EP50 - SYDNEY MARATHON DEBRIEF

[00:00] In the Beginning, episode 50 - we're coming up on our 12 month anniversary. Coming up to a year. Did we get there yet? No, we're not there yet, it could blow up after this week, Liam! Let's title this one Sydney Marathon Debrief, post-Sydney - this is where we're at after our first ever live show. It was a cracker. And look, I'm wearing a bit of merch for those watching the video - AG1. We can't thank you guys enough

[00:31] for making the effort to get us down there and give us the opportunity not only to be a part of your Sydney Marathon plans, but to sit down with Andy Buchanan for an hour. He's a good talker, isn't he? OK, let's start with you first - you were on fire, your reaction and your quips were just quick. I mean, you carried me that morning, 100%. I'll take the compliment.

[01:01] I'd also say it's the same way when we go trail running in Nerang and you carry me through there, because that's your background as an elite athlete, and this is radio - that's what I've been doing for the last 13 years. No, you were amazing. Andy was also amazing, he's a great chat. I want to hear more - and look, we've laid the tracks so Andy knows that next time he's up on the Gold Coast, there's an open door policy to the podcast for him, because even after we stopped

[01:32] recording that morning, we kept talking to him, and there were so many more things we could do - three one-hour episodes wouldn't have been enough. Plus I need to take him running on the Gold Coast and show him Nerang. Gold Coast's running reputation is in your hands now, Andy Buchanan! But yeah, there were still so many things to talk about. And look, as we record this, we're still counting down to the World Athletics Championships in Japan. We're crossing everything for him that this injury comes together and allows

[02:02] him to run at Worlds. He gave us the exclusive, really - when he first told us about his injury on the podcast, I saw your face go white, because what he was explaining, I'd just been through myself over the last year. I'll talk a bit more about that when we get to running, but I had another scare last week right before we went down to Sydney. I'd taken a few days off because

[02:32] everything's good, we're still rolling, but I did have a little bit of a scare. So I know a bit of what he's thinking, though it's a whole different scenario for me since I'm not going for the World Champs. Again, if you haven't listened to it and this is your first episode of In the Beginning, welcome - go back and listen to the last few weeks, because the stories Andy gave us, like the Eliud Kipchoge story, I've been telling people like they're my own. He gave so much, and we're going to

[03:02] have him back on another time when we can talk to him more, and to Erica and Clint as well - they were brilliant. I've had great feedback from people wanting to hear more in the space Erica started to go into. Women's nutrition is definitely not our expertise, but it's something we want to cover more on the show in future for those of you interested in that area. Let's talk Sydney Marathon - the TCS major, major number seven, the first one ever held in Australia. Did you watch it,

[03:34] because you flew back - you flew out of Sydney after we finished up. Did you get a chance to watch much of it? I went out for a run myself, out for a long run in the forest on Sunday morning, came home and watched the last half an hour to get an idea of what was going on - it was on Channel 7, all the usual Australian athletics crew commentating. What I will say, and I know you've said this to me too, the major had to be Sydney. It had to be. That finish line, just like the Sydney Olympics in 2000,

[04:06] when the triathlon was the first event to finish down there at the Opera House - that's what internationals recognise as Australia. Fortunately or unfortunately, that's the fact and it can't be anywhere else. This is where I need to put my hand up, I got it wrong - a little under 12 months ago we sat here in one of these episodes and I half-heartedly argued Gold Coast should be the major marathon. Why isn't Gold Coast ambitious enough to push to be the major marathon here in

[04:37] Australia? It can't be anywhere else. Gold Coast is where you come to run in paradise - if you're a runner chasing a PB, if you want a great family holiday built around it, if you want some running tourism, I couldn't recommend the Gold Coast enough. But if you want to run a major big-city marathon, it had to be Sydney. I've had that revelation, and I'll go back - I went down there on marathon morning and I'll tell you a bit about that.

[05:08] But on the Saturday - you flew out on the Friday and came back to the Gold Coast, I stuck around, and Friday night I went down to the expo. For anybody who's been to a major event expo, these things are huge - you follow the path and visit every single booth on the way. The ASICS section alone at the Sydney Marathon Expo was the biggest sports store I've ever been in. It was huge.

[05:38] It was enormous. The expo was great, but Saturday morning I got up early - it was my birthday. I got up early and put my shoes on, and the great thing was my wife wasn't getting in until Saturday afternoon, so I had the whole morning. I threw the shoes on and started running, planning to get down to the unofficial Run Club shakeout run over in Kirribilli to see what that was like - they'd teamed up with New Balance, a big run club with 60-odd thousand followers on Instagram, a big brand like New Balance. I wanted to see what that looked

[06:09] like, and it didn't disappoint - it was huge. You called me, showed me over FaceTime, and it was a couple of thousand people for a 4K shakeout run. It had all the things we love about running - energy, different shoes, great vibes, positivity - and all the things you and I don't love, like people running with boom boxes on their backs. Oh really? Yeah, yeah, there were some people carrying

[06:39] handheld ones, and then one fellow came past with a full-blown backpack speaker. And if I'm going to be critical, and let's be honest about this, I saw the novelty in it, but my flag on it was that he was running really quick - I ran with him for a bit. Now, I didn't have a marathon to run the next day, but I ran with him for a bit and he was running sub-4:20 pace with a speaker on his back. So with all the hype and excitement, I was running along

[07:10] thinking, this is fast - if there's anybody here just planning to get through tomorrow, you're running too fast for them. I get you're trying to build excitement, but this is quick running. I got down to the activation in the Rocks because you'd run over the Harbour Bridge, and that's when I had the realisation that Sydney had to be the major - running across the Harbour Bridge, I passed two girls, one clearly doing the marathon, the other wasn't, and the one who wasn't looked to her friend

[07:40] and said, that's where you're going to be tomorrow, out there in the middle of the road running over the Harbour Bridge. And at that point I looked down, saw the Opera House, and thought, it had to be Sydney. It just had to be. So anyway, I got down into the Rocks activations, front and centre - it was a saturation point on another level. So go through your morning, because you're talking about the unofficial run there, but Black Sheep had a run down there too, and they looked like they had a thousand people, you know, a

[08:11] thousand - I don't know, we're guessing at numbers here. But if 35,000 people were competing in the marathon, to some extent there would've been 20,000-plus out and about on Saturday morning doing something. What struck me most from that unofficial shakeout run with its 2,000-plus runners was how strong the Asian running presence was - it was enormous.

[08:42] And we know from the Gold Coast Half Marathon that Chinese airlines sponsor it, and we've seen the Taiwanese presence at the Gold Coast Marathon too - so much so that they had a Chinese translator on the finish line. That's the level of Chinese presence they have at the Gold Coast Marathon. Looking around at the unofficial run club shakeout, the Asian community had really turned out in numbers for this event, and I wonder if that's normal each

[09:12] week or whether people were flying in for it. The great thing is, up through the Asian countries, running is life - you go to Japan, running is life, it's school, every day your life revolves around running. Once I got round to the official activation in the Rocks, I started looking around - Lululemon had another activation around the corner, and at one section down at Circular Quay there was, at a rough guess, a team of 150 runners

[09:45] from the Philippines, all in their country kit, all doing their own version of a shakeout stretch. The idea of 150 people from one country all jumping on a plane together as a group for this event - that's another reason it had to be Sydney. That's something we should unpack, dive into Japan specifically but Asian countries in general, just

[10:15] the running culture, the Ekiden relays at school - what the marathon means to them over there. We talk about a running boom here in Australia, but running has been there in those countries for years. If you go to Japan, marathon running is one of the biggest events - they come out to watch it just like you'd go to watch cycling in

[10:46] Europe, they come out to watch the Ekiden relays in Japan. Now, I'm going to allow a breath here in case you decide to edit this out, which should serve as a tease for anyone about to listen - I know we have some influential people who listen to and watch this podcast. Decision-makers. You're not going to drop any names? I'm not going to drop any names, but I am going to throw something out, because talking about running culture and how it changes and differs between communities -

[11:17] this is an idea I had a couple of years back, before In the Beginning: a vlog, a Netflix or Apple TV series, right? I think it's where In the Beginning Hits the Road comes in - a six-part series exploring running culture tied to a major race in each place, doesn't have to be a marathon, across different cultures around the world. So you'd look at the sprint culture here in Jamaica -

[11:50] what's the track called, what's the coaching club called, I can't remember, in Kingston. Anyway, that's one episode - sprint culture in Jamaica and the Caribbean, why it is what it is. We go to Oregon, the track community, the culture of track in Oregon in the United States, why it is what it is. Asian running community, trail running in Europe - all I'm saying is if there's somebody out there who can picture this, slide into the DMs.

[12:20] He's pitching Courtney and me right now. No, it's great - talk me through this idea. I made a trip to Japan, this was pre-COVID, for a race, and I think I've mentioned it on the podcast before - a race up to, I think it was 3,333 metres, yeah, up to a monastery. I shared that video, but what I never shared was that I actually went on the road for another seven days after that, visiting certain places in

[12:54] Japan I thought would either be great running or had some kind of uniqueness to running. I went and visited where the marathon monks are from, up at the temple. Who are the marathon monks? Exactly - a whole other story about the monks up there, and the process they go through. I'd have to check my notes, but it's literally - they run a marathon a day for 1,000 days. I'm not quoting that exactly, but every single day, up in the mountains, and then - stealing Nedd Brockman's idea - when they get to 100 days, they

[13:27] keep going, at least I think that's how it happens - 100 days, and then they start doubling it up. Let me get the proper facts on this and come back to you, but I've got a whole seven days of content there I never released. You'd already filmed it? Already filmed it, ran up there among the marathon-monk trails, up into the glaciers. Talking about running culture in Japan, I actually caught up with Ruy

[13:59] Ueda, who's one of the best trail runners in Japan - I think he'd just got 4th or 5th at CCC at UTMB - and ran up Mount Fuji with him. He took me to his local trails where he grew up running. Courtney, what are you doing, you've already filmed my TV show and there's no name for us to pitch it now! If there's someone out there, a good editor who wants to take a dig at it, I just don't have the time to get through it, but we've got it all there and it's ready to go. So maybe that's one for another day. I mean, we're giving it away for free here, but

[14:32] this is what's next - another branch of the running-boom tree waiting to be created, because aside from - what's that Netflix thing, Sprint, what's that mini-series about sprinting called - I love the Barkley Marathons doco on YouTube, there's a lot of trail running stuff on YouTube, I'm sure there's other stuff too, but from an accessible, digestible, not-pop-culture angle,

[15:05] there's not a lot of great content out there. No, there isn't - you could not spend enough time on YouTube looking. Hey, let's get back to Sydney, I don't know how we got off track. You mentioned times on the Sydney Marathon course, and that if you want to run fast you go to Gold Coast. I did notice - obviously I know how the guys I know run and where they usually are, and a lot of them who normally run around 2:20 were probably more like 2:15 runners on the day.

[15:37] I reckon the course was probably four to five minutes slower - anyone who disagrees, let us know what you think. But looking at the times and the guys I knew were running, you're probably losing four to five minutes off your normal marathon time out there on that course. David Rhodes was aiming for a sub-3, ran a 3:06 - so, well, there you go, and that held true for a lot of other people I know who ran as well, probably four to five minutes off where they'd expected to

[16:08] run. I do want to talk about my Sunday morning too - to put a bow on Saturday, I ended up running around through the Rocks, past the hub, the Opera House, where the 5K run was taking place that morning, then making my way back to where I was staying through Centennial Park. The vibe was unbelievable. Did you spot the goat at all? Not on Saturday - the energy was unbelievable, and it's what sent me off to bed that night, because we'd gone into

[16:38] town, had dinner and all the rest of it, and it was great, but it sent me off to bed that night so excited for marathon day. I wasn't running, so I didn't get huge pangs of jealousy, but I did get a few moments seeing people out there about to finish a major and thinking, it'd be cool to be out there. Yep. Before you get to Sunday - have you checked your emails this morning? I know what you're talking about. Let's stay with my birthday - it's the 30th of August, and going into Liam's birthday, and for full disclosure, Liam knew this as well.

[17:10] I'd set an alarm to make sure I remembered it was Liam's birthday, and then Liam FaceTimed me that morning showing me the fun run, the shakeout - I got off the phone, and about ten minutes later my alarm went off. I'll ring you back - and, oh Liam, that was great. I am bloody hopeless, but what I have done - and I don't know if this is great for the podcast, because you've been our non-premium member for a while - well, I have, but Liam is now on a year's worth of

[17:40] premium. That's my gift to you, Liam. Thank you, Courtney, this is very generous. Oh, Liam - I gifted it to myself, according to the email. But no, I've got a 12-month subscription to Strava Premium. I'm going to get stuck in, I'm going to use and abuse this for the next 12 months and see what value premium really gives you. Well, you don't realise it until you take it out of your expenses. Oh, it's an expense - that's why it's from you. Thank you, that's very generous. And yeah, the vibe I had out of Saturday, my

[18:12] birthday, going into the next morning - we woke up and packed up because we were flying out that morning at about 10:30-ish. We headed straight from where we were - unintentionally we'd ended up near Centennial Park. For those who don't know the course, you come across the bridge and down, in and around the Rocks a little, headed out towards Maroubra before coming back. Pretty much multiple vantage points to watch the race.

[18:43] It was a really strong spectating course outside the city, with these different corners and turns where you could see the runners or the lead pack. We positioned ourselves at the entrance to Centennial Park, which I hadn't really thought about, but it was the 30K mark - and if you've listened to our marathon coverage of the Gold Coast Marathon Series, that's where the race really starts. So in hindsight, a really interesting spot to position ourselves, because when the lead men's pack came into the park, Eliud Kipchoge was in it.

[19:14] By the time they'd finished the Centennial Park loop, Eliud Kipchoge had been dropped. It was fascinating for me to see - wow, this is where the race started, and that's where the GOAT dropped off. Question, because there were other people around you, it was packed - when they ran in, everyone's cheering, yeah - when they ran out, was there still cheering for him being dropped by the front runners? The crowd cheered louder and harder for him.

[19:45] When Eliud Kipchoge ran past - he was only maybe 50 to 70 metres behind the front pack by that point - there was a noticeable lift. And here's the thing, I don't want to say I got emotional about it, but the feeling in me was as high as it had been all morning. Eliud Kipchoge running out of Centennial Park, huge roar, smiling from ear to ear, 34K deep into a marathon, thumbs up with both arms outstretched,

[20:20] thumbs up to the crowd - it was amazing, I've got the video, we'll get it up. Him with two thumbs up as he's running, huge smile - I looked around and thought, this is what's great about this sport. I also came up with a theory at that point - and Sifan Hassan, same thing, though a bit different. I saw her finish on TV, she's amazing, the women's winner, the Dutch runner, African-born - that was more of a race, because

[20:54] I can't remember the name of the woman who came runner-up, but by the time they exited the park there were only two women in the lead pack. She's not at Eliud Kipchoge's level, but it was much more of a race. The way she finished - the energy, the effort, the enthusiasm - she's just someone to get around. She was cooked at the end. She ran the fastest ever marathon on Australian soil by a female, and the runner-up ran the second-fastest time as well - the first time all-female places had ever gone under 2:20 on Australian soil.

[21:25] So the vibes were great, but I've been thinking about it - why is running different to footy? I'm at footy every weekend, and I've figured out the difference. Even if you set yourself to try and beat a mate in a race, no one's ever cheering against another runner. If you go to a footy game on the weekend - you mean like booing them? Well, it's not even booing, but if you go to a game of footy on the weekend in any

[21:58] team sport where it's head-to-head like that, not only do you want your team to win, you want the opposition to lose. That doesn't exist in running - no one out there watching Kipchoge, wanting Kipchoge or any of the other runners to win the race, would have been cheering against a runner. I don't think their brain goes

[22:28] 'I hope he doesn't win.' Everyone's brain is focused on wanting their own athlete to do well, and similarly, when their mate runs past chasing a PB, nowhere does the thought enter their head of wanting them to fail. I reckon that's true from a participation base - if you went to the World Championships track meet in Tokyo in a few weeks, that scenario might not be quite the same. Maybe from the crowd, yeah, that's what I'm thinking, from within

[23:00] the elite field, competitors might feel a bit different. But for most team sports as a spectator, I think that's why the energy around a marathon is so positive and so different to most other sporting events - everybody wants the best for everybody. You're really only racing yourself and the clock. I made a note at the 2 hours 11 minute mark in the race, when the clock had just ticked

[23:30] over 2:11 - you'd seen the winners come across the line, the Opera House steps looked packed, it looked amazing, and I thought, wow, they've killed it. Then they showed a drone shot five minutes later of the Opera House - not as packed as I'd thought. Really? What I want to say is, running is still a participation sport - yes, you were out there in the crowd, people were watching, family

[24:00] were watching, but there were 30,000 people out there running. So yes, people are there to watch, but people are there to run, and that's what got me thinking right at that moment - I looked and thought, oh, they've done it, it's jam-packed - but then it was the camera angle, and once it pulled out a bit, I started thinking, well, is that just because the winners had finished and everyone watching was still up in the city watching their own friends, family and everyone else racing?

[24:31] I don't know, maybe that's the case, that it's spread out. But I imagined a World Major finish line at the Opera House with the first runners coming across, and thought it'd be fighting for room - it wasn't quite the case. There was a crowd, but not as built-out as I'd expected, which is why I still say - we talk about running a lot, but it's still first and foremost a participation sport, which is an absolutely great thing. Can I just do one before I forget, because I bumped into - not met him before, I had met him before, but I bumped into him -

[25:02] in the park, a young fellow by the name of Jack. Jack Eagle - shout out to Jack, I hope this is getting you to sleep. His dad, Brian, or Ryan, but we'll call him Brian - Brian has run UTA 50 and 100 a couple of times, and Jack just loves listening to In the Beginning podcast, that's what we do to families.

[25:32] So I just want to say to Jack, if you're listening to this one, big shout-out, it was good to see you, good night. Also, can I give a shout-out to our man Rady, who set a Guinness World Record at the Sydney Marathon for the fastest marathon ever run dressed as a surfer, carrying a board with him the whole way. He ran a 3:17 with a surfboard, in thongs - beating the previous record by almost an hour and a half. Was he wearing those special sandals? No, no, like the Archie thongs, I think - no carbon plate. No, no, no, the highland ones we've talked about. You also ran into Kendall

[26:04] Boyd? I did run into Kendall - let me get some more shout-outs of people I bumped into. Kendall I bumped into at the expo on the Friday, great to see him, met his young fella. Kendall was telling me all about his trail running through Thailand, how he got into the podcast. He was great. How did he get into the podcast, did I just put you on the spot? Don't worry, because he's throwing you under the bus later on, which I'm going to love - we'll get to that.

[26:34] Before that, one more shout-out - I didn't get his name, but as I was exiting Centennial Park heading for the airport to get an Uber, there was one fella. I don't know your name, I hope you're listening - you were the bloke who shouted out 'Liam, In the Beginning!' and I recognised it. Well, one of my mates was out there running and gave us a shoutout - Brett Hennings, In the Beginning podcast,

[27:04] shout-out to you boys. Just about to hit 30Ks, been listening on the bus all morning, had that mindset for the last couple of months thanks to your podcast - so it doesn't matter how many of these things you do, there's always something you can learn. Thanks boys, keep it up, and I'll see how this finishes. OK - I was going to try to work out, I would have been standing right where Brett recorded, right at the 30K. He ended up finishing in 3:08. The story behind him is he's

[27:35] done a lot of my photography work for Red Bull - not an endurance athlete, but getting into midlife, he's found Ironman, he's found running. All I'd see on his feed was photos he'd take of, say, Toby Price out shooting, and I hadn't done our running back in the day, so all the images were mostly Red Bull stuff. And now here he is - all he posts is marathon, running, triathlon, everything. I said, mate, always happy for you to grab the camera, but you can do the running for us too. 3:08 fifties -

[28:07] for someone newish to it, that's a great run. Straight away I said, you've got to be thinking about 3 hours now. The other one that came through was sent in by Tamara - 3rd place in the men's, wait, 4th place in the men's race, first Chinese runner across the line, and the 4th one all wore a Chinese carbon-plate shoe. They're back - from Xtep. Xtep. So not the ones we've known before, but they must be pumping

[28:37] some money in. But just like cars, four-wheel-drives and utes coming into Australia, they're going to take over soon - just watch, they're coming, mark my words. As we always say about shoes, find what works for you, don't follow along blindly. Interesting, there's one mix brand we talked about really early on that you tried, and my brother still runs in them, still loves them - I've taken them off Temu.

[29:07] What, you can't buy them anymore? Yeah, this was just this morning, we were talking about it - you can't buy them anymore. So I said, well, if you're looking for a Chinese shoe, probably go down to - it's not Chinese, but the Kiprun from Decathlon, I reckon, give it a shot at a premium price. But anyway, quickly before we move on, do you have any other thoughts on Sydney, because I do have a bit of a summation I want to make. Go for it. How will it go next year? I'll start off with the

[29:38] biggest thing - we said it was saturated, the brands went all in, went heavy. The biggest one, the one I think cost the most money, was from On. I have no idea, but I'm going to take a stab - it could have been a 600 to 800 thousand-dollar exercise for

[30:09] them. Do you know the value of a pair of feet? I don't know, but I think it worked, because my perception of On changed. Really? Did you not see that? I saw a bit of On stuff around the place, and I'm starting to think - and look, Clint was a part of it, he runs in On and talks about it - I never took them seriously as a running shoe, but it's certainly something I'd never considered running in before. Whereas now I'd be open to it, I'd give them

[30:40] a marketing win - the money spent on being there has converted at least one pair of feet, people running, yeah, you'd give them a shot. And I think that's what I mean - I don't think we'll ever see the marketing spend dip around the TCS Sydney Marathon now that it's a major, whether it's On again next year or another brand that sees the opportunity or the value in converting runners - someone's going to spend the money. What I'm thinking more about is that it's the first time it's a major,

[31:10] so there would have been a lot of people who'd run the other six wanting to complete the set - I don't think you're as likely to get the repeat business from those runners next year. Further to that, Eliud Kipchoge probably won't be there next year - it was a perfect storm. So how does Sydney - and this is the responsibility the organisers now have to deal with, short of getting me to host the finish line with my mate Pete Murray -

[31:41] how do they maintain or elevate that race next year? Do you know who was doing the finish line? Pete Murray? No - Pete was there, I saw him pull out, saw him on the TV grab a sneaky selfie with Eliud. Probably not kosher, but I saw that. Yeah, Pete. Who else was doing it? Dave Culbert. But Dave's always there for the broadcast, he was there on the line for us on the Gold Coast too. So, what you were saying

[32:11] around that - I think it was a perfect storm. The investment from the brands was larger than I'd expected. But with that perfect storm of it being the first time, Kipchoge, everyone coming out, Hassan running - we don't know if it's peaked yet. I don't think it is. We don't know where it goes from here, but at some point you can't just have exponential growth forever, so at some point that's going to

[32:42] come back and flatten out a bit. At that point you think, well, what happened? But look, it's a major now, it's going to continue. I'd be fascinated to see the demographic breakdown of who competed, because looking at how Sifan Hassan engaged the running community in Sydney, you wonder whether female runners remain the bigger opportunity for the running community around Sydney. Because I think we know run

[33:13] clubs are, you know, a bit of a dating scene and all the rest of it. But looking at what Sifan Hassan did from a personality perspective - that's my big takeaway. How many people interacted with her, saw her at things, watched her, and just can't stop raving about it? So from a marketability perspective, if you can't get Eliud Kipchoge back next year - or even if you do, has the shine worn off from having him out here already this year? Perfect storm, we're talking about. Is there a lever to pull around Sifan Hassan or other high-profile female athletes,

[33:44] making them the centrepiece of your major event? Where do you go? I don't know, even in the next five to ten years, where do you go? It's a bit like Usain Bolt, right - once they're there, they're the GOAT. So until that generation of people involved in running right now moves on, where do you go with what

[34:14] athlete could come in and create that same impact? That's my question. The question I've got beyond that is, if you had the choice between the GOAT - if you had the chance to bring Jelly Roll in - I'd still bring back the GOAT, I'd try to do both, but I'd still bring back the GOAT, I think he generates more excitement. Is that because the marathon is the runner's race, and the people there are runners who want to be there? I

[34:46] think, especially with a major - I think even in a marathon, Eliud Kipchoge is a bigger celebrity than Jelly Roll could ever be. That's a big call. That's my take, that's my take. I'd - that would actually be a great poll, I might put that up. OK, quickly, I want to stay on the female thing for a moment - do you know who the first Aussie male across the line was?

[35:16] I do, but I don't know his name off the top of my head. Robinson came in second, didn't he? Yes. My only point being, I know Leanne Pompeani was the first female across, but I also saw the storyline about Jess Stenson and Sinead Diver, and

[35:47] I think we can leave it there, time to move on. One, it's a segue - let's take it as a segue, because you mentioned how big ASICS went, we talked a lot about it being the ASICS marathon. Will Nike actually own the event? Then we just talked about the biggest investment we probably felt like we saw, or that's from a socials-led point of view,

[36:17] I thought it was On. You know who else? Oh sorry, keep going. Beyond that, I mean it's everywhere because of the two athletes. It just got me thinking again, coming back to what we saw about Nike and their pivot, coming back to support athletes first, after realising that going down the route of chasing trend, they'd lost themselves.

[36:48] They've admitted it - we got lost, we were trying to build bigger, and now we've come back to athletes. I read this, which I think really hits it on the head, and I want to know what you think - why does this matter for Nike and branding? When Nike sold lifestyle, it sold trend. When Nike sold sport, it sold identity. Trends fade. Identity lasts. Brands that drift too far from their core risk becoming ordinary.

[37:22] I like it, it's very nice. That was Design Rush Mag who put it out, but it's actually come from Nike - the source is Nike, they've said that themselves: when Nike sold lifestyle, it sold trend, when Nike sold sport, it sold identity, trends fade, identity lasts. I like it. The other thing I'd say about Nike is they're the behemoth, they're Everest, they're the monster, they're the biggest thing in the room - but they've just admitted they've gone off track, so there's actually no need for them to ever look over their shoulder. Because if you're the

[37:52] biggest - and this is a naive or simplistic way of looking at it - but if you're out in front, you can set the trends. Now it's hard for you to turn. It's like I always talk about this - I work for a radio station now, and a radio station can't pivot like a podcast can, it's like turning the Titanic versus turning a jet ski. You're not that manoeuvrable - that's a disadvantage of working for a big company as opposed to being independent. You don't have the manoeuvrability, but sometimes

[38:22] the moment you do start to make a turn, it can affect you for a very long time. So yeah, I like that, it sums up Nike. I didn't really notice Nike that much across the marathon - I'd say the other brand I noticed quite a bit was New Balance, I thought they did a pretty nice job. Where did they show up? I went to the unofficial run club - they'd partnered with it, and that's about buying audience, essentially, they found a run club with a big audience and bought into it. They bought the audience, and as a result I saw a lot of New Balance, because it was something I got involved in, so

[38:52] I saw a lot of it. Hey, you said you got a goodie bag - yes. Do you want to know what was in it? Yeah, I do. So this was from that run, New Balance supplied it - within that you got some Blistex lip balm, some Epsom salts, magnesium salts for your bath, some protein gummies from Nature's Farm, some powdered hot chocolate. That was about it, right, in a

[39:25] New Balance bag. Now, having said that, the New Balance satchel bag - you know, it's what you get slung over everyone's shoulder at a lot of athletic events, branding seemed like it was everywhere. But the activation down there, with the food and the drinks - it felt, I did think it felt a little bit like putting the cart before the horse, like, oh, I feel like I've already run the marathon and this is the post-event or post-race event. But no, again, well done to all the brands that activated.

[39:57] I thought everything I saw reflected the mood of the city and built on the mood of the city and the excitement about this race happening on the Sunday. So yep, it's fantastic. Hey, sticking with the shoe train for a moment - Adidas had that thing to break the world record, the 100K challenge. They broke the world record, let's just say that. The shoe that came out, the Evo Prime X - yes man, it's wild, and I love the fact they're using

[40:27] an athlete as their main protagonist through it all, and I think I saw him doing something else there too. Now they've just dropped, off the back of UTMB, a new Agravic - I've never been able to say that name, the trail shoe - what I love is it came out like when they've got a new car and don't want to show the prototype, and it's got all the - yeah, literally, like camouflage black triangles all over it. That was the shoe. That's actually, it was like -

[40:58] that's clever. It was really clever, so good on you for that one. But yeah, I just wanted to touch on that because I know we. They broke the they broke the 100 hundred record chasing 100. I still look, yeah, I have. It hasn't come up in my algorithm. No, so they haven't really made. I was way more impressed with the triangles on the shoe. The shoe. Yeah, yeah. And talking about and then talking about Kendall Boyd Yes, my mate from the Expo. Look, we know you've got this target of trying to break 40, yes, for your 10K, which is a great target.

[41:31] I think I know when I might try and do it too. What? Was that? T100. On the Gold Coast, there's. A 10K race as part of the T100 when it comes here in March, because I feel like I can't. You got to do it in a race. Flat, flat course, Flat course, Flat course. I can't just go out and do it on the front, I need to do it in a race anyway. Keep. Away a little bit of encouragement from Kendall. OK we had what date was this? 24th of August Australian race walking Junior championships were on Liam.

[42:01] I don't like this already. OK, in the men's Isaac B Croft, he's walked a 3855. No, he hasn't. He's run that. He's run that. Yeah, can't run it. You can't walk a 3850 the. Junior Australian champion Liam has done this walking. I think you need to move your target. Oh, what to what to what? I have had so many people tell

[42:31] me. Give you advice. Try and tell me how to break 40 minutes. Where would you like a little bit more of that Yeah take. So Darren Wallace I see runs out in Narang a little bit. He shared his 10K advice feeling so he recently got his 10 KPB at the GC30 with a 3951 well done dad. Then he ran the GC Marathon and got the same exactly the same time as Mara. So his strategy he said was specific park runs with a midweek threshold, a long run and a bit of MTV. I can sort that out with my mate. If you ever want to join in Liam

[43:02] and a gym session, Parkrun was a warm up look. Over time it look well like what we said, it's progression over time. He increased the 350 pace, eventually hitting the sub-20:30 for his park runs, using people around just to keep, you know, slowly getting better. Midweek he'd do a 15 minute warm up 3 x 2K. So that's a solid, very solid session and no longer than 90 minutes on his easy run. OK.

[43:33] He did the Washpool. Remember that run? We're talking about the Washpool Ultra which was down in Coffs Harbour as my local race a few weeks back. So he's obviously putting in the work now, 50 years old, 89 kilos, always wears his shirts on, shirt on just to mention. And then the final, just to give you a little bit more motivation, he forgot to mention he did 1 Hyrox last year and. He did a Hyrox. Yeah, because he's a high hybrid rock star. Yeah, hybrid rock star. That's almost That's at

[44:03] 1,000,000 views by the way, that reel of us, which is insane. Well, there's something in it, right? And we weren't talking about running exactly right, something else. But anyway, he's, yeah, lost your encouragement of how to do it. But there's been plenty of people trying to help you out, Liam. Well, I'll jump into it right then because I am still running. Well, I'm feeling and I had another crack at Deke's quarters. Yep, for those improvements. Improvements. Oh good. Yep, improvements. My execution score in fact, from my Garmin was 81%.

[44:34] It basically like it's so I've, I've got this as a workout set on my Garmin with the my speed ranges. And so the execution score at the end of your run determines how well you executed the workout. I failed on I think on the 8th. I'm just bringing it up in front of me while we talk about it. So my I was averaging 120 nines one 30s on my 4 hundreds. I was keeping it sub 55 on my recoveries the two hundreds and then but on the 8th Rep I popped

[45:08] I was cooked. So I didn't actually complete the 8th rep but next time I will. Complete the app, you'll complete it. So you, well, you, this is the thing, right? You're starting to get, you're starting to understand where the limit is on the time, and you'll be able to adjust. Totally AM, and I'm also starting to understand the feeling I get during these sessions. So for context for people, first time I did these Deke's quarters. Now again to just backtrack and catch people up a little bit so they don't have to go back to when we first started talking about this. I had been doing the 400 metre reps with 100 metre walks in between.

[45:39] You said fine, but here's a better set. You introduced me to the concept of the float, like the 4th Rep by the 4th Rep with the 400 into a 200 float, I was tired like I was proper tied this and by at the end of my 6th Rep I my legs were like felt lactic. I'm like this is this is tiring like I've hit at next level. So I still managed to get through the recovery on the 6th Rep or the float on the 6th Rep and through the 7th Rep

[46:10] maintaining speed, but by it was literally almost like my 7th Rep at that pace I was aiming for and then the float I was done. I was like, I know this is my last Rep. I'll try to start the 8th Rep, but really I don't have anything left to give. So and then it was interesting though, 'cause I still have a 10 minute cooldown programmed into the workout, cooling down at that might like 520 pace sort of thing. Feels like I'm stumbling, feels like I'm like, I feel like I'm almost running 630 pace. But it's amazing how quickly I got my breath back and adapted

[46:44] at 520 times move on and just and just then rolled out through the 10 minutes. Think of think of the conversation you're going to have at the Gold Coast Marathon start line next year with Deke instead of going. I might, my calves are gone. I've been doing your session all year. Would you believe that I did Deke's toothbrush technique this morning as I was brushing my teeth at 3:30 this morning before I went into the radio show, I'm there and my calves going, Deke says. You've got to be able to hold it on my leg in the morning and hold it on the other leg in the. Evening. Hey, I'm packing that watch thing you're talking about

[47:16] because I've never in my life programme my watch to a session. Really. So listeners will be have AI reckon a voice on this as well? I've never thought to programme my watch into the thing, but I was running, we were running fartlek at the Spit on Tuesday. And Chloe, shout out. Chloe, I think she got, I was told she got ninth in the women's cross country Australian championships just recently too. So the first bit of the session I was running along next to her and it her and she said, oh

[47:47] don't worry, my watch is gonna keep beeping. Yeah. So she was set on a set time. The problem was I was on a cycle about 7 seconds earlier because of the pause on my watch. So it threw me a bit and I said no let's run for with you. But it got me thinking. I said, how quickly can you pump one of these sessions in, Reedy? It's so easy, man. It's so easy. Even when there was so we were doing the other the other run we mentioned mona fartlek. Yeah, so there's a. Fair bit to that. Two 90s to four 60s, Four 30s like. So, well, it's sorry if. Someone hasn't done like I have

[48:19] never done this so explain to me. Do you want to know? OK, quick background on it. Do you know why I know how to do this is because Reedy used to be a Garmin ambassador and so and Reedy's obviously a friend, but I also follow him on his socials and he used to, I think two years ago, three years ago, Reedy started up a run club on Instagram and was taking people through sessions and every session he would programme on his Garmin and he would show you how to do it. So it's literally paid by numbers instruction type stuff, which is why I know how to do it

[48:50] now. It's very like it's literally, and I'll bring it up here. You go into if you're using Garmin, that's what I use. So you do it off your. Off the phone, you build it on your phone as a workout and then you update your phone and it goes OK so and then it updates. So straight away I thought you were there with your watch like trying to. You might be able to do it like that. I don't think you can. I think you need to build it in the Garmin app before you upload it. But that's so quick and easy. And the thing for me, I've been guilty of interestingly, and

[49:23] again, all running is good running. I was guilty for a few years probably prior to moving up here on the Gold Coast of just rinse and repeating 10 KS and Clint Kimmons last week talked about Junk Miles right and didn't say they were bad. Junk makes it sound like they're bad, but it's not. It's just. But if you're training for something, it might be inefficient. I was guilty for a long time of just running. I was running pretty standard 10K like in with no particular goal or ambition.

[49:53] And and you know, in hindsight, the running I was doing was never going to help me improve as a runner. It was just running, but I loved running. So I was just doing running now for me. And Andy talked about he never runs. He runs to effort, right? He doesn't bad. But if you're a certain level of runner, imagine you can run to effort. You know, Michael Shelley talked the same thing about running to effort, not running to time. I'm not like that. I need a reminder. I've got a rough idea of how I feel, but I need, you want to

[50:23] keep a check. I need to keep a check on it. And so by having these programmes, these sessions, when I'm doing them, it helps me run better, train better. And that's probably a good way to use technology as a goal, like until you, I think over time the goal would be to understand, using the technology to understand, to get that feel. And then hopefully eventually you don't need the watch because you know, you intuitively know the feel. Well, that is the goal. That's so and I agree that is

[50:53] the goal. By comparison, for example, the other run I've done this week, I did the Dave Flay wildlife loop around the boardwalk through Burleigh, around the front. I actually ran it because one of the listeners in chat at Pete, who's a listener of the podcast, tagged me after one of my runs on Strava and said, hey, we're coming up to the Gold Coast. He and his wife sometime soon, school holidays, I think. Would you be able to run the Burleigh loop? What to show me so we can see where it is? So I went out and ran it the other day and I tagged him in. I said. You're a good man.

[51:23] There you go. Go for, run and it's. It is one of the great loops. Now you're on, you know, you know, now you're on premium. You can actually just draw the loop. I've got to stay with my I've got to stay with my people. But to that right, my Garmin at that point tells me and it gives me daily suggestions based on all the stuff. But it told me run slow for 40 minutes, no faster than 5 fifteens or whatever. But I just ran that to effort. I just put my I was in my non carbon plate, carbon rod shoes. I was in my gel Kayanos and I just ran that to effort. Now that's got some hills in it.

[51:54] It's got some downhills in it. It's got a bit of trails, got some boardwalk. So there's all variety of things. But I just ran that to effort. Now interestingly as I came round the back Flat Rd section of that I actually started to feel and came around the back of the Tallebudgera Creek. I got quite tight in my calves. So I really like almost to the point where pulled off running on my toes and it was a bit of heel striking. So and again running to effort pulled back consequently took yesterday off. I went to Riggs Recovery. I did the hot and cold. I'm into the I'm I'm, I'm more

[52:26] like non recovery now, Courtney. He's been spending too much time over there at the Suns, watching, listening to the boys about their recovery. So yeah, so thank you, everybody offering me 10K advice, feel free to keep sending it through. I'm filtering in the stuff I like. I'm filtering out the stuff I don't. One more on the 10K. So this Angus Crisp sent this in. There's a guy Edvin Anger. Yeah, somewhere over in the Scandinavian countries, I believe. 100K guy turns on 10K in 3137.

[52:56] It's pretty impressive A. 100. Kilos, no 100K guy you can look at you click on the link there and you can see him 100K guy has run 10K in 3137 in a fun run like it's not when I say a fun run in a run like not around a track either, that is that's Clydesdale impressive. Flag on the play. For everybody out there listening to this, what's he's 6'4? I think that needs to be stressed, right? Because in my head when I hear 100 kilos, I'm thinking someone my size of 100, right?

[53:28] I'm 5'8. This bloke is 6'4. So Yep, it's I'm not taking anything away from it, but he I don't know if I'm actually happy with him classifying as a Clydesdale 'cause he is just 6'4 of. He's just got a big. Frame. He's just got a big frame, you know, like that's he just looks like a big framed athlete. That's not AI. Don't in fact, no Edvin get stuffed. I'm not happy about it. Edvin Anger you. I don't care. You don't you're not really 100K athlete. You're just a big unit.

[53:58] Yeah, not happy about it. Hey, quickly, where are you at? Have we, I can't remember. We've hit a point now where I can't remember the things we've talked about on podcast and off podcast. Have we talked about we've? Probably seen each other a bit more than usual in the past two weeks. Have look, I said earlier on I had a little scare. Here we go. Let's talk about it. Let's. Start there because like we in the down there in Sydney in the live podcast when Andy broke the news, he's had a femoral stress fracture very similar to what. He said he didn't have a stress fracture yet. Sorry, stress reaction. Yes, yeah, sorry.

[54:29] That's what comes before the fracture. Very low grade stress reaction and mine was only a reaction too. There was no fracture. But I've been going through that for a long time. I'd been back. Let's in context, I've kind of slowly got back from that injury to the point where then I'd been able to put together 4 weeks at, you know, probably an average of about 85 K each week. So I started at 70. I think I hit 90 on the 4th week. I then went to run the following week, which would have been last

[55:02] week, sorry, two weeks ago and I had that exact same feeling, Andy explained of. I just feel like my abductor just there's a little strain or something not right? It's the same thing I felt when I initially had this problem. And because I'd never experienced before, I never knew what the feeling was. Now I'm so acutely aware. I was like, Oh no, I look back at, you know, and I thought, shit, if I overloaded this too

[55:33] quick, what's going on? So what I did, I took three days off, OK, just stopped and was happy to stop. And this is just before we went down to Sydney and then Andy told us this news. So at that point I hadn't run in three days. I was going to give it the Friday off as well, and then I came back on the Saturday and I just went out here on the road around the home and then 6K, very easy just to see what it was. Now that what didn't feel great, that 6K either, it was because a bit gummy. I'd run for four days and whatever, but it seemed to have been OK and loosen out.

[56:05] So then on the Sunday I went, OK, let's go out to the Bush, out to the forest trails and see. Let's just go by field and see how it goes. I'll run with a few people, so my mind will be off it because maybe I'm just overthinking this. Have you do you? You're a cricketer, A bit of a cricketer, yes. I'm going to drop a name here. Or international cricketer just quickly you representative Vanuatu. Well, so you may have played him before, do you know? Yeah, Johan Botha absolutely South African, was also the captain coach of the

[56:37] Adelaide Strikers. So he's BL. He's now Big Bash coach of Brisbane. Yep, he so he came out for a run with us in the trails. He's a weapon. He ultra dude, Yeah, but yeah. What was your spinner? He's. Yeah, he's been. Because you know you're cricketer. Yeah, I know you know, Botha. Did you play him when you when you represented? When I represented Vanuatu I was living over in the country and a touring Victorian club side came for a tour. I played one. Day you didn't play. I did not play. South Africa at any stage. No, at no point did I, my cricketing talents take me

[57:08] anywhere beyond my school 11. So yeah, we went, I was out in the Bush, I had around with even my brother. And so it was good because we're, you know, you're just talking and you get your mind off it. I got through it. Everything seemed fine. I then took Monday off again off the back of that because I thought, shit, I got through a long run, let's just take another day off. And then Tuesday morning fartlek came along and I had the best feeling running I've had in a year all. Right. Doesn't like touch wood, doesn't seem to, you know, nothing's the

[57:41] hip, thing's gone. It must have just been a hopefully a false alarm, a little fandom who knows what. Maybe I just overdid it, I'm not sure. But Tuesday, best feeling I've had in a year. Ran on in the session, Felt great. Did you have the flow? Had the flow the. Flow. Did you have the flow at the flow? Did you find Flow? Down freedom. Freedom. Is that even more wanky than flight? It is, but I like it. I understand what you said.

[58:11] Coming out with the big words, yes, I knocked along for 20 minute monitor, I think averaging about 3:30. Through the. So yeah. We're back, so you're back. I might still say back, but. This is great, though there was a scare. But it's good to for everyone to hear the process because like, I'm a lot more aware of it now. Yeah. And the first thing I did was, OK, let's just de stress on this. I've got through a good four weeks. Yeah, take some time, come back, reassess and Yep, look, to be really honest, if I took a

[58:41] like a umbrella or like a helicopter view of that now, I would just say probably like 4 weeks. I just needed a rest. Yeah, just body one of them. And I and I took the rest and I've come back so I forget about injury or anything else. It's just purely a training. So like now I'm gonna probably be more aware of that. I might do three weeks again and I might just take a week a bit easier. Yeah. Yeah. Look, I think it's great for the podcast because there was a little hint there that we were becoming the injury prone podcast. Oh don't worry mate, I was shitting myself. I like I and not because of the podcast.

[59:12] Not because of the podcast, one, because of my mental health. I was like, I cannot, I can't do another long step on the sidelines. I love running's awesome. I love running. Yeah, especially like getting out in the Bush and that just by myself running. So that was the first thing. The second thing was I've got a few things coming up running that we'll get into later in the year. Yeah. I just can't get injured again. I need to be. Here to stay fit. That's where we are. You know you, that whole idea of taking a rest or having a break, I think last it must have been last week.

[59:42] Interestingly, just a quick one going back a week, my load's been building really nicely. I've been, I sort of, I went through a three week build of getting up, get up to a sort of went from 45 KS to I think I got up to just shy 60 KS and feeling great and getting the runs in and making it work. And then I had a week where I didn't, I had football. I had two late night games of football. Into the radio show the next morning, which meant I was working on about 3 hours sleep both those nights.

[01:00:12] Then we had some radio stuff going on in the afternoons, which meant basically I for about a 4-5 day stretch I was working on an average of four hours sleep. A not yeah. Not good. Not. Enough, right? And I've watched enough influencers tell me how important sleep is. It's, it is, it's important because I went to try and go. I went for a run. This is before we flew out to Sydney. I just got through 5K like I said and it wasn't because it was. Nothing was injured. You just. I just, I was just, my body was like, Nah. And I'd been running well and,

[01:00:43] you know, I was running, you know, but I just couldn't. I could only finish five KS and I ended up walking home and it was just my body saying you're not sleeping enough. That's when I got heaps of sleeping in and around the podcast when we were in Sydney and I woke up on that Saturday morning of my birthday and did 21 KS like it was nothing because I got some, got some recovery. But yeah, the I am now the injury stuff is I'm so hyper

[01:01:13] aware of I the other day when I went to go for a run, I said to Alana, I was at home and I was putting my shoes on. I was kind of went, I don't know if I really want to go for this run. And she turned and she said, but you do a running podcast, so you have to. I was like, yeah, it's kind of true. It's meant to be like, kind of true. That's good motivation. Yeah, it was. It's good motivation. Now what are we at? Local race. Local race. This will be when we're coming out on Saturday. So this is more just a shout out. Dave Want shared this with me down at so I run quite often

[01:01:45] down from around the Currumbin area and my beach runs easy run. So down at locally at Currumbin on this Saturday, which I believe is what's this Saturday? 6th Yep. 7th. They're doing a 10 by 10 challenge, you know, so we'll put it in the show now. No, that's on next. That's on the 13th. Have I some thought You've got you're awake, but this is good. You're giving people a heads up. Well. If you want to go and join. It yeah, you can see how much. No, no, it's good. The 10 by 10 challenge. 10 by 10 challenge. So what starts at 5:00 AM? Yep.

[01:02:15] And they're doing it for some, for some cause, some for the challenge itself. I don't know if there's a charitable element, no, just think it's event. They're just doing it for themselves. Good on them. That's what it should be and they're going to do so 10 kilometres every hour on the hour. The 10 hours is a goal, so they go. You can do it in teams, but there is also the solo element, so we'll put the link if you're interested in that. We'll put the link in the show notes. 10 Could you do that?

[01:02:45] I don't want to. I actually thought like in all honesty, like it's AI love everyone's and you know, we love to hear about everyone's events. We do with that often comes. Do you want to come and do it? Nope, we got that on the weekend. I've got to be better at just saying no. We got that on the weekend from the feller after the pod at Bondi, Icebergs dining room said You guys want to run a Bondi to Berry 420K ride. That's it. Oh, the ride. Yeah, that's right. I was having this discussion

[01:03:17] about riding the other day because I'm heading overseas and my mates who I'm heading over with, they're taking bikes with them because triathletes want to ride on the road and I'm like, I haven't ridden on the road so why would I want to go on holidays to ride on the road? I don't even do that here at home. I worked out I haven't ridden my road bike since pre COVID. Wow. So Noosa try, just be aware if you ever ask me to ride my road bike, I could be a danger to everyone involved.

[01:03:47] So like obviously ride every week on my mountain bike. But yeah, as far as Rd riding goes. I know you don't like it when I tease things that aren't organised and I am guilty of teasing things that we haven't actually organised and then they never come to fruition and that's on me. This tease is going to happen because we've already started. If you love your running, you'll want to hear this. If you love your writing, you'll want to hear this. And if you love your swimming,

[01:04:19] you'll want to hear this. It starts next week. Are you not going to tell me more now? Something, well, I'll tell you what, here's what we'll do. Make sure you're subscribed. If you're one of the people who listens and isn't subscribed, subscribe because the trailer, let's call it a trailer or a sizzle reel. What's coming next? Our Rd. Our Road to Gold Coast Marathon was so successful and so well received that we're on the road to somewhere different this time. So Wednesday Wraps are coming

[01:04:49] back. Wednesday Wraps are returning. We'll tell you more.