Benita Willis's Half Marathon Countdown: Sessions, Super Shoes & Chasing A World-Class Field

[00:00] In The Beginning, the Gold Coast Marathon Series continues. No Courtney Atkinson this week — he's off exploring Europe as part of his real job with Red Bull. But it's an absolute pleasure to welcome back not only the coach at Lace Up Running, but one of the best endurance athletes this country has ever produced — the coach with the most, the person a lot of you have to thank for your performances in last year's Gold Coast Marathon. Benita Willis, how are you? Hey Liam — yeah, I'm happy to be here, chatting running again, very exciting.

[00:32] We've had a lot of people asking if Benita's coming back, and hopefully some of them have reached out to Lace Up Running directly, because we're right into marathon season. Before we get to Gold Coast specifically — London. Courtney and I haven't even talked about this yet — Sebastian Sawe, 59:30. As a marathoner at the Olympic level yourself, what do you make of that performance? It was one of those times where we're always waiting for that two-hour barrier to get

[01:02] broken, and I saw they went out at around 2:01, 2:02 pace, and to see Sebastian come home in 59 flat, almost — that's faster than a lot of the American half marathon record, to negative split by that much and smash the two-hour barrier by thirty seconds — that's unheard of. What did it make you feel, as someone whose event this was, someone who used to run this, seeing that number? It's incredible, yeah. You're always just so

[01:32] used to seeing those twos in front. Eliud Kipchoge did it in 2019, but it wasn't a proper race, so it doesn't count. But I think it planted the seed that it could happen one day. We talk about needing to see it to believe it — do you think, with what Sebastian's done, it's capable of going significantly quicker, or is there still that mental

[02:02] barrier around going sub-two in an actual race? He's 31, right in his prime as a distance runner — what's he capable of? He almost broke it at Berlin last year, and I think he went back to Kenya and really worked on his fuelling strategy. He obviously had the best super shoes too, we can talk about that — but to do it in a race, you need perfect conditions, perfect fuelling, the right

[02:32] super shoe for you, competition, a fast course. And the other guy who went under it too — for that young man, first ever marathon, sub-two hours, comes second. Probably a performance no one will remember because he came second. I feel for him, because I've watched him in so many competitions around the world, Olympics, world champs, he always seems to come second or third — to come second and still break two hours, still break the world record for the distance, and he

[03:03] didn't even expect to do it — he said he blew up at 40K. If I'm blowing up at 40K and I still break — I think I saw him interviewed before the race, someone suggesting a sub-two performance, and he laughed it

[03:37] off, like, no way. But an amazing run. Also, on London — not, in my mind, historically what I'd have thought was a fast marathon course. Berlin's the one we know as the record-chaser, Valencia more recently. Does this reposition London as an event? I've run the London Marathon twice as an elite athlete, and I do think it's a fast course, but I personally don't think it's faster than Chicago, Valencia or Berlin. Having said that, if you get good weather — they had tailwinds for the London point-to-point, a beautiful day — and London puts perfect pacemakers in for whatever groups are targeting within the elites, they usually have a couple of good pacemakers. I think they set the races up really well, and that

[04:09] competition really spurs the performances. You've got to get the good weather sometimes — Berlin gets hot sometimes, I've done Chicago twice, one year it was 30 degrees and the race got stopped at three hours, if you hadn't broken three hours you basically got pulled off because they ran out of water, it was hectic. The year before I ran 2:22 and it was minus three with the wind chill. So it's extreme weather either way — that's a huge factor no one can control. But the course, yeah, London's a

[04:40] fast course, but I don't think it's the fastest in the world. It's produced the world record though, so it is fast. Quickly before we move on to training — I wanted to touch on London going to two marathon days in 2027. What do you think about that? I think having the event on one day is probably better — spreading it over two days might diminish it for some people. I think the

[05:10] day the elites run is the day I'd want to be on, if I were a rec runner running London. Whether they split it men one day, women the next, I don't know how they'd break it up, but it'd be very hard if you've been waiting ten years through the lottery — I feel like London is probably the hardest major to get into through the ballot. You could be waiting years and

[05:40] years, and people applied for last year's — sorry, this year's — race. So if I got an entry, I'd rather it be all on the same day, personally. One more thing I wanted to mention — the women's-only world record at London too, Tigst Assefa breaking her own women's-only world record, narrowly beaten at the Olympics but comes back. I think that just puts fire in your belly to keep producing those runs. When you see her down the finishing straight, she looks like a sprinter — the one marathon runner who genuinely looks like one.

[06:12] I think she started in the 800m — is that where she began? Yeah, I don't know a lot about her, but I believe that's her background. Whereas a lot of marathon runners, like Sebastian, are mainly marathon runners from the start, others come into it from the track, like I did. Everyone's different, which is exciting. This might be an easy way to segue, since we're here to talk Gold Coast Marathon — we're about ten weeks out at the time of this

[06:43] dropping for everybody. One of the great things about Sydney last year, its first year as a major — Eliud Kipchoge cast an enormous, but great, shadow over the lead-up and the event. But being there on the day, not running myself, coming away from it, the real winner for a lot of people was Sifan Hassan — her performance winning the women's race, but also, as reigning Olympic gold medallist, the energy and

[07:16] brightness and enthusiasm she brought to the event. Do you think Gold Coast should make a real push to attract some of these top female athletes this year? It would be fantastic — it's a real centrepiece for any of these marathons to have one of the greatest female athletes in the world come to an event here in Australia. Someone like Sifan Hassan has probably never even been to Australia — I don't think

[07:46] she's ever raced here before Sydney. I believe Sydney was her first time in Australia. She wasn't at the Sydney Olympics, no, and there haven't been many other big events here either — World Cross in Bathurst, she wasn't there either. So to see them competing here is incredible, even just as a spectator — I'd watch Sifan Hassan run a race, she's unbelievable. It'd be cool for you guys to get her here — message to Benny and the team at EMQ. Okay, let's talk Gold Coast Marathon, and equally as

[08:19] important, the half marathon, because we've been inundated with people who perhaps didn't get a spot in the marathon, or are just targeting the half and want some tips and tricks. We're ten weeks out at the moment — can you give people some general guidelines for where they should be at this point? I think, first of all, the half marathon is such an exciting event — you need the endurance for it, but also

[08:51] some really good speed behind you. I don't think it's as important to come into the half with a big endurance background the way you'd need for the marathon — so if you've been doing shorter races, park runs, 10Ks, and you've only just started training for the half, that's fine. We're ten weeks out, obviously we want to be training, but you don't need to be running half marathons right now to be ready in ten weeks. As a guide, I'd say if you're aiming to run three or four times a

[09:23] week, keep a couple of runs nice and easy — well slower than half marathon pace, jogging, conversation pace, heart rate below 140, whatever parameter works for you, since everyone's easy pace differs. I'd do one or two runs like that, plus an interval session. For the interval sessions, we're looking at efforts over one, two or three minutes, with jog recoveries — something like three or

[09:56] four times three-minute efforts at around 10K pace with a 90-second jog recovery. So the session could be 4x3 minutes with 90-second jog recoveries, and the aim of those three-minute efforts is to be running a bit faster than half marathon pace. Any interval session, we want to be running faster than race pace. Another good session is 8x1-minute hills, where you're building strength — you're not chasing 5K pace exactly, it's about effort. Remember, on hills it's not about pace, it's about effort — really strong up, then a slow jog down.

[10:29] Something like that makes a good interval session — plenty of variations you can look up. I'd aim for a maximum of ten to twenty minutes of actual session work, not including warm-up and warm-down. And then your other run is the long run. Before you move on to the long run, I want to dig into hills a bit, because we've had a lot of half marathoners ask about them — can you talk about the importance of hill

[10:59] training? Because, speaking from experience, hills are a really easy thing to avoid. Really easy — that's exactly why I brought it up. Why do you think they're so valuable? I think, one, they add strength into your programme. We always talk about having a strength and conditioning programme alongside your running programme, but if you're really busy and not getting to the gym, doing one to three hill sessions in your prep gives you

[11:31] that strength work within the running session itself — specific strength as well as strength and endurance. I think that's really important, because one of the great things about running is that, cost-wise, it's actually quite accessible. Entry fees for events are going up, sure, but the barrier to entry is low — you just need a pair of shoes to get in. Gym memberships aren't something everyone can justify. So if you're one of those people without a

[12:01] dedicated gym or strength programme, hills are free — you can find them anywhere, even on the Gold Coast you don't have to go far inland to find some. You can find them anywhere. Good — back to the

[12:33] long run. For the long run, I'd just do one weekend a week, easy jogging. At ten weeks out, even if you're only running 10 to 15K for your long run, that's fine — even under 10K is fine. You just want to gradually

[13:04] increase that by two or three K each week and you'll be fine. You don't even need to have run a half marathon before race day to actually complete the Gold Coast half — same goes for the marathon, you don't need to have run a marathon before. Even if you've built up to an 18K long run two or three weeks out, you'll be fine on race day. Don't feel like you need to be doing 25 or 30K long runs for a half marathon — you don't. The important thing is doing a bit of interval training and gradually increasing

[13:34] the volume of your long runs. One important thing to do — every second week or so in your long run, try adding a few efforts into it. Say your half marathon goal pace is six-minute Ks — you might do 6 or 8K within an 18K long run with 1K a little faster than half marathon pace,

[14:07] say 5:50 pace, then 1K a bit slower, say 6:10 pace — alternating faster and slower like that. That's a good session to do. At what point in the run would you introduce that? I reckon if you can run about 15K comfortably, you could start including a few efforts within a few of your long runs. So say your long run is 15K, you might introduce those surge

[14:39] efforts and recovery Ks somewhere between K5 and K10, or in the last K or so. If your marathon pace is six minutes, do a few surges — 1K at 5:50, then 1K at 6:10 or 6:20, then back to 5:50, then back to the slow pace. Doing surges and slowing down within training really helps with efficiency on the day, and we use that kind of training a lot. Even over just 6K — three lots of 1K fast, 1K slow within a 15K long run — is good to do.

[15:12] Or another good long run session is running 15K and doing a surge for the last 4K, trying to get close to half marathon pace if you can. Any tips — because we've talked about the mental barrier around hills — if you've signed up for a half or a marathon, you're going to have mental challenges through the block, motivation dips, all of that. What about the idea of introducing surges into a long run? Most people at some point are

[15:44] just trying to get through 15 or 18K and want to survive. So the idea of introducing surges is a real mental hurdle — you want me to run faster for a K? It sounds hard, but it actually makes the long run go quicker, because there's motivation in it. As long as you're not surging too fast — say six-minute pace is your half marathon goal and your surge is at five-minute pace, and your slow K is already faster than six-minute pace, you're going too fast, and you don't want to finish those surges completely hammered.

[16:15] If it's within your long run, you don't want to finish absolutely smashed — that's not the idea. The idea is to practise running a little faster or a little slower than marathon or half pace. I love that as a hack for motivation — if you want your long runs to feel faster, introduce surging, it'll trick your brain. That's great. So we've got three to four sessions a week, intervals and long runs covered — jumping to a marathon mindset, are we still increasing the kilometres

[16:46] in some of these long runs, but keeping a similar foundation of three to four sessions, an interval, a long run and something else? I'm talking very broadly here — the underlying thing with all of this is the best way to prepare is to get a coach if you can afford it, or work to a specific programme tailored to you. Exactly. But broadly, if you're training for the marathon, you want to be running a bit more —

[17:17] if you're doing three or four runs a week for the half, for the marathon you might go to four or five, adding an extra run. Volume always matters for the marathon, and more running, to a point, helps. But we're all busy — kids, full-time jobs. I ran 60K last week, and I used to run 200K easy a week as an elite athlete, but 60K last week was probably too much for me right now — too much running. You've got to be really careful with volume. But if you're training for the marathon, you

[17:47] want to try to fit a bit more running in where you can, whether that's a longer long run, a longer warm-up and warm-down before sessions, or adding an extra running day. Can you explain why a longer warm-up and warm-down matters for marathoners specifically? Because, speaking from experience, I can look at an interval session or a tempo run and shorten the warm-up, shorten the cool-down,

[18:20] and skip those kilometres within the session. Why do they matter? It's about being time-efficient — for a lot of people training for the marathon who can only run three days a week but want more volume, the key to a good marathon is how well you run on tired legs at 25 to 30K. We want to mimic that in training. If you warm up for 20 or 30 minutes instead of 10 or 15 and

[18:51] you can only run three times a week, you're doing that session on slightly more tired legs, which mimics that late-marathon feeling. I don't always use that approach with the people I coach, it depends — I'd probably rather add an extra running day to keep session quality high. But it's another good option if you can genuinely only run Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday. But remember, with the marathon, it's not about how

[19:21] fast you can run over 5K, it's about how fast you can run after 30K — how well you've paced it, fuelled it, how much practice you've had with your long run. You can't just show up at Parkrun and run a good time and assume the marathon will follow — I could go to Parkrun and run a 5K, but I'd have no idea what I could do in a marathon, I'd probably blow up at 30K just from not running over 12K in two or three years. It's about how much volume you're getting into your

[19:53] legs, how many chances you get to run each week, and staying injury-free — which, if you're out there running a 10K, looking at the time, and extrapolating that out to 40K, thinking there's your marathon maths done, the 10K from 30 to 40K is a very different 10K from zero to ten. I know that, you know that — but I've known elite athletes who've run a fast 10K time, gone into their first marathon and thought, I can run 30 minutes for 10K, 3-minute-K pace

[20:23] for 10K, how hard can this be, I can do that for a marathon — and then they absolutely blow up. They just don't respect the marathon distance. I always tell people you've got to respect the distance and train for it — getting those extra runs and the volume into your legs really matters. It's about preparation, and we're in the preparation phase right now, whenever people are listening to this. You're not running the race tomorrow —

[20:57] your kilometre-pace speed doesn't matter right now, we're in the preparation phase. Obviously if people have bigger, loftier time targets, hopefully you've got a good understanding of your training block and you're working directly with someone giving you those sessions, and if not, Lace Up Running, you know where to find them. My wife's running the marathon for the first time this year. How's she going? She had to go to the physio the other day, a bit of a hip issue, and interestingly — I'm sure

[21:29] she won't mind me telling this — the physio asked where she was getting her training programme from, not realising she's married to me. She said, I'm getting it from Benita, and he said, Benita Willis? And she said, yeah, and he said, is Benita coaching you directly? And she said, no, I'm listening to a podcast Benita's on — and he just laughed. That's actually Luke Graves, a very good runner, so you can understand his confusion. But she did have some questions, and I'm going to use my position

[22:01] and privilege to ask you directly. Firstly, she's ten weeks out — is it too early to already be practising nutrition? No, there's real benefit, definitely, because for anyone running a marathon over two and a half hours — which is pretty much all of us — nutrition is huge. You need to get your fuelling right, and you need to practise it — what you eat the night before, pre-race, what you eat the morning

[22:33] of the race, what you have just before you start. Whether you use gels, whether you put caffeine in gels, whether you're having lollies, whether you're drinking water or sports drink — we know the fixed-nutrition sponsor is on course, so practising the on-course drinks matters too. We talked about this last year, how the concentrations can be a bit more diluted on course, so do you take your own? There are so many different ways to fuel. Definitely practise it, and I'd be practising in the long runs, while you're

[23:06] actually running, even jogging pace, is a good one. Has she got any lead-up races? I'm not sure — okay, well, practising in a lead-up race is even better. I think she might be entering the Gold Coast 30, the one Bronte did last

[23:36] year. Oh, she's doing the Gold Coast 30? Okay, that's soon, in a few weeks. That's a good one to practise in, because in a race situation fuelling gets harder — you get more nervous, you know what it's like. It's different practising fuelling at home while you're out on your normal run compared to a race situation, where other things happen. So it's good to practise in an actual race. I always say for anyone running Gold Coast Marathon, it's good to have a lead-up race, and if you don't, and I coach people who don't, we do a time trial and get some people around them for it. The more you can simulate that race situation and the nerves, the more efficiently you can practise your fuelling. Because if you get your fuelling right, that's

[24:08] huge. Obviously you've got to do the training too, but it's not too early to practise. Never too early to practise fuelling, that's the takeaway. If everyone's just jumped onto the series, welcome, whether you're training for the half or the full. Last year, for anyone unaware, we went through the full series with Bronte Langbroek, who Benita expertly coached through her first marathon — she absolutely smashed it. This Saturday's episode is actually going to be almost a

[24:41] cheat sheet from last year's series — we're taking all the best bits of Bronte's experience through the marathon, based on what Benita's just referenced here. A lot of what Benita's touched on today, Bronte went through last year, and we'll have that available in Saturday's episode for anyone who missed it. The other question — I don't know if we ever asked you this directly with Bronte last year. Alana, my wife, works from home, so she does have the chance

[25:12] to run at different times of day. We've got two young kids, and I'm not there early in the morning because I'm at work for the radio show, so she doesn't get to run in the traditional early-morning hours like a lot of people do. Given the race has an early start, is it a problem that she's not training early morning? I don't think so. I actually think it's harder to train early, digestion issues and things like that — most of us just do it because it's easier that way.

[25:43] But I think if she can do one run a week on the weekend at that early time, it'll help, because it's about knowing mentally how your body handles things, digesting, that's probably the hardest part. That's what I'm trying to get at, in a friendly way, with respect to my wife's privacy — adjusting your toilet stops. Most of us work on a schedule.

[26:13] Most of us work on a schedule, right — if yours doesn't suit the Gold Coast Marathon's start time, should we be adjusting the schedule, adapting our routine to the start time? Yeah, I know what you're saying. I think it's good — if you can practise this once a week — to be up at least an hour before you run. Fine for you, you're up early anyway.

[26:44] Yeah, we're up at four in the morning usually, so that's never a problem for me — but the race starts at six or 6:30, I think it's six. So you want to be up by 4:30, or four, on race morning, and even

[27:15] earlier if you're travelling, by public transport or the light rail, to get to the start line. Don't think any time's too early. The sleep the night before doesn't matter as much, don't stress about that. It's about getting up, having

[27:48] coffee or whatever you've practised, whatever your pre-race fuelling strategy is — crumpets and honey and a banana, maybe. Make sure you're getting that in, walking around a bit, and then you should be able to get to the toilet. You need to practise this, definitely — but if it doesn't happen, don't stress about it too much either. The less stressed you can be before a marathon starts, the better you'll run. If you're stressing about the weather or things you can't control,

[28:18] that's wasted energy — you just can't control those things, so focus on yourself and being as relaxed as you can. Shoes, ten weeks out — should people already be in their shoe of choice? Not necessarily, but in the next month or so I'd definitely be locking in the shoe you want to wear. I was on ABC News last night talking about super shoes, Sebastian's run, and

[28:48] Sifan's run too. It's funny, I never had super shoes when I was competing — it was all about finding the thinnest shoe you could, and you thought that was best for marathoning. Now you've got to get the right shoe for your foot, and you don't want to be wearing super shoes for the first time on race day. But you also don't want to be wearing them all the time — you don't want to be in your super shoes for ten weeks straight before you race either. I'd practise in some long runs, once a week or once every two weeks.

[29:20] But I wouldn't wear super shoes for interval sessions, easy runs, everything. What about this then — for people financially able to do it, Sebastian Sawe's shoe is basically a five-hundred-dollar one-race shoe, the Adidas Adizero Adios Pro Evo 3. These shoes are getting lighter and lighter, apparently under 100 grams total weight,

[29:50] some brands are now chasing a 50-gram shoe, which is mind-boggling — I read that athletes handed the box sometimes think it's a joke, there's nothing inside, that's how light they are. At the pointy end, we're seeing average runners investing in these shoes too, even though they're less and less designed for wear-and-tear and multiple uses, more for a one-off performance. If someone's decided to invest in a shoe like that, is there any way to prepare for actually running in

[30:20] it? That's true — honestly, I'd still be wearing it at least a few times, even a one-race shoe, I'd still practise a little. But if you've worn a super shoe before and know you like it, maybe you buy that same one two or three weeks before the race and save it, wear it once, or save it entirely for race day because you already know

[30:50] it's going to be fine. I guess I'm talking about people like myself — I've actually never even bought a pair of super shoes. You're kidding? I just don't run enough. I could literally show you a pair of racing flats I still wear that are from the 2000s, I used to stockpile them. To the people at ASICS, the ASICS Gold Coast Marathon — you've got one of your legendary ambassadors right here, that's not right, can we get you some Metaspeed Skys or Edges or something? I just don't

[31:22] think I've trained enough to justify wearing them in a race — I just jog races, pace people, that kind of thing. I don't think I'm worthy of super shoes, but I think everyone else is, if you're training and want to invest in a pair. It's awesome, it gives you that little edge, that pep — getting to race day and having that bit of a boost before you race, putting your super shoes on gives you an edge

[31:53] that you don't have in normal training. I think you want a few little edges like that for race day, because it really helps your mental preparation. I totally agree — from the average runner's perspective, finding those little treats you give yourself, not just on race day but throughout the block, is really important. If you're fuelling yourself right but laying off the booze during training, find a

[32:24] time to have a beer or a wine, whatever it is — keep all this stuff in moderation. I love the running boom, I see it on the streets of the Gold Coast, but I think, and we've talked about this at length on this podcast, there's an influence out there that can push an unhealthy obsession with fitness and health and running. It's important to remember most of us have families, jobs,

[32:54] other things going on — so keeping it all in moderation, and if you want a pair of super shoes for this marathon and can afford it, do it, enjoy the thrill of it. Why deprive yourself over feeling like you're not worthy of them? Unless of course you're Benita Willis. I'm saying definitely buy them — I just think in my own case, with a baby and a three-year-old, I feel like I'm not getting the sleep even

[33:24] now to train enough to justify racing in them yet, but hopefully soon. If you can afford them, go for it, but in moderation, yes — you can actually run worse if your whole prep is so focused you can't relax at all. You've got to find time to relax, have a beer if you've cut it out, take a rest day —

[33:55] there's a lot of people who get so consumed by the training that it takes over their life, and you won't get a good result that way. You get a good result when you enjoy the process and you're not full-on about everything. I can say that from my own running career too — some of my worst races were when I was too obsessed, and when I was more relaxed and enjoying the process, I raced better. I don't fully know how that works, but it's a big part of it. Don't stress that

[34:28] you've got to nail every single one-percenter, or copy exactly what elite athletes do. Everyone out there training for the marathon while holding down jobs and families and everything else — you're doing fantastic. I'm not even at the level of trying to train for something like that right now, so you're doing fantastic. Always remember that in the back of your mind. I like that — and if you can find a physical reminder, a note on the mirror, something on your phone, remember it as you get closer, week by

[34:58] week, ticking things off in training. Remind yourself that this shouldn't be a weight on your shoulders, a looming deadline — it shouldn't feel like you're back at school with a test coming up. It should be a celebration, something you enjoy building up to, because it's a special thing. For some people it might be the only marathon they ever do; for others, you might get bitten by the bug — look at our friend Bronte from last year, I think we might have lost her to marathon running entirely, she's turned into a full CrossFit-Games, Hyrox athlete.

[35:30] She's destroying it, looks amazing, training the house down. I think we might have lost her to the whole world of it. Which is great, you've got to go where your passions take you. Totally, totally — so for anyone exploring the marathon or half marathon journey for the first time, enjoy it. And half marathoners out there, don't let anybody shame you for only running the half — we've had a lot of messages about

[36:02] that, people feeling like they need to justify doing the half. Bring back the glory of the half marathon, honestly. Talk to me about your half marathon experience — have you raced many? Probably my favourite distance, actually, because the half feels more like a 10K to me — you're running right on the edge of not being able to go any faster, pretty much the whole way. Whereas in a marathon you've got to run slow at the start, feeling like you should go faster but holding back. In the half you're running right on that edge of, am I going a bit too quick to run my best. It's one of those races where pacing is really

[36:34] important, and if you get it wrong it can cost you a lot of time. It's an incredible race — I've won the Berlin half marathon, the Great North Run half marathon, which might be one of the biggest ones out there, and I'd say my career really got kick-started coming third at the World Half Marathon Championships in Portugal. I've got fond memories of all of those. I won the Vegas half marathon too, running down the Vegas Strip at night — it started

[37:05] around 7pm, one of the only night races I've run, though I used to run 10K road races in Spain that started at night too. But that half in Vegas was incredible. And it's a race you finish and you're not completely hammered — not like a marathon,

[37:37] where you're wrecked for a week and have to think about what's next. You can race more half marathons than marathons in a year. But it's still a tough event to get right, and it's incredible crossing the line knowing you've done your best.

[38:07] I'd say I was probably better at the half marathon than the marathon through my career, but that's tied to my 10K and 5K speed. If you're training for the half you've really got to think speed is important, whereas for the marathon it's probably more about endurance — though you still need endurance for the half, you need the right mix. Here's a question then — if you're training for the marathon or half and you've got a friend

[38:40] training for the other one, can you still train together? Yeah, definitely — interval sessions together, tempo runs, fartleks, all fine. Your long runs just might not need to be as long. Say you're doing the half and training with someone doing the marathon, and their longest run, three to five weeks out, is 32K — you don't need to run 32K to train for a half. You could do it once and just peel off early, but I'd

[39:10] stop around 25K at the most. Don't think you need to be doing ultra-long long runs — that's some people's approach, but my approach for someone doing the half is that you don't need that volume, it's more important to focus on interval sessions. If you're training for the half, a few Parkruns on Saturdays, or a couple of 10Ks in the prep, are good — races where you're running faster than half marathon pace, so when you get to the half at Gold Coast, race pace feels a bit slower by comparison.

[39:40] Beautiful. So if six-minute Ks is your half pace, try to run 5:30 pace for a 10K, or 5:45 pace. One more thing I want to ask, I'm not sure if you heard Courtney's rules for his own prep, but I want your take on them. I've said on this podcast before, Parkrun is one of the greatest inventions of the last 20 or 30 years — I think it's changed the face of running on this planet.

[40:10] How could people who are regular Parkrunners, training for the marathon or half, incorporate their Saturday morning Parkrun into their training block? Good question — I actually build Parkrun into some of the programmes I write for people. If you're training for the half, one use is a flat-out 5K on Saturday, then your easy long run on Sunday, and the aim of the flat-out 5K isn't quite flat-out, more faster than half marathon

[40:42] pace — it could even be a progression run, where you start your slowest K first and get faster each K, finishing fastest. That's actually harder than it sounds. Start at half marathon pace or slightly quicker, then get faster as it goes on — that's the key point, because a lot of people just go out at 7:30 pace from the gun. If you're doing that half, start faster than goal pace, and build. That's one way, and another

[41:14] way is to combine it with your long run — say your long run is 15K, run 8K, do a solid Parkrun not as fast as half marathon pace but faster than long-run pace, then run a few K after. So you're practising running faster on tired legs. And that becomes your Sunday long run, so you skip the separate Sunday session. With the marathon, you just run a bit longer

[41:46] before the Parkrun — say your marathon long run is 25K, run 15K easy first, then the Parkrun as a 5K surge, then 5K easy after. You're practising running at marathon pace after 15K, running marathon pace on tired legs. Great way to incorporate Parkrun into your training block, especially if you're chasing a streak or a Parkrun number.

[42:16] Some good examples from Benita there — Lace Up Running, for anyone wanting hands-on coaching direct from Benita and her team, go check it out. Courtney's planning to run this too — did you hear any of the rules he's set himself for the prep? For him, I think his goal should be to go to Gold Coast Marathon and have a good run, not do any risky training and get injured.

[42:46] He wants to enjoy his running, get there, have a good run, but not take any risks in the race either, and then push a bit harder at the next one. That's how I'd approach coaching someone who's had a few injuries along the way — if he hadn't had any, ran the 10K, went straight into marathon training, maybe we'd push harder. But he's had a few setbacks, and mentally that's upsetting too.

[43:17] He's still going to run well, it's not like he'll jog it — he'll run well, but it's about sticking to his rules. He said he's going to cross-train more, not run as much, no back-to-back running days, more cross-training instead. And the biggest challenge for him, I think, will be keeping the ego in check —

[43:47] when he goes out with Gold Coast Run Co or other athletes down at the Spit, not letting the old Courtney, the Olympic Courtney, decide he'd better jump onto the front group. Yeah, which is hard, because he's obviously competitive and wants to be the best — and that's exactly why he's been so good, why he's succeeding at everything in life now. He's got that drive and ambition for everything, but he's got a lot on his plate too, a lot of travel. I always say, if you travel through

[44:19] those time zones — say you're heading to Europe, whether it's for work or, in Courtney's case, it is work — you need two or three easy days before doing a hard session. Hold on, this is a good one, because there'll be people listening with international travel coming up over the next eight weeks or whatever, leading into the marathon. Talk us through your advice. I always say count that flight as a hard training session — even though you technically don't do anything, the time-zone change is resetting your body clock. So if you normally do an

[44:50] interval session on a Tuesday and your flight's on the Sunday after your long run, arriving in London Sunday or Monday, definitely don't do a session on Tuesday — just jog, because the flight counts as your hard session for the week. I wouldn't train hard again until Thursday or Friday that week.

[45:20] Great rule of thumb for anyone with international flights planned, whether it's the UK or somewhere else. And I'm not saying the flight has the

[45:51] benefit of a hard session, just the cost without any of the benefit. Great, I love that. It's great to hear Courtney's approaching Gold Coast this year the way a lot of people will be, trying to actually enjoy the race. I really hope, and I said this to him last week, that this build then leads into a properly targeted race, whether that's Melbourne later in

[46:21] the year, or somewhere overseas, some destination event — because I've seen the frustration he's felt personally with the injuries he's been through, I've seen it on his face. It was the day we recorded with Ash and Josh — that was the day he got some potential news about the injury recurring, and I could see it, I wondered through the whole recording what was a bit off with him, and then he told me and it made sense.

[46:54] Yeah, it can be frustrating. Oh, definitely — and we're doing all this to enhance our lives, to enjoy the journey, and he's obviously really competitive, but he's got a lot going on, work, travel, all of it. I always say for a really good marathon prep you need the recovery, the sleep — maybe Melbourne's in a better position for him, travel-wise, work-wise, maybe he'll have a better lead-up. But having said that, having a good experience at Gold Coast,

[47:24] and all the training he's done from whenever he started late last year through to race day, that's all good prep for whatever comes next, even if he goes in a bit harder next time. The base is never wasted, whatever the event, if things don't go to plan you haven't lost the value you've built. Might be a nice way to sign off — since we're ten weeks out, there'll be people out there dealing with niggles,

[47:57] lingering injuries, recent little strains, whatever it might be — any advice for them? Good question, I've got people I coach in that boat too. Number one, don't stress, there's still time. Number two, get on top of any little niggle straight away — see a sports doctor, see a physio, find out exactly what it is and get advice on treatment and whether to keep running.

[48:29] And if you've got a coach, make sure you relay that to them — I always get the physio's read on it as a coach, because I'm not a physio or a sports doctor myself, but if you tell me, I can take their advice and adjust the programme accordingly. Don't train through niggles hoping they'll get better, because if they get worse you're further back than where you started. There's time, but get on top of it and don't do what I did last year, think you can train through it. And if you're at that point now, understand that pulling the pin isn't the end of your running career — remember that great line from late last year's series, not every prep is your prep. There'll be other races, don't think this is your only shot — look at Sebastian Sawe, thought he'd break the record at Berlin last year, turns out it happened in London in April instead. Just quickly to finish — can you believe how fast this race sold out? Amazing, I was stunned when the email came through. Two years ago it was news that they'd hit fifty per cent in a week or two — now the whole thing sells out in two days. It's going to be an amazing atmosphere again. Benita Willis, ambassador for the event and boss of Lace Up Running — go check them out if you want hands-on expert coaching for your prep, whether it's Gold Coast or anything else on the calendar. Great to have you back for the ten-week check-in, we'll let the block unfold and check in again soon. Thank you, Benita. Thank you, it's been fun.