EP 62 - $500 RACE ENTRIES & LIAM SIGNS UP FOR A 100-MILER TRAIL RACE?!

[00:00] In the Beginning, Episode 62. Courtney, we need to start with T100. Yes — I felt like somehow we're to blame for what's just gone on. We were so excited, so happy to be pumping up the T100 Gold Coast event with the 10K run. And can I just straight off the top give a huge shout out to Brett Donaghy, who after listening to last week's episode has said T100 entry, flights and accommodation all done, locked in.

[00:30] Brett listened to last week and he's jumped on flights and accommodation — he's locked in for the T100. He's also made an interesting point: he really thinks we need some podcast racing singlets and caps. He reckons they'd look good seeing them run around at the T100. I've heard there's been a few people calling for merch, and I've said it's in the pipeline. Yeah, with this pipeline of ours it's all clogged up with all sorts of stuff. But I agree, Brett — I think the T100 would be an epic place to launch some podcast merch.

[01:01] So we're working on some stuff, but T100 Gold Coast, the excitement builds. I love the people listening and getting around it. And as we said last week, the 10K race is the one — start your year with this awesome event. We talked it up, we pumped it up. It's going to be such a unique experience here on the Gold Coast. And you know what, we know the Gold Coast team — the events team who run the Gold Coast Marathon flawlessly — they're the ones behind the T100 here.

[01:32] Legitimately an award-winning team, 100%, they win awards for this. They'll go on to talk about some things that happened on the weekend in the world of triathlon a little bit. We need to get to the T100 shortly, but we spoke about T100 last week and I feel we're partly to blame, because obviously people are so captivated and caught up in the T100 hype that the race organisers in Dubai weren't paying attention. You've seen this, you've seen what's played out. I'm across it. Yeah, OK, I'm across it.

[02:02] For those who aren't across it — T100 is a worldwide series, and next year the opening race of the series, as we said, is going to be here on the Gold Coast. The most recent iteration of the series happened in Dubai, which was just a triathlon — let's double down, this is the thing, they don't have what Gold Coast has in the 10K run — they just had this T100 event for the pros and everything's gone sideways. Hayden Wilde has gone an extra lap.

[02:32] Gone an extra lap on the bike. He's come out — I saw it, after the dust had settled, and he's gone, yep, I fully take responsibility, I did the extra lap. However, there was obviously some other things going on with lap counters, and a range of stuff. But the ironic thing was it happened again — in the run. Hayden Wilde and the athlete who was coming second at the time both did the extra lap. And then on the run leg, another

[03:03] set of athletes did extra laps. And in the end, Morgan Pearson was declared the winner an hour after the race had finished — they had to go away and count everything. Morgan Pearson's been declared the winner. Questions I have for you — Hayden Wilde came out and put his hand up, sure, wasn't happy during the race, no, no, no. How much responsibility does he need to take? You've raced professionally all around the world. Look, the onus should be, you

[03:34] always say the onus is on the athletes, know the course, that's rule number one, right? But when you're racing at that level, you also have an expectation — I believe it should just be run properly. Yes, the onus is on you. But then also, if someone's showing you a lap board that says four and it's actually five, you're going second. You saw the other athletes running across the line or running into transition knowing full well they're not winning. And then there's no bikes in there.

[04:04] So there's a lot more to it than just, hey, here's a lap board, it was wrong, it was right, whatever else it is. I'll tell you a story — I've been through something kind of similar. I did a long course race in Koh Samui in Thailand. Someone will correct me on this, I don't know exactly what it was, but I'm going to guess I think the prize money for first might have been 30,000 US dollars — significant, big win, big cheque on the line. So there was a number of people in the field who

[04:35] went over to race, and it was a similar distance to this — actually I think it was a bit longer. The run was 30K by memory, might have been 120 or 130K on the bike, and an Ironman-style swim. Now besides the fact that racing in Thailand you're literally on your own fighting the dogs, the cats, the cars, the mopeds coming around corners head on — it's wild racing there — but in this case it was a two-lap course. The first lap we went through, mm

[05:08] hmm — now I'm going to get this wrong, this is where it tests my memory, I'll backtrack on whether it was two laps or not. What happened close to the end of the ride — this would be, you know, over two, two and a half hours into the ride — I was leading with another rider and we had a lead motorbike. The way the course worked, you could have gone straight into town and done the last, say, 11-50K to transition, but the actual course took a left-hand turn and

[05:38] had an extra loop on it to add 30K or whatever. We both turned down that loop and got riding, before, maybe a couple of K down the road, got stopped by cops — literally stopped on our bikes and told no, you're going the wrong way, turn around. We knew the course was that way, we turned down there fully knowing the consequence. But what do you do when you've got international cops telling you wrong way, go back, go back, go back?

[06:11] So we went back and followed on to the transition. What happened was the second, third, fourth, fifth, a few others — some went around the loop, some went straight. So some rode 30K longer, some rode straight back to transition like we did. It just wasn't clear on course that day. The onus is on the athlete though, to know. So what happened — we got onto the run, and at this stage I was winning the run, and about three quarters of the way through, Jürgen Zäck, who anyone into triathlon would know

[06:43] from the Hawaii Ironman days — German guy who was helping run the race — came out and said stop, you've got to stop. And I blew my gasket, you know, like, we're just following — not angry, but frustrated — 'cause at this stage it was, well, we were seriously stopped, and you'd gone back knowing there was stuff going on in the course, not knowing what had happened behind us. But he just said you have to stop. When he finally settled me down,

[07:13] he explained: don't worry, you're a long way ahead, but I need you to take, effectively, a penalty of ten minutes or whatever, you just have to wait ten minutes to carry on. So they tried to even the race up within the race. I went on to finish, but there was a bit of — did you win? I won, yes, but there was a bit of a shit-storm after this. Certain athletes started calling people out on social media, cheats and everything else. And I quite pride myself

[07:43] on being, I believe, a pretty conscientious person when it comes to that stuff. This went back and forth, and I'm like, look, there was two of us, the cops turned us around, this is the situation — and in the end I just blocked it out and said whatever, you know, get out. At the time I had all this on Strava, so I had the proof. We actually rode in — why would you ride the loop, do 2K, turn around and then

[08:15] come back out for no purpose? So we had the evidence there supporting it, but it always puts a blacklist on a race — it can never be the same once that occurs, no matter whose fault it is. And to me, this is T100 — there's no answer, no outcome that's going to suffice, that makes it all right. We'll get back to T100 in a sec, I just want to go back to your experience — firstly, I've never seen you blow up like that, I've never seen you running, but also with anger.

[08:45] I've never seen you get angry. You talk about being conscientious, you're a very level-headed, even-keeled bloke. Well, I don't think I would have been screaming, but I was wanting — I needed to keep going, I wasn't going to let them hold me up. But they made you stay still for ten minutes? At least ten minutes, yeah, there was a set time — anyone who hadn't done the loop needed to stay stationary for that. What you don't realise is, this happens when people get caught —

[09:15] another story — when people get caught in a long-distance triathlon and get stood down for, say, a three-minute bike penalty, and then at the end they think, well, if I didn't get the three-minute penalty I would have won, because it's just the three minutes. But you're stationary, you're getting rest — so when you get back on your bike, sometimes you can go a bit better because you're rested, or you might have just broken your rhythm — you don't know. This is my point of the whole story — you don't know what that outcome would have been. Once it happens in a race, you

[09:46] just really have to let it go. That known future you thought was going to happen is gone, and now you can only deal with the reality — you can't manipulate the race. And in the end, what did they do? They just took the last time split, everyone went across together. Did you still get paid the race win? Yes. I don't think it had anything to do with the timings of the race, I think it had to do with Thailand — if that had been a fun run with no money up for grabs, no, they still paid, it did take a long time. And so you were copying strays from —

[10:16] I was like — I don't think I've really, that's probably the most — there's only been a few things that have happened in my whole career where I've been on the receiving end of that, in a way, of a bit of tension. And that was one of them. Just to go back to Hayden for a moment — obviously leading the race on the bike, finished eighth. Did you see his run time? It's an 18K run leg in the

[10:46] T100 racing — 20, maybe it's 20? Yeah, it should be 20. The article I've got says it's for the 18 kilometres — maybe it was different, I don't know. But at the Dubai event, the T100 had an 18K run leg. Do you know what time he ran for it? He ran the fastest run leg — because he was obviously fuelled by anger and he was yelling half of that too, so he could probably have run another minute quicker. He ran 49:19, that's 2:44 pace. That's amazing.

[11:18] And he's come home to finish eighth. We know Hayden's a bloody natural runner — so you're right, why? I don't know what the maths — oh sorry, because it's 100K, so it's my 80K, 80K, yeah — and here's a nice little explainer for you, Courtney, and everybody just jumping in — the T100 format is a 2K swim, 80K bike ride, 18K run. 18K makes the 100K, that's where the name comes from — T100. Did you know that? Until today, until we just went through it, I'd always assumed it was 20K.

[11:48] No — so there you go, it's an 18K run leg, and good luck to anybody who wants to try and beat Hayden Wilde's time of 49:19 on the run, that is lightning fast. Again, I think this happened because we pumped up the T100 so much, we've wheeled it into the conversation, now it's front of mind for anybody out there. You know what they say — good news is good news, bad news, even bad news, there's no such thing as bad publicity. T100 is coming to the Gold Coast, Surfers Paradise, in 2026. The series does kick off here on the Gold Coast.

[12:19] We're going to be getting involved with it, I can't wait, it's going to be a fantastic event. And as we said about the run in particular, you finish in Surfers Paradise, in the heart of Surfers — it's going to be an incredible event. And rest assured, we know the mob behind T100 here on the Gold Coast — not the same mob that ran the Dubai one. This is the event company who literally run the Gold Coast Marathon, they're very, very versed in this. Hey, you're talking about finishing in Surfers Paradise

[12:51] during schoolies — always a fun time for the rest of us. You brought this up, I know what you're about to say. Don't you go to schoolies just to get blind drunk? This is the new generation. Where did you hear this? We talked about it on the radio show — the schoolies run clubs. I can see I listen to your radio show, you got caught out! On the Gold Coast this year, the schoolies celebrations are said to be essentially bookended by

[13:22] run clubs. This is fantastic — it's a new world. I cared about it — schoolies was definitely not about running when I was a professional athlete at schoolies, I didn't care about running, and still — but this is where I think it's a really smart pivot by the people who run schoolies. Schoolies on the Gold Coast has the Schoolies Hub, a dedicated drug-free, alcohol-free zone. That's how it was set up, that was the purpose.

[13:53] Now whether people abide by that is up to them — all that does is make sure they get absolutely chuffed before they get in there. But I like that they've set up this area for kids, because I think the drinking culture in this country is shifting. I agree, certainly not what it once was. That doesn't mean — and I'm not saying to anybody out there that this has gone mad, it hasn't, you can still have all the beers you want — I just feel like there's a shift in society, there's never been more non-alcoholic drinks.

[14:23] People have never felt freer, I think, to talk about the fact that they don't drink. If people weren't drinkers previously they'd kind of be kept quiet — I feel like it's spoken about more openly now. The organisers of schoolies have leaned into the fitness side of it, it's great, going for the run clubs. Festivals are doing it too, so why not schoolies — festivals now do the thing where you're out all night, sleep in your tent, get up in the morning and do your yoga.

[14:54] But I haven't heard run clubs at festivals. Look at Travis Barker and what they're doing at the moment — did you see the last run he did? I'll try and bring the story up. For those who don't know Travis Barker, the drummer of Blink-182, however you decide to say the numbers — he's in the Jelly Roll vein, one of these people, along with the fella from The Offspring who's obsessed with triathlon, who's caught the running bug in the biggest way. Travis

[15:27] Barker's run club has 103,000 followers on Instagram and the socials, a massive following, and he had a 5K festival essentially — talk amongst yourselves while I bring it up. How much? How much would you pay? I'm actually interested how much it was to go to his event. The cost to get involved, not quite sure.

[16:00] Parker's run club run event — let's see, on the old — 77 US dollars. So what's that, about 150 Australian? Is it sort of double? Even if we just called it 100, it's a pretty good concert ticket, that's true — and he did perform as part of all this. So look again, that was the run experience — and 54 bucks if you just wanted to go along as a standard entry, not bad, got a lot of people.

[16:34] And this sort of gets back to what we talked about in last week's episode, or the week before — who would drag you along? If there was somebody, a musician, who was then performing post-show — Diplo's another one, another example of somebody combining their passion for music with their love of running. I'll tell you where I'd end up — definitely at Travis's event, I think it's quite my scene. A couple more comments I wanted to get to from last week's episode, because we had the conversation about the On

[17:06] Cloud, the squeaky shoes. Jared jumped on and said, fellas, I've run a lot of my kilometres in the On Cloudmonster and the Cloudboom Strike. So he's an On man — the Cloudmonster squeaks an embarrassing amount, but nothing a good pair of AirPods hasn't fixed. Well, for him, not for him, but I respect that — I think you just deal with it, that was the agreement, right, deal with it. Once shoes get wet, that's a

[17:36] whole different story — once you get wet, a whole range of shoes squeak. Lee — for those who listened last week — Lee, the older fella who was looking to get into trail running for the first time. Bigger unit, just wanted to say Lee responded and said thanks legends, running in a few different Puma shoes, will definitely hit Wild Earth up for some professional advice on shoes and hit the trails ASAP. Thank you again, keep up the amazing work. Lee throwing out some love there off the back of the other week when he was asking

[18:06] for some entry into the trail running world. And then what else did we have — oh, crowns. We had someone asking who that is, right — and he's found that Walk of Fame, we've never seen it, at Noosa — I've never seen it either — but my name's in one of those stones somewhere for the Noosa Walk of Fame, of course it is, he said. All those crown hunters out there, have a crack

[18:37] at this one, going and trying to beat you across that. Hey, speaking of Noosa — the day of recording, you and I, it's rego day, right? It's reopened, and I am — proud to say I'm back in. You're back in, I've registered — this will be Noosa Triathlon number 11, so I'm locked in. What do you reckon a Noosa entry costs these days, out of curiosity? I haven't looked, but I'm going to take a stab at this, just a standard

[19:11] individual entry — I reckon I'm going to say $456. That's very good, Courtney Atkinson, it's $455. I wasn't joking, I hadn't seen it. Then you pay an extra 22 if you're not a member of a triathlon club, you pay 22 more. I'm true. Now the reason I said that is I won't mention the event, but I went to enter a running event and I nearly fell off my chair, because it was 460 bucks. Let's have a conversation about

[19:41] that. $460, and I was like — and I'm going to be really transparent here — I did not enter, and they're running out of entries, and I made the decision not to enter. Reason being, this event was five months away and I already know there's a chance I need to be overseas either the week of or the week leading into it. We've got another few events around it, and I just thought I can't. If it was 100 bucks or under, I'd just go, oh, if I get there, I get there, if I don't, I don't.

[20:11] But at that price point I was like, nah. Let's talk about where all this is at with fitness and entries and all the rest of it, because we know the popularity of running in particular — it's never been more popular, never been more difficult to get an entry into any of these major races. But the cost factor involved — do you think running should be something the government is subsidising? Oh, that's a bloody good

[20:43] question. Do you think run events, because of the health benefit, the economic benefit to the community wherever they're held — do you think it's something local, federal, council, state, whatever it is, should back? If they wanted to put money into fitness somewhere, I think running out of all of them is the obvious one. I mean, you'd get other sports going, well, why can't you back triathlon, why can't you back fitness racing, why can't you back — so on. And to an extent some of them would

[21:14] have some government intervention — a lot of our marathons, a lot of our triathlons are all government-backed from a tourism perspective, from a health perspective, I guess. More to the point of, keeping — because you could argue that certain events are now inaccessible to certain people because of their cost. Agreed — if you're somebody living below a certain income level, you might not be able to afford to compete in these things. Now, there's nothing stopping

[21:44] you going out there and running that distance, over that course, at any other time or in any other way — that's the great thing about running, it's fundamentally free. But what's beautiful about where running's headed is it's becoming this global community, and run clubs are free, running by yourself is free. But should the government be taking some responsibility, at whatever level, to make sure everyone gets the opportunity to enjoy these

[22:15] competitive environments, these experiences? While the main events are selling out — not just selling out, oversubscribed — I just can't see how you can make it fair. How do you make it fair, because you could withhold a certain amount of entries for certain groups, but where do you draw the line?

[22:46] I think it's just, for me, when you say $500 for an entry, that stuns me, that makes me go, jeez. And I think — well, I've just got this, it's festival status, isn't it, that's what's happened. Yeah, actually that's the perfect comparison — we talked earlier about schoolies and having a run club — what would you pay to go to a festival, then? Look, we just talked about it — so what happens is it's

[23:20] free market. The events with heaps of FOMO are expensive and hard to get into because there's demand, there's short supply and large demand at the moment. That will change eventually. But what's happening at the same time is you're seeing these community-led events — like Travis Barker, like I saw a run club out of Brisbane the other day putting on an event, and I know they'll easily get 500 people rock up just because of their community.

[23:51] They're filling that void, so there's always going to be something for someone out there. And to that point — parkrun. That's exactly where I was going to go with that. I wonder — is there an opportunity for parkrun, I've said it before, one of the greatest inventions of the last however many decades, to incorporate a competitive element on a certain day each year, like a parkrun

[24:21] race day, once or twice a year, I don't know. I suppose it goes against their whole ethos. It does, yeah, everyone's got their own thoughts on that. Beautiful, there's never — I want to talk about, the reason I asked about government intervention with running and the cost of this stuff, is there has been some government intervention around running in a different country. Korea — tell me what you think of this. Shinhan Bank's 6.6% runner savings, with a Sydney Marathon

[24:52] chance thrown in. Samsung and Carrot have launched running-linked financial products, including insurance and marathon prizes. Shinhan Bank, in Korea, has seized on the running popularity and is offering a specific interest rate account to runners, that includes the opportunity to win entries into the Sydney Marathon. Maybe they're thinking runners are healthier, live longer, can pay off their mortgage. The Shinhan Run service

[25:22] combines running and financial benefits — customers earn points based on cumulative distance recorded when running at least one kilometre a day. A dedicated running savings account has also been launched for subscribers, offering a base annual interest rate of 1.8%, with preferential rates adding up to 4.8 percentage points. But basically these are companies well outside the running industry that have gone and tailored bank account offerings to runners.

[25:54] Would you sign up for one? Well, yeah, if I was looking for a mortgage — isn't that great motivation, actually, it's savings. Oh, OK, it's great motivation though, because look at this: runners must run a cumulative distance of over 100 kilometres across 10 sessions during the mission period, each session requiring at least 2 kilometres, with an average pace of under 10 minutes per K. Oh, it's a good

[26:24] thing, and it's making people healthy, but it's no different — it's just because running's trending. I bet if you went back two years, that same bank was running a similar promotion for, hey, if you bought six-packs of their bloody vodka or whatever. OK, well let me ask you this then — if your current mortgage, let's say hypothetically, is with Westpac, and Commonwealth Bank comes out and says, hey Courtney, think you'd be interested in the new

[26:55] Runners Plus mortgage — gives you a full percentage less on your interest, requires you to run 100 K's a week — would you take that? That's steep. Well, I'm trying to find — I'm trying to find the zone. I wouldn't be able to take it, because I can't run. What if it was 50K's a week? You're asking the wrong — I'm so lazy, Liam, I'd go to my bank and say, can you match this, and I won't

[27:27] run any. I wonder what the tipping point is for most people, to get them to change their mortgage or whatever interest they're copying. I'm sure in order to achieve that they're just marketing to runners, aren't they — look at it, I love it, I love it, look at us, come on. I'd love it if my phone provider, my energy provider, whoever — half-baked idea, are you going to go to your energy provider? OK, half-baked idea —

[27:59] give something back on your energy supply if we find a way to match your energy output in any given run, get that off your electricity bill. How many watts, I don't know, I don't know the science, Courtney, you know how these ideas work — I think of them and then someone else pays. I'm all for that, anything to save a bit of electricity. What about that — let's go to Origin Energy or whoever and say, hey, run a deal where

[28:30] people can show their energy output and get it off their bill. Do you know what the problem is instantly, and this is what's wrong with the world — because already someone's listened to this and started thinking about ways to hack the system, going, I'll put my Garmin on my dog and send the dog to the park and throw the ball around. Yeah, that's — hey, look, if running is getting deals that's all well and good, but here's one for you — off the back of that, Strava, because I opened it up, I had a run this

[29:03] morning, uploaded my run, wasn't that impressive by the way, but uploaded to Strava and got spammed with — I think it was Weet-Bix, a breakfast cereal doing an activation, and the activation was 10 days exercise in a row and you can win one of $250 vouchers. Yep, that was the point this

[29:34] morning where I went, Strava activations are cooked. Oh, you think it's done, you think they've jumped the shark? Well, for me, I saw it at that point and thought, this is cooked now, because you get to a saturation point where I'm just flicking through them, I can't even remember the brand — there you go, but that's how society does this. I can't even remember the brand, and it annoyed me — it wasn't even a brand that made me go, oh, this is

[30:06] interesting, it was more like, I should remember the brand because I was half pissed off about it, going, I don't want to see this. What's the — how many days can you get, Up&Go? That might have been the challenge I'm just looking through, in the suggested challenges — there's an Adidas 15-day challenge, a virtual NYRR run challenge, a books challenge, a running challenge. So my question is, out of all that you just read, what actually resonates with you, or are you just — yep, yep, yep,

[30:37] yep — it's the gamified element of Strava, right, you join these challenges. How many people, I want to know how many people actually — well I can tell you the numbers, it gives you the data, I don't know how many join, you seven — 1,000 athletes have joined. But you just press join, right — but how many follow through on that journey of going, oh look, I've done eight days because of Up&Go, or is it just circumstantial? So I'd say it's circumstantial, not to generalise, but that's exactly what I'm doing — I don't think runners' mindsets

[31:10] are incentivised by pricing — I don't think, generalising, there's got to be a threshold, there's always a threshold, if you put a house up for grabs, watch me hit the streets. But if it was a smaller prize that incentivises a certain group — but if you're just a jogger — and this is my point, we shouldn't call — well, we don't call joggers that, but I know what you mean, your average versus your elite runners. And this is, I think, Strava — we've talked a lot about the app.

[31:42] I'm an unashamed fan, when it goes public I'll be buying shares because I think it's awesome. But I don't think it's anywhere near what it will become. I don't think they know how to utilise this incredible membership base they've got, I don't think they know how to incentivise them, I don't think they know how to reward them. All I think, fundamentally, at its core right now, is it's succeeding because running is

[32:13] experiencing this massive growth and people want to monitor their running. I don't want to be cynical, but I am going to be — there's only one way it can go, and that's to advertise more, advertising, and to become more of a social platform. So at the moment there's a push around verified users and becoming more Instagrammy. I suppose it will take time, but there's no other direction it can go, because you just can't let it sit there in the way that

[32:46] everyone loves it. I agree, in a perfect world you would — I agree with what you're saying, that ads are inevitable and more ads are inevitable. But what I probably mean is I don't think they've actually figured out the tech side of the platform and how it can best serve runners. I don't know what that looks like, but it just means whatever version of Strava we have in 12 months' time won't be what it is currently —

[33:16] just with more ads. I think there'll be a lot more to it, I'm hoping there'll be a lot more meat on the bones, a lot more offerings, and that as a runner I'll be able to get a lot more out of Strava than what I get right now. So I disagree — my prediction is there'll be little bells and whistles that slowly get integrated, maybe slightly better, but I believe it will just start morphing towards more of a social platform and lose the essence of what it was originally for. But what makes me think is what an amazing place

[33:48] it would have been if — I mean, in the end, a business is a business, it's going to need growth and more money, of course, but think if they'd gone down — because to me Strava has provided the everyday person a training-peaks style, an easier application for what professionals, like Benita when she's training, use Training Peaks for. If Strava gives up on everyone every day, I would have loved to have just seen it keep innovating but keep

[34:18] it as it is for the runner, for the rider, for the exerciser, give you more tools. And if that made the premium increase, I'd be fine with that. But I don't want — I would rather see the premium increase and keep it that way than see the premium stay the same and make the money by putting ads and making it more social. But hey, that's just me. Interesting, interesting — look, we will remain on Strava watch here on the podcast,

[34:50] Because it's the main app of everything we talk about, so any developments there — I'd be fascinated to know people's opinions of it. People who listen to the pod, what do you think of Strava, how do you use Strava, is there something you'd love about it that you hope never changes, is there something you can't stand about it? I'd be fascinated to get people's thoughts on Strava as a platform, particularly if you're new to running or you've been doing it for a while — yeah, 100%, be fascinated to get.

[35:20] people's — hey, you know, want to give a shout out to Ethan Davey, he wrote in, got onto us through the Road to Noosa programming but has now gone back to the beginning and is doing all the catch-up, OK, we killed the WTF — oh no, the What The F episode — oh yeah, we did kill that, we killed it — because he's listening back at the beginning, he's like, I know you've killed it, but I've got one for you. Now, this one

[35:51] I was like, OK, we'll share it — a marathon run, ballroom dancing the whole way. Did you see this? No, Ethan, this is why we killed it. And thank you, Ethan, for reminding us why we killed it — because people have too much time on their hands. Don't ballroom dance a marathon, go and run it, run it or ballroom dance it, or ballroom dance — we don't need to merge these things, it's unnecessary.

[36:23] No, I couldn't. Could you think of anything worse than having to hold someone's hand for 42Ks? Now imagine spinning around — nah, that one can get stuffed. We appreciate everyone writing in, we keep trying to catch up on all of it. I teased this last week, I think it's time — just drop it, I've had enough of the teasing. Enough of the teasing, let's just talk about it. Courtney Atkinson, in 2026

[36:54] I'm running the 100 Miler at UTA. Oh, that's a big call, Liam, I'm in — I'm registered, I'm in, I'm locked in. Not to race, but to run 160K. Do you have any idea what you've got yourself into? No, well, I mean, I've seen the numbers — you know, the short change when I said just go and run kunanyi, that was, what, 26K? Yeah, I am signed up to

[37:28] participate in May next year — this is the second time they've had the miler. A hundred of the most beautiful and awe-inspiring miles you will ever run. The UTA Miler is a mix of trails that showcase the best of the Blue Mountains National Park, taking you along clifftops, through lush valleys, across scenic ridges, and up the famous 951 Furber Steps towards the finish line at Scenic World. I can guarantee you, everything you just said there —

[37:58] you're not going to give one shit about while you're running, you're going to be in a world of pain. I am — a world of pain, sleep deprivation, sore legs, you're not going to want to see a stair for the rest of your life. 161.5 kilometres, elevation gain of 7,290 metres, max allowed race time is 44 hours. 44 hours, two days.

[38:29] Hey, look, I'm stoked for you, it's great to have a goal. The best way to do it is to stand up and do it. Yeah, but I know we're going to have listeners going, oh, Liam — so prepare yourself, people, because I am now that guy, that guy who's going to be living in the trails talking about nothing but trails. Let me talk people through my thinking around this a little bit. Please do, because I think a lot of people

[38:59] out there will sympathise and empathise with the idea that as you get older but want to maintain your fitness, the easiest thing to do is pick a race, pick an event, pick something to train for. This year, 2025, will finish up with me having done kunanyi as the only race — my body wasn't right for the marathon, Noosa couldn't work out from a social perspective, and I didn't race, I didn't run, I

[39:30] didn't. And look, I haven't not trained, but I certainly haven't trained with purpose or intent. UTA — I've done the 50K race twice before, and I cried after I finished the first one. I loved the second one because I achieved my time goal, really enjoyed the atmosphere up there in the Blue Mountains. For UTA, I do think, if you want to run a trail, that's the granddaddy, the grand final of trail running in Australia. But the big motivation for me — a couple of motivations — the first, my best mate's running it, and I've talked about it on this

[40:03] podcast before — he's the guy I competed in Red Bull Defiance with, and I still put that down as one of the best athletic experiences I've ever had. So do you plan to do it together? I'll be interested to get your thoughts, because I don't think so — I think Ed's doing it and I want to do it because I want us both to have the memory and the experience of it at the same time, so we can share our experiences after the fact. That was motivation one — my

[40:33] best mate doing it. Motivation two is that in my head, the way my brain works, I still think I will have an Ironman in my future, I still think I'll have a sub-three-hour marathon in my future — I still have all these athletic things I want to achieve, and the 100 Miler is on there. So what am I waiting for? I've figured out I'm never going to

[41:05] wake up one morning and go, yep, I'm fit enough to run 100 miles now — that's never going to happen. Just rip the band-aid off and go for it. So why wouldn't I just jump in, which is literally what I've done. So where do you start? Well, I'll tell you where I'm starting — with the base. I am back in the gym regularly right now, working not on conditioning but really diligently on legs. I'm building the base —

[41:38] squatting, calf raising, lunging — it's all about belly-button-down for me right now, working really hard on making sure these legs are going to be rock hard come UTA next year. So my next question is, how far do you think you'd need to run in a week to prepare for this, at some stage, and this goes back to one of the

[42:09] most viral moments we've had on this podcast — it's not about distance, it's about time. My expectation is that I'll need to be doing some six-to-eight-hour shifts on trails in the lead-up. Agreed, it's not about distance covered, it's about that experience of, OK, guess what, we're going out in the Nerang trails, I'll see you in eight hours. Probably more — where I was heading then is, are you looking to optimise yourself to

[42:44] get out there and go as quick as you can for the 160-odd K's? Are you treating this like a race? Yeah, yeah, yeah, so you want to do the best preparation possible. I actually don't even know who the coach is — Tom Evans's coach, the strength guy we've talked about — and he said, well, as an amateur, this is your background, and I reckon you should be running 180K a week — well, you should be able to build up to 180K. Are you willing to do that? Yeah, I am. Because you wouldn't have the time — well, why not,

[43:16] look, so the reason I asked the question was, if you're truly in that mindset, you need to go and get someone to help you. If your answer back to me was, oh, I'm just going to get around the course, I'll train willingly, whatever, and just get around the course — I'd be like, yeah, well, you're just going to have to manage yourself, and you'll probably be limping by the end of it. But if you're seriously about getting there and

[43:48] trying to achieve and perform, you're going to need help. It's a long way — I'm aware of how far it is, and it's a long way, but you're on the right track straight off the bat about the strength. But it's a long way more, it's not even to do with the running, it's the nutrition and the fuel — just being able to keep your body operational

[44:19] for 24 hours plus. Well, even beyond the 24, just the 164 kilometres, you're going to need help. So I'm sure there's people sitting there listening going — yeah, if anyone's got any thoughts or opinions, Liam, you need help, or you just want to get behind me, feel free to comment, because I feel like I'm going to need it. We'll all be behind you. So just to go back to my motivations, my mate — I've

[44:53] just got one on my list. The other thing is, the moment I pressed go, the moment I ticked it — I'll give you a point of comparison, today, literally today, the day we're recording, I've signed up for Noosa next year. The feeling in my chest when I signed up and pressed go on Noosa was excitement — I'm straight back there in the woods at Hastings Street, back there with all my friends, my wife, everyone who does it, the Legends race, I'm

[45:24] straight back in the moment — this is Christmas Fitness, sorry, this is such a fantastic weekend, I'm already excited about Noosa Triathlon 2026. When I pressed go on the 100 Mile, it was fear — genuine fear, there was no excitement, it was the most nervous. I think probably the last time I had those feelings of uncertainty was when my

[45:56] kids were born — that level of uncertainty. And that's good, that's what you want, that's what I want, and that's what this has given me. I haven't even done the thing yet, but just by signing up for it, something in me's gone — that nervous system, that biological part of me, has gone, shit. Do you reckon that's what drives it — because there's a lot of people wanting to do these extreme things, but I'd argue a lot of the time

[46:26] they just want to do them. Do you think that's maybe why everyone's trying to push the envelope so far — because it takes something really, really out there to get your shit properly scared. It's a real — I'm scared of this. Our world has never been more safe — the products we use, the cars we drive, everything's guarded against accidents. Because even if we said three to five hours for a marathon, if you walk it, jog, walk, jog, walk,

[46:59] jog, walk — there's a safety element there, right, it's achievable for everyone. You say 160K, that's talking a different ball game. Don't get me wrong, running a marathon hard is a whole different battle, but I'm saying there's a safety element in that I can work my way through three to five hours. For me — I can't speak on behalf of everyone — for me, this has again sparked something inside me, not of

[47:33] excitement, but of genuine fear and nerves — not anxiety in the negative way we hear about in everyone's lives, but that seriousness of, you've got to get ready, you've got to get ready for this in the most serious way possible, because this is something you've never done before, your body's never experienced before. I've felt it on the UTA 50s a couple of times, Red Bull Defiance, talked about it before — I remember that feeling lying in bed after day one, that

[48:05] feeling of exhaustion, that feeling of genuine fatigue — not the end of a hard training session, I'm knackered, but that I don't know where I'm going to find the energy to keep going, or to get up in the morning for day two of this thing. That feeling, I think, is what's got me — knowing I've had a small taste of that feeling before, and knowing I'm going to have stretches of that feeling, is what's got me up and about for this thing. Well, I reckon, if

[48:35] you're committed, mate, we're going to have to come and document this. Yeah, all right — we've got some nighttime adventures in Nerang coming. Have you got a training buddy? That's probably the next step too — it would be helpful, I think, in this situation, to have someone else on the Goldie, because it's all well and good, Ed, but he's in Sydney. To have someone at least going to the same event, or at least training for something similar, in the first six months of next

[49:05] year — reach out, because if you're on the Gold Coast, or even coming through the Gold Coast, I would love to spend some time on a trail with someone doing a similar sort of preparation. I'm excited, for all the wrong reasons too — so yeah, I'm going to be a Miler next year, Courtney, I'm going to join the club. I'm genuinely pumped. That'd be a pretty exclusive club, Liam, it's a good one to aim for.

[49:35] And then this is the other thing — I'm also glad we're kind of leaning back into trail a little bit, let's get back on the trails. The thing I'd say as well — not to get woo-woo on you, Courtney, but if you want things you've got to go after things. Ed and I have the dream — for those who don't understand how the trail running world works, all the major events, you can't just

[50:05] get a spot, you have to earn your way into them. Ed and I do have the dream that we'll get enough running stones for completing the 100 Miler at UTA — you need a certain number of running stones to put your name in the lottery for UTMB, which is the grand final of trail running, held in Chamonix, France. And now I've got the dream that we run the Miler next year, put the stones in, and who knows. So you've

[50:36] done your homework — although I hadn't, because I signed up for the Miler and do you know what I actually need to find, quite seriously, in the next couple of months? A 50K-plus race, because I have to have completed a 50K race within two years of racing the Miler. So if anyone's got a 50K race somewhere in the next couple of months they'd recommend, oh, there'll be lots.

[51:07] But if someone's got one they'd recommend — or again, if anyone's running one they think I should come along to, like Noosa Ultras, or if there's something they'd recommend — when's the deadline? I have to have raced it by March, I think. So I've got time, but I do have to go and tick it off, otherwise — all those trail events are early in the year. I don't think they are, no, I'll find some, otherwise I'll be flying to

[51:38] America, or this might be a bit more expensive than I thought. Craig Hayden and the crew at UTA, please let me race. Anyway, I'm in the Miler. No, you're gonna have to go and tick the box. I have to tick the box, I'm gonna find a 50K race, don't worry about that, I will find something. So that's where my running's at. Geez, that's a big update. And should we — while we're talking, Courtney, we should give a massive shout-out to everybody heading to Kosciuszko in a week or so. It won't be too far away, is it?

[52:08] Yep. Have you heard from Rosie? He's travelling, I haven't seen him in a few weeks, I heard someone say they saw him running the other day. Literally just got a text message from him — if you haven't run yet, I'm going to head to Nerang around 4:30pm, mate, for my last lot of trails, just an easy 90 minutes max. All that, no excuses, Liam. Actually, there's my training partner Rosie — what do you reckon, can you rope him in? Is he doing that? To my life, he's doing the 100K race at Kosciuszko. So good luck, Rosie. Obviously the next step. I went to his 50th.

[52:40] Actually, I went to his 50th, and do you know who — I didn't get invited. Didn't he get invited? Oh no, jeez, don't you hate it? Big conversation with your mate Ken Wallace. Yep, what about? Just about everything, life, athletics, the Olympics, everything — had a great conversation. You were telling me about his trips to Switzerland — yes, it's part of his responsibilities with the AOC. He did — I'm sure he won't mind me telling this story, but he told me a very funny story about sitting at a desk in Switzerland, at a group event, and on his table there were five of them.

[53:11] And it was Lord Sebastian Coe, who ran the London Olympics, the fellow who'd been in charge of the Paris Olympics, the CEO of the USA Olympic Committee, and someone else on that same level. And Ken was sitting there going, hi, I'm Ken — but he was sitting at the big-boy table, I'm sure he holds his own. He's sitting at the big-boy table — medals, and he'd be fine. He's got some — that's a ticket to entry over there. You've got to slot your medal into the machine as you walk in the

[53:43] building. You do not — you had me there for a second. Do you know, I didn't realise, but he's the perennial champion of his event because they don't hold it anymore — so forever. What was the distance he won his gold medal over? I'm going to say — I'm going to say 1,000. Ken Wallace won two medals, in the K1 500. No — K1 500, sorry, K1 500. And then they

[54:14] brought it back to a 500, for sure they did, because he reckons no one's won the medal since him. But you said — was it the 500 he won? Yeah, K1 500, they haven't had it since, so he was the last winner of that event. Yeah, I would have put my money on 1,000. Anyway, Ken — we had a bit of a chat about Brisbane, we were talking about pitching in on Michael Shelley's marathon course. He's like, oh yeah, it's got to be at the Olympic city — and it got me all Olympic-excited again. Excellent, very, very exciting

[54:45] stuff. Well, what have you been doing? Been busy, mate — I've been, funnily enough, around the Brisbane Olympics Organising Committee in the last week, back on the tools a little bit, doing some filming and getting stuff ready. It's interesting, it's a long way away, but also so close, just around the corner. But what blows my mind every time I get involved in a certain way is, we were interviewing

[55:18] some kids — your eight, nine, ten year-olds, especially in the action sports, skating, BMX and all of that — it's the eight and ten year-olds now who are going to be our Olympic gold medallists. It's still long enough away that someone competing at the top level now — seven years is an eternity in sport. It's very easy to think, just because it's a home Olympics, we're looking at the guys and girls racing

[55:48] right now on the world stage going, oh, Brisbane, bring it home — but no, that's not the case, we've still got a whole Olympic Games between now and then, correct. We've got a full Olympic cycle. And it was actually Ken making the point, as we were talking about all this stuff — people talk about training all their lives to become an Olympian, and as he — I think he made the point, we'd had a few drinks by this point, I might be adjusting the story a little — but as he said, you don't actually train your whole life to become an Olympian, you train at your sport.

[56:19] And when that Olympic cycle window opens up, if you're close enough to the pointy end, that's when you start training for the Olympics. In the time leading up you're just training for your sport, year by year — if you're a triathlete or a swimmer or whatever, you train for your sport, and once you hit that four-year window, that's when you start training for the Olympics. And then when you're in the cycle, it never stops, right up to that point.

[56:50] Right up to that point. Yeah, definitely a thing — but the key is they're so young, we have no idea who's going to be there, which is incredible. So if you're a parent out there of a seven, eight or nine year-old — who knows. What would be amazing is if these kids we're talking to now end up — there's a lot of water to go under the bridge, but if they do end up making it, we've got all this footage of what they're saying as young eight-to-

[57:21] ten year-olds. That's the incredible part — for all the bad that comes with everybody having a phone and a camera, the storytelling ability we have now, because of technology, means that come the Olympics in 2032 and everything around it, we should be able to tell the most amazing stories, because essentially everyone's life is documented to some extent, for good or bad. But in Brisbane 2032, if an unknown turns up, I'll be

[57:55] surprised. What do you reckon storytelling — I mean AI is accelerating so fast — what does storytelling look like at the Brisbane Olympics in seven years? Just in the past six months you can literally create a video, type in some words, get a video. You can't AI sport, you can't physically go and do the sport — I think the Brisbane Olympics will be too early, but it wouldn't surprise me if gaming and AI-

[58:30] generated content becomes part of it — there's already film clips for songs, artists, a country music artist who's been making — talking about kids as young as seven. So what does that look like, how would the games even be portrayed, how do you even watch them? All of those questions — seven years is a long time,

[59:00] a long time, and AI — I'm not going to pretend I know what's going to happen. I think storytelling, from a media and narrative perspective, needs a perspective — I think to tell good stories, particularly around sport, you need an opinion. The true documentary that just tells the facts probably doesn't get made anymore, because it's all about having a lens and an opinion on a particular story. I think the best storytelling takes an interesting story with a lens on it. So can AI develop that lens

[59:32] about these kids heading towards 2032? Maybe, maybe it can by then. But I'd say, what you've been doing this last week — I'm really excited that some of the work you're doing, you've already got a lens on it, a lens towards the future. So you start to capture this with a certain story or narrative in mind, about potentially one of these young athletes you're talking to maybe walking out at the new stadium in Brisbane in 2032 as

[01:00:02] part of the Australian Olympic team. And when you put that lens through whatever happens over the next six or seven years — yeah, that's something I'd watch. Just sitting here thinking about how we'll be watching the Olympics, how those stories will be told — will you physically be sitting in the Australian rowing boat with the team?

[01:00:32] I'm not joking, no, no, no — and I'm laughing at the idea of it. I mean, they could do this now, why couldn't you have a camera — the only reason I ask is I was on the Brisbane River last Friday, 5am, watching all the boats train, and it's amazing to see, I love that time of morning. All the kids are out doing their thing, some of the boats with older crews out there just for fitness. I was particularly focused on one of the coxes in one of the eights — a young girl was just sitting

[01:01:05] in there, but once she started actually going through her instructions, she turned into the leader of them all. And all I could think was, imagine, in a race, you're watching the Olympics and you're like, I'm going for Australia — bang, you touch the tab, and now you're sitting in the Australian boat for the race. That's where I believe it will be — you could, I mean, think of the fencing, I'm watching the fencing,

[01:01:35] I'm not watching it anymore, I'm literally — bang — I'm the Australian fencer. I'm not doing it, but I'm in the shoes of being at the Olympics. That's a conviction — we're here now, so let's jump into it, this is going to be a bit of a longer episode, because just because you can doesn't mean you should, and doesn't mean it's good. Let me give you an example — State of Origin rugby league coverage right now, when they cross to the coaches' box in the middle of the game,

[01:02:07] they can do that, they have the technology, the access, the ability to. I don't think it's good, I don't think it adds to the coverage, I don't think it's better for the viewer to be able to talk to a coach mid-game whose attention is clearly elsewhere. I agree with you, they shouldn't be interrupting the coach — but what happens if you could sit next to the coach while he's coaching, without impeding any of the sport, not doing anything, and instead of

[01:02:39] watching the game unfold in front of you, you're in his perspective, in the shoes of the coach, you can hear him next to you, watching from his box. That idea I like better. That idea I like better now — it's pretty much what every Netflix show is built on at the moment, Drive to Survive and everything, putting you in the shoes so you can see the inside. But what happens instead of you looking into the inside, you are the inside — you're looking out.

[01:03:13] You're looking out, you're one of them, you're part of the team. But fundamentally you're still sitting at home on your couch. Yes, but think — you're OK, I just went to F1, you're now, you choose, I am now one of the pit crew, the cars coming into the pits — look, all this stuff you're talking about, I want them to try it, because the only way we learn what works is by trying this

[01:03:46] stuff. I can tell you that for me, the coach interviews in State of Origin, I don't enjoy, and I don't think most people do either, because I've seen them try it. Now, should they try just putting a camera in the box, or giving someone the perspective of an assistant coach's seat in State of Origin? Maybe, let's try it, I don't know if it'll work. Take that fencing example — if you put a camera on that

[01:04:17] helmet and get the first-person perspective of a fencer, good for a moment, but if I'm genuinely watching the fencing to watch the sport, that's a terrible view — that's a bad perspective to have, because you can't actually see and witness what's happening. So yes, try it, throw cameras everywhere, let's see — they should be doing that, an in-boat camera, or a helmet

[01:04:50] cam. But I'm thinking in seven years it won't — I'm assuming the technology will go so quick it won't even be a camera, it'll be like, what you see will be able to be portrayed out into the world. Because from a storytelling perspective, to bring it back round — we could sit here all day and talk about this — if we go back to the 100 metres as the pre-eminent event of any Olympics, imagine if the technology allows you to

[01:05:23] experience that race in a racer's position. But I don't think anyone's going to want to watch the final that way. I do, I want to watch it from — who's going to win? Gout Gout's in a position to win the Olympics. Sure, you give me the option that I can watch the final, the Olympic final of the 100, not knowing the outcome, live it as it happens — you want to be him. I'm going so far

[01:05:56] in his lane, I want to be him. Just as you could stick a GoPro on someone's head at the moment, which obviously you're not going to do — no, of course, the technology will be there that you can just be him. Assuming the technology is there, I still don't want to be — I don't want my viewing experience to be Gout Gout's viewing experience. I want to watch the final, I want to watch the lanes, I want to hear whoever's

[01:06:28] calling it — maybe it's Liam Flanagan calling — but I want to hear whoever it is. In fact that's the view I want, I want the commentator's view, I want to hear and see the scope of the race. I want to see when he peeks out of the corner of his eye to the young guy from Townsville — what if you come at that moment? Well then I see the race in front of me and I'm getting it, it doesn't matter, I just think the immersive experience we're going to have in seven years, with how quick technology's going, it's going to blow our minds.

[01:06:58] What are our plans, you and I, for seven years' time — because I feel like we need to be forecasting, moving forward, looking ahead. Do we need a house, what are we — how are we planning for Brisbane? Well, I just think we need to get these things organised early, Courtney. Well, I'm just saying you can sit on the couch and be in the whole Olympics, you can actually be racing, that's what I'm saying. No, I'll be off running

[01:07:28] 100 miles for fun by then. All right, hey, look, a bit of a different one for you today — reminding everybody, we keep meaning to do this at the top and keep forgetting, subscribe, subscribe, we love the support that's going on at the moment. As Courtney mentioned earlier, there are things in the pipeline, we're trying to get through all those things, we've got some stuff planned, but we want to thank you all for supporting the pod — share it if you're into trails, get this to your friends, because we are going to lean into some trail stuff over the next couple of weeks. You're going to become our resident trail

[01:07:59] guide — I'm going to handball it. Liam the Mountain Goat Flanagan is what they're calling me in the trail community. All right, enjoy, subscribe, like, comment, we'll see you next week. See you next week.