EP 64 - THE MARATHON INTEGRITY UNIT - CHEATERS BEWARE!

[00:00] In the beginning, episode 63, a day where we will be celebrating Courtney. A bit later on in the episode, the fact that the Gold Coast Marathon sold out in 24 hours. Yeah, we said it would, and we did it. If you signed up for the marathon and haven't listened to the midweek episode with Benita Willis, go back and check it out — unbelievable, worth listening to. So if you haven't listened, it's like, what do I do now that I've entered? And Benita gives us all the answers. Benita was back, and there are some people who are really excited to hear that.

[00:31] We didn't tell anyone, so it was a little bit of a surprise. Benita Willis — Lace Up Running is her coaching business — she's back, she's on board, and we're going to be doing some work with her next year towards the race. My wife listened to that episode, by the way, because she got a spot in the marathon, which is so exciting, and she started spouting off all this stuff. She's now the resident expert, and I'm just staring at her saying, you obviously weren't listening to

[01:02] me — what I'd been telling her this whole time — and she said, yeah, but when you tell me something and then Benita Willis tells me the same thing, I'm going to listen. I put my hands up, that was fun. Hey, let's start with some fun off the top. This one was originally shared by Aaron, who's a mate, but plenty of people have shared this one with us — it's a social account that's just been launched and it's flying, called the Marathon Integrity Unit. This is so good. The official/unofficial handle is

[01:34] the handle — do you want to read the mission statement for me? So the handle, if you're looking for it, is official unofficial time. The mission statement: 'Our mission at the Official Marathon Time Integrity Unit is to restore truth, accuracy and transparency to distance running. We exist to protect the integrity of the sport by ensuring that the times athletes share publicly reflect the times they actually ran.'

[02:04] Their purpose is to uphold the standard that chip time is the only time — to challenge the growing trend of GPS-based fabrication, selective Strava displays and false PR claims, to educate the community on accuracy, honesty and respect for the sport, to protect new and emerging runners from being misled by influencers or athletes presenting fraudulent performances, and to celebrate genuine achievement, because the truth is always more admirable than the lie. I love it — we've had

[02:36] plenty of these questions: I take my chip time, do I not? Well, here's a site purposely built to police that. They've made a commitment — now, it's easy to set up a site like this, it's easy to come out and declare these values — but they go on to make their commitment, and it says they will continue to review, investigate and report discrepancies without bias, personal targeting or exceptions. 'We do not shame, we simply reveal the truth. We do not speculate, we analyse evidence.'

[03:07] 'We do not protect egos, we protect the sport.' I love this — this could honestly be my favourite Instagram account of 2025, and it's come late in the piece, we've only got a month or so left in the year. I can see Andy Buchanan's in there, Jen Davies from Red Bull's in there following — so they've made it. There's a great final slide where they say chip time is

[03:37] greater than Strava time, which is greater than ego — always has been, always will be. Off the back of that, I'm just looking at a story from today — we don't need to say who it is — but there's a fella who's posted his result, looks like it's the Berlin Marathon. They've called him out and said, hey, we've checked the official results and it's not adding up here — 3:59 versus 3:something, there's a two-minute discrepancy — but they go one

[04:08] step further: why did they get blocked? They made the comment, and then suddenly he blocked their account. Has this been happening to others? They're not stopping at one, this is a deep investigation. I think you can expect to see plenty of people blocking this site. There's a level of seriousness to it, but there's a level of humour to it as well — I think this is going to be a really fun follow. At the same time, I'd say to people that if I agree

[04:39] with what they're saying about running — I don't think it needs protection — but you and I have a bit of a laugh about the influencer nature that running has become, and we've had it thrown back in our faces by people saying, 'you guys are running influencers too,' and we may be, but not in the sense of the type of content that gets put out by some running influencers. Yet — it might be on the way. But I love the idea that this account has been made

[05:10] to protect the authenticity of marathon times and half marathon times and distances run and all the rest of it. I think if you follow this for what it will be, you'll enjoy it. And it's not just picking on runners — as a long-time professional triathlete, triathlon is notoriously short on its run courses, but that never stops a triathlete saying, hey, this is my chip time for the 10K. I don't think there's ever been a triathlon run leg that's actually the right distance.

[05:40] I can't wait for one of the podcast listeners to jump on the anonymous tip line of this account and dob one of us in for something we might have run. Sure, I'm sure we've done something. Hey, but back to the Gold Coast Marathon — amazing that it sold out so quick. I saw a little bit of good marketing — the Hobart Marathon posted pretty much, hey, we know a lot of people have missed out on the Gold Coast Marathon, but hey,

[06:11] come down to the Hobart Marathon. And look, that's all a part of it, right — if you missed out on the Gold Coast, or even half tried, we said it in the midweek episode, jump on the wait list, there will be other opportunities to enter over the coming 30 weeks, because one thing as sure as the sun coming up in the morning is that there will be injuries, there will be withdrawals. Don't get involved if anybody tries to sell you their entry on Facebook — just ignore it, you're not going to be able to transfer it.

[06:42] I'd discourage people — is there a scam? Yeah, and we've hit the point that concerts and festivals get to, where scammers will try and take your money because of the demand for this race. Just don't. The only way you're going to get a legit entry into this race is through the official channels. I'd strongly discourage anybody from trying to find a dodgy way into the race — jump on the wait list, keep an eye out and set up your alerts on the ASICS Gold Coast Marathon accounts and Instagram and all the rest

[07:12] of that — that's the safest way into this marathon if you haven't already got in. I'm glad you're on top of that one. My brother-in-law is in, and my wife and her brother are both running — they're really, really excited, and I've got a host of people from Sydney coming up to be a part of it. Apologies, I don't have the details to hand, but we're at this point now with running where these entries are so scarce and important, but

[07:42] there are always — not loopholes, but workarounds. My understanding, and I might get some of this wrong, is that if you'd entered the Toowoomba Marathon, which is also run by EMC, you actually got preference for the Gold Coast Marathon. Now, I'm not encouraging people to do this, but apparently if you're prepared to just take the hit on the cost —

[08:15] please call out Liam as an influencer, everyone, please do. No, but that's the thing — there's always a workaround, so if you go and run the Toowoomba event, support the Toowoomba event, support the Toowoomba event, and then you get early access to the Gold Coast event. Anyway, T100 — a bit of an update, because we're getting called out hard here on entries. We didn't have a team, so I've investigated, and from

[08:46] my understanding — we're still going to go back a little bit on this — but for the moment, if you do enter, the team name will be 'In the Beginning Podcast.' That's what I put in when I entered. You don't have to, there's no drop-down menu to retrospectively go and put that in, we're still looking into it, but if you're really keen, go back into your entry and have a look — you might be able to edit your details. Brett, I think, is someone who's

[09:17] Brett Donaghy — big fan of the podcast who's been on board since early days. I know he's entered and was trying to find a team name, so Brett, go back in and see if you can add 'In the Beginning Podcast' as your team name for your T100 entry, and let us know how you go so we can pass that on. Again, a reminder for everybody — if you missed Benita during the week, that T100 10K event in March is the perfect bridging event. Benita talked about how you've got 30 weeks until the Gold Coast Marathon and you obviously can't go into

[09:49] marathon mode now — you need to plan out the next 30 weeks, and you shouldn't be approaching your marathon block until April, which means you need to find events that will bridge that gap. This March T100 10K race — and again, this isn't just my opinion, these are the thoughts of the greatest distance runner this country has ever produced, Benita Willis — that 10K event in March is a perfect one to build towards, and then you've got other events you can include in your training.

[10:19] 100% — that's what she suggested for me straight off the bat. So you're in the T100 10K? I'm in. OK, you weren't prepared to say your marathon time, so I'll ask again — you tell me when you're ready to say that. OK, 10K time for the T100 — same answer, huh? No, come on, you can't go predicting a time. What would you like — what time would make you happy? What's your 10K time in March next year at

[10:51] the T100? Understand the answer is nothing's going to make me happy. That's so true. I'm not going to run — the last time I ran, actually the only time — here's a story — the only time I've run the 10 kilometre race at the Gold Coast Marathon event, I have no idea what year it was, but I came second. I was beaten at the time by the Australian 10K record holder, Ben St Lawrence.

[11:23] Yeah, and I believe I ran 30 minutes and 10 seconds, and I think he'd just cracked 30 — this is pre super shoes, I'll put my asterisk on there. But yeah, it was Ben St Lawrence — I remember well, that's the only reason I remember the run, because I got beaten by Ben and then he went on to break the Australian record. That, I believe, could be the last time I've run a timed 10K

[11:53] run. So to answer your question, what would make me happy — 2008 Gold Coast, this is about when it was still the Southern Cross University 10K run, males 25 to 29 category. You ran a 30:14 — that's four seconds off. Get the integrity unit out here, please.

[12:23] It actually says you came third overall — I didn't get third, I got second in my category, obviously racing against Ben there, but it says you came third overall. I reckon there was a wonky time in there, but the integrity unit's just called it wrong. Do you know what else you did that year? You came seventh in the City2Surf. You're right, you came fifth in the Bridge to Brisbane. Sorry, no, I'm getting the years confused — I've gone back, that was 2007. Yeah, anyway, results.

[12:53] Who's stuck living in the past, Liam? You asked me — I love nothing more than being able to Google your name and look at how fast you used to run back in the day as a triathlete, 'cause that was my day job. That's what I mean, I ran alright for a triathlete, that's good. Look, you asked what would make me happy — every PB would make me happy. What's your PB? Probably 30:18. I'm just saying, I haven't run a 10K — that's the last 10K I can recall running.

[13:24] So you want to break 30 minutes? You want to break 30 minutes — let's just say it, you want to break 30 minutes. I'd love to break 30 minutes. If your time started with a 2, would you have a smile on your face? Of course I would, OK, but I'm not going to say that, because I haven't run a 10K since 2008. I don't think there's anything wrong with that — this is where you and I differ significantly, you're very much like, let's wait until the ink is completely dry on something before we even announce it.

[13:55] As soon as I have a thought, I want to announce it — that's OK, but the more obvious thing is, we'll be at the T100, we'll be running 'In the Beginning Podcast' as the team name if you want to join. By then we might have something for everyone to run in if you want to join in — we're trying to find some pieces, we're not going to give too much away, but there'll be a uniform, put it that way. So it'll be exciting.

[14:28] I'm on the Red Bulls — you're on the Red Bulls too, yeah, early morning Red Bulls at the moment, because it's been a hell of a week. I was sitting in Brisbane — we're on daylight savings time up here now — I was on Sydney time yesterday and had to get up to Brisbane early for an office, so I was sitting in a cafe in the middle of some industrial area, I don't know where, 5:30 in the morning, and I got the beautiful, one of my favourite

[14:58] times of the year — I got spammed with the Spotify yearly wrap-up and also the Strava yearly wrap-up. I haven't checked my Strava — I think I've been given mine early, because you're a pro, right, I think they give certain people early access. Feel free to call us out for getting a special thing. You've already had a year in sport, I reckon what they want to do is

[15:29] get out on the forefront and start sharing it, and I don't like that — I actually believe everyone should get it at the same time. Well, you should wait before you share yours. Let's do it when I have mine. You don't have to tell me to wait, I won't share mine now. You will share yours, of course you will. I won't share mine. Why not? Let's go and look at what I do — no, we need to talk about

[15:59] us having a wrap — we can talk about it on the podcast. I mean, I'm not going to post it, but you need — don't talk about it yet, talk about it when I've got mine. But what we are — everyone got their Spotify personal one, we're going to talk about our ages and what music we listen to after this. But first I want to get into it, because we get a back-end one from the podcast as well. The one thing that stood out most is our great listener base

[16:30] that's out there each week with us. I don't know your music choices — this is fair, I don't know if Courtney's seen this data. Can I say, before you get into this, big shout out to everyone who's had so many people message me to say In the Beginning was their number one podcast, through all the Instagram messages that come through sharing our podcast — it's amazing, so thank you. But here's where it's back on you, everyone —

[17:01] we're talking as you run along this morning, as you run along. From our listener base, what would be the number one song, or even let's do artist, Liam, because songs are quite hard to choose. 2025 — from our listener base, what's the number one song or artist they listen to? I'm going to say the number one song in 2025 for our audience was Jelly Roll's 'Liar.' Jelly Roll didn't make the top

[17:35] five artists, I think, because we've got some country — Zach Bryan was number two, Luke Combs was number four, Morgan Wallen — are you amused? It's probably like working radio, you know these. So they were number two, three and four. Now number one and five are the most outlying — let me throw a couple of artists at you.

[18:06] Olivia Dean, by any chance? I don't know who that is. She's had a very big year. Did Oasis crack it, with the Oasis resurgence? No. Give me a clue — I'll go to number five for you: Fred Again. Oh yeah, OK, I mean, I'd probably be a fan of Fred Again, but I'm thinking I'm probably not our audience on that one. OK, good — running music, is the number one artist modern, old school —

[18:38] pretty much one of the biggest. I'm going to give you a hint — Taylor Swift? It was Swifty, yeah. Can you believe it? Do you know how I picked that — the way you rolled your eyes. Who's massive, who's listening to her — she's massive, mate. I'll tell you what, obviously we've got a decent female audience, and I think guys out there are running to Taylor too. Parents last year, you reckon?

[19:10] Last year, my Spotify wrap said I was a top 2% listener globally of Taylor Swift, because my daughter made me listen to Taylor Swift every day on the way to school — I was in the top 2% of Taylor Swift listeners on Spotify globally, so much so that if you make that list you get a special message that they've recorded. I had a special message from Taylor Swift, because every day on the way to school Quinn was making me listen to her songs.

[19:41] I'd say that's great — I hope we've got a lot of young women listening to the podcast who love their running, got involved with the running boom, and are listening to us and then listening to Taylor Swift. I'd also think we'd have a lot of parents with young kids using their Spotify account. I nearly spat my coffee out at this cafe when I read — it was early — some of the early stuff, this most recent album isn't great running music, some of the early stuff's good running music. Courtney's shaking his head.

[20:16] Sorry, it is — some of Taylor's stuff. Actually, it's funny you mention this, because we'll go back to the wrap in a second — I was running yesterday and I came up with an idea for a reel, which is me running to all the songs I never get to play on the radio station I work at, because I was listening. Tell us about that, 'cause you said, after we interviewed Jelly Roll, 'I don't care what the producer says, I'm playing Jelly Roll.'

[20:46] Did you? Yeah, I played Jelly Roll — I think I played 'Liar' on the radio, and they were cool with that. To pull back the curtain a little bit, gone are the days of calling up and requesting a song, it's just not how it works anymore for the most part — there's a computer algorithm that picks the songs, all the songs get tested on the audience, like, hey, what do you think of this? So there's testing done, there's a skill and an art form to it, but rarely do

[21:16] the people on air actually get to dictate the songs being played. So yesterday, what I was running to was the Verve's 'Lucky Man,' which is a cracking song you'd never be able to play — well, we might, but we just don't. There's just a lot of music I don't get to hear. So I was running along to that, thinking this is a great song. Hip hop, we don't get to play — not triple M's main choice, although the electronic stuff, they could do work on. There's a lot of country songs

[21:46] we don't get to play — we'll get to the country in a moment. Pulling back that curtain, can you tell how it works with music licensing? Like, if you play Jelly Roll, are you paying a licensing fee every time you play that song? We have to pay a fee to what's it called, APRA — I've been across this a little bit, there's a fee. One of my first

[22:17] jobs — sorry, I'll jump in — one of the biggest things that surprised me is that if you're a larger corporate office and you're playing music in your office, you're meant to be paying a licence. When I worked at a surf store in Adelaide while at uni, we had a company that dictated our music and we had to only play that, because we were paying a fee to play it, and if we played any other music it would incur a different fee. One of my first jobs was at the radio station, early doors, like 12 years ago.

[22:47] I had to sit there on a DOS-style computer program, and the system had missed logging a bunch of songs throughout the last financial year or whatever, and so the APRA reporting was off. I literally had to spend a week going through and manually ticking off these songs on the computer program. So yeah, the songs we play are the songs we play for a reason.

[23:17] There's a lot of great music. Getting into country then — so those three you guessed were the country stars. I knew country was popular at the moment, but I didn't think if you took a running audience predominantly and said, what are three of the main artists out of that audience, they'd come back country. Well, I think this arcs back to something you and I have talked about — remember

[23:50] we had a conversation many months ago on the podcast about the money involved in surfing, and you gave me that incredible insight — that back in the heyday of Parko and Kelly and Mick, the money for the surfers was generated out of clothing and apparel. Now that market, the middle-aged people who used to buy the Billabong T-shirts, the boardshorts and the Rip Curl gear, and the

[24:20] Quiksilvers, had pivoted, and that's now an audience that's gone and bought Ringers Western and RM Williams and these country brands. I think this is a reflection of that change in market too — whereas years gone by, bands with a surfing counterculture sound might have been appealing,

[24:50] as they've changed their clothes, they've also changed their music — while they wear RM Williams and Ringers Western, they're also running to the pop-country stuff, the Zach Bryan and the Luke Combs and all the rest. I'm just impressed you know your country brands better than you know your streaming running brands. I do actually. So do you have more data out of our Strava, our Spotify wrap? I was enjoying our chat on this.

[25:22] No, it's — so I mean, obviously everyone gets their Spotify wrap, and the podcast one's probably a little bit different, but three of the big stats that came through we're stoked on: we actually got called a 2025 marathon show — that's got nothing to do with running, complete coincidence, but obviously size of podcast matters here — fans that listen to In the Beginning listen for longer than 99% of other shows. So thank you, everyone who's listening to us,

[25:54] for the retention, for hanging out with us, even though we often go on tangents away from running — right now you're hanging with us on one. Amazing, thank you. Top 1% on Spotify of shared podcasts — wow, so thank you again, well done. And then finally, in the top 1% of podcasts overall — that's amazing, so thank you. That's the warm and fuzzies, that's so cool.

[26:24] Well done to everyone — actually, not well done, thank you. Genuinely, Courtney and I, this started because we enjoyed the conversations we were having, we weren't sure if anybody else would care, so to get that kind of feedback in data, on top of the anecdotal support we've received throughout the year — I will never forget the feeling on the finish line of the Gold Coast Marathon, the amount of people coming up and saying hi, shouting out, saying thank you. That, for me anecdotally, was reason enough to keep doing this

[26:56] podcast — even if we did nothing else, didn't go on any other adventures, didn't do any partnerships or sponsorships, that reason alone, those people coming up and anecdotally saying, hey, I've been listening, thanks so much, and seeing them finish a race, was reason enough. Now, at the end of a year like this, it just gets me so excited to keep going. Has there been one particular person you've run into who's said they listen, that's kind of surprised you?

[27:28] I'll tell you a quick story. A week and a half ago I got a message and email from the Cairns radio station asking if the AFLW grand final was on this weekend, Lions v Kangaroos, could they give me a call to talk about it on the show. Of course I said absolutely no worries, and so Tammy and JB, the breakfast show in Cairns, called me up. We chatted about the AFL

[27:58] grand final, and then we finished recording, and Tammy said, hey Liam, I listen to your podcast with Courtney. I was blown away — I didn't think anybody within our radio network knew about the podcast, though some of them run and listen. But I didn't think somebody up in Cairns knew about it, let alone listened.

[28:28] Shout out to Tammy — I've known her for years, but with that radio and presenting background, she does the same job you do, MCing Ironman events all around the world, at least around Asia — calling finish lines. But I had one at the Gold Coast Marathon earlier this year, someone came up to me at the end as they were finishing and said, 'Liam, faster not longer,' because we had that little catchphrase for a minute there — well, it's still there.

[29:00] Yeah, I get that one, why people called out — now you're going to do a Milo, you've absolutely earned that. Well, no, 'cause I'm running it faster. No — so the fact that all this information is coming in shows it's not just the way we feel about the podcast, but the way you people who are listening feel about it too. Very, very excited for 2026. Have you got anything more from your wrap? No, because I've got something else — let's get onto this. Just quickly on my wrap, my Spotify top five artists

[29:33] for the year — I'm just going to tell you mine, because there's a real standout. Yeah, I'm interested. My number one artist was Mumford and Sons — they had a new album out this year I fell in love with and listened to a lot. That's not running music. Jack Johnson was number two, Post Malone was in at four, Oasis was in at five. But the number three artist on my top five was Hugh Jackman, and this — can I take a guess at this?

[30:04] Go for it — greatest showman, bang. I've been there with my kids. Three of the songs off the 'Greatest Showman' soundtrack were in my top five most-listened-to songs. This is why. I remember when my son was that age, 'The Greatest Showman' — I think it may have even been during COVID, back end of COVID, I went on a road trip, went from

[30:34] the Gold Coast, drove all the way out, spent Christmas at Uluru, then went all the way down the coast through Coober Pedy, out west camp, down to your neck of the woods in SA, and came all the way back. I've got a feeling it was that trip, I reckon I listened to 'The Greatest Showman' about half the time. How old was your listening age? 23.

[31:05] What are you listening to that's ageing you to 23? Because I was 38. I'm trying to find my 23 — I'm just listening to the wheels turn, trying to find my wrap. Why does it keep — I'm going to find these. Courtney's searching through his wrap. While Courtney's searching through that, we have a little

[31:36] bit — oh, here we go, there you go, you found it. So it's all the Fred Again stuff that's ageing you down, gotcha. My top song was — why doesn't it tell you who they are? I reckon I'm going to try listening to a bit of Fred Again. What do you reckon my top song would have been? Something by Fred Again? No, sorry — probably some country? No, actually — oh, there's a song.

[32:07] You've told us before, that song you love running to most — it's a 360 song. Yeah, 360. No, my top song was 'Down Under,' but it was a techno version, an electronic version — 'Land Down Under' on the techno side. That's why you're ageing down, because you're embracing all that. Royal Otis — number one, awesome, they were in my top. Good Neighbours, up there too. So I think now's a good time — we've just talked about how much we appreciate the support of the audience.

[32:38] A little bit of news for everybody out there — it's not just Courtney and I who feel good about the podcast, it's not just you the listeners saying it's good. Courtney, we are an award-nominated podcast. Thank you — In the Beginning has, at the Gold Coast — is this the Triple M Gold Coast? No, no, Courtney, In the Beginning is a finalist for the

[33:08] 2025 Australian Sports Commission Media Awards. Sports Commission, yeah, we've been shortlisted as one of the five finalists for Best Sport Podcast of 2025. So my immediate question is, who else — what kind of podcasts? We're up against the podcast that won last year, which is the Final Word cricket podcast, Backcourt, which is a Netball Australia podcast, ABC Sport Daily by the ABC, Sportish by Libby Trickett and her

[33:39] sister Georgie Trickett, and then In the Beginning by Liam Flanagan and Courtney Atkinson. So we're finalists — next February we'll be headed to the SCG for the awards night, all the big swinging — that's news to me. Yeah, we're off, we get to go down there for an awards night, suited and booted. I think Bruce McAvaney is receiving some big award on the night, and you and I will hopefully be bringing home a trophy — against ABC. I'll tell you what, I'd be disappointed if we lost to ABC, can I say that? I've lost this

[34:11] award before — I did a podcast in a previous life that also made the final, and lost it to ABC. Who did I lose to — I lost narrowly. Meadows had a podcast — it's a government organisation, you know, they're skewed towards — they don't like private companies. We're being judged on the quality of our work, Courtney Atkinson. Not well — that could be another issue. Anyway, good news, very good news. Just jumping into some running — can I thank everybody, because

[34:43] the amount of people who've reached out offering to help me with the Milo Challenge — you're sought after, aren't you? I don't know whether it's a good thing or a bad thing, whether they look at me as a charity case that needs help or a project they can mould into their own. I hope you just see coat-tails you can jump on, because I'm going to go so well. But no, thank you — there's been so many people reaching out and offering help and support, and I'm going to get back to you all. I'll take all the help and support that's being offered to me at the moment. And can I also say one more

[35:15] thing, guys — Reedy is a friend, he's very much on my side. What did you do? I had a few people reach out saying, oh, stuff Reedy, and I'm like, no — concerned for you, mental health-wise, Reedy? He's just being Reedy, he's just being the pragmatic, practical person he is — he's trying to keep my feet firmly on the ground, he just did it in a more direct way than I did. Reedy is very much of the Courtney Atkinson school of

[35:45] running and approach to running, whereas I'm off with the fairies thinking life's great, everything's going to be a piece of cake. So Reedy's very much in my corner, but he's one of those realistic voices that's good to have if you're tackling anything like this Milo Challenge. Tell us about your running, what's going on? I'm feeling really good, I'm loving the gym work, my legs feel very strong. Strava — I'm going to jump around here.

[36:15] Because I think — you know how we've talked about the growth of Strava and the private listing, or public listing, of Strava that's been reported as well — I think I've figured out a natural evolution for Strava, whatever you want to call it, because right now for anybody with the paid subscription, when you run it provides AI analysis — it gives you a little synopsis, what does it call it, athlete intelligence.

[36:47] I went for a run — I'll be pretty blunt, it's pretty useless. This is my point, right — I went for a run the other day and saw Matt Hauser, and it's funny, since we had Matt Hauser on this show I see him everywhere, he lives nearby to me, I've seen him everywhere since we did that episode. He gave me a wave — we were running the other way, thankfully. OK, but let me read you this athlete intelligence — I want you to listen to what Strava gave me and try

[37:19] and predict what I did, if that makes sense. Sure. The athlete intelligence from Strava for my run: 'A speedy run with a final kilometre hitting your fastest pace of the month and crushing some intense intervals. This run was a solid performance, significantly faster than your 30-day average pace. Your heart rate distribution shows a strong effort, with nearly 55% of time spent in tempo and threshold zones. The activity featured impressive interval work with quick paces during one-minute and 92-second intervals that demonstrate good speed and intensity.'

[37:51] Jesus, a fair bit in that. Talk about social media skewing your mind on your running — what did you hear out of that? Well, it's picking up that there are repetitions in there, you must have been doing some type of over-under or repetition work — but knowing what the AI often does on Strava, did you build your run? That was a Mona

[38:21] session, right in the — you're right, yeah. But here's what — and this is where I think, because there are universal truths in running, like Mona is a universal session, Strava should be able to see that. You think it should? Strava should be able to review that run and go, this is a Mona session, and

[38:52] provide the feedback appropriately — that's where that AI element of Strava, the benefit of Strava having purchased Runna, that training programme, that's the evolution I'd love to see them arrive at, where they can observe and analyse a session you've done and actually bring running intelligence to it. Does that make sense? Sorry, I just got a message from Benita of all people saying, 'Liam, don't listen to Strava.'

[39:23] She's obviously heard that was a shit session — don't listen to Strava. What are you doing running Mona, you're meant to be resting? She's listening. No, you know what I'd want to hear from her about AI and Strava — I agree it should pick up Monas, but it should then give you practical advice, say, hey, this is an improvement on your Monas,

[39:56] maybe you should think about doing this session to build on your fitness, or you could tack this on next time. Or if it goes the opposite way and it can see your heart rate's high, it could say, I can see you've had a tough day — but the weather was 30 degrees and humid, don't worry about it too much, come back next week. That's practical. Because for anybody who's used ChatGPT for anything,

[40:30] ChatGPT is eternally optimistic and positive — it's really hard to get a real, true critique of anything from ChatGPT. I've actually tried asking it to make some negative jokes before and it wasn't prepared to, it basically said no. And that's where, to your point, Strava's AI — that athlete intelligence, that feedback, that critique — needs to be more

[41:01] critical. Honestly, right now, if it's true AI it's obviously training on something, but right at the moment, don't even bother — it's nothing more than a pat on the bum, it's useless. Yeah, it's absolutely a cheerleader, not even that — just take it off until it's at a point where it's actually worthwhile. Hey, speaking of AI, I've done a

[41:32] few trips to Brisbane this week, four-hour round trips these days, up and back. There's been plenty of podcasts on the way — all the bigger US podcasters have been really into the AI stuff lately, the whole notion of, what's it going to be, the end of the world. You don't want to listen to too much of that stuff, they talk about it getting pretty dark, you don't want to be thinking about it.

[42:03] So Strava, get rid of it — it's something we don't need. Now I've got a question for you, going back to my running — I did a Mona session, and by the way, I've been through this phase before, where you do enough easy runs — I've just been kind of ticking my legs over, averaging 40 to 50Ks a week just to keep the legs rolling, but it's all been easy or up in the trails. And if you do that for long enough and avoid speed, it can be intimidating to go out

[42:35] and do a speed session. That Mona session is one of my favourite sessions I've done for a while — it wasn't overly taxing, it wasn't a hard session. Where did you do it? I just did it out the front on the flats, on the south end of the coast. My average pace over just over 10Ks was 4:42, which is as quick an average pace over 10K as I've had for a very long time. So you're moving well. I had a great run, and then yesterday I had a really easy run, deliberately averaged 5:20 pace for

[43:08] 11Ks, deliberately really slow, tried to really focus on just cruising, and that run felt great. So I woke up this morning off the back of that run feeling amazing, body feels really good. This weekend though, and this is what I want to talk to you about, I want to go up Pages Pinnacle. Cool — are you asking me to take you? How do I do it? No, you don't have to take me, but how do I do it? I'd love to —

[43:38] we're going to come full circle here on influencers. Who's to blame? Bloody Matty Poole — I've never met Matt, he seems like a great fella, an Ironman guy, one of the crew there, you know, he failed to qualify for this year's series, so he does some commentary work now. I love it — what was he doing up at Pages?

[44:08] He was up there — he'd done a sponsored post for the Oakley Meta glasses, the new ones with the glasses in the front, and he did this reel and sold me on it — hey, because he's sold on Pages, or the glasses? It was actually a sponsored post for the Oakley Meta glasses, not for Pages Pinnacle, but he's at the top there saying, hey, looking over the side, what's the elevation up here and all that sort of stuff. And then I was like, I want to go up there, I've got to have a look.

[44:39] I can't imagine Matt being too coordinated to get across Pages properly — no, I don't say that in a mean way, there's no other way to say it. He's a waterman, there's no other way to criticise someone's coordination. No, I don't mean it — I'd be happy to be criticised in the water myself, I don't mean it in a negative way, but you looked really — because I know he's a waterman. And Pages, I think I told this story.

[45:09] I took a monster NFL, Australian NFL player, I can't remember, I took him up there. I've taken plenty of people up Pages — the ridgeline, depends which way you go, there are two options. You can get across the first ridgeline, and it's not vertical, so it's not crazy, but it's enough that if you're a little bit scared of heights or worried about your footing, it's not the easiest place to get across.

[45:39] There's a bit where you've got to have three points of contact climbing across, or you can duck under and walk along the edge underneath the first cliff and get around. I never know how people are getting out there, but I've taken a few people across that top ridge, and you want to be sure of your footing. The reason I say that, not having a go at Matty, is that

[46:09] he's a big water guy, he's a big guy. He can run though, he runs really well, but he's a tall, big guy with big feet, and I just can't imagine him getting across Pages, like really running across it. So where do you go — same path up from Springbrook, is that your access point, or do you go from the Numinbah Valley way? We can go both ways — it's definitely a longer slog to come from what they call Pollys down the bottom, which is the Springbrook way.

[46:39] There's a loop you can run around, but it's a tough old loop. Well, hey, basically what I'm looking for — as I said, I've had a really great Mona session this week, a nice easy run — do you just want to walk up there to see it? I'm looking for — I'm having a great time out on the border trail, I had a great single-track run, you and I went out for a run around the

[47:09] border trail whenever we did, and I knew the fire track, and you said there's a whole heap of single trails down there, and then I ran it with a neighbour the other week, and now I'm just going to be running single trails through there — it's amazing through there. So this is what I say — I know I shouldn't say it, I'm not going to say it. No, I'll backtrack on that. The single trail stuff, we talked a bit about it when we were introducing Lee to

[47:39] trail running a few weeks back, or when you did that entry-level thing to trail running — it's way nicer running on the single track. It is way nicer, but it also takes a level of confidence and familiarity with your environment to feel comfortable doing it, particularly by yourself. I'm now comfortable running single trails through the border trail because it's kind of like the Gold Coast in that it's a strip — I know I can't get lost on the left because it's old mate from Billabong who owns that whole section, and I can't get lost on the right because it's the road. So I've got this corridor to work within, and I'm not going to

[48:10] get lost. Do you know that area — random story — COVID's over, we can talk about it now. During COVID, with all the border stuff going on, literally as you're running through that single track, the fence line up there is the border, so effectively on the single track, my understanding is you're running in NSW on the other side. So during COVID, with all the issues happening, there was nothing stopping someone just walking up into that area —

[48:42] it wasn't a hard border, not if you knew the border trails. But the reason I asked about Pages Pinnacle is because I'm loving the border trails — I know Nerang is there for me when I get the time to make the drive up and run around Nerang, but I'm also looking to explore more trails. Well, explore away — Pages isn't for running, there's no running there, that's a climb, it's a hike.

[49:13] If you go from the Numinbah Valley side, you're literally going to climb 3K straight up a hill — which isn't a bad thing either, because that's a hard 3K. The other feedback I keep getting from everybody who's reached out about the Milo Challenge is stairs, stairs, stairs, stairs, stairs. But what I'm saying is there are better options if you want to go and run — but if you just want to go and see Pages Pinnacle, I'd like to do both, it's probably better to just go and grab some food and go up for sunset or sunrise, it's more of a hike.

[49:45] Have you taken your kids up it? Yeah, the last time I took the kids up we went for sunset — this was a few years ago now — it was super fun. How old were they? A bit younger than your kids' age now, but I recall we had a great time — you want something to do with your kids that's fun, go and do those single trails at night with head torches.

[50:15] Oh really? Yeah, 100%, put some Taylor Swift on, kids in the dark in the bush, they're going to have an absolute ball — as long as they don't take their head torches off and disappear. You've got trackers on your kids? I don't have those. Yeah, but that's where I'm at with running — again, body feels good, I do need to — there's kind of the looming spectre in

[50:46] my life, as we've talked about before, which is the qualification race, so I've got to make sure I've got that one locked in. But no, I'm loving running at the moment, it's great. I've got running news, in the sense that I'm at a point now where I can start to talk about it — it's not just going out, that's why I haven't talked about it much until now, it's been a little bit like, should you post a run on Strava — did you see that little run of mine on Strava yesterday? Well, should you post a run on Strava, or if you just go and run a 10K easy or 5K easy or

[51:17] whatever, should you post it? You can post whatever you want on Strava, but the question is, should you — I never really saw the point of talking to people and going, oh, what have you been doing? Running. Well, I've been running — there's nothing more to it than that. This week, however, I've obviously been doing a fair bit of gym, it's all going well. Got into the Spit with the crew on Tuesday, and I've been warming up with them — this is with the Gold Coast group, they're moving pretty quick — I warm up with them, and then

[51:49] I've just been kind of jogging along for the 20 or 30 minute session, or whatever, and then jogging out and keeping it nice. And this week I thought the session was four minutes on, run or whatever, and then four minutes — one minute easy on float, 30 seconds fast, 30 seconds float, back into the four minutes, four times. So it's a 24 minute session — good session, great session, it was like super

[52:20] good session — Louis suggested it. So just for everybody out there playing along, break that down — you warm up, 20 minute warm-up, and then it's four rounds through the set, which is a six-minute set: four minutes on, one minute off — 30 seconds on, 30 seconds off, times four. So it's 30 seconds fast and then 30 seconds rest, four-minute pacing.

[52:50] Well, everyone was doing the pace they could control — I don't think it was too much. So you're trying to run — when they say four minutes on, that's four minutes fast, four minutes fast, with the allowance that you can then pick it up in the 30 seconds. So it's a pace you've got to be able to hold, but you've got to have another gear to go to, even if it's just for 30 seconds, and you've got to be able to sustain it through four sets. I'm sure there was a prescription, but given I didn't plan to run it and wasn't listening beyond that — what I did, I ran on the back of them and just kind of started tapping along, and it felt good, so I kept

[53:23] tapping along, felt better, kept tapping along. So for those out there who love their stats, this was the first time I've run pretty much any quicker than easy jogging in a fair while now, and I think we averaged just under four minutes for the whole

[53:54] 24-minute effort. Well, great, so then I've been away — busy week. Wednesday night, I'll give a shout out to the Brisbane Olympics — this week we had 'Believe, Belong, Become,' did you get a heads up? Did you get the media release? Yep, the new motto, 'Believe Belong Become,' Brisbane 2032. That's stolen from a school, really — Kings

[54:24] College in Brisbane, that's the school motto, is that — the exact school motto, really? Can you fact check that? I'd say a big agency would have come up with that. Anyway, I've been behind the scenes helping get that campaign launched, doing some content — it was a big opening night, at Star City up in Brisbane, and I'll tell you what, was it an opening — you know, Pot Bellies,

[54:57] one of their songs is the campaign song — once all the — I love it, I think that's Pot Bellies, what's their other song, Hot Bellies? They did a few crackers — they came out after all the dignitaries got up and did their bit.

[55:27] So there was a panel — our friend the sprinter Lachy Kennedy out of Brisbane was up on stage, and a few of the mayors from around Queensland got up and had their say around the new campaign. So it's exciting. What got me thinking, though, is

[55:57] because they're always sticking cameras and microphones in your face trying to get comments on what's believed and what's belonging and all of this, and I just keep coming back to — six and a half years is such a long time. How many kids out there right now have no idea they're going to be in the Brisbane Olympics in six and a half years?

[56:27] There will be young kids out there right now with no idea, but in six and a half years they could well be right in the thick of it, in some of those younger sports. It's exciting, right? The reason I say that is, Lachy was up there, the way he was talking, obviously as an athlete right now — and Matt Hauser would be in the same situation,

[56:57] getting excited about home games now. But six and a half years is so long in sport to predict — you're thinking about it now, but it's still so far away. Let me bring it back to the everyday runner listening to this right now — on Wednesday's episode with Benita, we talked about the 30-week run-up to the Gold Coast Marathon, and Benita's saying you've got to get out of marathon mode, you can't switch into it until April, right?

[57:31] Which gives you a 14-week lead-in. So essentially you're saying, forget about it for the next 16 weeks. Now take that to the Olympic mode, six and a half years — those athletes probably aren't going to — tell me if this is accurate — really turn their attention to Brisbane until, what, 2029? For the first-timers, for those athletes who

[58:04] won't make LA, maybe because they're not old enough yet — realistically they won't be able to seriously turn their attention to Brisbane until 2029. It's so long away, but that's the whole point, this is a foundation campaign — I know for a fact there are some sports petitioning hard to get in, there was mention of — it's a bit of a hot take, the information's not really there, but I believe those

[58:36] sports sound like they're pretty much decided already. Well, they've already applied — no, I mean it's now in the hands of the committee. Oh, I see what you're saying, yeah. So the petitioning right now isn't going to be helping — this is me personally talking, I don't have any information, but if you're a member of a games organising committee, don't give up on petitioning, because Courtney thinks it's done, but —

[59:07] I think at this stage the petitioning has been done, I'm not sure when the results come out, but it'll be really interesting to see which sports they choose, it's going to be fascinating. Here's one good question for you — which sport that could be chosen do you believe is the most left-field? For LA, the most left-field sport to me was flag football. Actually, rowing — someone was telling me the other day.

[59:37] Well, the one that's strange for LA is cricket, because it's an American game — just bring that in. I don't know how left-field this is, but the one I think should — it's so Australian-specific — is surf ironman/ocean racing. I believe they can't go in under 'Ironman' because that's a copyrighted brand the triathlon owns,

[01:00:07] so whatever title they go in under — ocean man, or whatever it is, that's the one I'd love to see. Well, LA is baseball, softball, cricket, flag football, lacrosse and squash. Squash has been a Commonwealth Games sport, universally played, particularly big with Asian countries as well, and that's a part of it whether we agree with that or not. Someone was telling me — I think I mentioned this — that the most watched sport at the

[01:00:38] Olympic Games — what do you think the most watched sport at the Olympics is? This is a good one — what do you think the most watched sport at the Olympic Games is? Table tennis, correct — because of the Asian audience, so cricket as an example, the Indian audience is one country, but it makes up how many billions of people, makes up all their TV. Right, but for me — I'll declare my bias, I live here on the Gold Coast, I work in radio on the Gold Coast,

[01:01:08] I work in sports commentary here on the Gold Coast, I want Surf Life Saving to get in, because it'll be held here on the Gold Coast, I love the sporting community around Surf Life Saving and the series, I love all of it, and I want to see it at the Olympics because I think it would be epic. Just having a look — if they've got front-runner sports for the — netball. I talked about this with someone the other day — netball's tricky, because my understanding is for a sport to

[01:01:40] be granted inclusion, it needs to be eligible for both genders. What's interesting is they don't play women's baseball at the Olympics, but they play softball, because they don't play men's softball, they play baseball — it's almost like they've split it. Oh, you're asking, I could be wrong. But netball — and this might be a controversial take —

[01:02:12] I think netball should be in the Olympics if they're considered a front-runner, but I don't think there should be a men's competition. Agreed, I'm with you there — 100%. But if it means the women get a chance to compete at the Olympic level, I'm OK with the men getting to do it too, but if I had a choice, I'd rather netball just went in as a women's-only sport. That's how I feel about

[01:02:43] netball. The three sports they're saying are seeking inclusion, just having a quick AI look, are life saving, like you said, touch football — but touch is massive, isn't that flag? No, flag's gridiron, and touch is rugby style — I don't think I'd like an Olympics where both those sports existed. Well, flag won't be at Brisbane.

[01:03:13] Oh, OK, in that case, bring on — I love touch, I think touch is awesome. Actually, another likely sport is flag, but it's pretty American-dominated, if they want it as an exhibition sport, fine, but it can't stay. But touch — and was there another one, karate? Oh, because I got — taekwondo, what's the difference between taekwondo and karate — again, this isn't me saying they're the same thing, I'm just — I've got a taekwondo outfit, that's about the

[01:03:45] one — because taekwondo, what was her name, the female — it's going to annoy me now — Lauren Burns, Lauren Burns competed for Australia in taekwondo, that's where they have the targets on their chest. What's karate?

[01:04:15] So taekwondo and karate both de-emphasise grappling — taekwondo de-emphasises punching, it's strictly kicking, karate often de-emphasises continuous combat. I don't want more of the same, that's my point — it needs to be a big enough differentiation, which is why if flag football stays in by the time Brisbane comes around, I don't want touch too —

[01:04:47] because it's more of the same, I'd rather touch over flag football. I don't know how we got there, but that was off the back of my running — so I was at the Spit, that's where we were, yeah. And then last night I was up in Brisbane, sitting down all day, came back through and thought I'd just skip in and run quickly. That's the run of yours I saw on Strava. So I jumped in — by the way, a few new trail shoes I got in the Black Friday sales.

[01:05:19] What'd you grab? I'm not going to tell you yet — there's a trail shoe I want to try. So here's what's to look forward to — I got a trail shoe that had nothing to do with trail shoes itself, I tried it on out of the box and I believe it could be my favourite shoe ever. In terms of first feel, first impression of a shoe, this is up there with

[01:05:53] at least in recent memory. This shoe, out of the box, I wanted to go straight back to Nerang and run in it, because it had just been delivered the day before. I came home, ran in another new pair of shoes at Nerang at the same time — so we've got some trail shoe comparisons coming. On that run I threw one headphone in, left the other out, got around the track, and I was just out enjoying running

[01:06:25] again, loving it, averaging four-fifties through the trails, taking it nice and easy. I need to settle back down, calm the farm. So that's my conclusion for my running week — the body's feeling good, I need to settle. You need to come back down, yes too. Have you seen the new Nike ACG Zegama? Yeah, I did, I sent that to my brother — I didn't need this, they look ridiculous. I've got to

[01:07:00] check with him — a few people have asked me about it, when I was telling the story about the Zegama 2's improvement — this is the ACG version, the S/LAB version of the Zegama 2, it's got a cut-out in the shoe, looks like it's got a bit more of a midsole plate, possibly running Vibram sole, but it's their

[01:07:33] elite version of the Zegama 2. I'm trying to find one of the original Zegamas so I can take some shots to show you, because I keep getting asked about the idea that the original Zegama's shape made it feel like it would break your ankles, and how they made such a small improvement to it, but it's changed the whole shoe.

[01:08:03] In a positive way. I do want to try that, they look great, I saw them the other day and thought, they look interesting. How's that going, mate — there's a lot going on. I know we harped on about it, and seriously, to everybody who sent through their wrap and included In the Beginning as a part of it for 2025, whether it was number one or you listened once — thank you, that's the motivation we need and rely on to keep going. As Courtney said, we've got some really exciting stuff planned. Hit you again — if you're signed up for the T100 already, go back and try

[01:08:34] and add In the Beginning Podcast as your team for the event. If you haven't signed up, go and sign up — this 10K race in March will be great. Include In the Beginning Podcast as your team name, and we're working on some stuff to have you looking sharp for that race come March next year. We'll see you next time — thanks for listening.