EP 21 - WHAT SPORT WILL HELP YOU LIVE LONGEST?

[00:00] EP21, In The Beginning, Courtney. Another week's come around quick. Another week — these weeks are flying by for me at the moment. Yeah, well, new job. Yeah, got so much going on, busy. Do you know what I'm missing? Are you busy or just — yeah, just, I was thinking about this as I was driving here. My days are full now. They start early and they seem to finish at the same time as they did previously, because I used to work the afternoon shift. I would spend all day thinking about that and I would say no to doing things because I'd have to

[00:31] go to work in the first twelve hours of the day. Now that my work day is kind of done by 10:30, all these people are asking me to do things and I'm saying yes to them. And then you've got all day to do them, and then it still gets to 8:00 at night and I'm like, what happened? And I'm getting — you're giving me extra stuff. No, no, no, this is extra stuff for me — this is my passion, Courtney.

[01:01] OK, OK, we've got lots to get through today. Let's just jump straight in, because we've got some feedback and there's a story that you need to hear — the In The Beginning family needs to hear about too. Now, Jordan Barter — who previously told us about the race that he and his dad used to do, where you run around the horse tracks, jump on a train to the next horse track, run around that one, jump on a train to the next track — that happened in Sydney. Anyway, I know Jordan from Sydney, but he and his cousin Maddie Jenkins, they're

[01:31] big fans of the podcast, and Jordan's jumped back on and wanted to share — it's a great story, so bear with me. This is from Jordan: "Back when Strava was just starting to take off, about 12 years ago, my mates and I went all in setting up a bunch of segments around Malabar Headland. For those of you in Sydney, it's south of Maroubra on the coast there. This was before they built any fancy graded footpaths, and you'd never see another soul out there." Now, to jump off Jordan's story for a moment, that headland's got this beautiful

[02:02] boardwalk — duck boards, ever since COVID — popular as ever. It's an incredible running spot, that coastal run, beautiful spot. You end up down at La Perouse, Bare Island there, it's awesome. You run through the golf courses, it's great. Anyway, back to Jordan's story: "Fast forward five years and these segments had turned into a friendly but very serious competition between us. One day I was out running the headland when some random bloke absolutely blitzed past me. I figured he was just showing off, because you know, when you see another runner you naturally crank it up to Olympic level."

[02:33] "He looked familiar, but I didn't think much of it. Later that night I was just chilling at home when my phone started buzzing like crazy. I glanced down and the screen was absolutely flooded with Strava notifications." Oh, I know where this is going. "Courtney Atkinson stole your segment. Courtney Atkinson stole your segment. Courtney Atkinson stole your segment. At first," Jordan goes on to say, "I was in denial — who the hell is Courtney Atkinson and why is he ruining my life? Then it hit me: Courtney Atkinson, the Olympian, the actual real-life

[03:05] professional endurance machine who's sponsored by Red Bull. I sat there staring at my phone, feeling like a child who'd just had their ice cream stolen by Usain Bolt. The worst part? The worst part — there was no getting those segments back. Ever. We were just a couple of weekend warriors going up against the guy who literally made a career out of being faster than other people. To this day, none of us ever got those segments back — I'm pretty sure Courtney still has most of them. He probably doesn't even remember. But we do. Oh, we do.

[03:35] Oh — Jordan, I'm sorry mate, but you know what, I consider myself — I'm not Strava sniping, I'm not purposely going there, that is my local. When I'm in Sydney, I try and stay at Coogee, I run down to Malabar Headland, that's where I do my efforts. And I don't know if they — I'd actually be interested to know whether they like the fact that the duck boards went in after COVID, because now the trail's no longer a trail, you're literally running

[04:05] on springboards around the whole thing. It's still a beautiful run, but I loved it when it was just pure trail, and you'd fling around a corner and if you're going that quick and then someone just pops up in front of you, you're dodging them. I love the idea that he thought when you went past him that time that you were racing him — that's what I love, is now he's looked at you as, but as you're splitting the pass, don't be that guy. He's like, "I own the segment, don't be that guy." I created — I don't just own these segments, I created these segments and

[04:37] you're just telling him off. Yeah, well, I'm sorry Jordan, but I'll be back down this year — I'm sure someone's probably taken them off me by now. Oh, I've got no doubt there'd be people out there. Speaking of segment sniping, just quickly — a fella by the name of Paddy McNamara, if you're a runner in the Sydney area who's had any injury issues, you might have visited Paddy. He's part of The Running Room physio, which is the same team that supported Nedd Brockman through his various attempts. Paddy, great runner, great fella, great physio, currently

[05:09] taking — he's actually an ASICS ambassador as well, but he's taking some time off. He and his partner are travelling around Australia. Oh, how good. And he is segment sniping — he's saying it's his one-man mission to steal segments, steal crowns, all around this country. So he's obviously got Premium and he's looking at the heat maps, and he's going out on the trails — you've been down in Tassie and he's out there hunting segments, going to check it out, see what he's picking off. Yeah. I promise he's not doing them on the bike — he can actually run quite well, this young man.

[05:40] It's all about Jordan not recognising me as I go past — that's fine, I'm more than happy not to be recognised. But we've got to — I want to have a discussion about Hedges Avenue. For those who don't know, on the Gold Coast, Hedges Avenue is Millionaires' Row. It's a single-lane road which is one-way, it has one lane for cars, one lane which is probably, what, a metre and a half wide for bikes, running between Miami and Broadbeach. Yep. And then a footpath which

[06:11] is literally off the road, which I'd say is about sixty centimetres wide. Yeah, yeah, in parts it — for the most part, but I know what you mean, it gets pretty tight. And so you've got cars, runners and bikes all fitting down there. And this week there was an Instagram post — I suppose put out by the Gold Coast Bulletin, but it's an old post — that's caused a bit of commotion down here. Did you talk about this on the radio? Yeah, we did. Oh, you did? Yeah, we did — we asked Tom Tate, the mayor of Gold Coast, about it.

[06:43] So, sorry, tell us — well, better tell everyone what we're talking about first. So this — this is basically a video of a runner going in one direction, running in the bike path — should be said, the runner going in the bike path, he is in the bike path — and two cyclists going the opposite way in the bike path. Yep. And basically this runner makes the decision that he's not going to move, so he shirt-fronts — he basically puts his bumper bars up, braces with his forearms, knocks over the first

[07:14] cyclist, which in turn knocks over the second cyclist, and keeps on trotting, looking back. Yeah, he's — now this is the debate, right — did he just stand his ground, or did he purposely put a shoulder in? Now what was interesting to me in this clip, before you tell me what our mayor said — what's interesting in this clip is the way it's been cut. What do you mean? So it goes for five seconds — they don't actually show you whether he came off the footpath

[07:47] onto the road and then this happened — they cut it as he's already in that space. Yeah. And the worst part of this whole situation is he doesn't stop to check on the cyclists, even after whatever's happened — whether there's a graze, you know, he just keeps running, which is a problem too. I agree. But again, they didn't show what happened after he quickly ran off screen — did he then decide — you know, so it's all up to interpretation. But what did the good mayor have to say?

[08:17] Tom Tate, the mayor of the Gold Coast, basically didn't acknowledge the video but said the intention is for a wider Oceanway to be built in that section of Hedges. They can't — they're not going to go around the front of the houses, even though it's not private land. So at the moment, if you don't know the area, the houses on the beach essentially have exclusive beach frontage — it's public land, but there's nothing between the beach and their homes. And in sections of the Gold

[08:49] Coast, the Oceanway — the walkway, the footpath — has been built in front of the homes. But because these are the high-flyers who own the homes in this area, who carry a lot of influence, hold a lot of sway, and have the power to say "we don't really want a footpath going in front of our houses" — the footpath's not going to go there, it's going to go around onto Hedges. So it's not a true Oceanway in the sense that it's diverted back onto the road. So Tom's basically said that's where the

[09:20] footpath will go. Yep. But his reasoning is because if they put it on the beach side of those houses, Mother Nature will have its way with it. Yeah, right. Well, we'll leave that debate out of it. There'll be runners on the Gold Coast really interested in that response — if you missed it, you missed your radio show, because I hadn't heard that. Yeah, but basically the footpath will never allow you to run with the beach on your left the whole way down the coast. Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think they just need a solution to fix the congestion.

[09:50] Congestion of the — yeah, the traffic. But what I was getting at with this one — you know, people disagree, you know, it was the rider's fault, run — it's just the old scenario of whose fault it is, and you know, no one's probably going to know. Like I said, it's a very chopped-up clip. However, no one should run off after an accident — no, let's make that clear too, you should at least go and check, even if you've done the wrong or right thing, whatever it is. What got me though is if you've watched the clip, there's a young girl walking about five metres behind all this

[10:20] and does not even flinch. So she's on the footpath. But I really watched this about 138 times, not watching the accident, watching this girl — she's walking, and you think if there were two cyclists five metres in front of you and they fell on the ground, you'd at least turn your head. You'd — I would probably put in a few steps to try and catch them, or whatever it is, that's just a natural reaction. This young girl did not even

[10:51] move. She just kept walking. It got me thinking, if she's in the lane and someone's riding up behind her and had the same situation, she's not going to get out of the way, you know? This is why it becomes so dangerous. I have an enduring memory — I don't remember how or why, I think it must have been my dad — explaining to me that if I ever found myself on a road without a shoulder, I should always be walking towards the traffic.

[11:22] You should always be walking essentially head-on to the traffic so you can see it coming. Yep, and move accordingly. And I watched that video, and going back to who's to blame, the edit, all the rest of it — that's the pedestrian's responsibility, that is that runner's responsibility to get out of the way of the bike lane. He's doing the right thing in that he's running into the traffic, against the traffic, so he can see it coming. But that is a bike lane, right? In the same way that if a car

[11:52] swerved into a bike lane and caused the accident, it's the car's fault. There are very few spaces created on the coast specifically designed for cyclists. Not to side with the cyclists against the runners here, but I'd be filthy if I was that cyclist — that runner, whether he braced or aggressively went into it, shouldn't have been there. So if it was the runner, or a walker, and a car — would the car be required at least to

[12:23] take action? I would expect the car to avoid. Yep. So would you then expect the quicker machine, the bike, to be the one to take action? Well, the difference being that the car — if you're driving the car, you have a protective shell, you are literally a weapon. Right. And you could argue the same about those cyclists. But at the same time, the runner has moved into the cyclists' space. Yes. It's not as though those

[12:54] cyclists were travelling at a speed that he couldn't avoid them. And guess what — if you're running, and for a moment, because maybe you mentioned that pedestrian in the video — feels like we're discussing the JFK assassination — but maybe for a moment, if that girl in the video is the reason he came onto the cyclists' path because he didn't want to run up the back of her, guess what, you slow down. Yeah, you slow down to a walk so you can get around her or wait

[13:24] till the cyclists go past. It is — that is not an acceptable action to take, to bumper-bar, to shirt-front somebody coming towards you on a bike. It's just not cricket. That is not fair and reasonable. But it goes back to many episodes ago, you and I discussed the idea that maybe we'd reached a tipping point with running — cyclists used to be public enemy number one. This might be just another example of how, in certain areas where running is overcrowded, people who don't

[13:54] run might be sick of runners. Yeah, I probably didn't want to run around down Hedges last week. No, no. But we'll put that in the notes and let us have a look, and let us know what you think. The next one — have you seen this, around these runners running for free burritos? How far would you run for a free burrito per week, for a year?

[14:25] How far would you run for that? So explain to me the rules — if I run, I get a free burrito every week if I hit a certain distance? No — if you are the person who can run the most distance on a particular Strava segment, if you become the local legend for that month, we will give you — do you know this company in the States, Chipotle? Mm-hmm. Is that because you didn't think you'd pronounce it right? 100%, yeah. Do you know this?

[14:58] I'm learning this each week, Liam. I know, I know when to delegate across the table — as transparent as glass, they're caught. Yeah, yeah, yeah. OK, so if you can win, run the most on this segment for the month, you get a free burrito for the rest of the year, each week. I'm not even starting this challenge. You're not starting this challenge because — and I'll tell you why — because if it gets down to pure athletic ability,

[15:32] there's going to be better runners than me. And if it's a choice between winning a free burrito and boring myself to death on the same segment for a month, versus buying my burrito for maybe 15 bucks at Zambrero's and getting to diversify my running for the month, it's a pretty easy choice for me. Well, these Strava challenges have gone to the next level — they put them on in all different cities, but this particular showdown between two runners in — where are

[16:02] we, Tempe? Tempe, Colorado. They have run more than 700 miles each. What's that in kilometres? Down a 354-metre section — it's over 1000 kilometres, done up and down a 354-metre stretch. What got me too was, it doesn't count both ways. What do you mean? So the segment is start to finish,

[16:34] so then you've got to go back — you've got to go back. And to be clear, this is for — two free burritos for the year, valued at 719 US dollars. I'm still not doing it. I'm still not doing it, hell no. This even got so big someone flew in and live-streamed it. But this — this comes back to the idea of runner rewards. We talked a bit about this last

[17:06] week when we went off on the tangent of what something more than a medal or a T-shirt could offer up at the end of the runs. Look, I'll be honest, I'd rather get 52 free burritos than a medal — I'd rather, if that was what was on offer, if we finished the Gold Coast Marathon this year, I'd be right on board. But I'm not running 1000 kilometres for 52 burritos. I'm out on

[17:38] that. Jumping ahead — you know, we're talking about last week what you get at the end of the race, race medals and all of that — this is next level. Sally, who's already written into the podcast a couple of times, involved with the Goldie Marathon — she told us that her PB in the 10K, she ran in Newtons, which is the old-school shoe that you've got in your shoe museum out in

[18:08] the garage. Sally wrote in off the back of last week's discussion about marathon mementos. I ran into her up in the forest on Sunday. Oh, right. Yep, she was listening to us. She left an amazing comment — she's run the Nagoya Marathon, which is in Japan. Do you know much about the Nagoya Marathon? I've been to Nagoya, don't know much about the marathon. Right, well, she left this — I'm bringing it up on my phone because I want to get it right. So she's run the Nagoya Women's Marathon, and she said this was the best finishing gift

[18:41] she has ever received. It was a Tiffany necklace, presented by a man in a tuxedo — just classy, and she still wears it. And this is the bit I like about it, and this is, if you're a race organiser, the key part of Sally's comment, and I think the attitude towards runners as well — she said she still wears it, and it's like she's part of a secret sisterhood when she spots other women wearing one.

[19:13] So that right there, in a sense, is what run clubs are all about — why people enter marathons and why they then wear the shirts and why they still wear the caps when they run, and why people do the Noosa Triathlon — because yes, it's about letting people know that you've done it, but it's also about that camaraderie and feeling like you're part of a club. Yeah. And the specialness — to go back to Sally's example of a Tiffany necklace — I did a bit of research on the Nagoya Marathon, because when I

[19:44] heard they gave out — it was tuxedo guys, how many do they give? When I looked it up, and there were people wearing tuxedos handing out Tiffany necklaces, I thought Sally might be exaggerating, but it's true — they've given out necklaces. They've also obviously got a bit more popular because they stopped giving out necklaces and started giving out pendants, almost like charms you see on charm bracelets — still Tiffany, still a really special keepsake tied to the event. This year it's a Baccarat tumbler.

[20:16] Now, Baccarat is that deluxe homewares brand, really, really nice. So when you say tumbler, like a coffee cup? Yeah. But I imagine it's going to be — and it's in this beautiful red box — I imagine it's going to be like your classic drink-water-out-of glass tumbler, a tumbler glass that'll have Nagoya Marathon branding on it. Interestingly, how much is it? I'm glad you asked — ¥17,500. About 180 bucks.

[20:50] Good value, about 180 bucks. That's great, for this year — now I don't know what it was the year Sally entered and got herself a Tiffany necklace. Yep. But still, you're getting — I talked about this idea a bit more with David Rhodes, former president of North Burleigh Surf Club, who's in charge of Paddle Australia now. Yeah, and he's also an Olympian — he also went to the Olympics for

[21:20] the K2/K4 kayaking. He battles a boat very well. But we talked about this idea that if race organisers were to absorb the cost of a high-end race prize, souvenir, whatever you want to call it, and it doesn't add anything onto the race cost — which for most races these days is already exorbitantly high — you could really

[21:51] plant a flag with a physical product that people want to use for the next 12 months, which then advertises your race for free and creates that 'we're part of a special club' mentality. Yeah, this blew me away, because I had so many questions when I ran into Sally on the weekend — is it a special gift, were you invited, what is it? But there you go, they're still doing it. So maybe Nagoya

[22:23] should be on the card. I will say, if anybody out there — I tried to Google what some other finisher prizes are for other races around the world, but the problem is you just end up at the merch shop, it directs you to the jackets or the T-shirts or whatever you can buy. But if anyone out there has run a race and got a particularly significant or special finisher gift — not something you had to buy, but something you got presented with at the finish line — that's worth shouting out. I don't want a T-shirt, for the most part,

[22:53] unless it's a truly special item of clothing, but unique — something that whenever you use it or look at it, it clicks. Unless it's a coffee cup from a reputable, good brand — there you go. I know, not just Chinese plastic, no thanks, it's got to be special. Yeah, got to be special. Anyway — shout out Sally, and shout out the Nagoya Marathon. Doesn't it appear to have used to be a women's-only event? I don't think it is anymore by the looks of it. OK, you talked about her feeling of being part of a community there, and we've been talking about,

[23:25] you know, last week, about what we can do for our community — the In The Beginning podcast. Now, I want to shut something down this week, but before I do — it's got out of hand. We had Benny Wilders, my running partner and doctor, he said we should just call it 'ITB'. That's not bad, I don't mind — 'In The Beginning, ITB' I said to him. Mate, the one problem — and we didn't realise this at the time we just happened to shorten our show's name — is that ITB stands for

[23:56] iliotibial band, and that's a running injury. Get injured, get sore — is that the reason you want to shut it down, or did something else happen? No, no, no, no, something else happened. Do you want to get to that? No, no, this way — OK, hang on, hang on. Brett Quayle suggested the peace symbol, we got Ryan Kelso's bit with the shakas — yeah, that feels like cultural appropriation. And Brett, last week, about giving

[24:26] the finger — so this happened to me this morning. Someone gave me the finger. 5:10, driving out to the forest in my car, on the Parkway out the back here, and a grey Hilux is driving next to me and kind of speeds up. Didn't think too much of it, pulled in behind him, and then suddenly out the window — copped the bird. And a hard bird too, like, really? First thing I thought was, do I know

[24:57] this guy? He's speeding up to initiate something — I quickly realised, no, I don't think that was it. So I kept driving up through the big roundabout at Currumbin, and he's pulled in front of me by this stage, and I'm just — it's so early in the morning, I was heading out to the bush. Anyway, then he's pulled up, and this has now turned into a bit of serious, well, semi-serious road rage. Oh, really? Pulled up in front of me, slowed down, and then quickly zoomed off

[25:31] down Nelson's Road and then wound down the window and gave it to me again. What? What was his — what? Well, that's what I can't work out, mate. Where did — I'm now thinking, the only thing I can think of, though, I don't want to say I'm always in the right here — is he maybe just, is he maybe a run influencer? He's either one of two things — he's either going hard at us to initiate this finger, which has made me realise we've got to shut this down. Yeah, yeah, we can't do that. But secondly, I was

[26:01] this got me self-conscious, going, what did I actually do wrong? Like, maybe at that time of morning, when you're just a bit daydreaming, did I slightly cross the roundabout double line in front of him? Was I in the fast lane going the speed limit instead of getting to the job site? I don't know, I don't know. True story, this morning. But what's interesting

[26:31] with that type of, let's call it, road rage or road aggression, is I actually still don't know what I did. For 90% of people, they're going to sit there going, I don't understand what I've done — if I knew what I did wrong, I'd take accountability. The lesson I've got for those of you out there who might find yourself in this situation: you never know what's going on in someone else's car. He might have just had a hard time from his wife or girlfriend as he left the house this morning, who knows. You can't begin to

[27:01] understand what might be going on in someone else's life, so don't try. I agree with you, though — I think we ought to definitely shut down the flipping-the-bird thing, and I think for now we let go of attempting to come up with an ITB running greeting. What I'd like is just to say, 'Hey Liam, listen' — great, let's go with that instead. 'Courtney, I'm listening, how you doing?' Yeah, we'll have a chat. Alright, brilliant. Have we got any other loose ends we need to clean up from last week?

[27:31] Well, I was kind of jumping ahead of where I wanted to be. So what do you — want to go back to? I do have something — while you find what you want to go back to, you put up a reel of my — what do we call it — my 'lungs are a toilet' analogy. Oh yes, the anti-nasal-strip campaign, you then went on to compare your lungs to a toilet system. Yeah, I've had some feedback. There's been a lot of feedback.

[28:03] After I shared that, a friend of mine, Farah, who's a doctor — she's a cardiologist — she just sent back a melting-face emoji. I laughed and said, is this medically accurate, what I've said here? She said no. And she left it for a couple of days, but she wrote back to me today, and I want to share this with everybody, because I don't

[28:35] proclaim to be a medical professional, I was having a bit of fun when I compared your lungs to a toilet. And I do want to share this — I did put a disclaimer on the end, there is no science backing this. And what I'll say here, even though I'm about to share how Farah has explained it to me — if you have any serious medical questions, consult your own medical professional. So Farah, who's a cardiologist, said, let me explain why nose breathing can help. Essentially, the lungs are much

[29:06] more complex than just being sacks of air, which is what I was saying — there are millions of alveoli, little air sacs where gas exchange happens, oxygenation, that's what puts the oxygen into your blood. You'd imagine you want to keep those open for as long as possible. Breathing is all physics and pressure differences. Now, when she talks about the nose — breathing through the nose helps

[29:38] humidify and filter the air. It slows airflow, which increases the time for gas exchange to happen in those little air sacs. It enables increased lung capacity by increasing the chance of diaphragmatic breathing, which increases your total lung capacity. And apparently your nose also produces nitric oxide, which helps dilate the blood vessels, relax the airways, to facilitate more effective gas exchange. So basically, medically speaking, nasal breathing can do lots for your

[30:13] breathing, for your aerobic capacity — in the words of any study I've ever seen, 'may be more effective.' There's some supporting evidence there, from an MD, that says it may be more effective. To follow up Farah's point with some of my non-medical thoughts as well — I don't see many people at the Olympics running with nasal strips. And if they were that good, wouldn't Kipchoge be using them?

[30:50] Yeah, yeah, I have seen elite athletes with nasal strips. I know we're kidding, but — so maybe we should strip that off our page? No, no, no, leave it, leave it, absolutely leave it. My point, I think the underlying point of this, is if you're a runner of my level, there's a lot of other things you could do before you go and invest in nasal strips. There we go, let's move on to the next topic — let's stay on this medical stuff for the moment.

[31:20] I'm very interested in this next topic at my age. And this information is backed by the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Jesus, where have you been? Well, I don't know if we should trust them at the moment either, but have a listen to this one — predict how long you're going to live by the sports you play. So recently scientists discovered that the sports you play have a huge connection on

[31:50] how long you're going to live. Football players must not live the longest — yeah, they're not on the list. So in fifth place, extending someone's life 3.4 years, is actually swimming. In fourth place, they found biking and cycling actually extend people's lives 3.8 years. In third place, they found that soccer actually increases someone's life 4.7 years. In second place is badminton, and they found that if you play badminton, your life is extended by 6.2 years.

[32:23] And in first place, the sport that makes you live the longest is actually tennis. So any kind of racket sport — pickleball, table tennis, anything with a racket — you actually live 9.7 years longer. What do you reckon, would you have guessed racket sports? No way, no way, no way. But if anybody did — do you have sciency stuff to talk about here? So, obviously that was Elon Musk

[32:55] talking on Rogan, but the information he's presenting has come from this article, which is a study they've done over in the States, one of their main government organisations. The only thing I'm saying is, because I know there are people who listen to the pod who really enjoy when you take off on your scientific rants about stuff — shout out Alex Rigby, high performance manager from the Suns, who I saw over the weekend down at the Ironman series — because I'm going to take this into a very non-scientific area. Before you do that, go on.

[33:26] So what I'm saying is, even when it comes to studies, things change, whatever, but at the moment this is a legit study that's come out and they've obviously gone to the ends of the earth to try and work this out. And the fact that badminton and tennis came out on top, and even soccer, surprised me — soccer going into older age, that feels like a recipe for disaster to me. But anyway, each to their own, we're runners here. Where do you think running came

[33:56] in? Oh, if you'd asked me to guess, I would have put it in the top five. It's not in the top five — it's in the top ten, just outside the top five, sixth. But that was interesting to me — I would have thought light jogging into older age would have had more benefit than something like racket sports. Can I

[34:26] give you the non-science thing, and then I'll bring it back? Bring it, bring it. It's amazing the things that stick in your brain over the years — there was a TV show, I'm not going to remember what it was called, but basically they used to conduct an experiment, an ABC thing, where they would take — can we trust that either? Well, no, it was a great show — they would take five-year-olds and six-year-olds and have them

[34:56] interact with retirement-home residents. It was an experiment around whether they could re-engage and reactivate these elderly people by having them engage regularly with these kids. Great show, really fun thing to watch with your kids when they're that age too, classic ABC feel-good stuff. But there was a scientific and medical element to the show, because they would run these elderly people

[35:29] through various tests at the beginning to judge how they were ageing, how their health was operating at that age. And it stuck in my brain, because one of the tests they said was incredibly telling for a person's overall health at that advanced stage is grip strength — they'd use a little machine that tests your grip strength. And when I hear you say badminton and tennis, both sports that require

[36:03] there's the movement, and there's the hand-eye coordination and brain function required to play those sports. Correct. But you're also holding something — there's the necessity to grip something for a duration of time, which, again, non-medical expertise, I'm just putting together in my head — logically that says grip strength equals good health at an advanced age, and playing these sports that require you to hold onto something is probably going to help. I've seen, again not completely scientific evidence, but around

[36:38] kettlebell walking — dude, farmers' carries, one of the elements of HYROX, one of the strength things for HYROX. 100%, yeah. Farmers' carries, doing that as a staple exercise right throughout your life because of that grip-strength idea, is probably one of the exercises you should include day to day, even as you age. Obviously the weight's going to drop, but just continually being able to do that — and they were saying how much weight you should be able to carry at what age to continue this process. But yes, regardless of

[37:10] the science, I reckon you're on the right track, there's enough evidence. But where I think they're connecting the dots with this tennis stuff, and where it makes sense to me now, is it's community — because you're always playing with someone. I didn't think about that. It's a game, and there's a social aspect to going to the club, yes — that third-space idea. So it's this nature of group mentality, you're playing the game, there's hand-eye coordination — it provides so much

[37:40] more than just the fitness aspect. It's got the fitness aspect, you've got to run around the court and be mobile and agile and all of that, but it adds in all those extra things, so that's what they're citing. And I wonder if the data around running for this sort of thing will improve as more people do it — but as Parkrun and these run clubs prevail, as that social aspect of running continues to grow and build, whereas previously it was thought of as

[38:13] a solo enterprise — now, like badminton and tennis, there's this club atmosphere around the running side of it. I wonder if that sees running climb into the top five if they did this test ten years, twenty years down the track. See, I've got this idea, the way I think about it, this is me personally — I know there's an endpoint to running for competition, in the sense that for myself, there's an endpoint where you'll eventually age out, you're going to decline quicker as you age. And I'm trying to make the most

[38:45] of the fact I've got a few more years left where I can go out there and really give it to myself and get something out of it. But then I go to the next step — if I can't get those things I've talked about, what I like getting out of running, still racing the young fellas, trying to improve my time — I don't think I'll ever stop jogging, because I love it for clearing my head. That's great. But I do think there's a deflection point where I'd go back to surfing a lot more, or go to tennis, and go and

[39:19] participate in a pure participation sport. At the moment I'm still driven by performance and competition — yes, I love it and enjoy it, but that's still what really drives me. I'd pivot to be more in a team sport, more around something where I don't have to compare myself to my old life and all those things. That's really interesting. Yeah, that's fascinating. I don't know where that tipping point is — hopefully not too soon.

[39:49] I hope not too soon, otherwise we're going to have to change this podcast. That's true, that's true. I feel like Courtney just announced the end of the podcast in advance. I get you, I get you. Well, I hope the competitive fire burns bright, because I like seeing you run fast and talking about it — it's not anytime soon anyway. And on to something a little bit more lighthearted — I've been listening to this one. What happened to your feet? What do you mean, these are my 4E's? Oh, they're 4E's, can I see them?

[40:19] Yeah, they're off for a lot of support, right? Wow, come on — are you in a fraternity? Are you insane? You could have hit somebody. What was that? I'm asking you a question — you know, fraternity? No. Are you Steve Jobs? Hold on a second, are you the billionaire owner of Apple Computers? No. OK, well in that case you've got no right to wear New Balance sneakers, ever. This is 'Crazy, Stupid, Love' — yeah, great film, you're onto it.

[40:49] But yeah, the question is how does a co-worker act when someone wears New Balance, or let's just say any dad-shoe brand, into the workplace. Does it depend on the workplace? I don't think solicitors and lawyers are the right people to rock in wearing those — I think there's a very narrow window where you can get away with wearing that style of shoe, or the Salomon

[41:20] trail shoes as casual wear, and I think that window of opportunity exists between 18 and 28. What do you wear going into the office? I go in wearing a pair of, I think they're Nike Dunks. Oh, so you're differentiating between — I'm talking about those nostalgic, crazy New Balance dad-shoe style things that look like they're a high-tech runner but are in fact just a

[41:51] fashion — you can see my face, because you're calling me out on it. Well, actually, you do wear them, you wear them everywhere. You wore them to a meeting the other day that we can't talk about — I just remembered looking at them at the time. No, that was a serious meeting, and I question why you're wearing those. I just can't pull them off. You can't pull them off? I think it's just me, I'm projecting, but I can't pull them off. OK, hey, speaking of which, just quickly, this wasn't on the run sheet, but have you seen Nike's

[42:22] latest campaign around the Air Jordans? No. I think — and I might be wrong on the dates here — I think they're celebrating, whenever the Nike Air Jordan was first released, which might have been 30, 40 years ago. I watched all those Jordan documentaries, but I'll never remember the details. Did you watch The Last Dance? Yes, absolutely, and the fictional

[42:52] movie was amazing, so good — but the story around the first pair of shoes, the NBA had regulations around colours and how much proportion of your shoes had to be white. Nike introduced the Air Jordan shoe, which had too much red on it, and the executives at Nike said — because he was facing a ban if he wore the shoes — Nike basically turned that into a commercial and said, let's just pay the fine, he'll play in the shoes which break the NBA's restrictions and

[43:26] we'll pay the fine. And it might have been the greatest piece of advertising, some good old guerrilla marketing. Exactly. Now what they're doing at the moment — there's a relatively new CEO in place at Nike, I believe, and we just spoke about this last week, the — how's your memory? Yeah, we spoke about this new CEO and the direction he's taken. What he's doing is instituting fines on-premise at Nike for anybody caught wearing Air Jordans.

[44:00] It's a stunt, yeah, it's a stunt. But so much so that the famous statue of Michael Jordan in the Air Jordan pose, they've attached a blackout box blocking the shoes on all the marketing, products and everything. Air Jordans are — it's a great piece of marketing, I'm going to have to go and check that out, I missed that one. Alright, we were talking about third spaces at the end of last week, having this other spot to go — this came to me from James, so, JAMES on IG, JEA double-LUM.

[44:39] I'm going to play it, and then we're going to have to translate it a bit after, but it's still worth playing. [Reel audio:] 'OK, until I learned about this ASICS store near Tokyo Station. It's a unique store where you can wear running shoes before buying them, or even try to break out of your comfort zone. You can also rent everything else you need, from T-shirts to pants, even tights. With the rental you get access to this.' OK, so it's a rental — I'm going to translate, because I've watched the reel a few times. It's a rental shoe and running ASICS store in Tokyo, just near Tokyo Station — you've

[45:12] gone to work, or rocked up as a tourist, whatever — you can go into this ASICS run store and literally pick out what you want to wear, get your shoes, get your socks, get your run shirt or singlet, go off on your run, sweat it out to your heart's content, come back to the showers — it's like a club room — and then at the end just drop all that dirty stuff in the pile and off you go. First reaction, what do you reckon?

[45:43] First reaction when you started explaining this — why would anybody want to rent clothes or shoes to run in, that was my first reaction. And then as you got to the end and said the idea of just being able to leave it — you get changed, have your shower, and instead of shoving your clothes and shoes into a bag and taking them with you, you leave. If you worked in the centre of Tokyo,

[46:13] would you use this service? If I was in Tokyo, yes, because of the premium on space. Tokyo's very different to here in Australia, space is at a premium, so you're probably not going to have room for a washing machine and dryer in your home. What's more, if you can have a third space in which

[46:43] you can reduce the need for certain cupboard space, for shoes and athletic wear, that's another space-saving exercise. So in Tokyo, yes; here, no, I wouldn't do that. I don't know if we're that culture — I don't know if we're a clothes-lending culture, a clothes-borrowing culture. Would you borrow clothes? No, but I also hadn't thought that much in depth about it, I just saw it and

[47:14] thought this is a really good idea — nice idea, the fact that you can just, and if you wanted to try some massive shoes, bang, because that's what we're talking about, in the end they're going to try and sell you something. By the way, this has just made me think of something I'm going to do at some point in the coming weeks. I found myself at a supermarket the other day having some lunch, and I looked across and there was a Foot Locker, and I was watching the woman talking to a

[47:45] middle-aged bloke who walked in there, and I was standing in front of the running shoe section, and I'm like, I wonder what that conversation is. So what I'm going to do at some point in the next couple of weeks is go into — I won't say the name of the store, the type of store — I'm going to go undercover, do a mystery shop. I'm going to say I'm new to running, what would you recommend, and I want to walk through the experience from the start of how I end up with the shoes they

[48:18] recommend. Now I'm not going to buy the shoes, but I want to see if I tell them I'm a beginner runner who's maybe just stopped playing footy and I'm running a bit, mostly on roads, what they end up recommending for me, because I'd be fascinated to know. OK, so stand by — you might have just given the idea away, though. I'll do it at a couple of different places, in fact I might do it at a few and see if I get different results from different shops — just don't go into Rebel Sport at Pacific Fair, you might run into Michael Shelley.

[48:51] And he's probably going to completely — yeah, he'll save you, well, he's also going to ruin the idea, because I'm assuming he'll give you pretty good advice, he'll just go, nobody serve him. Let's talk about our run weeks — what's been going on with you? Oh, what have I been up to? Well, I talked about going out to the forest this morning and getting heckled on the way out there in the car. Yes, actually, my legs

[49:22] are back up, I'm running well, everything's going alright, it's been hot as hell. What I do want to talk about is what went through my mind yesterday at our Tuesday fartlek at the Spit. So every week I've talked about a run at the Spit, we do some type of fartlek, it can be anywhere from 20 minutes upward. We had a small group that I was kind of the ringleader of, to a degree, but we all make up the sessions. Gold Coast Run Co have come back, and their late squad's coming back down and meeting us at the same time now, which is brilliant, because we've

[49:52] got a group to run with, it takes a bit of the decision-making out of our heads too, we just get there and do what Jacko says. Yesterday — I obviously haven't done a lot of hard work since being away. When I got there, there were a couple of guys, Giordo and a young fella from TSS who's obviously one of the quicker cross-country runners. I had a decision to make — when I'm doing this fartlek, do I go at my own pace, knowing I'll fall off the back of these guys and end up

[50:22] running by myself, and then on the way home — we go out and back — they'll catch me and maybe I can try and keep up, or whatever, because I'm trying to build at the moment and get this speed back? Or do I dig in and just go with them initially, get the speed, knowing I'll eventually drop off? What do you think I did? Knowing you, you went with

[50:52] them. Yeah, the reason I'm telling the story — yeah, I went with them and I blew. Yeah, the whole idea was to run out 12 minutes and you had to make it back. Jacko wasn't so defined as, you've got to do extra if you make it back, though he probably should have been. I didn't make it back, he didn't make it back either. But what happened was I ran out with him, feeling pretty comfy, and that all happened, but in my head there's that decision-making — if you're going to follow every bit of science to the letter, I shouldn't have done that, I should have run my own pace, got the most out of the session that way. So why did you buck the science?

[51:23] One, because I love competition, I want to run with people. The second reason, though, and this is the key reason I did it, is I'm focused on trying to get myself a bit quicker at the moment over shorter distances, and I figured having the pacing, getting out over that first, even if it was just for 10 to 15 minutes at the quicker leg speed and having help to do that, I was going to get more benefit out of it at this stage of my prep than I would from the whole session done at my own pace. And when was that session, two days

[51:53] ago, yesterday morning. Do you feel like, in hindsight, that's all good? In theory, yes. In hindsight, looking back on the session, do you feel like it actually benefited you? Yes. I didn't cook myself, I mean, I was pretty knackered yesterday, to be honest. Anyway, the next thing, one more thing — I want to give a massive shout-out to Country people. Jeez, that's a big

[52:24] shout-out. I want to shout out to the Rafa's Coffee at Beaudesert. So I was out yesterday, I've been doing a bit of scouting for a few things out in the hinterland, looking at a few different run things for Red Bull. At the moment, I pulled into Beaudesert, starving, hadn't had lunch, pulled into the coffee shop drive-through at Beaudesert. The difference between the service I get at Southport, across from TSS, and what I got at Beaudesert from the young ladies in there, is chalk

[52:57] and cheese. I felt like getting out of the car and having a good old chinwag with them. Amazing, doesn't surprise me. So shout-out to them. Well, you could compare it to the attitude you meet in fellow runners on the trails as opposed to the flats — you bump into people on the trails, for the most part, a small wave, a big wave. Well, you don't consider it participating that far out, but Jesus, it left an impression on me.

[53:27] Shout-out to country. What, what are you doing to me, mate? Have you ever had a DEXA scan? No, do you know what one is? I do. For those that don't know, playing along at home, a DEXA scan basically measures how fat you are — it's much more complex than that, but. Can I just ask — were you fat? According to my BMI, which

[53:58] body mass index has since proven to be not the most accurate form of measuring somebody's weight — I'm overweight. Really? According to my BMI. I don't understand it either, but at a guess, what do you think my body fat percentage is? The reason I'm doing this — I've signed up to an eight-week challenge with a bunch of the

[54:29] boys from down south who train in Currumbin Alley, a lot of them are surfers. It's run by Johnny Gannon, a personal trainer who used to train Taj Burrow on the WSL for years, has a great reputation. I've never met John, but I've signed up to his challenge along with all these other guys, and part of the start of it is you go and get a DEXA scan so you have a point of comparison by the end of the eight-week challenge. He's got strength and conditioning programmes tied in, but also the big thing for me is

[55:01] the nutrition side of things — being really conscious about what you're eating and how. Does he give you a protocol? There's a nutrition element to it too, some advice, some calorie-counting elements, all provided, which is great. But again, you get the DEXA scan at the start, and — when's the end, eight weeks? So just before Kunanyi — yeah, we should say, the Salomon Golden Trail Kunanyi run. That's what we're going to run. I'll hopefully

[55:34] be in decent shape by then. That's when this eight-week challenge wraps up, with the hill climbing whipped into you. What would you think my body fat percentage is, Courtney? I won't take offence. I'm going to say 15-ish. That's too kind, I'm at 18. I saw that number and had no idea what it meant. I've since gone and looked it up — that puts me, they say, in the

[56:08] healthy range for somebody my age, 18 to 24. Right, so why do you say that? I'm just saying that's my starting point. Well, that's what the BMI says — because of my weight, I'm 172 centimetres tall and I weigh 80 kilos. That's heavy for that height according to the BMI, right, but I'm a stocky little thing, I've got a lot of muscle mass in there. But yeah, it's just interesting — now I have an understanding, apparently I've

[56:39] got a very fat head, though — is my head holding fat, or just a big head? My head has 20% body fat, I don't know. This report has a whole heap of numbers on it, but maybe you can decipher a formula. No, I don't know that. But as far as body fat in general goes, guys, I lived through the era of

[57:11] callipers — oh yeah, skin folds, every, multiple times a year, heading to the Queensland Academy of Sport or the AIS, whatever it was at the time, and we'd have our skin folds taken. That was just as normal as getting a drug test. Now, not to take you into cancellable territory — no, on this topic I'm happy to speak — but callipers and skin folds are almost considered taboo now, ancient history, frowned upon. It would almost, in some places, be considered bullying in the elite performance workplace. Well, in some — that's what I mean, behind the scenes I can give

[57:43] you some good advice, it's still happening. Still happening, because it works. Why is it good? Well, if you want to know what your body fat is, you stick the callipers on at a number of different points, and then you're able to map that out over time. It's great knowledge — you can take your body weight and how that's increasing or decreasing, but if your muscle mass is increasing and your body fat's going down, that's not necessarily a bad

[58:13] thing, right, so you're getting more data points that way with the callipers. There may be digital versions or whatever else these days, I haven't had it done to me specifically, but as a performer, it was just another data point I wanted to improve. I wanted to be as light as I could but as healthy as I could to go and race, and if that meant getting my skin folds tested, I'd never flinch. Why would I?

[58:44] Why would you flinch at getting your skin folds taken if the goal was to be in better condition to perform? So how does it go down with you when you hear that? Oh, it's BS, absolute BS. I'm not surprised that's your response. There's — if there's no performance reason to do it, so

[59:16] be it. But if part of performing better in whatever sport we're talking about is having the correct, healthy weight, why wouldn't you use every tool at your disposal to do that? Mic drop, boom. I agree, and I've never been an elite athlete anyway. In eight weeks' time I look forward to being able to tell you and everybody else what my new body fat percentage is.

[59:49] I won't get down to 5%. What do you reckon I'll drop to? Five to six percent or even lower is the kind of percentage for some of the male elites racing. I'm not going to get to that. What do you think I can get to in an eight-week period, if I'm disciplined? I'd only be guessing, I have no idea, but I'd say down towards 10%. Geez, without any science on this, just between you and me, I'd go, like,

[01:00:20] 10%, wow. But maybe that's not too bad — I might win the challenge with that, because it's a proper competition. But I've got no background knowledge of how quickly you can lose that. Tell you what, no matter how fast I can lose it, I can put it on quicker. That's probably the case for everybody. That is true. How are we travelling for time? We've still got some listener questions coming, we've got a lot going on. I did want to say, someone sent me in — we were talking about tattoos last week and stickers.

[01:00:53] I can't say who, they didn't want to be named, but they sent in a photo of a guy flaunting a 42-point-something tattoo on Instagram. Background: overseas, internationally, people wear the 26-point-whatever-it-is tattoo to show they've run a marathon. I thought it would never catch on here, I didn't think we were that — and I said it wouldn't. Courtney said

[01:01:23] it wouldn't. Looks like Courtney's right. That's a data set of one, but annoying. I'm telling you, mate, it's coming, good luck to that bloke. I'd love to meet him and ask him what he's thinking. We'll get some of the other stuff in next week, but let's get to the questions, we've got some questions. Where's this first one, because it was a good one — this one's for you. Go for it. I don't want to answer this one, I think it's right up your

[01:01:53] alley. So John's sending in: any cheat codes or tips for young dads with kids under 12 months old to get some kilometres in? You're closer to that — I am closer, my youngest is 4, my oldest is 8, yours are a bit older than that. My first piece of advice, John, assuming you've got a kid under 12 months old and you're with your partner, would be to find out when works for

[01:02:23] her for you to disappear. You could throw them in a pram, or if that's not how you're used to running, you could adapt and start running with a pram. But if you can carve some time out — and I don't know how far you run, but if you can carve yourself out a 45-minute window of opportunity to run, whether that be at night, in the morning, or in the middle

[01:02:55] of the day. I don't know where you live and what conditions you're training in, but if you can carve out 45 minutes in your day — and I think you can — at least three times a week, if that's what you're used to running, despite having this 12-month-old, it'll mean making some sacrifices elsewhere in your day, so that maybe from 6:00pm onwards you're on the clock,

[01:03:25] so that your wife can get a decent night's sleep, or she's not doing the — cheat code, I don't think there is one. I think it's just being very clear and saying to your wife, or your mum and dad if you've got family support around — that's what your friends and family are for — and being honest about it: running matters to me, running helps me with fitness, but it's also mental health stuff, it's what I need to do. Be upfront about that: can you help me carve out three 45-minute windows each week so I

[01:03:59] can go get my running done? That's what I'd suggest — lean on friends. I don't want to make this parenting advice, because every kid's their own, I'm not going to tell you how to raise your kids, that's up to you. But I think for blokes in particular, we can be reluctant, because it's our wives or the woman who's gone through carrying the kid, giving birth, the physical recovery, and then for the first 12 months when the kid still needs mum to

[01:04:31] breastfeed, we can feel useless to an extent, at times. But there's nothing wrong with leaning on your support network — your friends, when they offer help, it's not a token offer, your family, when they offer help, it's not a token offer — say yes. Sometimes it can feel a bit emasculating to say I need help — say yes, it's not selfish or wrong to accept the help so you can go for a run. Solid advice, mate, there you go. I'm going to need some counselling after this.

[01:05:04] Have you ever run with one of those baby joggers/prams? Did you use one with your kids? It just doesn't — for the same reason I'm not a huge fan of running on the treadmill, it just, I couldn't find my cadence running with those things. And when it came back to it, I'm like, well, how badly do I want to go for a run right now if I've got this hour where I'm on dad duty?

[01:05:34] Why don't I just go play with my son, play with my daughter, and find the window to run properly another time, rather than robbing Peter to pay Paul? OK, that makes a bit of sense. Always wondered, never tried them. You've never tried them? No. OK, so Spartani — he's sent through a question on Instagram, says: hey lads, great podcast, great chat, few questions for the pod — do you stretch before runs?

[01:06:04] I used to, but I haven't for six months now, and haven't seen any injuries from not stretching. Do I stretch before a run? No. Do I activate before a run? Yes, that's the difference. Explain it. The difference is actually going through some range-of-motion stuff, so it's not a static stretch — you could call it stretching, I suppose, activation, but it's more like actual mobility work. So yesterday morning — sometimes I've got a lot of time and I'll roll out a bit at home,

[01:06:34] that's very rare because I run early, but if I get to the park a few minutes before we run — yesterday I was just doing some squats, bounding out a little, getting through some single-leg lunges. Single-leg lunges is always the best one for me. If you're really limited on time, at least go through something. And the final one I always like is some type of glute activation.

[01:07:04] A good one for that is the bridge — just lying on your back and lifting up. The other one, if you're standing, is a sideways step and then squat down. Or a really easy one is just to have a resistance band in the car and do a couple of crab walks — crab walks are really easy. And for Spartani or anybody else wondering about stretching and activating for runs — how much do one of those bands cost you? From Kmart, probably six

[01:07:35] bucks. Go and get one of those bands, throw it in the back of the car — you'll forget about it, and then you'll find yourself somewhere good to go running. Buy two, one in the back of the car, one at home. So, any activation — probably, as we've been talking through, the crab walks, some easy lunges, and jog into it. What's the comfiest run socks you recommend, Road slash trail? This is a really simple answer — the comfiest?

[01:08:06] If they're comfy enough, that's fine with me. What I look for in a sock is longevity — I don't want the heels in the socks going thin after two or three months and being at risk of breaking on a run. Do you have a brand you use? Swiftwick — I swear by Swiftwick socks. Now I've recently got some Salomon socks too, because I've just started

[01:08:36] — this is a bit of a plug for the Salomon stuff, so I'll race in those socks, super lightweight, a really nice cotton sock, that's what I'll race in. But for training and heavy repeat use, have a look at Swiftwick socks. I haven't heard of them — I got into them when I was racing triathlon back in the day. If you're into triathlon or cycling, everyone knows the brand ENVE now,

[01:09:06] but going back 10 or 15 years it was a bit more niche and bloody expensive, and I was lucky enough to get my hands on a few freebies at the time. How I got into Swiftwick socks was they were doing collabs with ENVE, wore them then, and I've bought them ever since, seven at a time. Last question from Spartani — best race supplement for half marathon race day? Jeez, sounds like a throwaway question, but

[01:09:36] that's a big one, that's a big question. Depends what you're talking about — within the race, which is probably too long a discussion, and everyone's going to be different. Let's start with you, Liam — the morning of a half marathon, what do you eat, what do you drink? There's no right or wrong, but I think the biggest thing is, you don't try anything new.

[01:10:06] Yeah, that's rule number one, don't try anything new. And the second rule is, you want to get — I'd always say you want to get some carbs in, that's key, but in a way you're comfortable with and have tried and like. I reckon, having done Noosa triathlons, half marathons, marathons previously, I've gone with a piece of toast, peanut butter, chopped-up banana, honey on top — that's my breakfast.

[01:10:36] It's all natural, but I reckon I'm going to be changing it, because of the new radio show hours and having to get up and leave the house by 4:00am, I'm preparing my breakfast the night before now, taking it in with me. My breakfast for the last four weeks has been the same thing: half a cup of oats, half a cup of almond milk, a scoop of protein powder, a tablespoon of yoghurt, some walnuts, some chia seeds, and

[01:11:10] some maple syrup, and I put that in an old salsa jar in the fridge overnight, dice up a banana on top the next morning. I've found that's the most consistent thing through the day — there's a sense of calm in my stomach, and I've found if I go for a run three hours later, I might be hungry, four hours

[01:11:40] later I might be hungry, but it's very settled, there's none of that 'geez, where's the nearest toilet' — it's just a very neutral breakfast for my stomach. And I reckon if I had a half marathon this weekend I'd still eat that as my breakfast, and then I'd have the gels I'm used to running with, or the Clif Bloks, which I like. I'd probably go with the gels or supplements I'm used to in-race, and

[01:12:14] that I've become used to over however many years, and that would be my breakfast of choice. They must be paying you the big bucks at the radio station, mate, some of those ingredients in your breakfast. Nah, it's cheap — walnuts, you buy a big bag from Costco, a truckload of walnuts, cost per use, you've got to amortise the cost over the life of these things. Trust me, it's fine, cheaper than going to the servo. Yes, much cheaper.

[01:12:44] I'm definitely getting ripped off trying to be convenient. On race day, myself, when I race I'm generally travelling, I can't think of the last time I've raced at home, always in a hotel or a different state or country. And I've always relied on, a few hours before the event, maybe up to three hours if I'm not getting up too early, the old instant porridge you can just pour, it's all in one, you just buy it at the servo

[01:13:14] or the supermarket, all in one, with a banana, because I can pretty much find that anywhere, guaranteed. And a Red Bull at that time — yeah, I like a Red Bull in the morning, get a bit of glucose in and start my caffeine build. And then later on, before the race, I'll have a hot coffee as well in that period, and then just before the race, say 20 minutes before, I'll look to put in some type of carbohydrate again, and that's dependent on what we're doing racing.

[01:13:44] Like, have you had to get a bus to a trail race, or is it here on the start line for a marathon — it'd probably be a gel. It's very dependent on the circumstances around a race, but in general I want something I'm used to, consistently doing the same thing, get the carbs in, and using caffeine. I love that. And nice thing to say, then, I reckon I err on the side of under-fuelling on race days — I'm not saying what

[01:14:16] works for you will work for me, but I err on the side of under-fuelling out of concern that I might need to stop 10 minutes in because of over-fuelling. The thing is, you could get three different, very qualified dietitians in and get three slightly different answers on what they'd prefer, and they should try to individualise it to you anyway, based on what food you like and

[01:14:46] what you normally eat and how much you can consume, all that. We'll get into this later in the year with a specialist, but even then you've got to work it out for yourself to a degree, because it's always going to be a different answer. I tell you what, we sit down before these things and think about what we're going to talk about, and then we get to the end and look at the run sheet and we've left things we haven't had a chance to get to. Have you got anything you want to finish on? Give us something to finish on, finish strong. You sent me this?

[01:15:17] No, I saw it myself, Scott Cadbury sent it in. It's a piece of gear, a Hoka speed loafer. Whichever you want to call it — would you pay $476.48 for a loafer? Absolutely not. It looks like a boat shoe, but it's got some type of — it looks like, I'll tell you who I reckon wears those shoes, James Packer,

[01:15:51] James Packer, Rupert Murdoch, it looks like a very expensive boat shoe. And we said earlier, talking about New Balance and that type of shoe, and Salomon, walking into work — who would roll this into work? And now that I've said that, I'm half expecting to see one of those 18-to-28-year-old girls I spoke of earlier who could get away with wearing it. They'd want to get it on half price, that is ridiculous.

[01:16:21] I don't — you don't see too many shoes like this as a production-run shoe, not a one-off specialist collection Nike or whatever, for $476 dollars. I'd keep an eye out for those on the red carpet, somewhere, some singer will wear those on the red carpet. There you go. Alright, very nice work, we'll be back next week, lots more to get stuck into, dude. Courtney, we'll see you then. Yep, see you then.