comes through your mouth or your nose. Many doctors reached out and said, shut up Liam, you don't know what you're talking about. When Steve heard this, he thought of you, Liam — one of our best mailbag lines: 'do you ever go for a jog and feel your lungs filling with air but not reaping any of the physiological benefits, because your airways aren't delivering that oxygen to the rest of your system? That's what this is meant to prevent, maybe.' By the way, good to meet you.

[57:04] Look, I'm a huge supporter of nasal constriction when it comes to optimising aerobic oxygenation during physical exertion, but the second you need a higher intake, that's your sign to open up the second airway — I use an adhesive nebulising strip, which I love because it opens up the airway by a fraction of a millimetre and allows for way more airflow, brought my 5K PB down by 30 seconds last summer. I'm going to call it there. It makes me think, I like it.

[57:35] He could be writing marketing copy for one of those firms. It makes me think — is there something you believe in so much that you're hung up on, in say golf or anything, that could be anything, that you'll defend to the end even if it's probably placebo? Jeez, putting you on the spot. Let me think — I always thought that I had a

[58:09] thing when I played amateur football — I always ran onto the ground a certain way, left hand down, right hand down, both hands down. Really? Yeah, it was just — I once saw a state-level footballer do it when I was a kid watching a game, and thought that looked like a cool way to run onto the ground. Never made me play any better. It's like swimmers who slap their biceps, triceps and lats before a race, and then you see the six or eight year old swimmer trying to copy it on the blocks with their mum. You don't have that, no.

[58:40] No, I'm trying to think if there's something I believe in, because it definitely falls into this category of people who'll defend it to the end. This is nasal strips, by the way. Yeah, you'll defend it hard. Do you have anything like that? Just trying to think — I think both of us to some extent are more evidence-based, if we see evidence, that's proof. I'm not so stubborn or dug

[59:10] in on things that if I see evidence it isn't working at all, I can't walk away from it. I'm pretty hard-headed if there's no — if I can't go out and feel it making a difference, unless there's real hard evidence to the contrary. I'd probably say the shoe thing is where I'm a little bit stuck — I'm not sure yet where I land, obviously shoes are faster, and with where the tech's going, but I'm also a little hamstrung on whether

[59:43] that has implications for the function of your running, which impacts injuries. So I'm not fully sold — I don't have any hard evidence, it's just a feeling that if you're throwing rubber under you for the sake of it, maybe it's not the best thing, but there's no backing to that. I want some structure in my shoe

[01:00:14] as well. I've found where this sits in my brain, the question you're asking about nasal strips and all that. Have you ever gone to see a psychic? No, but a kinesiologist — I don't really understand what kinesiology is. But a psychic, I've never gone to see one. I think people who believe in them and go see them — that's an example of what I'm

[01:00:44] also trying to work through, because I work with people who love going to their psychic, and when I see that I think, there's no proof psychics know what they're doing, but they obviously provide a comfort, a service that people enjoy — I personally don't believe in psychics or fortune tellers. I don't believe it. Similarly, I don't believe our dreams have a prophetic

[01:01:18] meaning — I don't believe it, because our brains have activity while we're asleep, and images that last a split second in our minds feel like they lasted ages, and we think they have some grander meaning. I have a bad habit — when people want to talk to me about their dreams, I shut them down. I know, I don't want to engage with it. I need to be better about that, in the same way I'm not going to

[01:01:48] nasal-strip shame anymore. If you want to run with a nasal strip because it makes you feel good, go for it — if you want to run with something strapped across your nose because you think it's improving your breathing, more power to you. No more shaming from me, Courtney. I'm going to be better. Have you thrown out my present to you? Oh, the nasal strips — they're still in my bathroom drawer, the one I used on that run and the others are sitting there. So there's still hope, they're still there.

[01:02:19] they're still there. This is an interesting one, kinesiology — what is it? It's a holistic therapy, in the sense — I'm going to try to explain this — I did go and see a kinesiologist when I was younger, racing. I've got a definition here: the scientific study of human movement, combining the

[01:02:50] principles of anatomy, biomechanics and physiology. It also refers to the holistic therapy that uses muscle monitoring to evaluate physical, emotional and energetic imbalances within the body. Yes, that's probably more where I was going with it — I'm going to get this completely wrong, apologies in advance, it's been a while since I've been, but you hold some type of rock or mineral on your chest, and depending on that, you move your arm and there's a reaction —

[01:03:21] is it stronger, is it weaker? Have you ever played those games? Like what I just told you about the dream stuff, I'm not — I'm very resistant to this sort of thing. So the kinesiology is around working out — it'd actually be a really interesting chat, if you're a kinesiologist who runs, give us some information — did you get any benefit out of it, is my question. Well, here's what I'll say: if you believe you're getting

[01:03:52] benefit out of it, you probably are. And at the time, the people I was around and working with, we all believed in it, so we all went and did it. Do I do it now? No. But at the time — my point is, you go in and there's a belief, and we're talking about that line again — there's belief in it, and sometimes what I do believe is, sometimes if it's just placebo

[01:04:25] but you believe in it enough, it probably can help you. Yeah, my takeaway from this — probably not a good spend of money, but if you believe in it — my takeaway right now is that the most powerful muscle we have is our brain, because in the face of evidence to the contrary, we can still believe things. We can convince ourselves that a thing is useful when it might not be. We can change our

[01:04:57] thinking towards things, and heading into this marathon next weekend, it's your brain that's the muscle you need to control most. It's the ego in your brain wanting to run faster when you need to hold it back, it's the ego in your brain not allowing you to be calm and settle into it. It's also interesting that athletes, especially at the elite level, go through a lot

[01:05:28] of practitioners looking for answers — a lot of practitioners over time, if you think about all the different practitioners you go looking for an answer with, because that one didn't give you the answer you wanted, or it didn't work, so you go and try something else and keep trying. I wonder how far down that ladder you can go — you end up at

[01:05:58] well beyond a kinesiologist, no — what was the first one you were talking about, what are you talking about, this is how the conversation started, nasal strips? No, you know what I was just saying about the brain being the most powerful muscle — Courtney's just torn his — I keep thinking in my head, psychiatrist, but you started with reading tarot cards. Oh, psychic, psychic,

[01:06:30] oh god, sorry, that would have taken me forever to get there. Psychologists are definitely not psychics, by the way, I know, we do not put them in the same category. This has gone really left-field, Liam. I told you at the start, I'm working on two and a half hours of sleep, I'm not — anyway, your brain is powerful,

[01:07:00] and we are one week and one day away from Courtney Atkinson racing his first ever marathon. I'm so excited. And we just lost our whole holistic audience — it's okay, they'll come back, they're a forgiving bunch, I'm kidding. If we don't laugh, we'll cry. Enjoy the episode, recommend it to friends, subscribe, all that stuff. We'll see you next week.