EP 37 - SPOT A NEPO BABY, WIN A POLAR WATCH & LIGHT A CIGGY

[00:00] In the Beginning Episode 37, Courtney, we are starting with a bang today. What is it? We are starting with something we've never done before. We're doing a giveaway. Yeah, we are doing. We and the brilliant people at Polar are doing a giveaway for the In the Beginning podcast family. Now you explain what we've got here. So if you go back to that Gold Coast Marathon series episode with Polar, yep, we were talking a lot about the H10 heart rate strap, but beyond that, they've actually thrown as

[00:33] one of their heart rate monitors as well. So it's a Polar Pacer GPS running watch and the heart rate monitor together. Anyone running the marathon for the first time? Anyone running at all? Pretty good little gig. So this is — and this is not a pretty good little gig, this is awesome — because anybody out there, Courtney's calling it a heart rate monitor, I'm going to call it what it is. It's a watch. It's a running watch. That's what the average human knows it as, Courtney. It's a GPS running watch. And this is top of the line stuff. So we have got one of Polar's

[01:04] brilliant running watches, one of their chest heart rate monitors. If you win this, you are set for your running journey the next 12 months. You will never have more fun, especially if right now you're just running with no running watch, you're just using a Casio or you're just using Strava on your phone. What do I have to do? So here's what you need to do. You need to subscribe to the In the Beginning podcast and then you need to leave a review. Yes. So we're going to, we're going

[01:36] to open up this for two weeks. We're going to run this comp for the next two weeks. So starting today and closing in two weeks' time, you have a two week window to subscribe and leave us a review. Give us a rating, leave us a review. If you're already subscribed, just go leave a review. If you're not subscribed, subscribe, then leave a review. If you've already subscribed or you've already left a review, leave us another review, right? That's what you've got — two week window.

[02:06] Someone after these two weeks is going to walk away with one of these amazing Polar watches and a chest heart rate monitor. Thanks to the crew at Polar. Beautiful. All right, we've got lots of running to talk about, but quickly, can I just dip my toe into the world of AFL to start the pod today? I wish I couldn't stop you. Well, I know, you know, our Gold Coast Suns are going so well and they're being attacked. They're being attacked. I want to get to this very quickly off the top — if you're not an AFL fan, stay with us, because there's something in this for all sport.

[02:36] You didn't see it last weekend — Ross Lyon, coach of St Kilda, came out pre-game and referred to the Gold Coast Suns as the AFL's nepo baby. If you don't know what that means, there's a term in Hollywood about nepo babies, which are the sons and daughters, the kids of stars who are then given what is viewed as an armchair ride into the industry. So LeBron James's son Bronny James, some would argue, is a nepo baby because whilst his son, yes, is a good basketball player, there's a lot of people

[03:08] that say he is not good enough to be in the NBA. And because he's LeBron James's son — if his name had been Bronny Atkinson, he probably doesn't get drafted. F1, I mean, talk about family ties. That's right. So Ross Lyon has come out and called the Gold Coast Suns the AFL's nepo baby. I don't want to — this is the Saints coach, remember, so we don't need to split hairs about the fact that that would infer the AFL is a successful footy club, it's not — but the point is, I love it.

[03:41] I loved it. Why? Too often coaches are hesitant, particularly in the AFL — I think the NRL coaches are much more likely to speak their opinion and just cop a fine. I think the AFL has created an environment where you can't say anything without copping a fine, and as a result I think some of that off-field stuff has become boring. And the AFL, like any sport, is entertainment first. It's a business and it's entertainment and we choose to

[04:12] watch it to occupy our time. It's like Netflix, it's like YouTube — it's entertainment. And I think Ross Lyon coming out like that, he had not thought about that off the cuff. That is not something that just popped into his head. He had prepared to say this. I think their club president's been complaining about the concessions given to other clubs, and he's backing up his president, right? OK, so it's kind of like making sure — while we're not going great on the field, hey Prez, I've got your back, can you give me a contract extension?

[04:42] He thought about this, he prepared it, and he dropped it in the pregame. Brilliant — oh, this was pre — I didn't realise it was pregame — he dropped it in the pregame interview, right. Then the game's gone out and been played, and the nepo babies have defeated his St Kilda team. And then Damien Hardwick, which I appreciate as well, when asked in the post-game interview, has reacted as though he hadn't heard the comment. Right — nepo, what do you — nepo babies, isn't that interesting? Now, if that's the first time you've heard that comment, you

[05:13] are not as prepared as Damien Hardwick was with your rebuttal. Damien Hardwick nailed Ross Lyon with his rebuttal. He came out and said, I think that's a bit unfair — I've played for Richmond, I know how little the Gold Coast Suns get, and I think St Kilda should just look after their own backyard — we only had 13,000 people here today. That's two great shots fired off the dome. He knew it had been said, he'd been briefed, the media team's done their job, he's prepared his rebuttal beautifully. And I loved all of it. I loved all of it.

[05:44] And you look at it from the perspective now — I'll put my Gold Coast Suns hat on for a moment — the Gold Coast Suns are suddenly making back-page news in Melbourne off the back of this story, which has never happened before, short of when they signed Gary Ablett Junior. So suddenly there's an extra level of interest in this team aside from the fact that they're playing well. I just loved it. I loved the entertainment factor. No one's really getting their nose put out of joint by this — the AFL isn't having to come out and admonish people for what they're saying.

[06:14] I just loved it. I thought it was great sporting theatre. What did you think about the post that went out — the combined post from the Lions and the Suns together going, 'where the one-two' — I think this was a few weeks back when they were one-two on the ladder. How much would this wrap up the southerners? Oh, they'd be hating it. They are hating it. I know — well, it's why the whole concession conversation is coming up, and it's the Brisbane Lions' fault, it's not the Gold Coast Suns. The Brisbane Lions are the reigning premiers in the AFL.

[06:45] And yet with the father-son system, the Ashcroft boys — there's another young fella coming out of the Brisbane Lions system, Jaspa Fletcher, the son of Adrian Fletcher, another father-son who's in their best 22. They've got their academies now — Queensland is an area of growth for AFL, and when you invest time and money into an area of growth, you reap the benefits. Queensland, the Brisbane Lions and the Gold Coast Suns are starting to reap the benefits and they're good. So suddenly the southern states are going, hold on —

[07:17] we're happy for you to reap the benefits when you're bad, but if you're winning premierships and finishing top four, we don't want you continuing to get benefit on benefits. So it's a really fun time to be involved with Queensland footy, but also, if you're down in Vic, keep getting wound up about it, keep saying stuff — I love it. I think it's entertainment and it starts to turn the AFL into a 12-month-a-year sport when all this stuff starts. You're making Liam's morning radio show easy — easy when you're

[07:47] a Gold Coaster. Yeah, yeah, it's money for jam for me. Can we get into some running? Let's get into some running. So hey, last week a few people were playing a little bit of a guessing game — you were grilling me on what I was going to get up to next since I'm back running. Yep. Have you seen Keegan's comment there? I'll read Keegan's comment out for you. So shout out to Keegan, farmboy_underscore_tassie, who's sent us a message here. He said: really enjoyed listening to the pod, sorry to hear about Liam's calves.

[08:18] I'll talk a bit about that later in the ep, but I'm glad to hear Courtney's back in the saddle. Just listened to last week's episode and I wonder — I wonder if I know where Courtney's head is at as per his next marathon. I've been meaning to message in about it for a couple of weeks because I have entered it as my first ever proper marathon. Been loving listening to the Wednesday marathon prep updates and I've used a few of Benita's tips whilst training for the upcoming Launceston Half Marathon. After hearing Courtney talk about it a little while ago, I've entered the Queenstown

[08:48] New Zealand Marathon, which is in November this year. I could be wrong and Courtney is thinking about a different race, but either way, I wonder if it's worth exploring for the both of you to do it together as an official In the Beginning does a marathon. It's not flat and it's on 70% hard-packed trails, so it's probably not a PB course, but I think it would be a fun one and a great way to experience a beautiful part of the world. Anyway, food for thought — keep it up guys, me and the running crew down here love listening in. Shout out to the full Tassie contingent of runners. Thank you, Keegan.

[09:19] And Adrian Gordon also said, Courtney is surely planning the Queenstown Marathon, and if he is, I'm locking it in too. Well, I guess the question, Courtney Atkinson — are you running the Queenstown Marathon? I am not telling you, Liam, what are you thinking? Hold on. No, that's not how this game works. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. No one's getting information like that at the moment. Are you OK, Adrian, Keegan?

[09:49] Apologies — he won't confirm or deny. Can I ask you some questions then? You can ask me some questions. How familiar with the Queenstown Marathon are you? Relatively familiar. Do you know the course? I know the vicinity of the course, yeah. Have you ever run around that area? I have run around that area. Yeah. What's it like? Beautiful. Yeah, I mean, if you're going to pick one, he's on the money. So what time — is it November? OK, but New Zealand's New Zealand, it's probably — I was just about to say it's like Melbourne.

[10:22] So it's in their summer, but it could — it could go one way and we could get snow. Is there much elevation in it, that 70%? I don't know. I think it goes out from near Lake Hayes — I think it's called, out at Arrowtown, runs its way into Queenstown, where I've done a fair bit of running in the past, along the water trail. I don't know the exact name of the trail, but along the lake there it's undulating, and it actually reminds me a lot of the Spit

[10:53] Trail here on the Gold Coast — just undulating clay, you know, and it gets soft in sections when there's been weather. When Keegan says hard-packed trails, is that what he's referring to? Yeah, that's what he's referring to. So you get a little bit of slip on them because there's a bit of loose gravel, loose rock. But as far as I'm concerned, I don't think there's anywhere I'd rather be or go more than the South Island of New Zealand. I'd love to spend more time there.

[11:24] I'm just bringing up the course map in front of me now — you leave from Arrowtown, bang on, you leave from Arrowtown and then you hook around Lake Hayes, and then you come in on the other side on Frankton Road. So you go around Frankton, then you're coming in on the other side of the lake — is it Kate? Oh mate, your pronunciation guess is going to be way better than mine — the big lake, and then you finish in Queenstown, on the main lake. So would you do it? I would do it.

[11:55] Let me ask you this — you're not going to get it, but if the Queenstown Marathon reached out to In the Beginning podcast and said, boys, we want you to come over, we want you to be a part of this, would you? To be considered, we want you to do In the Beginning Runs the Queenstown Marathon Series. To be considered, real spoilsport, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what — what I do remember about talking about Lake Hayes, and the reason I knew that random lake over at Arrowtown, was they — I raced very, very

[12:26] early in my days — the World Triathlon Championships they had there, just — geez, that would have been cold in the water. It was freezing. That would have been freezing, it was wetsuits. I mean, this was a long time ago, I'm thinking I was probably 19 or so, racing in the open category around there. And I remember we were talking — Ivan Raña, the Spanish triathlete, sent a photo — actually that was a little bit later than that — but he, I believe, mightn't have won it,

[12:59] but he was rocking that day too. So both of us as juniors racing in the pro race around there had a pretty good day out, definitely top 10. Hayden Wilde, currently one of the top two triathletes in the world, he's from the North Island, from Taupo. What is it about — because New Zealand — yeah, this is a good conversation — we talk about Australia as a sporting underdog, and we are, from a population perspective, we're also a first-world country that has great investment from the government into our sporting programmes, which is why we do so well. New Zealand is so much smaller than

[13:31] us, and yet on the triathlon front they — not just triathlon though, they punch well above their weight in any sport that requires suffering, they're brilliant. Do you have any insight as to why, having competed against Kiwis for a lot of your career? They're tough buggers. They just are tough buggers, both the men and the women — they're like the K1 kayakers, I can't remember the name —

[14:01] their middle-distance runners are, you know, up there world class, winning Olympic medals. They just punch above their weight all the time. And in triathlon, right throughout my whole career, you had Hamish Carter win the second-ever Olympic gold medal, Bevan Doherty third in the same race. You've now got Hayden out there — I'm going to miss a few triathletes in the middle of that — but wherever they've been at the Olympic level, they're always there in those Olympic events.

[14:32] But what I put it down to — and this is just a personal theory — is you talk to a lot of the New Zealand athletes and they generally, they've got so much free space over there, so much country, farms, and the way they're brought up in the outdoors. And this is the key, the outdoors — so I'm not going to say this is for everyone, but a lot of endurance-based athletes have just spent their life outdoors, out hiking and hunting or out on mountain bikes, mountaineering, you

[15:03] know, just hiking with their family on trails, or they just work on farms and they're just tough. That's a great theory, because I think — here I am talking up the Kiwis, isn't it? No, no, no — but I think to extrapolate a little bit, I think you could argue Queensland, from an athlete perspective for Australia, punches above its weight from a contribution level. You often look at the Australian Olympic teams and Queensland is overrepresented, and you could

[15:33] argue that that lifestyle you just spoke about, the great outdoors, is probably nowhere better evident than in Queensland. I'm going to challenge you a little bit on that. Challenge away. I think that's got purely to do with the weather. Just to the point — yes, it's an outdoor point, yes, it's an outdoor lifestyle, but do we have a tough outdoor unless — unless you're from the north, like if you're up in regional Queensland, up in North Queensland, different

[16:03] story. Just quickly on SE Queensland, I think that's long gone. Back to the New Zealand triathletes — he gave Hamish Carter a shout-out, Bevan Doherty, Erin Baker — is that the original? Yeah — Baker won the Hawaiian Ironman World Championships in '87 and '91, as well as the New Zealand Ironman four times — just doing a bit of quick googling. Yeah, no, I was just doing a quick bit of googling. And talking about news, just staying on the topic of Kiwis — for a country of that population, and I know rugby union is a

[16:35] geographically specific sport, it's not played universally, but for them, you could argue the All Blacks are the greatest international sporting team ever in any sport — the way they have dominated. And this is a country with a population of five and a half million people, and they probably got two and a half million of that since Covid because everyone wanted to move there. But the All Blacks, the cricket team — and I know again, geographically specific sport — still, nevertheless, yeah —

[17:08] yeah. Shattered update on Hayden — he showed a scan of his ribs, like three or four ribs cracked, completely broken. This is after that horrible bike crash after he'd just run that PB. Remember when I hurt my ribs because I fell off a bike and just touched them up a little bit, and I was whinging for six weeks about how painful that was? Yeah, he's back — I've seen him, he's over at the Red Bull Athlete Performance Centre in Salzburg at the moment, or close to Salzburg, and he's already back doing

[17:40] exercises with weights on his arms. He's back — I could already see him on a bike, riding. Oh man, ribs are the most painful thing. And then I think he had his collarbone all stitched up too — he was in the wars, and literally within two or three weeks he's back doing it. He must — I want to go over and run the Queenstown Marathon now. Talk about being a tough bugger — I want to go — why he does so well — I want to go hang out with New Zealanders now.

[18:11] Hey, can we pick up on another loose end from last week — Ben Tennant, who raised the idea of Hoka and the 30-day return policy, and whether it was a sustainable idea or not. Yes, I wasn't across this, but what he's saying is that if you buy a pair of Hokas, they give you a money-back guarantee to return the shoes within 30 days. What's ASICS' — a 90-day money back? Have you heard about this? I'd never heard about this before.

[18:42] No, me neither, it's interesting. He was saying he's training for a UTMB 250, he bought a pair of Hokas and he's Hoka-ing them right now — they're a comfy shoe, but he's not sure, so should he give them back? But his question is around sustainability. So one, is this a thing, you know, is this a good thing, that you get to try a shoe and then give it back? But two, for companies who drive so much of their marketing around being, you know, outdoor and sustainable brands, how does

[19:15] that work? So to be clear, ASICS' 90-day return — you can't go out and flog the shoes and then send them back after 90 days? So they don't have to be in their original condition. OK, let's remove ASICS out of that conversation — what's the Hoka one? Oh, come on, well, I'm just having a read through it now. So, 'fly for 30, guaranteed, or 60 if you're a member — Hoka shoes and apparel are designed to make you feel like you're flying, so take them for a test flight. If you aren't totally satisfied, just send them back within 30 days, extends to 60 days if you're a

[19:46] Hoka member — return the original purchase for a full refund or product exchange, no questions asked.' So you can give them a flogging — I read that, as Ben's just mentioned, you can buy a pair of shoes, run them for 30 days, or 60 days if you're a member, and send them back. Now why you'd want to — I guess, like with all these specials that people offer, I guess the company also kind of thinks, at some point you've got to question whether it's worth the effort of continuously buying a

[20:17] pair of shoes and returning them, buying them and returning them, buying them and returning them. At some point you question the return on investment on your time. Yeah, but it is a good idea — let's take the sustainability issue out of it for one moment, it is good. I mean, how often — and this is — how often do you get a pair of shoes and go, they're just not right? Didn't we have this situation with yourself, not long ago — they're just not right. I — this was — and this is even within, like

[20:49] I'll talk to it from a Salomon point of view — if you went out into the garage at the moment, I've probably got nine or ten different models of Salomon I'm running. Of course I run in them because I love the shoe, but there's a model over here that just doesn't suit me — some are half a size up, half a size down. It's a shoe that I might put on, run in once, and go, nah, not for me. If I could return them, I probably would, if — I doubt I'd ever bought a shoe that I didn't like, you know

[21:25] what I mean — the only shoes I buy without trying them are ones I've worn before. So if I'm going to buy a new shoe I've never run in before, I'll be doing it physically in store. I'm unlikely to just go, sight unseen, here's a shoe I've never run in, I'm going to buy it online. But what happens if in the first run you do a 10K easy run in a shoe and you get a hotspot? You're not going to know that in the store. No, it's true. Well, I'd probably just put up with it.

[21:55] I probably would just — let's be very clear, I don't think this should be a thing. I think it's a great initiative, the idea of it, sounds great, because for exactly that reason — I run in a shoe, once I get a hotspot, it's not for me, I can't run in it. But this is not in any way — and when I say sustainable, nothing to do with the environment — this is just not sustainable in any shape or form. So I don't advocate this in any way, but the fact they're doing it is, yeah, pretty interesting. So I've got an interesting one there — as the market for running

[22:27] grows and the popularity of running continues to boom, these brands are all fighting for their share. They're all trying to find new ways, and content is one thing, and looking cool is one — well, here's what I'd say, I don't think Hoka is a cool brand, right, in the way that we're seeing these running brands explore new cool content and attract influencers in that space. Nike Running, we've talked about

[22:58] some of the cool things they're doing — Saucony, Salomon, there's a coolness factor. I don't think Hoka's a cool brand, right, but they're selling a lot of shoes. They're selling a lot of shoes to people walking around in sports-style shoes. And just because I don't think they're a cool brand doesn't mean I think they're a bad shoe. But maybe instead of them trying to fight the battle for market share on the cool front and the imaging front, it's the practical and customer service front — and by offering something like a

[23:30] 30-day returns policy, it's continuing to reinforce, yep, we might not be making the viral reels, but we're a great company that makes a great shoe and will support our customer base with service and offerings. I've never put a pair of them on my feet. Neither have I — everything I know is hearsay, just people telling me what they think of them and how they run. And before everyone else was doing the massive rubber shoes, they were the ones to buy.

[24:00] I always told Ken Wallace to go and get a pair, because if you're a big, heavy-set fella — before everyone was doing the responsive rubber, I was always like, go and get some, because you're going to be landing 90 or 100 kilos on the ground. Yeah, you're running in the Clydesdale category, go get yourself a pair, put some rubber under those feet. I would have loved to have had those shoes as a kid on school photo day, though — give you some height. Yeah, yeah, give me some elevation. I don't think there was a single school photo where I wasn't sat

[24:31] in the front row as one of the kids with his hands on his knees. The shoes wouldn't have helped, mate. Hey, let's — we might come back to running in a minute — but I had this last week as well. I saw this reel, and I'm not going to call it a dinghy, although I did find out at the Olympics they do have a class called a dinghy. Dinghy — am I saying that — you're thinking about it so hard — dinghy, dinghy, but this is all about

[25:01] you know, technology and sport and the whole notion around foiling. So this is a — what would you call it? Come on, Courtney, I'm trying to get there. It's a class of what they sail at the Olympics — you see the smaller kind of little skiffs they sail at the — I think it's what Tom Slingsby sails at the Olympics, isn't it? Yeah, the small ones — I mean, down at school, down on the river, you see the kids flying around in these little dinghies as well.

[25:33] Sailors are just going to crucify me at the moment for the way I'm saying all this, but it's literally one of them on a foil. Now, we've obviously seen foil surfing, we've seen the America's Cup style boats with the foils — this is another level of putting a foil in a small boat. When you see how action-packed foils have made the whole water industry, it got me thinking what other sport could get changed in that way. An example I had was if you took

[26:05] racing, like cars for example — you've got four tyres on the ground, it's pretty hard to change up that sport by that big a technological advance, looking into the future, Star Wars, that type of thing. If you had cars running on some type of magnetic surface, a propulsion system where they're off the ground, the speeds still produced by different ways of getting there — let's not even try to think about how that would work, but you get the picture. Is there any other sport that could be changed as much as this?

[26:35] That you can think of, because when I look at this sailing and the way this boat is travelling across the water, to me it's a complete — like it's another whole realm of sport compared to what they were competing in before. And is there even, except for the full traditionalists, a place in the future for sailing where they don't have foils? Just to go back for a moment, to answer the question for people sitting there going, what is Courtney talking about — as we described, this rule is kind of a mix between — I've just done a bit of a look — it's what's probably at the

[27:06] Olympic level referred to as a 49er skiff. Yeah, it's not a dinghy, OK — and mixed with a foil, an iQFOiL, which is a class into itself within windsurfing and kiteboarding. So it's that iQFOiL set up on a skiff base with the trapeze netting through the middle. But just to provide that information for people — this is a guy from Italy racing it. Everyone's trying to evolve sports, everyone's trying to get out there, and even the Olympics themselves — how long is it till that's your Olympic boat

[27:36] you'll be sailing around? I'd be surprised if that's not here for LA. You're right, it's that fast. And I think, especially now, with the Olympics you've seen their willingness to adopt and adapt — the next Olympic Games, the pentathlon is going to have an obstacle course element to it instead of the horses. So the Olympics are more adaptable, the IOC is more open to change than they've ever been in history.

[28:06] And as a result, when innovations occur in sport, I think in Olympic sports they're going to be more prepared to adopt them than ever. What sport is open to that next level of change? It's a difficult question, I guess — it's got to be a sport with an inherent technology as part of the sport, so running and swimming and those kind of bare-bones racing when you consider — running might have already had the plates.

[28:36] I mean, it's not as far as a foil, but — remember when Usain Bolt cracked the shits because he said the adjustments they'd made in the shoe technology — his statement was, and I think it was before Tokyo, he said if I'd been allowed to run in these shoes I would have run under nine seconds. That was, you know, I thought that was a little bit of him just — well, it's an easy thing to say because no one's ever going to be able to prove it. But running, I don't know, they've already kind of done it, as you say, with the

[29:07] plates. Swimming, unless they want to wheel things back as well — they tried to go, yeah, some sports, right, if you go too far, they wind it back to keep it to an extent. Remember Graeme Obree, the Scottish cyclist, the flying Scotsman, who changed the tuck — and then they just outlawed that position, partly because of safety, but partly, I'm assuming, because his records were so far

[29:39] out because of the technology. Hey, I've got two stories about that — velodrome, sorry, tangent, remind me to come back to the sport I think could be subject to the next technological change. Just talking about bloody quick technology out of the velodrome — when I went in for a ride the other day, riding around the crit track, there was one of those egg-shell-styled bikes, so you actually sit down in your — oh, yes, yes, yes — pedal it, with the aerodynamic fairing around it. I think they do some kids' racing

[30:12] out there with the schools, and this thing was flying — I was — it wasn't solar-powered, it was just pedal-powered, and it was flying. He'd come off the hill and obviously had that momentum, and without having the aerodynamic drag with it, he was still getting up right on the edge of the velodrome, it was moving so quick. I reckon it would have caught a few of the mountain bikers and runners going in there. That's cool. Yeah, that's cool, very cool.

[30:43] Golf was the sport — now if there's any golfers out there listening to this, please forgive the blushes I might be about to deliver. Golf is a sport that's reliant on technology, but at the same time the best golfer always wins the golf. The technology, I don't think, ever surpasses the golfer's skill — so it's never going to completely remove — you can't just have the best clubs and win.

[31:13] But the technology, the technological advancements that are happening, have made the drivers more forgiving than ever — the miss has never been smaller for the best golfers in the world, whose misses are already very small anyway, but their misses have never been more forgiving. The golf balls have never been more complicated than they are from a technological perspective — so much so, there's been a long debate going on for years now

[31:43] about whether or not the golfers actually need to have the technology wheeled back on their golf ball with what it's capable of doing off the club. Because the other thing about it, as the technology grows and adjusts in the world of golf, the courses aren't changing. You can't really grab some more land — particularly in America and some of these big cities, there's no more land. So when Bryson DeChambeau starts driving the ball 400 metres, some of the golf courses become redundant. Now he's obviously well back on

[32:13] a lot of his technological exploration of the game. But then the other part about the technology around the world of golf is these indoor ranges, and I forget the name of the tour — TGL, which is an indoor league, and it's the best players in the world playing in this indoor league. Tiger Woods plays in this indoor

[32:43] league, smashing it into the net or something. So that's the way we think of technology around golf — these arenas that they've built, it's more like a football stadium, it's more like an indoor boxing arena, because yep, there's the classic driving-range projector screen in front of you, but it's massive — but instead of just having the one mat, they've got thick rough,

[33:16] they've got a fairway, they've got sand, all these different lies you play out based on where you've hit the ball. So the range can incorporate your lie better than it can on your rinky-dink setup at home. But then the putting green is the truly amazing piece of technology with these TGL leagues, because once you land your ball on the green via the projector, you then go to an actual green, and your ball — it's now the green is always the same. And that will be the next evolution.

[33:46] The green itself will — but it's an actual green that you then have to putt on live and in person. So it's kind of taken golf and turned it into an arena sport. So that would be a technology — now that's something that's already happened. But yeah, I love that, it's very — the green, the whole idea of it, every time you play — it's very, very cool. I'll show you some videos after today, but the TGL golf league, that

[34:17] was a major step for the world of golf from a technological perspective, because — and you think about it, to take it away from the sport, you think about it from a fan's perspective — suddenly, instead of having to fly or drive or travel, you're going to the big arena down the road. It's just like going to Suncorp, or just like going to ANZ Stadium — bringing the people to it. My other story — I was thinking about this out at Nerang, out at the state forest, I was sitting in my car on the weekend, I was heading in on a mountain

[34:48] bike ride, and I was just watching the guy in front of me, saw a young guy get out of his car decked out in the best trail gear — like, look legit, right, started doing some quick leg warm-up actions, looked springy. I'm thinking, man, this guy's going to have a good run. Anyway, he would have spent a good five minutes going back and forth to his car doing a few things, warming up. The last thing he did before he went out running — little ciggy — oh, it's Will Goodge. It's Will Goodge. We

[35:22] spoke about Will last week. Yeah, this is the very, very first time I've ever seen this live in my life — three big puffs, three big draws, put it out, off he went running. Why? Oh God, I don't know how — I've never been a smoker, but the thing is, I'm not a smoker because one of my first jobs, I was at, like, I was about 15 in a pub in Adelaide, and

[35:53] I'd work one night a week, and it was — you could still smoke in pubs, this is back in '99, and I would go home after this one shift a week stinking of cigarettes, and I would go to school the next day stinking of cigarettes. And it put me off it at a really early age — I've got no interest in this — but I've always thought on hot days, how can you put a cigarette in your mouth on a day like today? It's stinking hot, why would you put a burning piece of paper in your mouth?

[36:24] The idea of starting a run — do you have — oh, like, I've got no issue with it, it just blew me away. I was like, OK, like, maybe if he was sitting around beforehand — no — well, even if he got out of the car having a ciggy, put it out, started warming up, and then went off to run, but it was literally like part of the warm-up process. So it was warming the lungs up, I guess, getting them to work a bit harder. Do you think that was just because we were speaking about it last week, or is this an

[36:56] influential factor of what we've seen? I doubt anybody's jumped on the trend of having a dart pre- or post-run because of Will Goodge. But by the way, isn't it interesting since we spoke about it last week — I'm not saying it's because of us, but I've noticed, I kind of thought after he set the record, broke the record, there was the initial conversation around whether he's done it legally or not.

[37:26] It's still going — we're over a week on. The Project did a piece on it a couple of days ago. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah, The Project had an effect on it — news is news, good news, bad news, it's still news, news is news. Let's get to some more — we've got some more. Thank you to everyone for putting messages in. Michael Gryphon — he just said, love the pod, thank you for bringing your perspective into these fringe sports like ultras and extreme endurance achievements. They're becoming more mainstream thanks to social media, as we just discussed. Yeah, the recent conversation

[37:56] about how these are fundamentally selfish sports, even if there's a selfish aspect, was bang on in my opinion. If you're interested in an upcoming grassroots event in your backyard that still maintains a very humble atmosphere, you should check out the Butter 24 Hour track race at Griffith Uni Southport track in a couple of weeks — no podium, no prize money, just a few people seeing how far they can push themselves over six, twelve, or twenty-four hours. I like this.

[38:28] So the Butter 24 Hour track race at Griffith Uni Southport — no podium, no prize money, just six, twelve, and twenty-four hour options. Michael, thanks for the message. I could not think of anything — really, the thing that kills me there is the idea of running around a track — that's what I'm saying, running around a

[38:58] track at a minimum, running around a track — I get it, it's the mental aspect of it, I don't know, maybe it's around speed, is that the quickest way you can run to do it? But I respect it, definitely respect it — I just think, hey, go to the bush. Well, what I do like about this as a race concept — the no podium, no prize money aspect, and the idea of how you've got six

[39:29] hours, run as far as you can — and I think, to combine that concept with what you just said, imagine if you had a trail loop and said, right, now it's the six-hour edition of the trail, so you've got six hours, maybe it's a 15K loop out in the bush, go for it, see how many you can get through. There's a lot of ways you can do running, that's for sure, because it's like those backyard ultra events, which I think is what Michael's probably alluding to as well, talking about those ultra endurance

[39:59] events. The way they run them is another interesting way to run, but you could do it straight as well. Yep, nice one, awesome, thanks Griff. Do you want to get to Jeff? Yep — Jeff Hardcourt, hey guys, was just listening to EP 34 — a few weeks back on my run this morning, the talk was about changing — remember this one — changing trail tracks being made easier for runners and walkers etc, and the mountain bike tracks as well, so dumbing down the tracks to allow more people to get

[40:30] in and do what they do. Anyway, it got me thinking, do running events do the same thing for runners? Do we extend the cut-off time for marathon walkers too much? Maybe we get onto that one in a second — have we made running a marathon no longer a special event for the people who put months of training in, if someone can simply walk it and take seven hours to do?

[41:01] If you're walking it, is it a marathon? Well, it is a marathon, distance-wise — I know the distance is a marathon, but if you've walked it, can you say you raced a marathon? I understand what Jeff is saying there about have we made running a marathon no longer special.

[41:31] I really do understand that. Now I think we've got to be careful, because just because it becomes more accessible doesn't necessarily make it any less special — or maybe it does, I don't know. I think if you go out there and walk a marathon, I don't see that achievement as being the same as someone who has run a marathon. I don't think walking a marathon is the same as someone who's run

[42:02] a marathon. What do you think — because you're staring at me like I'm digging my own grave, and I'd love you to throw me a lifeline, Courtney. Well, OK, I'm going to put Jelly Roll into the conversation — if he walks a marathon, is that a big achievement? As big an achievement for him as someone who's trained and broken a three-hour marathon? Yourself? No, no, no, he's walked a marathon, I'm not saying it's not a big

[42:33] achievement — I don't think you can compare the level. I'm saying they're different — they're different categories, they're different sports. I'm so nervous I'm going to have a swarm of walkers come after me now. Well, interesting, like, if you walk — I suppose it takes seven hours if you walk, is that how much it takes? Seven hours walking, give me strength — what a horrible way to spend seven hours.

[43:04] Yeah, at least get a trot up once or twice. You know what, Liam? Hey, speaking of Jelly Roll, I'm being the plus-one here, because my tune is changing on running, just like a lot of things I would have said in the past. Performance, performance, performance. I'm learning, I'm learning along this journey — participation. I'm learning along this journey we're going on that everyone has their own reason for what gets them out — some of it is just to tell someone I did it.

[43:34] Who are you and what have you done with Courtney Atkinson? This is not the Courtney Atkinson I — started a podcast, maybe? This is eight weeks of non-running doing to you, Liam. Hey, Jelly Roll, good segue — Kate Jones Adventures said a local triathlon race, 60 people, a couple of weeks ago in Sydney, and I did read about this — Dexter, the lead singer of The Offspring, loves dogs, he's a real triathlon fitness nerd, loves it. So he was just out there, sixty

[44:07] people, local triathlon race, and all of a sudden Dexter, lead singer of The Offspring, jumps out there. And Kate — I know Kate — and she said he was struggling with his wetsuit, so she went over and helped him put his wetsuit on. There you go, that's cool, I love it. That's something we'd love to hear more of — if you spot celebrities, A-grade, B-grade, D-grade all the way down to F-grade, just give us that — pretty fly for a tri guy, there you go, I like that — hashtag Celeb Tri — but if you see people of any level of celebrity

[44:40] competing in events, tell us about it. That's good, I like that one. So this one I'll take — I had to apologise to someone on our Instagram messages. Did you? What did you do? Now, I'm not going to blame you, Liam — sounds like you're about to — but you love jumping in sometimes and reading a message, and then not replying, and then not pressing that button to say unread so we can get back to it. Anyway, I'm not blaming you because I don't know if that's what happened — that's probably what happened.

[45:11] Yeah, probably what happened. Anyway, this person was lovely enough to write us literally an essay, and I read it, it was great, I'm not going to go through the whole thing, but one of the things she said — hey team, listened to episode 35, running playlists, yeah, we got curated mates to share their pump-up songs, love that, I listen to Dog Days Are Over, the more I say that over in my

[45:42] head, I'm actually probably regretting it. She also said, yes, I was screaming Umbrella from The Academy — from the car here, we get a lot wrong here. Anyway, what I want to bring up is the Kokoda Challenge — yeah, we know this, I think they do it in multiple areas, but out the back here of the Gold Coast, it's a 100K challenge. Yeah, a great initiative here is around the school kids getting involved, teachers from different schools, getting groups of their school kids

[46:14] going out on the weekends with their parents as well, training and getting them to go — and I'm not sure exactly where they do the whole 100, I'm assuming teams do it, yeah — and going out there, and I think what an initiative to get out and give back, just in general, teachers who are going out to do this. I would love to see more of this type of healthy activity being driven. So Kokoda — I noticed that at the ring, because they finish coming into the velodrome there, and I know when Kokoda's

[46:44] coming each year — do you know why they grade the trails? It's the one time of the year the parks get in there and on the fire roads give them a good clean-up. Some of the roughest sections that have been knocked around by the rain, they get a grader in there, and it's that time of year where I'm like, hey, we know what's coming. So I'm going to give a shout out to a guy in Addy Gordon's crew, Paul, who's a teacher on the Gold Coast.

[47:15] I believe he teaches — I don't want to get the school wrong, and just in case he doesn't want me to mention the school, I won't — but Paul is a year 12 coordinator, and Paul is an English teacher, he's a legend, he's a ripper, he's one of those great people to have in a run crew, because if you're ever flat and not up for a chat but you don't want quiet, you need a Paul. Paul, regardless of how he's feeling, how he's running, same energy, same consistency — great,

[47:45] great glue guy for a run club to have. But Paul's also been doing the Kokoda Challenge with teams from his school for probably the past three or four years, and hearing him talk about the reaction and the growth he sees in his kids who take part in this — it's gone from him dragging together a team to complete the 96K challenge, to now they're fielding two or three teams in it every year. And the enthusiasm and the conversations he's shared with me

[48:17] about a kid who DNF'd one year as a year 11 student, I think — and he's like, we're here next year, we're coming back next year. And the agreement he puts in place with the kids is that if you sign up, you commit, and the commitment involves this many parkruns that they monitor, this is your training, you commit to doing these pre-training or pre-race hikes with me on these dates. And it seems like an amazing way — obviously these kids

[48:50] have got their formal education they're doing as far as studies, but it seems like an amazing exercise in resilience for these kids, then leaving school, regardless of what they're going to do — it seems like an amazing bit of resilience training for these kids to then take out into the real world, commit to something, and it's a tough thing to commit to. I love it when they're training — at the moment, even I've seen a few of the kids on the weekend, you'll see the group of them coming down, and you'll have if you're at the front, chirpy and happy, and then the ones at the back, who are probably getting the most out of it, are the ones you can just see little daggers

[49:22] in their eyes — there's nowhere else they'd rather be than in that forest on that fire trail. So Kokoda is — and there are — you don't have to tackle the 96K, it's an intimidating number, but there are shorter distances as well. Now, we got past some information on Wednesday's episode, Liam, that I think — can you give an update on your running, what's happening? Yeah, if you missed Wednesday, this is how decisions are made — decisions have been made. I'm not running the Gold Coast Marathon this year.

[49:53] The calf just doesn't want me to participate — not my race, not my prep, and that's OK. I've made peace with that. I genuinely haven't — I'm not just saying that because it's an easy thing to say and be happy about everything — I've made peace with it because I know that it's just the right thing for my body. If you listened to Wednesday's with Benita — agreed. Courtney, you've known — you've known for probably the last three weeks that I was never going to get to this. But I'm still training.

[50:27] My passion for running and my excitement about running hasn't gone. The thing I have fallen in love with a little bit is riding again, this time on the road. So the cross-training sessions Benita was giving me on the stationary bike at the gym are a punish, and I still maintain — shout out to Ree Crean and the people who sit on their bikes after an Ironman prep for three or four hours at a time, you are maniacs, I don't know how you can do it — but I went out for a ride,

[50:58] I've been doing those cross-training sessions and I finally pulled the road bike down off the wall and said, I'm just going to go out for a ride. And I was loving it — I was just riding out in Currumbin Valley on the weekend, and I think the cross-training had done the legs some real good. My tank was there and I was absolutely loving it out there. It's probably because — every time you've run in the past, what, eight, ten, twelve weeks

[51:29] nearly now, or ten weeks — you've probably just been stressed. Yeah, there's been a little bit of that — and this is, it seems so silly to talk about, because there's absolutely nothing riding on me running the marathon this year, but it's the weight of expectation, and I realise how dumb that sounds to say for me, who has nothing riding on it other than my own expectations of myself, and everyone who listens to

[52:01] this. And even then, if I don't make it, well, what are they going to do to me? I can only imagine what you must have felt going into an Olympic Games — when I'm feeling lighter just because I pulled out of a marathon, now I can go and enjoy a ride in the valley — what did you mentally feel leading into an Olympic Games, stress?

[52:31] Stress — you manage it, you manage it, but there's no getting away from the fact that, as the level of eventual performance escalates, and no more so than representing the country, because it's beyond you — it's beyond you — then, like a footy player each week, we've just talked about, there's more being said than just you racing at that point. But what I'd like to say is,

[53:05] each level of performance, or each level of event, everyone still goes through that same thing to a degree — that's what I've learned. So the way I'd explain it is, when you're a kid, there's some kids today who are running — I think it's the time for regional cross country and that type of thing — at that point in time, the regional cross country for that child is the biggest thing in their world, it's their Olympic Games, and if you're a parent, they are facing the same stress that I faced going to the Olympic Games.

[53:37] If they're anxious, or performance-focused, there is no difference. And I know this because I've gone through every single level throughout my life, and it was always the same — there's always a pressure, a stress and anxiety if you want to perform at every stage, because at that point in time you're at the highest stage. And if that's for you a three-hour marathon, if that's for me the Olympic Games, for me it

[54:07] might be — that's probably half the reason I've never chased a marathon, because I'm always focused on the time, and there's an element of anxiety to that — how do you go? You know what it is — everyone faces that, and I think that's the one piece of advice I could give, not just to people performing, but even parents dealing with kids as well — you know that everyone's going to go through it in different ways, but what you're doing at that time is the most important thing to you.

[54:38] I love that, by the way — clip that up, there's our reel for socials this week. To pivot then from a parent's perspective, which is why the reinforcement of it's got to be fun — if you're a parent whose kid is showing potential in a particular sport and might be competing at those regional levels, might be looking to graduate to that next level where it starts to become

[55:08] a little bit more serious — you, as a parent, I think it's beholden on you to keep it fun, because that kid is going to find their own way to get stressed about it, and as you just said, it's the biggest thing in their world. So there's a parental responsibility to keep it fun and to lessen that anxiety and that pressure as much as you can. A hundred percent — I like that. But yeah, in short — I'm back to you. In short, I'm a bike rider now. I'm a bike rider for the foreseeable future, but

[55:41] this is where my brain now — my brain is dealing with it as well. I'm really excited about the fact that I've signed up for Noosa again this year. I'll be — I love the Noosa Tri, I don't think it's the greatest weekend, we've talked about it at length previously, but I'm already engaging with my bike two months earlier than I ever have before for the Noosa trip. Right, so I've got new goals. Hey, one of my best mates, Justin Waite, sent me this saying — it was about these guys riding blinged-up bikes.

[56:13] People who say money doesn't buy happiness are runners. I have already — are you looking at a new bike? Looking at bikes — oh shit, I jumped on Facebook Marketplace the other day, I was like, oh, who's trying to offload their last season's bike for a discount? So yeah, now I'm a rider for the time being, but still as in love with the running scene as I've ever been, but the body's just not agreeing with me for now. What about you — where are you at, where's the body at? Cruising along, I got back to

[56:46] the Spit this morning, didn't do the session with the Gold Coast Run Co mob, but warmed up 20 minutes, I'm up around 10K's worth — not walk-running it. So I did the full warm-up this morning with them, so the first time I've kind of run without walk-running. So 20 minutes, and, you know, they're some of the quicker runners, so when they move along, that was a wake-up call, and then I just did some, like, five minutes, and then just had a bit of a walk in between, playing it

[57:16] conservative, still, but not around 45 minutes. And how's the body feel? Great — yesterday I was out doing some course checks for Red Bull Race the Sun, fast approaching, at the back of the mountain. So I was on the bike, and I was actually out on the bike for probably two and a half hours, I climbed nearly 1000 metres of vert on the mountain bike. Tell you what, I'm not as fit as what I was eight weeks

[57:46] ago — I was going to ask how's the tank? Because — I mean, it's not — I just rode two and a half hours with

[58:17] A little — who are we talking about? I should have said this when we were talking about tech earlier — so how do you reckon you pronounce this one, EV — Avelo, the Avelo Super Trainer? Yes — well, no, it's a smart running shoe, Avelo smart running shoe. So I've got a bit of audio, but it doesn't really — let's have a listen. Anyway, here's what we know: the running boom was sparked by a visionary coach who transformed the sport into a global revolution — not sure who that is.

[58:47] Since then, runners have been driven to get stronger, run faster, go further. Our shoes transformed from cushioning to carbon plates, the science of running advanced, records fell, the barriers shattered, watches became smart, our watches became wearables, running clubs became movements, and millions more discovered the power of running. I'm going to leave it there, because it's a, it's a, it's a

[59:20] marketing exercise. But the power of running, that was the end — what we'll get into. So we're going past wearables, what's the next thing — and they've effectively put some type of power meter built into their running shoe, so you'll get data out of it, they claim, around power — so how much force you're hitting the ground with, somehow deriving some biomechanics data out of that to help you, all in a fancy app, and claiming to be the first ones to do it.

[59:52] Well, there was a brand called Stryd — power meters for runners — that had done this. Oh, this is not new tech. Yeah, but — so Stryd was like a wearable you put on your running shoe. They've then gone and built this in, and put it in a nice app and marketed it together. Now, I don't think this is actually out yet, they're just doing the promo push around it at the moment. But what got me thinking is, why didn't Stryd —

[01:00:22] because power meters in cycling are now just part of what you buy on a bike if you're going to be a serious — if you're a serious cyclist, you're buying one very shortly if you're not already. Your next bike will come with a power meter. And it got me thinking, why didn't the power meter for running — because I remember Stryd isn't new, I can't remember what year it was, but I did a quick google on it and just asked, literally, why didn't it work? And what I got back was, there

[01:00:53] was already other technologies in the watch — accelerometers and heart rate, all these other things that were already there. But they said running, the running world tends to be very slow to adopt new technologies compared to cycling, so power meters are already more common there. They just didn't for some reason really click, didn't have that wide appeal. Why I'm interested in this is I knew about it, I love power meters

[01:01:23] on bikes and I never tried it. Why didn't I try this with running? Well, it's a question only you can answer, Courtney. Why do you think you didn't try it? I don't know, I've never — until today, and I've seen this come up, I was like, why didn't I ever grab one of these power meters for running? Because I'm quite interested in the science, especially — five or six years ago this was something that really interested me. And I think the conclusion I came to was there wasn't enough evidence to suggest it was a

[01:01:55] good enough tool to use. So that's my question now on this one — what's changed? Why would this work? My instinct says it won't. I'm trying to figure out on the fly why I think this way as well. My gut response, my knee-jerk response is, nah, not interested. And I wonder if it's got to do with the psychology of when you're running, it's just you.

[01:02:25] There is no machine, there is no other component to it that needs to have a measured thing. Well, it's twofold — you don't have to watch it, but when you come back from running you see all the data and you can monitor it, so it's like a post-running tool you can use. I think you're right on the money there, actually — like if you're riding, for example, if you're going out and climbing a mountain or doing some training on a bike ride, you've got the computer screen right in front of your eyes 100%

[01:02:55] of the time that you're looking at, and you know exactly, at that point, what my heart rate is, what my power is, what my cadence is. And you're not getting all that with running unless you wear some of those fancy sunglasses we've talked about where it's all up in front of your eyes — you've got to put it on your arm, even watching heart rate is a pain in the bum sometimes. I agree, and I think, yeah, again, there's a level of escapism to running, because the data matters when you're running an effort set, or running tempo or intervals, or

[01:03:27] whatever it is — you are paying attention to your output, but you're paying attention in the moment for that specific thing and then you want to switch off. Yeah — let us know what you think, would you have a listen? Maybe we need to invest, maybe Avelo running needs the injection of In The Beginning podcast. I'd say, you know, reliability of this data would be a massive question in itself, but just the whole notion of running with power is an interesting one. But like I said, they're not the first to be there, they're just the first to package it up like this.

[01:03:58] I've got — do you have — because I've got a quick-fire question I want you to just finish. No thought, first response ready. Are you running the Queenstown Marathon? No comment. I tried, I tried, I tried, I failed, but I tried. Before we finish up, a quick reminder — if you missed it at the start, or you've forgotten about it because you're out on your long run — subscribe and comment, subscribe, rate, review, comment, that's what we need from you. We want to give away this Polar

[01:04:30] Pacer, Polar Pacer, a watch and a chest strap, heart rate monitor, the H10 — the legends at Polar, the Polar Pacer, the H10 heart rate monitor sensor. We have got one to give away. We're going to keep this competition, this giveaway, open for two weeks. It's a two week window. Subscribe, rate, review the podcast, and in a couple of episodes' time we will reveal the winner. Yes, just in time for them to strap it on for the Gold Coast Marathon. Yep, we'll chat again next week.