EP 25 - THE RED BULL CHALLENGE TO OUTRUN THE SUN

[00:01] In the beginning, episode 25 — and let me start this one out by saying shout out to anybody listening in southeast Queensland, because what's been going on the last couple of days is something I've never experienced before: a tropical cyclone. Not just a thunderstorm, not just heavy rain — this is a cyclone. So shout out to anybody in it, and just be sensible — there's no need to push your running in these sort of conditions, right? Let's just be reasonable about this. How are you, Courtney? I'm good, fresh from a run this morning, feeling good.

[00:33] Everything's happening. But the exciting news this week — I've been holding off on this — Race the Sun 2025 edition. We're on, it's on, we're on, and applications are opening today. Oh, really? So Saturday, March the 8th, our locations will be open. So we'll put it on the socials, but it's also on Red Bull's website — you can get in there and get it. Can we do a bit of a Q&A on it? Let me ask some questions.

[01:03] I've never competed in Race the Sun, yeah. Well, most people have only seen it from afar — this is literally your brainchild, this came out of your brain. Talk to us a little bit about how this race started and how you came up with it. Yeah, so we were always challenged at Red Bull to come up with unique ideas — I got a little bit of inspiration, I went and watched the Speed Project over in the US, but I always wanted to do something around trail and also show off my backyard. So SE Queensland, northern NSW — the best, we've got some of the most

[01:33] beautiful places here, and the hinterland as well, largely uncelebrated as far as tourism goes. But even further out, like the Scenic Rim — have you ever heard of Woodenbong? — No. — Woodenbong, funny enough, is called the Yowie capital of Australia. — Are you saying Woodenbong? — Woodenbong. Wooden, as in the material, bong as in what they might use down in Nimbin. — Yes, Woodenbong. Woodenbong. OK, OK.

[02:03] Cool, and it's the what capital — the Yowie capital of Australia? As in — so when I first went out, like Bigfoot type stuff? — Yeah, mythical creatures, mythical hairy creatures, right? — OK, the reason it is, is apparently in this area they've been spotted. — Right. — Yeah, and they own it, this town. So this is probably — where are they? — They're on their way out to Legume, the place, anyway — going out to where this course goes, out towards Tenterfield. As you're running down the road

[02:33] there, there's a sign — 'Yeti's Crossing' — and they've actually painted the symbol of the Yowie on it. — And so what, anyway, that's — OK, that is, you did take us down a side issue there. — Yep, you've stolen — you've stolen the indication of where we're running. — Stolen the idea from the Speed Project, rather. — You've been inspired. — No, inspired — and you've wanted to show off your backyard? — Yep. — So how far is it? — So we've got 345 kilometres. — That's a long way. — That is a long way.

[03:03] It's a team race, so the teams are six — so it's a relay race, a relay run, with a minimum of two females in each team as well, so that's part of the race. Now we start at Surfers Paradise Beach. — I've seen, I've seen the start. — The start, under the famous sign. — Mm-hmm. Coming off the Gold Coast, it goes out through the inland, out through the Scenic Rim, and ends up in Tenterfield, which is just over the border into NSW. And the goal of this — so the

[03:34] whole idea of it, and the whole idea of why I wanted to make something specific but also unique to what we do, is you're racing the sun. So we start at sunrise sharp at Surfers Paradise Beach. Yeah. And the whole challenge for the teams is to get to Tenterfield — we finish at Bad Manners Cafe, this little boutique cafe in Tenterfield. You've got to beat the sun. — That's so cool. 24 hours — last year we had, I think — — So it's not beating sunset that day, it's beating the sunrise the next. — No, we're talking about 24

[04:04] hours. So you're gonna find a lot about yourself in this. The teams — the whole idea is to get clubs, communities, brands, people who already run together, to bring a team. So it's applications, and then we choose a limited number of teams, just because of the nature of it — it's quite an unsanctioned race, we're on public roads, and a whole range of things. — Before we get to how does it work — you say it's a relay, so is it a rotating thing where the teams run once and you're done, or you're running multiple times? How's it working? — It's up to the teams, it's — you

[04:35] structure it yourself. — There's no game plan? — Yeah, how can you get, as a team of six, from Surfers out to Tenterfield as quick as possible? Have you done the maths? 345 Ks in 24 hours — what pace? It works out to be about an average of 4:20. Last year the teams came in a little bit quicker than that. — So — you're calling me out on my memory here. — No, no, no, but what sort of elevation are they climbing through this? — So 345 Ks, 6,700 metres-plus of elevation, so there's some big

[05:08] climbs in there. Road, trail, country, four-wheel-drive tracks — it's got a bit of everything in there. Here's — I suppose last year we had five teams beat the sun. — Out of how many? — So we had 13 teams start last year, and 11 finished. What happened, though, is these five teams — everyone's like, you know, you must be stoked they beat the sun, and I'm like, no, I didn't — the course is designed so I'd be

[05:38] happy if someone beat the sun by one minute, one team, but it's a challenge, right? So everyone was better than what I expected. — So you actually designed this race wanting people to fail? — Yes, it's reminiscent, and people might not know about this, by the way — I've just done the maths, 345 Ks in 24 hours is 4:10 pace. — OK, that is absolutely flying. — No, so these teams were quicker than that last year — especially — it is flying,

[06:08] especially when you consider there's — up here — there's 6,000 metres of elevation. — 6,700, yeah — so there's some big climbs in there. — How are — but how are they, anyway? You know the Gold Coast. — Yeah. — Beechmont. — Yes. — You've gotta go up that. — Well, that's just the start. — And how are they maintaining 4:10 pace? — It was really impressive to watch last year, and look, people are probably sitting listening to this going, you know, all the elite runners from

[06:38] Australia — the team that won was part of the unofficial run club down in Sydney. Now, I wouldn't — if you looked at their team, by no means would I consider them all elite marathon runners or elite runners. They outran the Gold Coast team, which had some really, really fast 10K runners in it. — Yeah, right. — They both attacked it very differently. So the unofficial team, who ended up crossing first — at some stages they were doing just like K reps.

[07:08] Right, so — think of running in the middle of the night, and they're just burning out — K rep, K rep, K rep, K rep. Gold Coast and a few other teams, which were probably more stacked with runners, relied on the better runners to run longer — or not even relied on them, but it's more natural for them to run longer stretches. And then I even saw a few of the runners warming down from their run — they were actually running extra on top of what they were running, just because they're used to cooling the body down and everything. So it was a really interesting mix. Now, here's the kicker —

[07:41] I've had to change — we haven't changed the course, but I have changed some of the nature of how this race will pan out, for two reasons. One, I want to make sure it's not too easy, but two, it's a safety thing. So instead of the way it's run in the past — we've had one section of trail which two runners from the team have had to run together, point to point, which is 20 — they're over two hours out there doing that. There are going to be multiple

[08:13] legs this year that are going to have to be run, where you've got to run a certain distance — for example, up a hill, you might have to run 7K up the hill with one runner. What that does for us is — trying to run this challenge, we don't want, on small mountainous roads, people chopping and changing and all of that — it makes it a lot safer. But it also makes it a bit more even through the team, because my goal is to have the majority of that team of six have to do at

[08:46] least one long run in that 24 hours as well. Again, if you divide the total distance by the number of participants — six people per team — you're looking at having somebody run anywhere from 50 to 60K over the course of the event. So we'll share some of the stuff from last year — like we had people after 24 hours last year, we've got this clip of this guy sprinting down the road in Tenterfield doing probably a 2:40 pace, trying to beat — we had a sprint finish for 2nd and 3rd. It's crazy after 24 hours what

[09:17] happens. We're really keen to see what type of teams we get applying this year, because I do know more people know about it now. Yeah. So please, if you're interested, apply. If you've got questions, reach out. And then when this is all over, everyone — the first thing you want to do is sleep. So when you get to — you want to go to sleep. And then, for those who come, we put on food and drinks for an after-party for them at night, and celebrate everyone's success as

[09:47] well. — We'll put the details of how to apply, as you say, in the show notes. But yeah, have a look, get around it — you've designed a unique event here in Australia. Quickly, what came to mind then, hearing you talk about it — and it's appropriate that you're sitting here today in a plaid shirt, looking a little bit rustic, because — have you watched the Barkley Marathons? — I have, yeah. — Yeah, you've got a similar race-director attitude to the bloke who runs that, which is that it's designed to

[10:19] be hard. It's not designed to have people finish, it's designed to test people. Yeah. This isn't the bar — I don't know, but that mentality of, yeah, it's meant to be a challenge — there's a really interesting perspective on designing a race to take that — I don't want to call it a morbid mentality, but to take that — I know, I don't want lots of people finishing this, I want people to walk away

[10:49] having failed and being inspired by the failure. You know the old adage of you win or you learn. I imagine there were people that raced last year that didn't beat the sun who would have learnt some lessons about how they paced it, how they broke up the race between their teammates, how they trained. — The feedback we get after it is, when you're delirious at night, going through this 24 hours, it's different — you know, I'm assuming I'll have some trail runners here who do hundreds of miles going, 'I do a run over 24 hours myself,

[11:19] it's easy.' The difference here is you're sprinting and then recovering — so it's a different style of running. It takes a — if you imagine you've just done a hard 5K at 2am, and then you sit in a van — what's the first thing you want to do? You just want to relax and sleep. But then someone taps you on the shoulder — get back out the door, you're going again, we need you to run up this hill. And this goes right through to the morning. The other thing I did learn last year is — yes, I set

[11:49] people up to fail, and they didn't — but I'm glad they didn't, because for those teams who beat the sun, it didn't matter, it didn't come down to who won the event. There was this mentality I didn't envisage, that it was just about beating the sun. So each team had their own challenge to beat the sun — there was a race within a race, but not really, not really. I think the teams that beat the sun were just stoked. — What about the teams — if you don't beat the sun, do you still finish the run, or do you just get in the car and drive? — No, no, no, everyone still

[12:19] finishes. We welcome everyone in — like last year, probably half the teams were, I'd nearly call them your Hyrox-style athletes — it appealed to them right through to, two years ago we had Tim Vincent come along and he ran a few sections. It's a big mix of all sorts, and definitely a lot of fun. So we'll see where this goes. — Well, maybe you could have a celebrity team this year, Courtney. — Are you calling yourself a celebrity, Liam? — No, I'd like to nominate a captain.

[12:50] OK, I'd like to nominate a captain for a Race the Sun celebrity team. — OK, slightly more recognisable than myself. — Harry Styles — One Direction — are they even together? I guess they're not together. And he's in form — hey, have you seen this? Everyone would have seen this by now — anything Harry does, when he passes, people write stories about it. Harry Styles, the three-time Grammy winner, has run — the Tokyo Marathon — and he's

[13:22] run it in a very impressive 3:24:07. — And a negative split, or — even split? — Even split, he's run — that 3:24:07 is about a 4:50 pace marathon. It's great running, but the split is what makes — you know, gives him his bona fides as a runner, because he's

[13:53] run the first half in 1:42:03 and the second half in 1:42:04. So he's literally even-split the whole thing — he hasn't gone out just jogging, there's a plan here, he's obviously been training. — And that's as good a celebrity marathon as I've seen. It's funny, because when I saw this, it's like we're stacking up — last week we had Jelly Roll, this week we've got Harry Styles — who appeals to you more, Liam?

[14:26] I find Harry's run more impressive, I'm not gonna lie. But it's interesting, because I remember coming across an Instagram carousel post a while ago, and it was basically all these celebrities you didn't know had run marathons, and it had their times as well. And I started flipping through them going, geez, I hope I'm faster than all these celebrities. And I was flipping, flipping, flipping — and I was only three minutes quicker than Harry Styles, and I have no Grammys. So I'm just saying I need to pull my finger out and get

[15:00] better at running, or start putting out some hits. — It turns out at Gold Coast you've got to race on your hands, is what you're saying. — No, look, I love the result. Hey, moving on from Harry, though, because I don't think we need to go down the boy-band route — but Hyrox Brisbane — — Yep, on the way — was it last weekend? Red Bull's obviously involved with this event, I had a lot of friends and people I know go in it. I still — I do want to do it, I really want to do it one year, it looks fun, I would love the challenge of competing in Hyrox. But what did I —

[15:32] wanted to bring up with you — did you see the run times? — No, I didn't see. So, being fully transparent, last year — because Red Bull did get involved as global sponsor of this race, or of the series — I was all in, I went and checked out the Brisbane one, watched it, was following it along really closely. This year I have not — it's not as new to me now, so I have not so much lost interest, but I've kind of not been watching it as closely. And last year I did want to do one myself.

[16:03] I've lost that — I'm not — I'm still into running, I 100% want to run, so I haven't followed it as much. But I've got a feeling where you're going with this — you're going to tell me how quick these guys are running. — Well, I will — and girls, so now they run 8x1K efforts. I think there might either be an issue with the recording, because I've looked through a few athletes and it seems to suggest they all ran the first K in 2:13, which I don't think is right. So the way it works, if it was the same as last year — when I went to have a look, they run out of a chute when they do

[16:35] their first K, right — which I don't know whether that means they're not running a full lap. So they kind of come out halfway, where they go in to do their activities like their rowing and their lifts and everything else, then pop out of a different chute on the other side, and then obviously run multiple loops back into that chute. So I assume that might be the variance. Yeah, I don't think it's a full — it's certainly not a full kilometre, because I'm just looking. — So what about — what about the middle? — Well, yeah, this is what I want to — certainly forget the first one.

[17:05] Forget the first one, all right — Stephen Carter won the event for the men's — Hyrox Men Pro Elite field, Stephen Carter was the winner. — Give me a range, what do you think he's running his Ks in, out of curiosity? — Oh, I'd expect them to be around 3:30. — Stephen Carter's fastest kilometre was 3:42, his slowest kilometre was 4:02 — OK, so he's keeping it nicely paced in that zone. For example, go down some names —

[17:36] go — who — list the names, can you see — first, second, third, fourth? Yeah — are these overall finishes, not running times? OK — Stephen Carter took it out for the Hyrox Men, he's in the 25–29. Jess — second. Luke McKenzie, former Ironman — so Luke got third in the pro race. — Yep, you're looking at pro in the Hyrox men's finishes? — He got third overall. — Wow. — I think so — what's Luke running? Because he's, you know —

[18:07] he's — let's have a look, I'll bring it up — Ironman runner in his younger days, was around world junior championships triathlon and a whole range of — not a very handy runner, Hyrox men — I'm making sure I'm doing this correctly, says Luke McKenzie won his age group and finished third overall. — Yeah, 40 to 44 — analyse, here we go — total running, I'm going to go to his running splits. Luke's fastest K was 3:51, and his slowest K was 4:06.

[18:43] Yeah, that sound about right? — It sounds right, yeah. I'm just making sure — I think these are age-groupers, not the — not the pros, could be wrong. But it's interesting to note, as an example, that these athletes are — yeah, here we go, pro — it's Hunter McIntyre, he's a big US name. — OK, so you knew I was on the wrong page? — Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's good. But talk to me about Hunter's race, then.

[19:14] So where are you finding these run splits? — If you click on the athlete, then there's an analyse button on the far right. — Oh, running fastest 3:29, there you go — 3:29, average pace 3:28. — OK, so I didn't know that — and in the first run, you're right, it's skewed, it's 1:53, so it's not a K. So this is like triathlon in the old days, where you'd finish a race and go, 'oh, well, how'd you go? What was your average pace?'

[19:45] 'Oh, I did 3:28' — well, the short — it was a short course. — Triathlon — this is triathlon all over again, you know, we used to run — I used to say, yeah, I ran a 28, and the course was never right. — This is the case — just looking at this Hyrox thing, the average pace has got nothing to do with how quick they run — look, 3:29, 3:40, 3:34, 3:40, 4:34, 4:40, and last one 3:52. So you're looking at about an average of 3:40 to 3:45 running, right? So is that impressive to

[20:17] you, within Hyrox? — I don't know, it is to me — like if you asked me to run 8x1K intervals and hang around and do, I don't know, push-ups in between, I wouldn't be able to run that as a pro. Again, I don't have a good enough understanding of what the exercises in between require, but here's what'll give context for me, right — Azzy Gordon, who is the coach of one of the run groups I'm a part of here on the Gold Coast, and

[20:49] he's a former professional triathlete like yourself. He participated in the Hyrox event alongside V8 Supercars driver Tim Slade — Sladey jumped in at the last minute because Sladey's fit, he's always fit — they won their age group. But Azzy — his fastest kilometre was 3:49, and his slowest kilometre was 4:14. So he's hovering around that kind of four-minute pace

[21:21] average. So he's — I mean, that's his running, coming from a running background, right, so he's running about 10 seconds slower than the pro men. — Yeah. OK, so no, it is impressive, but it's just fascinating to see that, because this is a competition built around hybrid athletes, right? — Well, listen, we've probably got more runners listening to us, that's why I want to be really open with this, because we're seeing a lot of the trend of Hyrox — you know, if you go to your social channels at the moment, you're more than likely to see a

[21:51] well-built male or female running down the road being filmed. — Yep, hybrid athlete. — Yep, Hyrox athlete. — Just to be even — I just looked up the pro women, so Connie Stevenson looks like she's won, and I'm not going to say her average pace because we know that's wrong, but she's gone splits of 4:24, 4:26, 4:24, 4:24 — so she's around that 4:25 average mark as well. Can I give you one more athlete from this event, as a point

[22:23] of comparison? Because we know that on one side of the fence heading into Hyrox, it's runners who also take up a bit of gym work — on the other side, it's CrossFitters who try their hand at running. Yes — the name Tia-Clair Toomey. — Yep, a legend, also an Olympic legend, who — don't know an Olympian, but also — Commonwealth Games gold medallist in — was she? I've got a feeling she was a Commonwealth Games medallist in weightlifting — in weightlifting, I know her as the fittest woman on the planet

[22:54] from CrossFit. Yes, she is — she's a Hall of Famer of CrossFit, right? She competed in the mix with James Newbury, also an Australian CrossFit champion — they're running pace, Tia's running — yes, her slowest kilometre split was 3:53 — sorry, her fastest was 3:53, and her slowest was 4:05. So the pointy end of this — that is — so the pointy end of this competition, you're running

[23:24] it's 4-minute Ks, yeah, for over 8K — for Tia, that's incredible. — I wonder — I don't know enough about it, like with the team, are you running, doing the whole event? Obviously the weights are less in that one — anyway, I believe so, yeah, we don't need to unpack it. But very much a case of Hyrox finding its level, for the winners of age groups and mixed races and all the rest of it, around that four-minute pace.

[23:55] Because I always like throwing in the marketing side of it — brands and athletes and everything — it's interesting that you're seeing a CrossFit boom for so long, and now Hyrox is the new baby taking their share — you're seeing the CrossFitters turn up at Hyrox. — Exactly. I imagine when Hyrox first started they would have been turning their nose up at it, and now they're joining the crowd. Yeah, because if you want to get in on making money out of this thing, or growing your brand, or staying

[24:26] relevant, you've got to swim with the new crowd, you've got to swim with the new fish, and Hyrox is where things are going. — Hyrox is on. — OK, we won't talk about Hyrox — no, no, we are running. Although I am going to try my hand at it next year. Quickly — this is a bit random — 17 weeks out from the Gold Coast Marathon. I'd like you to tell me — you can talk to me, or you can talk to yourself, or you can talk to everybody — but where do you think I should be

[24:57] at 17 weeks out? Because I know there's people who've signed up for the marathon and they might be doing their first, their second, maybe their fifth — depending on how much experience you have with it, and how much experience you have with running, that would adjust where your mindset is at about it. I know there are some people who are already getting ready for the Gold Coast Marathon — I work with some people who are doing it for the first time and they're already on something of a plan.

[25:27] I also know that there are some people who've never done one before — this is going to be their first, and they're already planning on doing a 12-week block. And I also know for myself that I'm going to do a 12-week block, but in a way I've already spent probably the last 5–6 weeks building my base ready for that block. So I just want to get an idea from you — 17 weeks out, where do you think runners should be at? Where would you like to be at?

[25:57] Where are you at, that sort of attitude? — I mean, the answer's going to be dependent on what you want to run in the marathon, but one thing's for sure, the longer the preparation, the better — but also mentally. So when I say the longer the preparation the better — we've talked a lot about mileage and building a base — if you can have consistency and build that base without really being too focused and pointed on the marathon at that stage, when you go into the marathon prep it's going to be a lot better.

[26:28] It's going to be a lot easier, and the level you're going to be able to go to is going to rise a lot higher. So let's get that out of the way first — but you've got to also balance that with how long, if you're not a professional runner and that's your life, how long mentally can you stay in a structured programme? So what I would say is — I've made it work, caught up with people at work who are already, you know, 21, 26

[27:00] weeks out, doing a long run that's structured to get them to the Gold Coast Marathon. And I'm like, wow, 26 weeks out — that's half a year, six months. But if you can manage that, and mentally you're happy to do that — yeah — that's fine, and you're going to go really well off the back of that. But I'd say, look, 12 weeks is the bare minimum — but when you arrive at 12 weeks, you want to be at your mileage, you want to be ready to actually get into the grunt of what you'd consider marathon

[27:31] work, and start to get a bit more specific to what you want to do in that marathon. — See, I look at that and think, right, I've got four or five more weeks to really up my mileage, because at the moment I'm averaging about 50 to 60 Ks a week — I'm sitting in there, which for me is probably more than I've done consistently, ever, really. But in my head, going into my 12-week block, knowing what I want to achieve, I know I probably need to get that weekly total closer to 70, which is achievable

[28:05] for me — mind you, at the moment things have been busy, but I couldn't get that done. But the one lesson — and I'm like you, it's all dependent on who you are and all the rest of it — but the one lesson that's stuck in my brain over time, and the mistake I made previously — the first time I ever ran a marathon, I signed up to London on about two months' notice, and that was a mistake. The second time I ran a marathon was here on the Goldie,

[28:36] and the mistake I made was thinking that the 12-week training block I was following would get me ready to run a marathon. That's not what the 12-week marathon training block does — the training block is there to get you to hit your target, it's not to start you at naught 12 weeks out and have you ready for race day if you're running twice a week, 10Ks a week, 15Ks a week. And I'm giving myself advice here, no one else — but what I'm saying is, the longer — if you said to

[29:07] me, where do you want to be — you asked me where I want to be now — yeah, I'm not as good as I want to be now, because I'd want more and more, I'd want to have more base behind me and more mileage behind me. But my goal is just to make sure I get to that 12-to-16-week period knowing that I've prepared my body — that's the key, I suppose, prepared my body, everything's balanced, I've got no niggles. And then I can get into that 12-to-16-week block. And that's not just for marathoning — I mean, that's for any kind

[29:38] of race I'm targeting, whether it's a trail race or whatever — you can then get into that block and get straight into the work you need to do. So it's not a start point, it's actually — it's the point to be more specific. It's almost like you're rolling into it, it's like a rolling start as opposed to a gun going off and now you start running — you want to roll into that 12-week, 16-week block. And whatever — I always think of it more from a mental point, from being able to manage — if I'm going to do something

[30:09] like that, I'm really going to follow this through, because I want to get the best result — how long can I manage that with my lifestyle, my life, my kids, my family, everything else? And if you're going to try and do that for six months, it's going to be a lot more challenging than just going, look, I need to be fit, but I'm actually able to manage — if I miss a bit here, if I'm balanced, that's fine. And that's you, as — people have — we've gone through Courtney's journals, this is a man who can handle structure and handle routine and handle sticking to a plan for

[30:43] most people. Most people may never have followed a structured plan like this before, or may not have done it recently — so the idea of suddenly having a training plan in place for three months, four months, they're probably underestimating the mental toll. So then, if you think about it — I'm not trying to say just go and run whatever, but if you have a good weekly structure that's consistent, and you're just building on that and making sure you're not getting

[31:14] injured — those are the goals, right? Just build consistency, build mileage, don't get injured, and get yourself to whatever time out from the marathon you decide is when you're going to knuckle down. That last one — don't get injured — is the key there. Get to that, whatever it is, 16 weeks, 12 weeks, fresh. I think that's key, being fresh — you don't want to be like, oh my god, I'm already — I'm naked now, I'm naked, or, I've got that niggle in that calf and now I've got to

[31:45] start — like, it's probably not going to end up good. And like we know from numbers, and talking to some of the marathon organisers, the drop-out rate — we know there's going to be a massive drop-out rate from people who've entered a marathon, and most of that is due to injury. — Yeah, yeah, yeah, I like it. All right, let's move on. Speaking of marathons, we've got a fella here by the name of Ryan — big shout out, Ryan Kelso, he's from Armidale in NSW. Love that we've got some listeners south of the Queensland-NSW border.

[32:15] Yeah, because we've given the south a bit of stick in the past, but honestly, we're both — we're boys, both Queensland based — big shout out, Ryan. He's sending — with huge amounts of comments coming through and messages, keep sending them, we love reading them and we'll get to them as we can. Ryan says: boys, some feedback — found you somehow at episode 19, and listened through to the most recent. So I love that Ryan's gone back to the start — well, no, sorry, he didn't listen through from the start, but he started at 19, kept listening. He says: anyway, this week I've had a massive week on the road, so I

[32:46] started back at episode — he did go back to the start, he did go back to the start, a lot of people are doing this, it's good to hear. He says: today I was travelling to Port Macquarie to do a half marathon, as a 108kg bloke, I'm upset there's no Clydesdale class. — OK, so Port Mac doesn't — oh, that's a half marathon, not a triathlon — doesn't have a Clydesdale class for running races, not a big fan of this, all right. Ryan continues: anyway, my wife was in the van and we hit the road this morning, kicking off episode 7 — we listened to seven and eight and a bit of nine on the drive, at the end she mentioned how good that was.

[33:17] She doesn't run, she's 20 weeks pregnant so has no intention of running, but we both laughed along and chatted as we listened along. Usually she doesn't listen to my podcasts, and he lists some of the ones he listens to — Rogan, Hamish and Andy — as she likes podcasts like Hamish and Andy. Well, I like to think Courtney and I are kind of Hamish-and-Andy-ish. Anyway, long story short, 20-week baby mamas who don't exercise even are loving the podcast. I've downloaded episode 10 and 11 to my watch to listen while running Sunday. Thanks for doing what you do, guys. And then he sent an update — yeah, yeah.

[33:47] So I wanted to know, because he said he was going to a marathon — I wanted to know how he went, not the time, I just wanted to know how he felt, like, was it good or whatever. And he's come back — his goal was to run under two hours, or run 1:59 through the 18.5K mark, and he did that, and he had a ball doing it. And that's the key, right. But this is what I love next — so Ryan's putting on, sounds like he's gonna get together and put a marathon on in Armidale next year, which is great. And he's thinking he needs to add the Clydesdale class. What he's thinking, though, is

[34:19] not Clydesdales — he wants to, because they're out west, name it after a reliable tractor brand. And he said Massey Ferguson. Have you heard of Massey Ferguson? — No. — No, so — this is, Ryan, this is what got me, I was like, I'm interested in the tractor brand — Massey, Massey — spell check must've got a bit lost in translation there. — Yeah, a Massey Ferguson I've heard of. — OK, Massey Ferguson — I thought it said 'Massive Ferg', might have been spell check.

[34:50] A Massey Ferguson. But he wants to honour the big heavy diesel out there, while keeping to the country roots. — How good, what a great branding opportunity for a tractor brand, or some sort of heavy-duty excavation — well, I don't know, tractor brands, obviously John Deere, that's another thing — John — well, this is where I was going with this, I thought John Deere, from what I've seen on YouTube, cop a bit of it too with the country — I don't know what they've done, something around profits — or, OK,

[35:21] you know, one of those things, so — well, Massey Ferguson — you can see it, what do their tractors look like? — Oh, good, they're good, they're good. — What colour, what's their brand colour? — They're red, they're all about the red — tractors racing red, yeah. They make good telehandlers, and I don't know a thing about heavy machinery, mate, honestly, I don't know a thing about heavy machinery, but I love that Ryan's done this. And I also — right — behind it, and if you don't have to call it Clydesdale, but if you can get Massey Ferguson or somebody else on board, they

[35:53] should sponsor it — what a great initiative, we'd love to see it. And if you need help trying to get them on board, give us a shout, we're happy to give you a reference, Ryan — yes, we'll give you a reference. So thanks for that, Ryan. Now, mate, I've got one — normally this is me getting called out about not knowing my data or other things. Yeah, so you said last week we're talking about the average marathon, being a 4:25 marathon, and I think you said that would be a 5:40 pace. OK, just to correct you, we got

[36:25] this in from Remy, in the Spotify comments, and it's more like a 6:17 pace. — Is it? — Yes, and I went and checked this, so I've verified this — it is, well, it's 5 seconds off the average Strava pace. So when we said globally the average pace run on Strava is 6:22, yeah, it's 5 seconds off, equating to the average marathon pace run around the world.

[36:58] All right, I apologise then, thank you, sorry. — You didn't upset me, no, no, no, we want to make sure we get our information out correctly. So anyone aiming for that 4:25 marathon, or around there — you've got to run — don't listen to Liam — 6:16 pace is your required pace, 6:16 to run a 4:25 — you'll be an hour behind Harry Styles, but anyway. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So a few more from last week — had Nick Pemberton — Pemberton, you're terrible with names, aren't you — Nick Pemberton can —

[37:29] you just jump in earlier so I don't make a fool of myself — just call him Nicky P. So we've obviously had these Chinese shoes we've been looking at for a few weeks since — now, you running them? — No, OK, not yet, for run I will — I will, not yet. I have been on the trails, and I think they would have been great — on the trails they wouldn't, they'd be terrible on the trails. — No, so he's saying it started from a non-branded shoe, so he might be onto something there with the Chinese stuff. He said a few other things, but what would be a

[37:59] brand name he was interested in — like, when we were talking about whether it was a reputable brand, or a brand you know or trust, or whatever it is — but what would — I'm throwing you on the spot, Liam, anyone listening also think about this — if you had to name your shoe brand right now, you've got 10 seconds to do this. — Jeez, don't use — I'm not going to use ChatGPT, no, no, no. — What would you — what's a cracking name

[38:29] for a shoe brand? No pressure, no pressure — you've done this to me before, and the second part of this question, while you're thinking — he said, who would be the influencer? No, it'd be you, Liam. — Is there a brand called Stride? Stride shoes — would you wear a Stride shoe? — I'd wear a Stride shoe. — You wouldn't wear a Stride shoe. — Why not? You give me a name, then. — Yes. It's not so fun with the shoe on

[39:02] the other foot, is it? I should have actually probably thought about this beforehand. So I had a cracking one to give — do you know, just while you think about it, I'm gonna — this is, I don't know how we arrive here, but — and play along, as you're listening to this — this is another one of those things that I heard once and it's cemented in my brain and it will never leave. But apparently the most beautiful word, or two-word phrase, in the English language

[39:34] is 'cellar door' — as in, like, you know how wineries have, if you go to a wine tasting, you'll go into their cellar door. Apparently that, because of — it's got something to do with the sounds of those two words and what they do to your brain, through the neural pathways it activates — makes it, by some metric, the most beautiful phrase in the English language. So if I can tell everyone — so say it — cellar door. — Cellar door. Do you know why I was quiet?

[40:05] Because I wasn't — I thought you may have been, like, talking literally, it's a cellar door. — No, no, no, it's the idea, that phrase of cellar door, cellar — — You still haven't helped me find a name for a run shoe. — Well I was going to call my shoes Cellar Doors. — Cellar Doors — well, that sounds good enough, anyway. — Hey, thanks, Nick — if people want to suggest shoe brand names, well, I'm happy to steal them. — Happy to steal them. Yeah, all right. Bit of audio, hey?

[40:35] Let's go. Everyone knows if you want to increase your VO2 max, you've got to run with your mouth covered and your nose covered, and breathe only through your — it's called — the last bit cut out there — it's called butt-chugging. This is Jay Frey who sent this through. — Yeah, we love this, because this is off the back of the nasal breathing, the nasal strips, the nasal tape — we've got some real advocates of nasal breathing, and then we've got some real people just having some fun with it, to their own. — Yep. But Jay Frey's having fun with the idea that maybe breathing

[41:08] through another orifice is the best way to get better. So that was the intro to it, sure, making a bit of fun of it, but then this is the man himself talking about it, about nasal breathing: this is a podcast about some of the benefits that we have when we breathe through our nose instead of through our mouth. — And I can't tell, when I watch you, you look so relaxed — certainly for the first half of that marathon last Sunday, when I was watching you, I thought — obviously talking about the marathon — just breathing through his nose, or is his mouth open?

[41:38] Do you think about this? Is this something you're aware of? — Yes, but I breathe through my mouth. — You breathe through your mouth? — Yes, from the start to the finish, the more the speed, the more — you cannot breathe through my nose either, at the speed you're going. — No, I can't believe that, I can't believe that. But thank you for clarifying that. — It's good enough for me, he's just shut it down. — He's good enough for me, at his speed — he's going mouth out. — He didn't sound like he's ever heard of nose breathing. — Until I see an elite field of marathoners, or the final of the

[42:11] 10K at the Olympics with nothing but nasal strips. — Yep. We have been sent — the guy who broke, oh I don't know what country's record it was, might have been one of the Scandinavian country records the other day, had a nasal strip on, and someone sent me that one — I also really agree, I can't remember, I apologise, I can't remember the name of the podcast I heard this on. But I also do agree with the notion that if you put one on, at best, it's going to open up your airways and

[42:45] increase your ability to take more oxygen to your blood. It can't hurt, that's the — and that's the thing, at worst it's not going to be detrimental. At worst, you look a bit silly, yeah, and that's not going to make you run slower. — I agree with that, I agree with that, it can't be detrimental, but each to their own on that. On that one, we've got Rich Ross — so this is, I suppose, a quote that I've seen before, but it was on this podcast as well, I just love it. The idea that only the disciplined ones in life are

[43:16] free. If you are undisciplined, you're a slave to your moods and your passions. — It's good, I mean, good — you talked about my diary, my diaries — this makes so much sense to me, and, moving forward now into my life today — even the last few weeks, you see me shipped, like I'm off one place, I'm travelling to the next place, trying to keep my running structured. It takes me back to those days of the diary, where it's —

[43:46] actually so true. When you know what you're doing day to day, you've got structure, you get up and you've got a plan — that's when you've got freedom, because it actually gives you time. If you don't — if you wake up every day kind of haphazardly, I'll get to that later, I'll do this later — you miss half of it, and you just end up wasting time on it, probably scrolling. And there, ladies and gentlemen, is the motivation to stick to your marathon plan when

[44:16] it starts — that's why you sign up to a plan that's big, so you don't have to do like I have done previously, and like some people are probably doing right now, wake up and make a decision on what to do each day. You know what it is? It's like — have you heard why Barack Obama wore the same, and Steve Jobs wore the same clothes every day? — Yep. — Decision fatigue — that's one less thing he's got to think about each day. — That's it. Do you do that? — No, no, I want to look good.

[44:46] No, I work in a non-visual medium, I don't need to worry about what I'm wearing. — No, but I do — I do understand decision fatigue — sometimes I get it, when my mum and dad will give me a call and ask me some questions, it's like, stop making me decide things. It's like calendar Tetris — that's my decision fatigue, when you've got your calendar for the week, bad at calendars, and you're trying to work out the blocks, but you also want to block in time so you don't have to do anything — I've got to get better at calendars, it's a challenge.

[45:17] OK, kidding — I like this one, I like this one — talking about Brooks, we've riled up a few people, but Stephen Miller in particular: we need to stop bagging out Brooks, especially the Ghosts. — Now, we weren't bagging them out, we just said they weren't a shoe we expected to be high up on the list — I'll say Brooks are not a cool shoe. — Brooks aren't a cool shoe. — I don't think Brooks are a cool shoe. — I'm not saying they're a bad shoe,

[45:47] I'm saying they're not a cool shoe. So Steve — yeah, he's got Pegasus, ASICS Nimbus — don't even know what that one is — Hoka — but his Ghosts are the favourite. — Really, Liam? He said you should go and buy a pair. — I don't — I kind of want, you know, we've got a fair few shoes we want to try on, I've got these shoes on a list, I want to try just to understand them better, I kind of want to try them now. — There you don't. — No, I do. — There you don't.

[46:17] I do. — You're saying you do because Steve's put pressure on you. — You don't. — No, no, no. Look, I'm sure they're comfortable, they're just not cool. — You're good at reading — can you open this link about Hoka? — Oh, this is — OK, so if you're not already following the Believe in the Run advocate — and you should be — this is very much off the back of, they said Hoka launched new ultra-cushion boots for ageing pros with zero knee cartilage. And this — we've talked about the foamy shoes that exist these

[46:48] days, and we talked a bit about some shoes the other week — the new Salomons, those trail shoes, which we've both run, but very foamy, right — and as a result they're comfy as hell, they're so comfy, they're a great shoe to run in. But do you have that foot feel, do you have that sense of the trail and that activation of your feet, if you're wearing these shoes consistently with a heap of foam in them? And this Believe in the Run piece is suggesting Hoka's launching brand new heavy-foam shoes specifically for all these footballers who are now taking

[47:19] up running, yeah, because they've got zero cartilage, literally, in their knees. — The Clydesdale class — it would be the Clydesdale shoe, great name for it, the Hoka Clydesdale, that's what they should call it. — Well, I'd consider the Hoka actually the Clydesdale shoe up until now — I mean, this week they've just released a new Vomero — Vomero, yeah — which is what they're saying is finally their foray into that real over-the-top — right, I haven't seen that, I'm having a quick look at it. The Nike Vomero 18 brings

[47:50] maximum cushioning to Nike's new road running lineup. Holy dooly, yes, that is — I'm just having a look at a picture of the Vomero, that is — that's a combination of both of the foams they use. But yeah, they're going — they're aiming at that max-cushion market that's obviously been Hoka's for a long time. So yeah, everyone's playing in that space. — It's very comfy, I just, again, don't know how much your foot's activating if you're running in

[48:21] that. All right — Jessica Joy, hi Jess — thanks — Jess is a track rider here on — — oh, you've talked to me about Jess before. — Yes, and — yeah, OK, I'm fascinated by — do you get up for work early, Liam, on morning radio? — I don't think I get up for work early. — OK, I know I get up — my alarm goes off at 3:30 in

[48:51] the morning. — I reckon Jess would be challenging you on this, all right — I reckon as a track rider, we're talking horse racing here, thoroughbreds — I don't reckon she'd get up earlier than me, necessarily. — 100%. What time are they up? — They're well before dawn. — I'm up when it's dark. — I'm going to take a stab — 3:30 at the track? — No, really — so yeah, you reckon Jess gets to work at

[49:21] 3:30? — I don't know, I'm just — they get the horses out before dark on the Gold Coast, you know what time the sun comes up here — if you're going to have the horses out training at dusk, be prepared, you're going to be there bloody early. The track rider typically arrives at the track very early in the morning, often as early as around 4am. — Oh, OK, I was half an hour out. — At four, do you get to work at four? — No, I'm there at 4:30. — But it takes half an hour for you? Sorry to call you out, Liam, but — she is calling you out on the

[49:51] Chinese carbon shoes being ugly, though — she loves them, nah, that's — the Oilfield effect — nah, that's a rotten-looking shoe, and — you know what, Jess, in your defence, or in my defence, I jumped online after I ran in these things, had a look, there's much nicer-looking versions of this shoe — there's other colourways of this shoe, this OneMix company. — Courtney just ordered the ugliest ones. — Well, not everyone thinks they're ugly, that's the point.

[50:21] That's the shocking point, yeah. So I'm keen for Jess to get back to us, because I want to learn more about the fact that she runs as well — she does a Saturday morning long run, is that what she says? — Yeah, so she does it on Saturday morning, so maybe she gets track work off that day. But I'd love to understand — if you're a track rider, this is a physical activity, and there's obviously a lot of things involved around that — how do you then structure your day around running and doing that as well, that would be really interesting. And she also — throwback to the issue I had with a certain pair of Nike shorts

[50:54] looking like I'd pissed myself if you start to sweat in them — Jess has said: late to this one, but the green shorts with your sweaty-shoe lump — this is what I like to call the piss-pant test. As a woman, I like to wear bike shorts for a lot of my runs, and I like colourful shorts. Some colours and brands will stand up to the piss-pant test running in them, and see if your crotch sweat is visible or not, and others will not. My husband has a pair of maroon and burgundy Nike shorts, and they have passed the piss-pant test. It can be done. — There you go. Yeah, love the podcast, look forward to a few tips. Love it.

[51:24] Thank you, thank you. Let's get onto run weeks, Liam — all right, what have you been up to? I have to find someone to do these long runs with. I got one done last week — I managed to get a long run done, I did 17 on the Saturday. My sleep — look, this isn't going to be revolutionary, so I'm not going to turn into a real, like, certain run influencers will — sleep's really important, sleep matters, who would have thought, actually. And out of all people, I'm assuming you're more challenged on sleep with

[51:55] your schedule. I had a really rough week last week, and I wasn't getting — I was probably averaging 5 hours' sleep, and it's just not enough. And then I had to work an AFL game on the Friday night, which meant I didn't get home till 11, after starting the day at 3:30 — Suns-Swans practice match. So I started my day at 3:30, I got home that night at 11pm, and then I got up to go and do my run group with Azzy out of Main Beach the next morning. So I got maybe just under 5

[52:30] hours' sleep, and I went and ran — now, I got 17Ks done, right, so it was a good hit-out in terms of time on feet. I felt terrible, I felt really lethargic, I felt sluggish. At no point — normally if I'm a bit tired and I get my run going, I kind of wake up — that feeling of alertness never came. And I went home and I said to my wife, I need to go back to sleep, I'm really tired. I ended up going back to sleep for like 3½ hours.

[53:01] I was knackered — it wasn't a nap, it was a sleep. — But you're also probably catching up on not just the one night — this is — well, this idea of sleep deficit, I think there's this notion that you can't actually catch up on sleep — but the point is sleep matters, right? If you're trying to run — of course it does improve — sleep matters, well, one, it matters for running, but two, over time it's all the recovery aspect of it as well. — That's it. So, no — hey, no — question for you, because people are getting to know

[53:31] you obviously through this running podcast. So when you're out at these AFL games — so was it Suns-Swans on the weekend? Like, how does it work, are you up in a booth, on the — box? — Yeah, a little — we'll go off on a tangent about AFL commentary for a moment. Yeah, so Suns games, Lions games, I've got a few interstate calls, in fact — weather pending, tomorrow I'm meant to be down in Sydney doing GWS-Collingwood. — Oh, right, for Triple M? — Oh wow. — So I'll be down there tomorrow, obviously.

[54:02] Again, flights and weather pending — yes, calling the game for Triple M — yeah, basically I am up in a commentary box, sitting alongside usually another caller, a couple of former players. And then we've got a producer sitting behind us, and I whack the old binoculars in front of my eyes, and — yeah, cool. It's — you don't watch the big screen? — Well, you can, and I'll look at the screen for a replay, but I just find it's essentially, say what you see. And I find it's much easier for

[54:34] me to say what I see with binoculars on, staring at the players directly. Yeah, OK. It narrows your field of vision, you can't see what's going on behind you. But it is my favourite part of the job — it's the thing of, I hope no one from AAA management's listening to this, because I'd do it for free. — Don't say that! — The fact they pay me for it's ridiculous. — What happens — like, with my pronunciations, how do you go, new season, new players, how do you go with names? — You practise, Courtney. — Yeah, you practise? — No, I remember.

[55:04] But how do you actually know what the correct name is? — You rely on the clubs to do a bit of that work for you when they sign a new player. There has been instances over the years where the pronunciation of a footballer's name has been a point of conjecture — Orazio Fantasia is a player who played for Essendon, then he was at Port, now he's at Carlton, and it's obviously Orazio Fan— but there was a big story, a talking point with him in footy world briefly, because one of the commentators, Brian Taylor,

[55:37] came out and said it's actually pronounced Fan-ta-sia — or maybe Orazio said that, but his name is spelt, in the English language, Fantasia, right — like the Mickey Mouse film. So if you saw it, you'd think you'd say Fantasia. Now, that's also an amazing name to have and to get to say as a commentator — Orazio Fantasia, it's an amazing name to get to call. Yeah, Orazio Fantasia — it doesn't quite roll off the tongue the same way — like Gout Gout, and Gout Gout is

[56:10] a great name to call, and I'm not saying that that's what we should call him if that's not what he wants his name to be, but there's always a bit of theatre about all these things. And in rugby league it's a different kettle altogether, because some of these players come into the game and their name gets anglicised — and then years later, I can't even remember what he originally was called, but Josh Papalii, the big Queensland front-rower who plays for the Canberra Raiders, right — came into the league and it was Josh Papa-lee, Josh Papa-lee, Josh

[56:41] Papa-lee — and then, probably six or seven years into his career, he corrected someone, he said actually it's pronounced Pa-pa-lee-i. — Oh my god, after six years. — Yeah, but I'm very much of the opinion that if someone tells you how they'd like their name pronounced, you should acknowledge that. So now Josh — and credit to all the NRL commentators who adjusted — because now he is Josh Papalii. And there was a player for Parramatta who came in, and he was Junior Paulo.

[57:12] Or Junior Paulo, in fact, is how they used to say it — it's actually Junior Paulo, like, with a P. So there's all these things, and particularly with the Islanders, we don't know how to say their names correctly, so we anglicise them and adjust them. Now, there's less of that in the AFL. But to go back to the original question, new players — remember how you used to learn to spell words as a kid? — Yes, the old look-cover-write-check. — A list of names, you go back to that — list of names and numbers — you give me a team sheet with 22 names and numbers on it, Courtney, give me an hour, I'll

[57:44] be good to go. — Not a job for me, Liam, no, definitely not a job for me. I do know we've got people who listen and are interested in AFL and NRL, both of them, but I'm using your expertise — two questions. One, can the Suns make the finals, because we're Gold Coasters — and two, who's your dark horse for the year? — Which team, Suns to make finals? — Yes. — Suns have got a list talented enough to make finals. Damien Hardwick's had his feet under the desk as the senior

[58:14] coach — now, this is he's had a full off-season now, plus all of last season. Their list is good enough, the coaching staff is high quality enough — it's one of the hardest road trips in the AFL for visiting teams, they didn't lose a game at home last season. — Winning away, now, that's a major sticking point, a major hurdle — if they can overcome that, they are good enough to play finals this year. — OK, and I'll say they will. — All right, we'll hold you to that. Our dark horse for the competition,

[58:47] yeah, I think Brisbane's gonna — I think Brisbane gets back to the grand final. — Well, that's not a dark horse. — No, no, no, I'm just saying I think Brisbane is good enough to get back to the grand final — to give you a team that's a roughie you don't expect, that might shock some — the thing about the AFL is that it's a really even competition, except for the tail end of North Melbourne, West Coast and Richmond, who are all struggling at the moment.

[59:20] There's really — you wouldn't be surprised by many teams. But if I'm going to give you a team that I think will surprise, or get into finals that weren't there last year, I'll go with the Dockers — I think Fremantle, their midfield mix, the talent that they've got on their list and the direction they're heading in is the right one. So I'll give you a three-hour roughie. — OK, there you go. — Yeah, so to get back to what I was saying quickly about relating to running, that's my weekend. But the other takeaway from the week was, aside from sleep being important, I need to find

[59:53] someone — I managed to get, like, just short of a 20K run in on Sunday, and you told me this last week — find someone to run your long runs with, because my motivation is waning on these long runs, I'm finding it really hard, even if I put podcasts or music on, I'm really struggling to want to keep running. — Yeah, and I know you pretty well now, you get a lot out of talking to people. So if you could run with a group, 20K, easy enough, you

[01:00:23] wouldn't even notice you're running. And what's killing me about it too is I get on Strava afterwards and I see people have gone out running together down in Sydney, or whatever, mates of mine running together, and I just — I know that, stick me on the back of a group for 20Ks, sweet, happy days, 25Ks, great — even if I have to just listen for most of it. Running solo is hard for me, I find it really, really

[01:00:53] difficult. So yeah — you're a social runner. — I'm a social runner, you're a social — what about your week, mate? — Just running, just good, just knocking out some Ks, had a good session — we did a session at the Spit with Gold Coast Running Co this morning, and it was — you talked about last week, I think you were talking about — did you do a double Mona Fartlek? — Yeah, the double Mona Fartlek kind of blew up, I said that's a lot. — Yeah, well, the session we got thrown this morning was Mona

[01:01:24] Fartlek — yeah, two minutes rest into a ten-minute threshold. — Oh, wow. — So it was a — that's a big session. — That's a decent session, so yeah, I was running pretty conservative, but we had a good group, and that's, like you said, running with people — that's always my favourite. Morning, it's great stuff, you know, heaps of different levels, and everyone tries together — cheat code for people out there, if you're a solo runner, go and find somewhere to try running with people. How are you feeling — I talked a bit about 17 weeks out from the Gold Coast Marathon, how are you feeling?

[01:01:54] What, three weeks out — from what — of what are we, four weeks out from — tell them — kunanyi trail — well, funnily enough, that's my next thing I want to chat about. I've got up in front of us a course map, because — I haven't brought this up — we keep talking about, we're both going down to experience kunanyi, the Mountain Run. So for those listening, it's a trail race — there's multiple races there, I think there's a 67K — we're jumping in the Salomon Golden Trail Series race, which

[01:02:26] is 25K. — Oh my god, thank god. — However, unfortunately, in the middle of it, we're going up Mount Wellington — so at the back of Hobart there, we're going up Mount Wellington, it tops out at 1,215 metres, I'm seeing on the map — so, oh wow, first 12K, Liam, 1,360 vert. How's that? How do you feel about that? — That's horrible. — For context — for context, right —

[01:02:57] this is the first time Liam actually knows what I've — I said to Liam, let's go down, we'll do a podcast after and give you all our excuses. — That's gonna hurt. — He didn't know what he was getting himself into, and I've booked the flights and we're doing it. So first 12K, we're doing 1,360 metres of elevation, and it's on trail — I do know, I'm pretty sure the track we go up, you go over a little bit of rock, and it's a little bit technical. So for context, the biggest

[01:03:31] trail run, vert-wise, I reckon I've done in the last 12 to 18 months — no, well, I've done UTA, but recently, in training for this, I've done that 17K goat loop out at Nerang, which you get about 700 metres of elevation across the 17K. So I'm basically going to be doing double that, in 5K less distance. The difference, though, with this one, is it's a proper mountain — so even in the Blue Mountains, you know, you're running up,

[01:04:04] you're up, you're already up on the — you're already up at the elevation, right — so you're running kind of like a maximum, maybe 120 metres of vert at a time, and then down, then up, then down, then up, I think, in that one. — How's this going to be different? — Well, this is literally, you're just going to continue to keep running up for 1,200 — and except for a couple of downhills, that's the first 12K — you're — is that harder? — Well, you're gonna go uphill the whole time, so you see what I'm saying — if you're on any of those races, or if you're doing the Nerang loop, maybe you're

[01:04:36] running three minutes uphill max before you go down, you're just going to be running continuously uphill for, I don't know what, the first — what it will take. — What you're saying is I'm going to be running — I'm going to be walking continuously. — You're going to have a great time, it's a beautiful place. — It's a beautiful place, I'm just looking at the average times down there — it says the average runner's time for that first 12Ks is going to be four hours. — Yeah, four hours, Courtney. — I didn't say it was gonna be easy, I said it'd be a nice

[01:05:08] place — a nice place to run, take in the scenery. — What are you gonna try and finish this in, out of curiosity? — I still haven't looked at it — how I'd go about it, is I'd look at the results, who won last year — actually, Tate — my mate Tate Hertz won it last year, so I'd look at his time and think, OK, well, I knew how fit he was last year, so I'd probably give myself, you know, maybe five minutes behind him or whatever, and work off a bit of a split like that. But I'm just going, like you, it's a — it's a course.

[01:05:39] I have to experience it. So that's why I'm so excited to go and run it. I'll tell you what, the week before we do this — because we're going to do a podcast down there as part of the event, yeah, after the race, yes — but the week before, we need to agree, can this be the first edition of Courtney vs Liam? — Agreed, yeah. Let's have a proper look at the course, I'll work out a goal time for myself, a realistic goal time for myself, we'll work out a realistic goal time. The good thing, too, is — so Pete, who's the marketing manager, Salomon —

[01:06:12] He's looking at trying to run that three-hour mark at the Gold Coast Marathon too. — Oh, nice. — So you and him, me and Pete — there's a battle. — Oh, you reckon I've got to race Pete? — You're racing Pete — so not only are you going to race me on handicap, you've got a head-to-head competition going on as well. — I'm just bringing up Pete from Salomon here, I'm just going to eyeball him. — So what's his surname, can you say Pete's surname? — You don't want to say Pete's surname? OK, I'll find you, Pete, I'll find you. Continue, Courtney, as you were. I'm going to look up Pete from

[01:06:42] Salomon. — Peter, you're looking for me. — So, some of the other — yeah, I mean, a bit about the race, what I've been told — I had a chat to the race organiser, Lincoln, the other day, and he was saying — because I was like, well, what's the course like, give me some idea of what we're going to be facing — how would you describe it — not so much four seasons in one day, but four different types of terrain in one day. So dry forest,

[01:07:13] then you're up through what they call the Organ Pipes, which is all that shale-y, rocky terrain — you don't see that, like, you see Cascade in Tasmania as well — you'll go up through there, then you're up through the stone, then you go up through the water supply station, which I have no idea what that means, but I'm sure the locals down there know exactly what we're talking about. But it's going to be hard — like I said, once you're up there, it's a beautiful place to run. I've done the uphill trail before.

[01:07:43] I'm looking forward to going and racing it. — I found Pete, I know my enemy now. — You've worked it out, yeah, so I've already told Pete, it's a head-to-head. Pete looks like he's the real deal, I'm just having a look at him. — I'll tell you one thing, you know he's going to be decked out head to toe. — You bet. — We'd better get you sorted up in the right gear. — Yeah, yeah. — Oh, this is going to be — no, I actually — so you've got two competitions, is what I'm telling you.

[01:08:13] Yeah, I'm racing you, and I'm racing on handicap, and head-to-head. I am seriously excited about this, because — to go over old ground, pardon the pun — running travel is a booming industry, it's probably already boomed, but I love the idea. I've been to Hobart before, I've done — what have you done there? — Three Capes — Three Capes Track, I did that. We walked it with my wife, it's just — sleeping in the cabins,

[01:08:43] yeah, did that, amazing, couldn't recommend that enough. We explored Hobart for a little bit, we did a walk up — we didn't go all the way up to the top of Mount Wellington, but we did a bit of a walk around there — my wife was actually pregnant at the time, so we didn't do too much. But I haven't — and I've actually done some footy games at Bellerive in Tassie as well, down in Hobart, so I've caught some footy down there, but I've never explored the trails, and we've talked about the idea of doing the Overland Track, which goes right through the heart of

[01:09:15] Tasmania as well. But the idea of getting to go down there and experience it in a race format, because again — race weekends of any kind, the vibe is unbeatable. It is unbeatable, the vibe you get around a race weekend. Plus, the one thing that still draws me more than the competition or anything else to trail races, and the way I still pick them, is — unless you ran this, you're not going to get to see all that. Yeah.

[01:09:45] And you get to see this in a day — you know, you can go hiking and see it over multiple days, but why not run — you get it done faster, and then you get to go to the pub and have a beer after — because I think we're all finishing, I'm pretty sure, down near the Cascade Brewery. — The Cascade Brewery, amazing spot. — And yeah, again, then it's all the stuff that comes afterwards — then it's the sharing of experiences and the telling of stories. And you told us some stories from your trip to Mauritius last week, and I know you didn't race, but

[01:10:17] just by going over there and course-checking, you had all these amazing stories to tell us. We're going to be down there — so the plan will be, down, race, and soon enough after the race we'll get on the pod as well, so we know who won, and we'll have a good debrief about the race and talk about the experiences down there. — Maybe that's the deal — whoever finishes first out of me and Pete gets to host the podcast. — So Pete beats me, he's in the chair. — He's in the chair, he's in the chair.

[01:10:47] No, no, we'll have everyone involved, but — yeah, that's the plan, and then we'll go out for the night, have a dinner, and we'll be back on the Gold Coast. Can I — other thing as well, you need to help me — I want to get your experience and advice on how to film it. — Yep. — Because I want to be able to share, because you do an amazing job — the way you film and edit your running experience is awesome, I don't want to copy you. — You can copy — — but I've also — I also heard you last week — — No — — 'cause we talked a bit about

[01:11:17] the sameness of all the running content that's coming out. — Well, what's going to be your point of — I don't know — name — that would enable me to know what camera to give you — maybe it's the fact that it's really slow. Did you ever watch any slow TV? This was a phenomenon that came out of Scandinavia years ago — these TV channels that would just be, like, there's a boat trip that takes five days, and it was just a camera fixed on this boat travelling up a fjord.

[01:11:47] It's called slow TV — they did one of a train journey once. — Yeah, maybe I could do slow running? — YouTube hiking — have you ever watched YouTube hiking, where they just strap — it's like four hours of just watching someone hike, listening to the noise. — Not for me, but there's a lot of people who watch that now. — We're going to get you sorted with the camera, that's all fine — but yeah, we're looking forward to that, it's going to be a good day, and it'll be our first — our first adventure, getting out of the Courtney Atkinson studio. — So I've got one more — I've got a bit of

[01:12:21] gear this week that I saw pop up, it was shared by Jack, thank you, Liam — and this is — I like this — so, they're sunnies, and this is not a new thing, in sunnies — but this is literally like, you know, in swimming goggles, where they show your pace, your heart rate and all that, they've put it into a pair of sunnies. They're called ENGO. — What's that, how would we pronounce that? — Engos, or —

[01:12:52] Engos, Engos — new running technology. Now, I want to try these. So, pretty much, you put them on, it's going to show you your time, your pace, your beats per minute, looking inside your glasses — so instead of looking down at your watch the whole time — it's like your car's dash display. — 100%, so this is like anybody that's got a dash display, where the speed and everything jumps up on your windshield, so you're not having to look down at the dash — this is going to give you that in sunglasses. Connects with Garmin, Apple, Suunto, Android.

[01:13:23] This is something I would like to try, I mean, they're a bit ugly, but — sure, but the technology is what matters, and I reckon they'll figure out ways to make them better-looking. And then you can sync it straight up to Strava after. I mean, I've seen the goggles do this in the pool, and I'm sure maybe other brands have done this previously — this is the first time I've seen it in a running store. So — that's cool, you don't normally run in sunnies, though, do you? — I don't, but — you're not a sunnies runner. — I would, if you were training, if you're doing a tempo run, for example — yeah, I think these

[01:13:55] would be really good, yeah, so you can just, without worrying about your watch and that type of thing, you can run down the road, keep your heart rate in check, know what pace you're at. So this one's getting the green tick. — Gets the green tick. All right, we're gonna wrap things up. — Yep, quickly, and I know as soon as somebody hears me say that they stop the episode — but listen to the end, because you all deserve it, we've tried to share as much of the feedback as we get — we just try and share as many of the messages and respond to any of the questions we get, particularly the ones you like.

[01:14:25] Courtney, you're asking for a bit of advice, thank you — because we are, what are we, 20 — this is episode 25, so we're coming up on six months on this journey, and we are still enjoying it as much as when we started. I think we've got a better idea of what we're doing every week from when we started, but there's still so much blue sky in front of us in terms of what we want to do and things we want to start trying on the podcast. We're about to go away on the first little adventure for the pod, which is going to be a lot of fun, and Salomon taking us down to

[01:14:56] kunanyi. The Golden Trail Series is going to be awesome. So we can't wait for that — but keep getting behind this, keep sharing it with your friends, the running community, the boom is continuing to grow — Harry Styles is on board now, I'm sure he's listening to the pod, so share that, Harry. But to anybody out there, if you're listening for the first time, subscribe on Spotify — the subscriber numbers, I only just checked them the other day, they're going nuts, their subscriber numbers are really coming along, which is huge, because that's what helps us jump up on the charts. If you leave comments, if you share with friends, all that sort of

[01:15:26] stuff, we know people are listening, we know we're not just talking to ourselves. — No, no, we thought we were, in the beginning, but — yeah, so, and also just a reminder, Race the Sun, Red Bull Race the Sun — if that sounded interesting at the beginning of this, we'll share the links, get a team together, be quick — — Yeah, you will, you will have to be quick to get in, it's definitely limited. — Exactly, you've got to be quick to get in, you've got to be quick to run it too. — Get your friends? — No, you don't have to be quick to run it, all are welcome, we want a variety. — Yeah, see, we'll see you next week.