EP 7 - RESHAPING THE BRISBANE OLYMPICS

[00:00] In the beginning, episode 7, we are back once again. Courtney, how are you traveling? Another week comes around quick, doesn't it? It flies around. Election on the weekend — big Queensland story, you know, a political one. Let's just go straight into it. Who did you vote for? No, I was actually almost running around the election polling booths because of the radio show that I do, Triple M's Rush Hour. We'd made a special sauce — I saw that — for all the democracy sausage

[00:30] sizzles that were taking place. Disappointingly, we discovered that I think the democracy sausage sizzle is dying out, just like the Bunnings one, because more people are pre-voting. I think it was something like a third of the people in this Queensland election pre-voted. Yeah, well, when they send it to you in the mail, literally, hey, you don't have to go down, here's the form. Be honest, as a celebrity, as an Olympic celebrity — that's a big stretch. Two-time Olympic athlete, stretch, who is noticeable and comes with a level of fame.

[01:04] Do you postal vote? I postal vote. Of course you don't. I do, 'cause I was in Amber on the weekend — I was in New South Wales, so how could I vote for that one? But the big news around the space, why I brought up the election so fast, was, you know, with Brisbane 2032 very close now, there are some ramifications from this election around stadiums. That's the one we want to talk about. It's good news, I think — I could not be happier. Look, the way I see it, I don't care what

[01:39] the hundred-day review looks like. I don't care, and I understand that in Queensland as a state right now there are cost-of-living pressures and bigger issues that are more important than sport, more important than the Olympics. Go and listen to those on a non-sporting podcast — we're all about the Olympics, we care about the Olympics, we care about sport. The thought that Brisbane might have hosted these Games at QSAC, which is the old athletics track up there that backs onto a cemetery, which has nothing around it, which public transport-wise, nothing

[02:12] goes there. I think it was the 1982 Commonwealth Games stadium — I think that's how old it is, don't quote me, hopefully I'm right on that. And I get the budgetary situation the state is in, again, go and listen to those on another podcast. This is an opportunity for Brisbane as a city, for southeast Queensland as a region, to show off to the world, and holding it at an outdated stadium in desperate need of renovation, in the middle of nowhere, not close to

[02:43] any of the other good parts of the city, is not showing off. It's depressing. So I am thrilled that it looks as though the new government has plans in place to either redevelop the Gabba or build something new. Victoria Park — are you pro Victoria Park? Yes, I am, because the other talking point I'd heard about was building it on the north side of the river, you know, where Eight Mile Plains is? Yeah, down more near the Gateway

[03:14] bridge, yeah. Talking about reclaiming some of the river and building something on the water there, which I don't mind either. The thing I love about Vicky Park — and this is coming from someone from Adelaide who's seen what happened with Adelaide Oval, being turned into the centre of the town, with both football teams playing out of there now, the Big Bash teams, Test cricket, all of it — it has brought new life to the city of Adelaide, and it's made the CBD the after-party for these football games. Whether it's an afternoon game or a night

[03:44] game or a twilight game, whatever, people flood from the ground into the CBD, and that's given life to this incredible small bar scene, small pub scene. It's brought life to the businesses within the CBD. That's why I think Vicky Park would be my preference, because of the proximity to Brisbane city, and then you see the benefits flow on. This is a town where a former Powderfinger member — I've forgotten his name, but he's just been installed as the night-

[04:15] time boss, like the new Minister for the Night-Time Economy. But his job, his remit, is to bring the nightlife of Brisbane back, and if you build a great big state-of-the-art stadium at Vicky Park, that'll help. Yeah, I think Victoria Park — I don't obviously know Brisbane all that well, but from the times I've been there, the thing I like about it is it's got space.

[04:45] So you can create it from scratch, right? You don't have all the infrastructure problems around it, you don't have to worry, you can build it how you want it. And when you look at the legacy of Olympic stadiums around the world, the ones that had enough space to create that landmark are the ones that last and give a good legacy. If you can do that in the middle of a city, well, you're winning on all fronts. Not to get too bogged down, but the other thing about the stadium is we know that Cricket

[05:16] Australia's already made it clear the Gabba isn't great as a cricket stadium anymore, right? Because I think next year, when the Ashes come to town for the first time in like 40-plus years, they're not starting at Brisbane. The Gabba is normally the kick-off venue for the Ashes series, and now it's starting in Perth instead. And that's a direct message from Cricket Australia to the Queensland state government that the Gabba's not up to scratch anymore. It's not Cricket Australia's fault, it's the Queensland government's fault that Queensland cricket is sliding

[05:48] down the pecking order, right? The Brisbane Lions just won the premiership on that ground, so it's okay for now, but there are genuine issues with the Gabba that need to be fixed. Knock it down, build some apartments so you alleviate some housing pressure, and build something Taylor Swift will actually come to town for. I don't know if the Lions will be too keen — I reckon they want a few more years running at the Gabba with their home

[06:20] advantage there at the moment. But I agree, mate, we'll run for council next. We can literally run for council on that. Just quickly, because you've been to two Olympic Games — how important is that, is that key? And I know on neither occasion did you race in the stadium because you're obviously in triathlon. We went to the stadium for the closing ceremony. How important was it? How memorable was it, more to the point? Not that memorable, really. No, I mean, because you're invested.

[06:51] Because — yeah, when you're not racing, you literally just get bussed into the stadium for the closing ceremony, you duck under the grandstand and suddenly you're in the middle of the stadium, parties going on, music, everything else. And at London, I went to the opening ceremony. This is how crazy the Olympics can be for some sports — my first experience, in Beijing, I was at home here in Australia, still training for the first two weeks of the Olympics. I literally watched it on TV

[07:21] just like any other person, didn't feel part of it, really. And then suddenly I jumped on a plane, three days later I'm out in the countryside of Beijing racing the Olympic triathlon. So you only spent three days in the country? Actually, I think it was two days before, maybe three sleeps, before your race at the Olympics. Yeah, in a house outside of Beijing close to where we were racing, and then I think we had two or three days after that in the closing ceremony window to

[07:54] go into the village and check it out and sleep. So you asked me what the stadium meant to me — in triathlon I really didn't get to see it. What about London? London was a different experience. We'd always base ourselves down in the south of France to train during the year, so we had a good base only an hour's flight into London City Airport, and I was the only one in the team of six who said, I don't care, I'm going to the opening ceremony this time because I might never get another chance and I want to experience it. So I flew in for one night to go

[08:25] to the opening ceremony, then flew back out and spent the next two weeks in France, then flew back in to race in the middle of London. Are you glad you did it, for the opening ceremony? A hundred percent, because I never got back there, so it worked out. But that's what you asked about with stadiums — that was an experience, and when you look back at everything, the results and everything else, I think the opening ceremony is probably one of the most important things you can do at the Olympic Games, if you can get there. But the Olympics at the moment, it's changed so much, even

[08:58] since I was there those few times. The face of the Olympics right now, with the desire to attract youth through new sports — climbing, breakdancing, and everything else going on at the Games, all these action sports coming in. The Olympics was once all about tradition, and I suppose I talk about it from the middle ground, because triathlon, back in Sydney 2000, we were that new

[09:30] action sport, I suppose, coming in and probably taking a medal off another sport — I'm not sure. But we were probably the sport people were pointing the finger at, going, you don't deserve to be around here, or whatever. Five or six Olympics later, you're one of the mainstream sports of the Olympics with triathlon, and now you've got BMX and skateboarding and everything else coming in. What are your thoughts — do you like where the Olympics is going? Alright, let's get into this.

[10:02] I am concerned about what the Olympics are now compared to what they were in my prime viewing days. I'm not even talking Sydney, because in Sydney, when the Sydney Olympics were on, I was 16. And I don't know if I was super invested in the Olympic Games at 16. So what did you watch, what were the key events for you? I remember Cathy. I remember the swimming, well, because that was the Thorpey

[10:33] smashed-it 4x100 relay swim, I remember those big moments, and I remember Natalie Cook winning gold in the beach volleyball — still one of the great, still one of the great overshadowed moments, because they were the talk of the town. I spoke with Natalie Cook about this for about two hours, because two hours later Cathy won the gold. So they won gold on Bondi Beach at the home Olympic Games — what an iconic spot, what an iconic moment. And then Cathy goes out and delivers the greatest moment in Australian Olympic history.

[11:04] So it's that little part where you think if they'd done it maybe two days prior they'd have had a bit more time in the sunshine, but it is what it is. This is part of what I — not so much a concern, but if I looked at what I would do if I ran the Olympics, because I think it's saturated. I think the Olympics has got saturated, not just by the number of sports coming in, because I actually agree you need to bring in new sports to keep the youth watching and to give kids something to go

[11:34] out and play and do, something they want to emulate from those athletes — that's great. But with that, I think it's just become way too much. And then you've got the additions now of multiple relays entering the sport, pushing for more medals — swimming mixed relays, running mixed relays, triathlon mixed relays — which again I think is a great thing, but it's coming at the cost of just becoming too many medals.

[12:07] So you said to me, I remember from the Sydney Olympics these few key heroes from events, big medal moments. I think what's happening now is they're not bringing in a medal and taking one away from somewhere else, so we've still got roughly the same number of events to watch, they're just adding more and more events for TV time. My question is always, is that fair on the athletes? Yes, it allows more athletes to win more medals, but they're not necessarily bringing in more

[12:40] athletes to the Olympics — a lot of these multiple events are just offering more medals to more of the same athletes, which is why I say it's saturated. Does that make sense? Yeah, it really does. So if I appointed Courtney Atkinson to the Brisbane 2032 Olympic Organising Committee, would you go the way of Glasgow 2026? Because, if people have seen this, Glasgow saved the Commonwealth Games after Dan Andrews and the state of Victoria couldn't be bothered

[13:10] putting it together. Glasgow stepped in and is hosting the Games, but they've just gone through the running order and cut around ten sports from the roster. Is that what you'd do in Brisbane? I wouldn't necessarily cut sports, but I'm a believer that if you want to create heroes from an event, there's only a certain number of heroes people can actually digest. You see it at the Games, one day

[13:41] say someone wins the BMX gold medal, then within a few hours something else has happened, something else has happened. It's just continual, we don't really get to celebrate those true individual performances the way we should. Yeah, so some kind of addition by subtraction. Addition by subtraction, yeah. You could even argue for the traditional sports, your swimming and your athletics — they should be the bread and butter, they should always exist because that's what the Olympics is based on, faster,

[14:13] stronger, that whole notion. But even then you start to question, with the number of events they're adding over time — take swimming, because it's an easy example, but running would be the same thing — there are so many multiple events in swimming and running now. You've got the 50 freestyle, the 100 freestyle, and now you've got the relays, the 4x100 relays, the 4x200 relays, the mixed relays, more and more events. Now, I come from the base of an individual sport,

[14:44] where in triathlon, one medal, one gold medal, and I'd say — there's arguments to bring in Ironman triathlons, Sprint triathlons and everything else, but I think it's perfect the way it is. It creates one hero every four years. What do you think of the idea floated around for the Brisbane 2032 Games of surf lifesaving being introduced as one of those home-team, hometown-pick sports? It's an interesting one — I like when countries bring their own

[15:17] flavour to those sports. They get to choose. Football's coming in for LA in 2028. So it's the host country's right, and I think it should be a bit of a competitive advantage too. Surf lifesaving does make sense, because realistically only a few countries do it properly. Australia's the best at it — of course, we've got the most beaches, the most competitive landscape, so we're going to win, we're going to win gold. So I'd do it from a competitive point of view. Is it fair for

[15:49] the Games, though? Probably not. Probably not. It's — going back to what you were saying about running and swimming and the various events, David Rhodes, a former Olympian, I think he went to Beijing for kayaking, made a joke to me once. I work on a radio show with Liesel Jones, the greatest breaststroker this country's ever produced. David Rhodes made the joke to me — he's only in swimming.

[16:19] why do we create three other strokes for people who weren't the fastest in the fastest stroke? Freestyle's the fastest, right, and yet we've created three other strokes across three other distances, and however many distances for these people to swim, when in sprinting there's the 100 metres — there's no 100-metre hop, no 100-metre skip, it's just who gets there fastest in the 100 metres. Swim however you want, or run however you want, but whoever gets there fastest wins. And yet in swimming, there's

[16:52] this whole — it's an industry now. So is the 100-metre freestyle winner's win harder to achieve than the 200-metre butterfly winner's? I don't know, I'd guess the 100-metre freestyle is harder to win. Let me rephrase — I think any Olympic race is hard to win, but I think the 100-metre freestyle should be the more prestigious race to win.

[17:22] I'll say that, yep, because I reckon getting to the Olympic Games, tip your cap to anybody. Well, coming from two people who've never won an Olympic gold medal — well, coming from someone who's never competed at an Olympic Games, but I have played international cricket for Vanuatu, just saying. So we've all represented countries, right, we've all got our caps. I like that idea — let me look at it a little differently, and this will take a shot at my own sport, but how many

[17:55] kids have the opportunity, how many people in the world have the opportunity to run 100 metres in their life? Anybody. Anybody can, unless someone's born without the ability to run, and at some point in your life, in the majority of countries around the world, you'd have been through the exercise of going to school and running. So you'll know if someone's a good sprinter or not before you even get into the more niche sports, or the sports that need money to actually participate in, whether that's

[18:28] skill-based sports like shooting, archery, equestrian — I mean, that one takes a shit-load of money to do. Hey, that's coming from a real small — but then you could argue how many people around the world ride horses and have the opportunity to learn that skill. I'd actually argue more people ride horses and have that opportunity than you'd think, talking globally, even some of those niche sports. Well, I'm not going to

[18:59] try and take the shine off one of our golden girls from the most recent Olympic Games, but when you talk about niche sports — paddling, Jess Fox, what she and Noémie did — I think Jess Fox is the golden girl from the Games. Probably her and Ariarne Titmus walk away, Mollie O'Callaghan walks away, Kaylee McKeown as well — the swimmers were awesome, right, the female swimmers were unbelievable. They walk away as the golden girls of the Paris Olympics for me.

[19:29] You forgot Jess Hull. Well, I don't think Jess Hull walks away as a golden girl because she didn't win gold, and I've discussed this previously, I think it's an uncelebrated medal. But Jess Fox and the swimmers, they're the golden girls from those Games. And yet Jess Fox's sport is incredibly niche — slalom kayaking, I think there's only one venue in Australia, in Penrith, which exists because of Sydney, because they had to build one.

[20:00] Yeah, super niche, you've probably got to live in Penrith, I assume, and I'm tipping there are more paddlers in certain places around the world. But then what, they've got three events now. Yes, they just added the kayak cross event, over the gladiator-style version of it, where they race each other head to head. So three medals now in that sport, versus, well, in road cycling, one — well, time trial and road cycling, you

[20:33] could argue, but the very specialist events — they've taken that out of the Commonwealth Games, road cycling and mountain biking, it's gone. Oh wow, from the Comm Games? That's interesting, why would you take cycling out? I don't know, presumably Scotland doesn't have great roads. I don't know what the roads of Glasgow are like, but — half the cyclists have come from Scotland, that's just absolutely crazy.

[21:04] We better get back to some running though, otherwise we're going to lose the whole listenership. I think people will have enjoyed that, tell us if you didn't. How's your week on the track been? It's been good, yeah, it's been good, I've knocked out about 90 kilometres, give or take, which is a big week off the back of the fact that three weeks ago I wasn't running. I've come up really quick, and a few people have asked, since we were dumbing down some of our talk last week, can you give us a bit more

[21:35] information on what I'm trying to do specifically. So the biggest thing that's changed coming back from the States, and the thing giving me the most motivation, is I've got numbers now — we talked about me doing those lactate tests and I've got numbers, heart rates. So when I'm going out on my hour of base building, or just a normal run, I can't help myself, I'm putting the heart rate monitor on, I'm within — yeah, I'm in the zone, I'm within three beats of where I

[22:05] want to be. And so suddenly my casual run, which used to just be about fitting in with others or going out for a jog, has suddenly become something I'm doing with real purpose, and I'm noticing changes fast — I'm responding really quickly, which is exciting at the moment. Hopefully not too quickly that I get injured again. But for people who missed episode one, where we introduced this podcast and what we wanted to do, Courtney mentioned finding that competitive fire and finding

[22:36] something that was going to light it. If you could see his eyes right now, the fire appears to be — I don't know if it's lit yet, but they're certainly putting the kindling on. It's getting there, it's getting there, yeah. So I've had a decent week. I turned up to the Gold Coast run crew, so we should mention Tim Vincent — he came out two years ago and did Red Bull Race the Sun, the 24-hour event, ran that, and then went and ran the Gold Coast Marathon in a

[23:06] ridiculously quick time about three weeks later, but he's finally just cracked the 2:10 mark — top ten all time. Yep, top ten all time now, and I've seen his progress, literally, from him being down there with the Gold Coast run crew, Jacko's coached him pretty much through this, to now being one of — how old is he, good question, I'll take a stab and say around 25, 26, but I could be way off.

[23:36] I'm trying to look him up at the moment — interestingly been through uni, working. Is he 26? 26, I was on the money, right, bang on the money. Interestingly, he's an athlete who's just done something remarkable, incredible. I think he runs for LSKD, doesn't he? Yeah, just recently, great local brand as well, Jason Daniels doing great stuff there. We should explore the idea of LSKD, because

[24:06] I think it's, well, not the only example, but a great example of an Aussie brand — it's an athletic wear company, it started out as something else, but now it's an athletic wear company leaning into the running training space, a bit like this podcast. But I also love the way they're supporting athletes. From my understanding they've really thrown their weight behind him, and he's got the results, so that's a massive thing. So I was down there running with the group he's in — he's in Brisbane now, but the Gold Coast group

[24:36] he used to run with — what did we do last week? We did a 12-minute threshold and then hit the track for eight by 200 metres with 200-metre float. There's a few of the Suns boys back training in that group, a few triathletes, and a whole heap of young runners, plus the old crew I run around with. When you jump in with that group, is your running still at the pointy end? At the moment, last week I got dropped by

[25:07] the big group, and I'm chasing down some of the whippet 5K and 10K guys, we'll be running at the Noosa 5K this weekend, really quick, but I'm running to my own pace in that. It's just good to be back around, though it's hard to slow yourself down because you suddenly go into competitive mode and want to race. But I've been really chasing these heart rates and the zones I need to run, and I'm quickly feeling that pick up. The other thing I've done off the back of our metronome chat and running cadence talk,

[25:39] I've been using a 180 metronome a bit on some of these runs, just to remind myself, when I'm a bit tired, to keep my cadence up, and I'm finding it great — it keeps me light on my feet. One of the exercises I'm also doing for calf and ankle recovery is rhythmic pulsing, kind of a calf exercise where I'm taking my toe flexors out of it and just trying to build strength in my soleus — sorry, focus

[26:14] on the endurance of it rather than the strength, through the tempo you'd run at. It's hard to explain on the podcast what I'm doing, but think of it as pulsing on that muscle — that's the first phase, and something we're really concentrating on in that recovery. For those interested, how do you actually run with a metronome — short of grabbing the thing off the top of the piano and jogging along with it? Is it something you set up on your watch, on your phone? How do you run with a

[26:44] metronome? Yeah, at the moment I've just got it — you literally download a Metronome app on your phone, set it to 180, and you can still listen to Spotify or whatever, and it just clicks along in the background. So even if you forget it's there, it's just helping with rhythm. I'll stick with this for a week or so while I'm getting back into it, it just helps with rhythm. We obviously talked about the 180-beat songs, and we actually asked this week about songs, of

[27:16] all things — the poll this week, we did ask about songs, and to be honest, we got some feedback but it hasn't been as good as some of the other polls. So please jump in. But ACDC came in strong — which song? "You Shook Me All Night Long." Dylan Rinn, who's an absolute killer in ultra running, was on that one — that's what he listens to. And Gordon actually said the same

[27:46] thing, "You Shook Me All Night Long." I'm just trying to think about the rhythm of that — interesting. Yeah, anything drum and bass must have been a Kiwi. Yeah, they're into that. Foo Fighters, there's a bit there too. But we shared our favourite songs, I just don't mind listening to the old tick-tick-tick. If you look back, when we talked about it last week, we talked about the idea of benchmarking a run, mixing it up, trying the metronome, giving it a crack, see if

[28:18] it works for you — set it to a rhythm, go for a run, see if it helps, see if it doesn't, see if you feel a bit lighter on your feet. It forces you into that, it definitely forces you to pick your feet up, so that's been working well. And then I got down to Yamba — you weren't a big fan of running around Yamba. Wasn't a big fan of Yamba, beautiful place for a holiday, but the running, there's not much to do around there, a bit of road, a run along the coast, but to get out of there there's nowhere to go, no forests, seemed a bit sandy when I drove down.

[28:49] So I actually came back after, on the Sunday I came back home and went back out to my favourite Nerang spot, right back out to Nerang. Yeah, it's like an old guy creature-of-habit, definitely a creature of habit. If you're new to listening to this, and if you've followed my Strava — I pretty much share everything on Strava — you'll find I'm a creature of habit, I've been noticed. You are living out on the trails at the moment, whether it's on your bike or running around. Yeah, definitely living out there, creature of habit, finding something, but looks like you're running well, based on your Strava numbers, you look like you're actually running pretty well.

[29:20] I am, but on that Thursday session, my brother said to me I look like I'm running like a FIFA '08 player. Yeah, have you ever played PlayStation FIFA? Yeah, so FIFA 2008, the players were just stiff — as you move the joystick they go in a straight cross-section, they literally run around in a square only, and he said that's what I look like running at the moment. You're right, okay, pretty average. I think your numbers say you're moving pretty well. And what about you, mate, what have you been up

[29:51] to since we last spoke? No, look, obviously new to triathlon this weekend, so I've been trying to lean my focus into the bike a fair bit. Off the back of our last chat last week, I went out and essentially copied one of your Strava sessions, where it was a 4K at a 5-minute jog pace and then leaning into a 5K effort, and for me, stepping down each K, getting a bit quicker each K, and ended

[30:24] up running that 5K at about a four-oh-eight pace, solid, and then came off and jogged back for those five minutes. So it's sort of a fartlek-style session, and it felt really good. I've been trying, for the most part, to stay off running a bit because I've been trying to focus on the bike, but then today, the day of recording — and this is not exaggerating for effect — not since last year's Noosa Triathlon have I swum more than

[30:57] 500 metres. And today I jumped into Teewah Creek and did a half hour, because it was the mental battle, again, that I thought a bit about what you said last week about how long runs provide the mental confidence and mental strength to run the distance. That's one benefit to it, aside from the benefit to your lungs and your legs, there's also the mental strength you gain from running the distance. That's what I was chasing this

[31:27] morning. I know I'm not going to improve my swimming between now and Sunday, which is three days out — or if you're listening to this on Saturday, it's tomorrow — but I wanted that mental confidence of basically swimming around in Teewah Creek for half an hour. It is Teewah Creek — I reckon that's how long it's going to take. Teewah Creek is the best, it's amazing, one of the greatest natural swimming pools in the country, it's so good. And even for me, not being a strong swimmer, just the challenges that

[32:00] the creek naturally presents — it was a calm day, a beautiful day, but the currents were still running, so I'd swim across, and then as I tried to swim up the creek I was swimming into the current, so I wasn't going anywhere fast, but don't panic about it, and then you'd get the benefit once I crossed back over and swam with the current. It was just an awesome way to spend half an hour, and that'd be good practice for the ocean on the weekend anyway. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so I did that this morning.

[32:30] I had a few little interval runs off the back of that, went out for a 6-7K hit with some K efforts. But for the most part I've been kind of — I wouldn't say tapering, because I probably haven't done enough training to justify tapering — but I'm glad I swam. This weekend, in fact today, if people are listening to this on the Saturday, it will be — yeah, there's what's called the Legends Race at the Noosa

[33:01] Triathlon weekend. They kind of say it's a bit of a celebrity thing, but that's a big stretch, a big stretch. But they get people from all walks of public life around Queensland and around the country, and you get thrown into one race together over a really short course in front of the crowd, so it's a bit of a pre-show to the Noosa 5K Bolt and the CYC pro cycling event there on the Saturday. It's

[33:31] a bit of a laugh, and you have — so last year I did it, and I was in a team with, I think, Jess Schipper swimming, the Olympic swimmer, and she still goes quick, she's a super swimmer, and I think Kenny Wallace was on the bike for us, I think, I can't remember, and I ran, and because the run's only what, 1.5K or 2.5K or something like that, and I ran out with James Tobin, Channel Seven's James Tobin, and I

[34:03] just took off, started running together, and about 500 metres in, we both looked at each other and said, we are running way too fast, neither of us can hold this pace. And we started out at the same time as Beth McKenzie, who's an icon of trail running in this country now and has the Win Triathlon brand with her husband, Luke. She was just going, and I looked down and tried to slow down, and I actually recorded my fastest ever 2K that day — like 3-minute pace, which is so far beyond me.

[34:35] And I just, 'cause you get caught up in the moment, caught up amongst all the crowd and everyone cheering you on, and I was trying to chase down Glenn McGrath — it was an awesome day. But this weekend, today, I need you on your best on Saturday, on the bike. I'm putting you on the bike. What? I want to run! Yeah, I know, that's the simple part. I guess I should be glad you're not putting me in the water. Well, we were going to put you in the water, and, as this will be released on Saturday, I can tell you I've roped in another mate of mine, his name's Yasu, you know,

[35:07] I've never heard of Yasu. So Yasu swam — now let me think — he swam the London and Rio ten-kilometre open water swims for Japan at the Olympics. So he knows how to handle himself in the water. Right, so he'll race you head-to-head. What are you doing to me? So if I don't have a lead coming into my run, because I'm definitely not tip-top at the moment, I need a lead.

[35:37] What are you doing to me, putting me in this Olympic sandwich where you've got a two-time Olympian jumping in the water first? I'm genuinely anxious about this now, because I don't want to be embarrassed and gobbled up. There's some genuine — we're not putting you up against, no, no excuses, mate, early weapons in this race, I'm sure there are, but we need you to do your job, we need you to do your job. Trying to hold onto them — do you know

[36:09] what I'm most anxious about now? The crapness of my bike. I'm not worthy of being in this race, and my bike is even less worthy of being in this race. Thanks for that. That's alright, we expect big things, Liam. So next time we're chatting on this, we could be victors of the race. Doesn't matter, actually, is there a prize? I don't think so. That's disappointing. Hey, can we play a quick game? Sure, I want to call it the

[36:39] recovery game. How long have we been going for at the moment? We've been going a while, we've still got time. Quick recovery game, because you've got — I think the recovery industry's probably, I don't know if it's at its peak, but it's certainly as popular as it's ever been in this country with the running boom, the fitness boom. This is the recovery industry you're talking about. You've got places on the Gold Coast like Riggs, and there's a place in Sydney called Recovery, and all these

[37:10] places set up with saunas, hot and cold plunges, NormaTec boots, float tanks, all sorts of stuff. Ice baths, ice baths. I want to play a quick ranking game with you as an elite athlete — I'll give you my amateur rankings, but I want you to rank NormaTec boots, hot and cold plunge or ice baths — just call it ice baths — sauna, and massage. Rank those four

[37:42] based on however you want to rank them, but essentially, if you're programming your recovery from a race or a big week, how are you ranking those four? What's the most important to you, and what's the least important? Right, well, I'm going to play this honest — you talk about being honest, because it's different to what it would have been when I was racing, but right now I'd say massage number one, NormaTec boots number two, right?

[38:15] What were my other two options? Ice bath and sauna — I'd go sauna three and ice bath four. Why? Because ice bath is the very cool thing to do, ice bath is very cool. I'm a fan of ice baths for recovery in the sense of if you've got trauma — if you're a footy player and you've been whacked around on the weekend, or you've done a trail race or something and really beaten up your legs going downhill, that

[38:46] type of thing and you're going to get DOMS — you're literally damaged — then I'd probably put ice bath higher up on that list, but just as a day-to-day thing, and the reason I say this is I only go off what happened to me subjectively. Beijing Olympics, I was training here in winter, the AIS gave me an ice bath for my house, one of the machine ones, literally sits at nine degrees, eight degrees, whatever the temperature was. The protocol we did at the time

[39:18] was — from memory, I think there were two different protocols. One was a long hold, a ten-minute stint in there, and the second was three minutes in, a bit of hot, three minutes back, a bit of hot, three minutes again. Now, training for the Olympics, mate, it was so — I mean it's painful training, every day you're out there building yourself, the body, the mind, redlining, and then every single day I had

[39:49] to come back and get in that bloody ice bath, every single day. It was, you know, Gold Coast winter's not too bad, but it was cold, and I got in there. So I went to Beijing and didn't race badly, but I definitely didn't race out of my skin or any better because of that. I stopped the ice baths, and three months later I was absolutely racing out of my skin, never did ice baths again, and racing out of my skin, didn't do anything different, just, yeah, so all the science

[40:21] and whatever studies are out there, whatever, but for me, I couldn't say it had an effect on what I did. Now someone would argue that the six months I did ice baths every day actually had the effect that helped me three months later, but right now today, when I'm not training full-time and all that, if you said to me go and sit in an ice bath, I couldn't think of anything worse — anything worse than the ice bath, hence, number four. The ice bath devotees out there will be

[40:53] hating hearing that, they'll be squirming. But I'm for it for trauma, okay, but every day, no. When it comes to recovery, what I'd put as number one is Netflix — just rest, sit on the couch, put the legs up and switch off. I'd just go for Netflix, and yeah, NormaTec boots at the same time, might add a bit of proceeding boots too, and I'll give you my rankings as an amateur punter. Have you had much experience with NormaTec boots? Like two or three times.

[41:25] Yeah, right, massage number one, sign. I probably haven't had enough experience with NormaTec to fairly judge them, but I'm going to put them at three. I'd put ice bath at two, NormaTec at three, sauna at four — I hate the sauna, I can't stand it, drives me nuts. Because you're South Australian and it gets too hot? You like the cold? It gets too hot, I genuinely get uncomfortable, I don't enjoy it, and I don't know if it's doing anything for me. I don't know if I feel good

[41:57] afterwards. To your point, I'd almost put in at number two, as a late contender, sitting on the couch with a Theragun. Yeah, right, I don't mind the Theragun, I love the Theragun, I think it's kind of like — the other thing I've found with the Theragun is you've actually got to, when you're stuffed after training, you've physically still got to put effort into holding it. Well, that shows how differently we train. But recovery — look, one thing I think with recovery is you can overdo it as well,

[42:31] and now that's going to sound crazy and people are going to go, yeah, this guy's off his rocker. But a lot of the recovery, I think you need to look at, is sport again — we've talked a lot about when people listen to advice, go on Google and check out sessions, they're looking at what the elites do. Well, the elites are literally doing all of that recovery because they get up, they eat, they train, they rest, they recover, they massage — that's their 24 hours.

[43:02] If you've got kids, a life, a family, parties to go to, work, and you're trying to squeeze training in, and then suddenly you start worrying about where you fit your recovery in optimally — like I said, sit down on the couch with your wife, your boyfriend, your girlfriend, whatever it is, put your feet up. That's true, that's recovery, and eat well, food's the other one — we should explore that one day. Can we talk about — I've got a shoe here I want to get to, got a present for you. You do have a present for me, you're spoiling me.

[43:34] It's not even my birthday, even though you missed my birthday. That's okay. Before we get to the shoe you just talked about — and my ears pricked up as I'm sure some other people's did too — training for the Olympics and how much it sucked, this is just redlining, and then you had to go back and recover. How did you stay motivated? And while you think about that, aside from the carrot of the Olympic Games — I bring this up because I went for a run since we last spoke with a

[44:06] friend, and it was a bit like when you and I go running, except the roles were reversed — we were running at a pace that was talkable for me and less talkable for him as we went on. But we got talking about the idea of motivation, particularly the idea of David Goggins, and I found it a really interesting conversation, so much so that I texted you afterwards and said I want to talk about this next episode. But how did you stay motivated when you talk about Olympic

[44:39] training and how much it sucked? Let's just go to the Goggins bit — are you going there? Yeah, you've baited me with Goggins. I've got a story I told, actually, the other day about Goggins, and it reminds me — I had another conversation with a mate the other day where we'd talked on a previous episode about performance runners versus your Ned Brockmans and runners doing across-Australia feats, and I was trying to explain what that style of running is to

[45:14] someone who really didn't know running, and they came back at me and said, oh, so you're kind of talking like they're the David Goggins of Australia. And I went, bang, can I use that? A hundred percent, that explains exactly what we were trying to talk about the other day about performance athletes and noise athletes. You've got the David Goggins of Australia, and they're the people's runners, they're what people want to listen to, they're the motivation, that's what people are getting up to. And then you've got performance — so there's a podcast, on YouTube actually, of a quite a large

[45:47] following fitness guy out of the UK, and he had Kristian Blummenfelt on, gold medallist at the Olympic Games, triathlon world record holder in Ironman — there's a great video of him at Kona last weekend throwing up mid bike race. He didn't have a great race on the weekend at Kona, but he's pretty much won everything. This fitness YouTuber spent a day with him training and asked him about a whole heap of things, and they're sitting at lunch eating, and he says, you would have heard of David Goggins, and he's like, yeah, yeah,

[46:20] yeah, kind of, of course he'd have come across him on the web, everyone has. Anyway, the guy said to him, what do you think it took David Goggins? And he wouldn't answer, which I wouldn't either in that case. And he said, well, let's just have a look at what he's done in an Ironman triathlon. Literally, for the Ironman triathlon, let's say he's done, first argument, 11 and a half hours. And he asked Kristian, what have you done, what's your best?

[46:50] And he's like, oh, well, in my first Ironman I went 7 and a half hours, and he's like, oh, okay, we're not even talking about the same sport here, this is chalk and cheese, the difference, we're talking five hours. And Kristian goes, oh, I suppose — he was being really humble about it — and he said, I suppose, in a way, I'd have finished, done presentations, gone back, had my shower, had my food, probably had a sleep, and then come back to congratulate people coming across the line. Yeah, that's performance versus

[47:22] noise, versus noise, and that's where I think that puts it into perspective, this space we talk about a lot. You talk about, I mean Tim Vincent as an example, a guy who's just run 2:09, that's a performance athlete versus noisy athletes — some noisy athletes are capable of running sub-three hours, but you're talking about an hour's time difference here, massive. So the reason I bring up Goggins is because my friend and I were jogging along talking about him, and I really enjoy dipping

[47:57] into David Goggins — I love dipping in on a David Goggins reel on Instagram, I get it, it's kind of like — not to belittle it — but it's like a binge-worthy TV show, you jump in, disappear into his feed for 20 minutes, watch a bunch of reels, then move on. Do you come out raring to go? All the time? No, not all the time. Sometimes I go, oh yeah, I like

[48:27] that, I agree with that. A lot of the time I go, nah, not for me. The issue I have with Goggins — and it's not really with Goggins, personal opinion, I think some people get lost with the David Goggins phenomenon — and it's a bit like Joe Rogan too. If you listen to what they're saying, it's all the things they do and say for themselves. Joe Rogan interviews people he's

[49:03] interested in, he talks about things he likes — UFC, bow hunting, stand-up — he's not trying to tell anybody else how to live their life. David Goggins talks about the things he likes doing for himself, he talks about the way he wants to live, the way he wants to exist, the way he wants to train, right, he's not preaching this — well, he is preaching it in a way. And I think where I get, not frustrated, because ultimately

[49:34] people can live their lives however they want. What I don't understand is when people take the mentality of Goggins and make it their gospel. I think if you're taking the opinions and the personality and the way of life of another individual and attempting to make it your own, it just means you haven't actually found who you are yet. And

[50:05] that might be part of the process, right, of figuring it out, yeah. Right, but it's this idea, and often, everyone probably notices who we're talking about here, when you see influencers who are sort of Goggins-light, or attempting to be of that ilk, and I kind of look at them and I don't feel pity for them, because they're their own people and they don't need my — but it's more a case of, if I go, find yourself, go, go, go, if this is part of you finding yourself and your voice, great. But you can't just

[50:39] regurgitate Dave Goggins quotes and attitudes and try to pass it off as being unique to yourself, because it's not, you're doing an impersonation. Yeah, I agree with you on this. I think the — not the issue, but because everyone can, everyone can do whatever they like, live your life — but I actually feel a bit sorry, because it shouldn't be that hard, it should be fun.

[51:11] Like, honestly, you just asked me about training before, why I said training for the Olympics was agonising or whatever, because you're out there redlining every day. I loved every second of it though — I said on one hand it sucked because it's so hard, but I loved the process of it, everything that went with it, I loved it. If I didn't have that goal of going to the Olympics, would I do the same thing? No, I want to enjoy what I like, I'd do more enjoyable parts of exercise that I get more out

[51:42] of. So there's a real competitive nature there, and then there's another side where you can go down the way of — I suppose fun's not the word — but exercise, and what you're doing should be enjoyable. If that enjoyment comes through being so structured that you want to go and win your age group at the Hawaii Ironman, then awesome, that's amazing, that's awesome. But that's not going to be for everyone, because on the flip side you've got a three-kilometre run club having a coffee and running for ten minutes.

[52:13] Awesome, they're doing the same thing, but that's for them, you're always going to side with what you believe. And I've flipped the script, because I still get a lot out of the process of doing things, but my number one thing is — you talked about Teewah Creek — I love running in the forest, I think there's nothing better than being out at sunrise, running on a single trail on your own, listening to the sounds and the light coming up, and going, how good's life, how good's this? You know what's better? Swimming in Teewah Creek

[52:46] when the sun's coming up and it's a picture-perfect day — there's something about being immersed in water that's even better. I prefer running, but I love the feeling of swimming, and I go swimming, generally when someone comes around I'll go swimming on a Wednesday, for that feeling over running. It's a shame we don't have video rolling for this one, because the smile on your face as you talk about running in the trails and swimming in the creek — I'm with you. People talk about, in triathlon, you've probably heard

[53:17] this — they talk about training your weakness, and for me that's swimming, right, I don't get the same enjoyment out of swimming that I get from running, which is why, when I have the option, I'll go for a run, because the enjoyment I get from running, whether it's on trails or on the road, is just there for me. And I'm the same, I want to enjoy the activities I'm choosing to spend time doing. So is the activity to you more important than the environment, or the environment more

[53:47] important than the activity? Because I'm actually — the environment's more important to me these days than the activity. It's not a question I've ever really thought about. Well, look, if you gave me the choice of going for a run in an industrial block, activity versus environment, or going for a swim in a beautiful creek, I'd probably take the swim. So it probably is environment

[54:18] over activity, yeah, you're right, which comes back full circle to things we've talked about previously — the reason Noosa Tri sells out, the reason the Gold Coast Marathon sells, it's the environment these events take place in. I think that's probably as big a drawcard as anything. But just to put a bow on the motivation thing with Goggins and all the rest of it — I still follow David Goggins, I love it as a — sometimes, if you will — and those people who make it the staple of their diet, good luck to you, if it keeps you out there

[54:50] motivated and keeps you active and fit and healthy and gives you drive in your life, go for it, a hundred percent. Go for it, a hundred percent, whatever gets you out the door. Whatever gets you out the door. Now, speaking of getting out the door — what am I holding? I bought you a present. So we've talked about all different running shoes, but I run for Salomon, so this present's from that world. These are the Salomon Spectre. What's interesting about this

[55:21] shoe — it's got a full-length carbon plate in it, but what they've done, I suppose from a marketing standpoint, is shape it a bit differently and target it at more of a three-to-three-and-a-half-hour marathon runner. So there's a few different — explain how this is different to something a two-and-a-half-hour marathoner might run in? Yeah, so compared to the — I'm not going to call it top of the

[55:52] range, because they're both top of the range, it's just that the design is different for each runner. Particularly here, you've got a wider heel platform, for stability, so if you're running a bit slower, you're more likely to be a bit more flat-footed or land a bit harder on your heel, so there's a bit more structure there, but you've still got the full carbon plate in there. Pretty much, I've never run in them, I want to test the marketing of this thing,

[56:23] so I brought them for you, Liam. So to read between the lines, it's a shoe that's too slow for Courtney to run in, so he's brought it to his slow running mate. No, I am genuinely — that's very generous, I love them. You don't have to run in them, but I want you to try them, and I want your honest feedback on what they're like. Because what I love about them, the thing that's jumped out to me — I haven't put my foot in these,

[56:53] I'm a bit disappointed about the colour, not a bit more — I wouldn't mind a bit more colour, they're all white. You're a bit of a fluro guy. I'm a fluro flyer. But what I love is there's a spot on the side of these shoes where you can write your name and presumably your goal time for your race. Ideally three hours. I love the idea, I'm already — so that's the present, you want me to run three hours? Yeah, I've just given you the

[57:23] shoe, the tool to go and run. So here's what I'm going to do — I'm going to, 'cause I'm going to run in these shoes, and as long as they don't break my feet, which I don't think they will, I'm excited to run in them, I can see myself confidently writing my name on these shoes, and then writing the time slot beneath, sub 2:59:59, and Gold Coast Marathon 2025, these will be the shoes I'm wearing, as long as they feel good. That's one of those running niche gear nerdy things which is individual,

[57:54] you might put them on and go, yeah, not for me, and that's alright, there's plenty of shoes — even within Salomon, the brand I run for, there's some models I go, hey, no thanks. Can we — I'm really excited, that's very kind. Can we play a quick game, 'cause I literally got a text message from a friend yesterday with a link to a site saying seven best road running shoes in 2024, and he said, your thoughts?

[58:24] Best basic running shoe to get me started, right, he sent this to me because I run more than he does, saying what shoes should I buy. So let's do this in real time, because the shoes rated on this page — the best budget shoe is a shoe called the Xero Kani Axon 3, okay, just looks like a standard run-of-the-mill jogger. Which brand? The best stability-rated shoe is the ASICS Gel Kayano.

[58:56] Yeah, the best plush cushioning shoe is the ASICS Gel Nimbus, the best for a race is the Nike Vaporfly, the best speed trainer is the Puma Deviate Nitro, the best daily trainer is the Nike Pegasus, and the best overall is the ASICS Novablast. Those are the shoes rated on this page. Interesting to note that three ASICS make the cut according to this page, and this is a site I've never seen before, called Run Repeat. But I look at all those and I almost want to text him

[59:27] back and say I wouldn't get any of those, I'd go into a store and try some shoes. I'd go into the Athlete's Foot and try some shoes on, or Rebel Sport, yeah, yeah. Not saying the Athlete's Foot isn't good, but I would not use these running sites as a guide on what shoe to buy if you're about to start running. I mean, the first thing we'd say is you can listen to reviews, I'll test different Salomon shoes and talk about how I feel

[59:57] in them, but the last thing I'll always say is go into the store and try a heap of shoes on. Because in the end, the single biggest complaint I hear about shoes is the toe box — how thin, how skinny a shoe runs through the toe box, and generally, especially with males who have wider feet, they'll go for a performance shoe everyone's talking about, get it, and it lists them up within,