GOLD COAST MARATHON SERIES - 7 WEEKS TO GO!

[00:00] Because you guys were in the radio studio, you just went straight into radio mode — Liam and Brawny are absolutely in their element there. Now we're back in my studio, getting into some serious things. All right, you good? Here we go — In The Beginning runs the Gold Coast Marathon. We are back, full complement today, everyone on deck. Courtney, welcome back. Thank you. I appreciated the banter about me not being here, and I thought, well, maybe I'll just stay out of it. It was a good episode, though. Very good episode. Take a day off—

[00:30] —and you pay the price. Benita, how are you? Good, yeah, feeling pretty good. We'll get to how I'm feeling shortly. But Bronte, hello, the A-grade student of marathon preparation. Stop it. I'm still not writing notes in my app, which I don't know if my coach is going to call me up on. Someone at work called me up on it today — I said, you're not writing your Benita notes. She can see how I'm tracking a lot anyway. This is an interesting thing from a coach's perspective — let's actually ask Benita. We're seven and a half weeks out. Would you like Bronte to start writing your notes?

[01:01] I don't need notes — I think Bronte's going really well. There's no need, because she knows she can let me know if there's anything going on or anything to be worried about. Exactly, that was my reasoning. Didn't she move one of her harder long runs to a Monday? I did, yeah, which is great, because if you need to move something you just let me know, and I adjust the week. She needed to let me know anyway. Seven and a half weeks out — how do you think it's going? Let's start with Bronte. How's she going? Bronte's doing awesome. She's ticking everything off.

[01:33] She does the optional runs if she wants to, but not always, and she's had a few races and has another one coming up — but yeah, she's doing really well and recovering really well. I couldn't ask for any more. I'm even running a bit slower — I'm learning to run a bit slower, which I understand why we do now, especially over the weekend. Twenty-seven Ks at a slower pace than I'm probably used to running, but—

[02:04] —it felt better running at 6:20 pace than it did running a lot less distance a lot faster. So I get it now — it's all coming together. How did that go, actually? Because that was one of the things you asked early on — can't I just get the distance done as quickly as possible? Did you notice something during that 27K as you slowed down — were you still having to hold yourself back from wanting to run faster?

[02:34] I think it was actually that half marathon I did, where I gassed myself right at the very beginning and it was so unenjoyable — probably my least enjoyable run ever. I don't want to feel like that again. So I know the reason we're training this way is so I don't feel like that. It was a good check-in, a reminder to follow the programme — there's a reason Benita is so good, and we're

[03:06] lucky to be following it. And now the proof is in the pudding — is it getting easier? Is running getting easier? It is. To say '27 Ks' so casually, and to be able to tell people I do that now, is remarkable. And being able to run in different conditions — that's something I've really been testing myself on the last couple of weeks, because some advice I got was: run in it all. You don't know what the weather's going to be like when

[03:38] you wake up on race day, and you don't know how you're going to be feeling. So even on Saturday night, I had a ninety-minute run to do, and it was pouring with rain here on the Gold Coast. But I thought, who knows — you could wake up on race day and it's raining, you've just got to be able to run. So sixteen Ks in the rain, and I actually liked it. I'm a freak now — a freak for rain. All in all, thinking back over the last few years of Gold Coast

[04:09] Marathon, it's generally rained for the half and then cleared up, but we've had pretty average weather for what should be a good part of the year. Yeah, we've had a lot of rain, and I think you've got to practise running in it. I always find wearing a cap or a visor helps, because the rain can really hit your face. And even the shoes — when I was racing, there were particular flats I'd wear that had more grip on wet roads, where other shoes made me slide. So it's good to practise. You just never know. I feel confident in it now, which is really nice, and

[04:41] the body feels okay. What shoes are you running in, by the way — you were having drama with the nylon things the other week, weren't you? The Cloud Monsters — I haven't gone back to them yet, they really gave my calves a rough trot. I'm all in on the Sauconys now. Right back on them. But I also rotate with the Asics for the longer, slower, bouncier runs, and yeah, that's kind of it.

[05:11] Are you any closer to picking the shoe you'll actually race in, or still deciding? No, this is what's freaking me out this week — some of the people I'm doing the marathon with are already sorted on their shoes, and I don't know what to do. I really like the Sauconys. What would you recommend timeline-wise, Benita? All right, so seven and a half weeks out — when should Bronte have decided on that shoe?

[05:42] If she's buying a special race shoe and wearing it in, doing some runs in it — what's the rough timeline there? I think about four weeks out or so. It's good to have a practice race coming up, but probably not in brand-new shoes. If you've worn a pair before and you're buying the exact same one, you don't need more than a week of runs to wear it in. But if it's a shoe you haven't worn before, you definitely need a few of the longer runs to test it.

[06:12] I think blisters are a big thing — you don't want to be getting blisters in the race. And you need to practise at race pace as well as make sure it feels good jogging too. Sometimes an actual race is a good simulation for trying new shoes. But this one you've got coming up is only in a week, so — this one I did buy new shoes for, because it's a trail and road run. What have you gone with? Is this the GC30?

[06:42] Along the main beach? Yep. These are the Saucony Endorphin Pros. That's popular at the moment. These are my first proper race-day shoes — I've seen all the bouncy race-day shoes everyone else is wearing. What made you choose them? I've got to ask. I love the brand — I just really like how I feel in all my runs when I wear them. Is it Zaccone or Saucony?

[07:13] Well, if you're Courtney, it's 'Zaccone,' and if you're everybody else who's sent us threatening messages about it, it's Saucony. I love Zaccone, I really do. But if you're interested in getting an actual relationship with the brand, it's Saucony. There you go. I don't know, I just really like the feel of those shoes when I run — sometimes I don't love the feel of other brands, whereas these feel really consistent. And I read that they were good trail and road shoes. That's enough for me, right?

[07:44] And Saucony are a really good running brand — some of these shoe companies make shoes for all sorts of events and sports. I was actually sponsored by Saucony before my last Olympics, back when they were just starting to come out. I feel like they're really popular now. I love them. What about the brand itself, then — you said you just love the brand? Sorry, Courtney's gone into full marketing mode.

[08:14] No, I love it, it's good to dig into these things — because I want to talk about these shoes, my friends, I want to. I genuinely like the feel when I'm running in them — they just feel really reliable. I don't have to worry about how it's going to make my body feel, during the run or in recovery — I find them really consistent, and a good performer. But as for the brand itself — honestly, I don't know much about it, or how I even got into them.

[08:46] Yeah, that's what I was going to ask — who influenced the decision? I think it's probably someone I talk a lot about running with — my producer at the radio session, Harry. He got into running around the same time I did, and he's a total nerd when it comes to shoes — shut up, Harry, if you're listening. He does really like the podcast, and I go to him sometimes when I have questions about shoes, because he actually does his research. Before the GC50 last year, we were both doing the half marathon and he recommended trying a shoe with a carbon plate in it, which I

[09:19] didn't even know was a thing at the time. So it was the Saucony Endorphin Speed 4 I tried, and I thought, I didn't know shoes could make you run like that — it just hooked me in. What colourway did you go with? I went black — whatever was on sale, honestly, that's usually what gets me. It's funny — for non-runners, you probably don't get this, but I still remember the first time I ran in a carbon-plated shoe,

[09:50] mine were the Asics Metaspeed, and it blew my mind. I was like, oh my God, this is cheating — how is this even allowed? I would've made the Olympics if someone had told me about these six years earlier. That's so true — that's exactly the feeling you get as a jogger the first time you put them on. Definitely. Well, that's good, sounds like you're on your way. While we're talking about

[10:21] your kit — what about the rest of your outfit? What are you running in? Courtney and I have talked about this before on other episodes, about running kit for blokes, but we've never had a woman on to talk about it from that perspective. Do you already know what you're wearing on race day? I think I know what shorts I'm running in — I'm a tight-shorts-with-a-crop kind of person. Haven't had any issues with chafing, touch wood, so I think—

[10:55] they're a really good brand, I find them pretty reliable. So probably Doyoueven shorts and a crop. But as I keep running, I'm losing weight too, so I'm having to buy new activewear — a lot of what I have now probably won't fit right for the marathon. That's not a bad thing at all. The other thing that jumped to mind — the London Marathon the other week, I can't remember her name, but there was a Nike runner copping a lot of flak. Oh yeah, the British runner.

[11:27] Yeah, I read about that — they were saying she was running in what looked like bikini bottoms, not sure what they're officially called. I couldn't believe it. It's ridiculous. Were they that different to the briefs you'd have worn back in the day? Same era — I remember when I was at the Australian Institute of Sport, Jane Fleming designed all the Australian kit, and the briefs were basically like G-strings. That's just how they were, and everyone ran in them — this was 1997.

[11:59] And people didn't say anything about it. Crazy. Well, apparently she shouldn't have been running in them. It's all that usual nonsense of people not having anything better to do than target professional athletes over what they're wearing. Anyway — shoes. Sounds like you've got three and a half weeks, still plenty of time to finish your shoe shopping. Yeah, I think I'll see how I go with the Sauconys this weekend and then commit to a race-day shoe.

[12:31] There's something else I wanted to follow up on — last time we spoke you explained at length how much you hated interval sessions. Have you done any since? No intervals. And that's because — you did your harder long run on a Monday instead of a Saturday or Sunday, right, so normally you'd do intervals on Wednesday, but I don't like putting that hard long run too close to intervals. So that week, we just took the intervals out. Why do you like separating them like that?

[13:01] Just because you need at least — I'd say a couple of days between that hard, specific long run and something else hard. If you take too much of a risk — say there's only one rest day between them, and rest could be an easy day, a full rest day, or cross-training — if you only have one day, you're pushing the body again too soon after a hard or long run. I've made that mistake myself as an athlete, and with people I've coached. I always try to leave at least two full easy days between

[13:34] the hard long run and the next hard session. So that's why I took it out for Bronte this week — it would've been too much. It's just not worth pushing it like that. So what do you do the day after that hard, specific marathon session? For a lot of people I'd give a rest day. Bronte generally has a rest day, or some cross-training or walking — not jogging, though some people do, it depends how many days a week they're running. But usually it's a rest day or cross-training.

[14:05] We're about four weeks into this now, and just hearing you talk about race day — the shoes, the outfit, even the weight loss you're planning for — makes it feel like it's coming up close. Is it getting exciting for you now, or does it still feel far off? I think I'm quite nervous — I'm really intrigued to see how I perform this Sunday.

[14:37] I really spooked myself with my half marathon performance a couple of weeks ago. I redeemed it a bit with the 27K, and again on Saturday night with the 16K, so I just need to chill out when it comes to racing. I think this Saturday is my last real chance to see how I go in a race environment, and hopefully put into practice everything we've talked about so I don't blow my own chance.

[15:07] Let's get into it — what's the race? Thirty Ks, main beach, trail and road. Have you run this course before? I haven't, but this is where we train every Tuesday, so half of it's literally on the road — good flat road, probably as fast as you'll find anywhere. Are you familiar with the trail section? It's undulating in there — even just running on it, it's kind of a cinder surface, a bit clay-like and rocky. You'll get some slip in there

[15:40] as well, so don't expect to run as fast through that section. I remember running up at Cooma with Michael Shelley, and he'd always say you could lose five to seven seconds per kilometre on that kind of surface out in the hills — don't get down on yourself over going a fair bit slower through there. Yeah, that's fine. I'm so ankle-conscious — any time I did trail running last year, I only did a couple of races and thought, this isn't for me,

[16:10] because my ankles were so weak. They're stronger now, so I think I'm okay with slowing down a bit for it. The trail's not too bad in there, actually — pretty good underfoot, a bit of sand here and there, but touch wood you shouldn't have any ankle problems. It is unexpectedly hilly though, especially once you're tired — and for some reason, because it runs out and back, you often get a tailwind on the way out and think

[16:40] it's so easy, and then on the way back you're wondering where that hill came from — you didn't even notice it going out. And this will be 30 Ks, the longest you've ever run. It's a great way to find out, though, because it's great to have a guide for how you're going without worrying too much about pacing — just run to feel. You want to hold the same kind of effort on the trail as you will on the road. And I think that's where Benita will jump in for sure, around the

[17:10] pacing, because that's what I'm curious about — how do you approach pacing between the trail and the road section, especially with others racing this as their lead-up race too? It's a hard one, because the races I'd normally suggest leading into Gold Coast Marathon would just be flat road half marathons or similar. But I think anything around 15K upward — this one's 30K — is good practice. First of all, you're practising what you'll do the morning of, or the night before, Gold Coast Marathon —

[17:42] what you eat the night before, what time you wake up, what you eat, what you do just before the race starts. We're treating this as a practice run. And like that Gold Coast Running Festival race you did a few weeks ago — even though that was a bad experience, having experiences like that actually helps you learn what not to do. You don't want to make the same mistake at Gold Coast Marathon, so it was actually a good thing for you to go through and learn from — I don't think you'll make

[18:13] that mistake again, going out too fast. So for this one — the trail section is all about running on feel, it's not about hitting a specific pace like 6:25. I wouldn't worry about that at all. It's about getting through the 30K, thinking of it as practice for Gold Coast Marathon, not looking at your watch and stressing about your average pace across the trail. There's nothing to prove there. But once you're on the road, that's when we're practising marathon pace — and it should still be a bit

[18:44] slower early on, conservative rather than aggressive. And even coming back on the trail, it's about effort, not stressing over your watch — because one thing you don't want to do in marathon training is repeat the exact same session week after week, always chasing 'can I beat what I did last week.' So something different like this is good, it changes things up. Do you have a sense of pacing yet that you'd give her?

[19:15] For the road section, I'd be very conservative early on — something around 6:25 for marathon pace, and I wouldn't go faster than that even if it feels easy. We're just practising and holding back a bit.

[19:49] So the plan would be to track it on the Garmin and see how it goes, and after the last one, go: right, that was 6:25, I'm not going to push harder than that? I'd really like to aim for 6:25, maybe 6:20 — it's a bit of a guess, but with this kind of race, given the trail element makes it harder to judge, I'd say if it were a flat half marathon we might run marathon pace for the first 15K and a bit faster after. But for this one, it's about judging on feel. And remember, this is the longest you've ever run, so we don't want to put extra pressure on it pacing-wise. If it comes out a little slower or a little faster, that's fine.

[20:21] We'll see how it goes. That 27K run you did — you averaged around 6:03 pace, which was really solid, on-off across about eleven of the kilometres, so you're in pretty good shape. It's just coming together. I'd back yourself, but also remind yourself it's just a training run and not put excessive pressure on it. It's exciting even just thinking about the fact that it'll be the furthest you've ever run. So many people, when they get into these programmes and look

[20:52] ahead, realise, oh, I'm doing 27K and I've never run further than 19K — and that mental jump of, at the end of this I'll have run further than ever before, and now I get to tell people I ran 30K. Exactly — 27 felt uneven, so a nice, even 30 will be good. Quickly going back to a few points about race-day preparation — clearly Bronte's treating this as a proper training run, Benita, which is great. What time are you going to bed the night before? Oh, since it's a training run—

[21:22] this is homework now — probably asleep by ten. By ten, okay, we're fine with that, coach. And I'd say the night before doesn't matter as much, but what about two nights before, on the Friday? Good question — probably cancel any plans, no more doom-scrolling, usually around 10 to 10:30. I'm basically a nana — I play paddle tennis and that's about it. Well, you've got more of a life than us, fair enough. And breakfast?

[21:53] This is a training run, so — coffee. Usually just coffee. But surely you're not planning to skip breakfast on actual race morning? I don't usually... Benita, definitely — start practising now, this is a training run, that's what it's for. Because we're about to run 30 kilometres. I'll take some snacks with me, but yeah, that's something worth practising going forward — even something like a crumpet and honey, a banana, some oats or cereal, though some

[22:27] people don't like milk or yoghurt with dairy in general. But even a piece of toast with some jam — you need something in your stomach, especially for the marathon, but even before this 30K. I'd eat at least an hour and a half, a couple of hours before the start, and take a gel just before the gun, within the last five to ten minutes — gels absorb quickly and won't cause any issues.

[22:57] So, five to ten minutes before, have a gel? Right, and I'd practise that even on some easy runs beforehand. You've never done that? No. And you can only run on weekend mornings, since you can't run early in the week. So that's something I'd start practising going forward — just some nutrition rehearsal. Yes, coach. It's harder for you because you'd normally run in the afternoon. I know — but up until this point, you'd have gotten up on marathon morning, had a black coffee, and gone out to run, and it would have felt terrible, because I've had that

[23:29] before. So this weekend, actually try some nutrition — eat your breakfast properly, and have a gel five to ten minutes out. That's fine. Do you warm up before runs? Usually just a bit of a stretch. And for this race, we'd use the first ten to fifteen minutes as the warm-up, since this is your longest run — you don't need to be running too much beforehand. Before the actual marathon we'll talk through a proper warm-up, but for this one I'd warm up as the race starts, because we don't want a 30K race to turn

[24:01] into a 35K effort before it's even begun. I'll jump in here, because warm-up is really important — maybe we're skipping it this week, but for anyone racing this weekend, or doing a half — I think there's a Brisbane half coming up too that a lot of people use as a lead-up race — how do you balance getting a warm-up in with getting to the start line in time to secure your position? Everyone's worried about getting to the start in time — that's probably not something you had to worry about in your career, but a lot of your athletes now would

[24:31] have that problem. How do you approach the warm-up in that situation? I'd say five to seven minutes of jogging, fairly short, with a few stretches and a couple of strides at race pace. But when you're trying to get into your corral — I've had athletes at the London Marathon who had to catch a bus for an hour from the city out to the start. Same at the Boston Marathon, these point-to-point races. So if you're staying in a hotel near the start at the Gold Coast

[25:03] Marathon, maybe you jog a bit from your hotel — but once you're in your corral, make sure your jog and warm-up are done. Have enough layers on to stay warm, you can jog on the spot a little, but the priority is warming the body up a bit while staying warm enough, without stressing that you have to be actively running right up to the start. You do have to be ready fairly early, though. I hadn't thought about it until just now, but that's probably one of the more stressful things

[25:34] for runners chasing a time in particular — you're used to warming up properly for every session, and then suddenly at the race you realise you might not be able to move for 45 minutes if you want a good spot. It's something worth having a strategy for, and getting comfortable with not being able to run 45 minutes to an hour out, depending on the event. That's a good point. And I always say, know

[26:05] where the toilets are, because so many people get to the start corral, realise they need to go, and end up stressfully running off and then trying to get back in. So that's another thing worth practising. I think with these big races, the first few kilometres are basically a warm-up anyway — you can't run very fast at the start regardless, because of the crowd, so that's not something to stress about, it's part of warming the body up and just

[26:36] settling into it. That's a good way to think about it. Have you got your toilet strategy sorted? Black coffee, that's my toilet strategy. There you go — this is TMI, but I've got fairly lazy bowels, so it's not usually an issue for me unless I have too much

[27:08] black coffee. I'm really hoping my body doesn't flip the script on marathon day and I suddenly start experiencing things I don't normally deal with — but for now, touch wood. I'll send you a link after the show today of Paula Radcliffe at the London Marathon — active bowels, not lazy ones, mid-race, under a table on live TV. Crazier things have happened. Between the two of you, waking up at 3am for a race starting at 6am is basically like starting your day at midday for me, with the early radio start and everything.

[27:38] That was genuinely a real adjustment for me — even my bathroom routine, since my alarm now goes off at 3:30. For years before that I was working afternoons, so — you don't need the details — my usual time used to be around 8:30. Now I've had to bring it forward five hours, and my body's had to adjust. That's a big shift.

[28:10] It really is. A number of the runners I coach have talked about toilet anxiety too — whether to go before the start, and it plays on their mind if they didn't and end up having to use a portaloo on course. It's definitely something people talk about a lot. There's always that nervous pre-race toilet visit at Noosa Triathlon too — you think you're done, and then the nerves kick in again right as they're about to marshal you to the start, and you're thinking, oh no,

[28:43] round two — and then you look at the line and think, what am I going to do? Your body betrays you. Anyway, good luck, I hope your bowels stay lazy. Thank you. Just before we move on — Bronte, part of this twelve-week lead-up, you've already run the half a couple of weeks ago at the Gold Coast Running Festival, and now you've got this 30K race this weekend. For anyone out there who hasn't

[29:14] got a race locked in as part of their programme, is there a way around it, some way to simulate a race as part of marathon prep, especially for a first-timer? That's a good question — not everyone has to race, though it's ideal to have one to practise things. If you don't have a race, I'd schedule something between three and five weeks out, somewhere between 15K and 20K — a genuine hard effort, not necessarily

[29:45] something you'd directly compare to a past race. If you're just running it solo as an effort, maybe run three-quarters of it at marathon pace to practise that, then push a bit faster at the end. Whether you're doing that alone or with someone — a friend on a bike, or running alongside — that really helps, because it pushes you a bit. So doing something like that is good, and just make sure

[30:17] you build in three or four easy days either side of it as well. Racing forces you to do that naturally, but when you're just training solo, it's easy to feel like you have to train and train without any easy stretch. So go lighter on the interval session heading into the weekend where you'll do that hard effort — it could be 15K, 20K, 12K, some odd distance.

[30:47] Go pretty hard there, then a short jog and a few strides the following day or two, and don't go hard again until later the next week — maybe Thursday or Friday. So if you're mid-block right now without a race lined up, look at the next fortnight to a month and schedule a session like Benita's just described, and treat it as your race-practice effort.

[31:17] and really push in the last section, but not flat out the whole way. If I'm a complete newcomer to this and don't have anyone coaching me, is there a guide for what the pacing strategy should look like — say I'm eight weeks out and doing a practice long run? That first section you mentioned, around half-marathon or marathon pace — what should it actually feel like?

[31:48] What am I supposed to be feeling? Like Bronte the other week when she went out for that race — how do I know I'm running easy enough, at the right pace? It's one of those things that should feel like you could hold that pace for over three hours, which is a hard thing to gauge, but you've got to make sure you're not running at a pace where you're thinking, wow, I'm going really well, watching your watch and going fast — can you actually hold that for three hours? Is your heart rate

[32:18] sitting around 150, or wherever your zone is — heart rate's a rough guide too, and I know we've talked about that before. If at any point you're thinking, God, this is starting to feel hard, you're definitely pushing too hard for that stage. And you should be doing it in a way where, say you decide to run 15K, the first 10K feels easy and you're not pushing to get there, with the last 5K a touch harder — not the other way around, starting fast and fading.

[32:48] You want to be going slow enough that you feel like you're going almost too slow. Have you heard any good cues or stories about how different marathon runners approach that first 30K of a marathon? Michael Shelley used to tell me, when he'd go into the London Marathon for example, to treat the first 32K almost like sightseeing — wanting to take in everything happening around him, and that's how he knew he was going easy enough to then run home strong over the last 10K. As long as I could

[33:19] identify people cheering on the side of the road, that told me I was comfortable enough at that mark. Have you got one of your own, or heard others? I used to think of it, in a much more boring way, as sitting on a bus — the first 30K is the bus ride, and once your stop's coming up, you get ready to press the button. Once you press it, the light flashes and you know you're in that last 12K. Once you're getting ready to get off, that's when you're in the final stretch. I also think about it when the marathon starts hurting —

[33:49] the first 30K should just be cruising, it shouldn't hurt yet. But when it does start hurting, think about a 12K session you've done somewhere familiar, like Broadbeach, and think of landmarks along that route rather than dwelling on how much pain you're in — something familiar to you, not necessarily on the actual course. It's like flicking a switch into a new phase of the race — this marker means the next stage has begun. I never thought of it as sightseeing before, but the way I describe it to people I

[34:21] work with is about being as relaxed and even as 'bored' as you can be, like sitting on a bus. I love that analogy. Really good one. And also thinking about people who've inspired you in your life — every 5K, think of a new person who's inspired you and move on to the next one at the next marker, because five-K blocks are good segments, and that's usually where the water stations are anyway. But one thing about the marathon is you can't dwell on the last 5K and think,

[34:52] 'that one felt terrible, I wish I hadn't done that' — you've got to forget it and move on to the next block. Breaking it up like that has worked really well for me. We need to mark this down for a later episode, maybe closer to race day, a whole segment on race-specific strategy, because I loved the bus analogy and the Michael Shelley sightseeing story — but I also love the idea of different mental strategies to break the race up, because I think that's something first-timers particularly might

[35:23] struggle with, especially if their only goal is finishing. That mental fatigue that sets in during a marathon is real. I remember running Goldie last year with the 3:20 pace group, and honestly, listening to you now, I think the first 28K felt exactly like you've described. Then I got to the section where the course loops back past the start line.

[35:56] and in my head, I'd been running comfortably with the 3:20 group the whole way and thought, I feel good, I'll push on a bit and see what's there for the last 12K. We hit 30K and suddenly the 3:20 group started pulling away from me — I was thinking, why are they speeding up? No, I was slowing down. That's exactly that moment you're describing — where the light comes on and the race really begins, and I just didn't have anything left to give. What was your mark, 30 or 32K?

[36:29] I'd say 30K, though I'll admit I never really raced it in that deliberate way — it was more something to think about after the fact. My fastest marathon, for what it's worth, was a big positive split. But my best marathon, the one I ran in Houston to qualify for the London Olympics in 2012, was really even the whole way through. So I can't say I've ever consciously accelerated through a marathon like that — it's very hard to actually do — but you think about those things in that sense.

[36:59] I think that's laid out, in the clearest terms I've heard, everything I need to know about approaching marathon day — I hadn't thought about it like that, and now it feels almost achievable. I don't want to get ahead of myself, but thinking about the first 30K the way you've both described makes it feel a lot less scary, because that's what it's supposed to be — cruisy, sightseeing. That's

[37:29] definitely shifted my mindset. You don't want to be thinking, at any stage in that first 30K, 'oh no, this is starting to get hard.' And that 'acceleration' at 30K isn't a booster button where you suddenly fly to the finish — it's just that you have to work that much harder to hold the same pace, because that's where fatigue sets in. And mentally, you don't want to be too locked-in and focused at the start — you want to stay as relaxed as possible and not thinking about the race itself.

[38:00] The worst thing you can do is watch every kilometre marker. I've run races in Germany where they mark every single kilometre, one through forty-two, and that's exactly what you don't want. That's very German, isn't it — precise, marking every kilometre, making sure you always know. Gold Coast Marathon doesn't really do that, and we don't need it. Let's move on to you, Liam. I was hoping we'd avoid this for as long as possible, frankly. Last time we spoke, things

[38:31] were starting to improve, and then in between I tried a light tempo session and my calf hated it. We went back to simple cross-training, I've been seeing the physio regularly, and as of recording I'm twenty-four hours out from a three-kilometre run at an easy pace, into a forty-five-minute bike ride, and the calf feels fine today. So it's pulled up well. What's the plan from here, Benita?

[39:02] You did really well to just cross-train for the week after that last setback, and then you saw Liam the physio — who sent me an email, which is great, it's good to hear a bit more detail about what's going on. By the way, Bronte, I feel like such an athlete now, having a coach and a physio communicating about me. No heroics, I feel amazed. We just need a psychologist now, Liam. My wife will be next on the email thread. Liam said when you can do fifteen to twenty calf raises on each

[39:33] side, you're right to start jogging again, and I had a few follow-up questions — asked whether he should be running slower than five-minute pace, that kind of thing — and Liam said yes, slower than five-minute pace, and keep the cross-training up, whatever you like, so bike or elliptical works too. Oh, cool. You'll be happy to know I'll be back on the bike then — that thing is so boring. It was funny — when you sent that email about being able to jog again once you passed the calf-raise test, I was down at Burleigh Beach watching the surf with

[40:03] my wife and kids, and I just said to Alana, my wife, hold onto the kids for a sec, and went and ran up the path and started doing calf raises. She was like, what are you doing? I said, I'm allowed to run now, I passed the fifteen-to-twenty test. And that was on the weekend. I think — we've gone backwards once already, so what I don't want is for you to go backwards again, because that's a really hard thing mentally,

[40:33] especially when you're trying to get back into shape for a race you're targeting. We just don't want to take steps back. So the plan this week, which is also what Liam the physio suggested, is running every second day, increasing volume but not pace. We'll stay on the easy, slower-than-five-minute pace. And I guess the other part is, we don't have to decide today, but at what point do we start setting a new

[41:04] time goal? Because I'm in that odd phase where, unlike Bronte, whose goal is just completion, I've run marathons before, so I know I can finish one — I'm still motivated by PBs and time goals, I'm not kidding myself that sub-three is realistic given the lack of preparation, and I'm not going to convince myself it's still achievable, even though back on episode one of this series you told me it was probably going to be unachievable anyway.

[41:34] That was before your injury, though. She's always right, in the end. So once the return to running and the volume progression are going well, when do you think we start looking at pacing? I think, like I said last time, in a few weeks — probably going to say that again, just because we've gone backwards. For you especially it's about getting healthy first, and knowing you can handle even a half marathon, because you've

[42:04] missed some training, but you've still got a lot of background and mileage behind you. It's about readjusting your expectations and staying positive — that's the best approach. But I also don't want to push the volume up so fast that you take another step back and end up out of the race entirely. So it's about being able to run consistently first. This stage is genuinely hard mentally, because you've got the marathon in mind but have to go slowly — it's a really hard mental

[42:36] spot to be in. It's amazing having you here to talk me through it, even without fully understanding what it's like day to day. I want to ask you something — remember back at the start of this series, In The Beginning Runs The Gold Coast Marathon, I asked if you thought I could run sub-three, and you said it'd be really tough. My PB was at last year's Gold Coast Marathon, a 3:21 — do you think I'm capable of a PB this time? I think it's going to be really

[43:06] hard, just because we've missed a chunk of training and I don't want to rush it — I'd say maybe have a real crack at it later in the year at another marathon. This one is about getting to the start, finishing, and staying healthy. Yeah, but it's so hard adjusting goals at this stage, when we're only running fifteen minutes at a time — in a couple of days I'll literally only be running fifteen minutes, while you're out there running thirty kilometres. How does that feel

[43:39] mentally? Honestly, frustrating. But Courtney's actually been a surprising source of perspective through all this. You haven't been able to run for what, eight weeks now?

[44:12] Eight weeks, and the fact that you haven't really been that frustrated — you seem to have come to peace with it. I don't know that I've fully gotten there, but I've been talking to Britt about it recently, when we had Britt Kayling from Gold Coast Physio on the show. I described it to her off-air before we recorded — it's like we brought in Benita as this new race director, with two cars in the garage, you and me. One car — mine — is running perfectly, doing everything she asks. The other one is a lemon,

[44:43] and she's standing there going, what even is this car, it doesn't work. That'd be a great season of Drive to Survive. I've basically been trying to fix a Toyota Corolla. Call me Oscar Piastri, then. Oh, wow — you're Piastri and I'm Ricciardo, great smile, but nobody wants to give me a drive. It's been frustrating, but at the same time, the other thing, and it's a bit like radio really, in

[45:17] that as long as you don't quit, you'll come good, right? Running's like that too — it might not happen this race, or in this preparation, but if you keep at it, you'll have your day, your race, your moment. I've genuinely come to accept that Gold Coast 2025 isn't going to be my marathon, isn't going to be everything I wanted it to be, and that's okay. It's unfortunately really common, and there'll be plenty of people listening who are in the same boat — you can't treat any one race as the be-all and end-all, there's

[45:48] always another one, but the body doesn't always cooperate. Honestly, I don't think I've ever gone into a marathon with this level of base fitness while also putting no pressure on myself, and I'm in that place now. There'll probably be people listening in a similar spot, whatever their situation — injury, personal circumstances, whatever it is. If you're like me, seven and a half weeks out and having to throw the original plan out

[46:19] the window from a timing perspective, I wouldn't say all hope is lost — I'm now looking at Gold Coast Marathon as an opportunity to just enjoy the run and reassess goals. There'll be plenty of people in the same boat — some will reassess and drop to the half or the ten, others will look at a different marathon down the track. But the silver lining, the glass-half-full way to look at it, is that I got the injury when I did — because if it had happened in six, four, or

[46:50] five weeks' time, I wouldn't be taking the start line at all. So if I'm looking at the positive, it's that this happened with enough time left to actually get right and be back on a start line this year, which is great. Benita's given us a heap of great information again today. Bronte, I think I might come down and watch you on the weekend.

[47:20] Sunday, right? No pressure, no pressure. Hold on, what time's the race actually? These are the sort of things I look at

[47:50] the night before. Well, depending what my schedule's like, maybe I'll even run some of it with you. Here we go — I'll come have a little go, though you're a headphones runner, aren't you? I am. Over-the-ear ones? Yeah. We've talked about this before — how many people run in big over-the-ear headphones?

[48:22] They hurt my right ear sometimes, the pressure builds up and I have to take them off. I think you're crazy for running in those. We're going to have to sort you out with something else before the marathon — open up a whole other world of running headphones for you. I've just been running with what I've got. Nothing wrong with that, but there are better options. What are my options? Oh, there's a whole world we can open up for you.

[48:52] No, I've just been running with these. They're shocking, honestly. If I wore a pair of those big over-ear ones for one run, I'd never put them on again — I sweat so much. Oh yeah, they get disgusting. This weekend, Bronte, on your 30K, you'll definitely get an appearance from Courtney, and maybe one from me too. That's so cute — Team Bronte, you're our horse in this race now. We need someone to actually run the marathon and succeed. Oh my God, the