> ## Content Index > Fetch the complete content index at: https://www.inthebeginningpodcast.com/llms.txt > Use this file to discover other available public pages before exploring further. # EP 9 - THE 3HR MARATHON SHOE - URL: https://www.inthebeginningpodcast.com/ep-9-the-3hr-marathon-shoe/ - Published: 2024-11-15T06:00:00.000Z - Updated: 2026-08-20T03:49:29.000Z - Description: Courtney Atkinson and Liam Flanagan on Olympics & 2032, Noosa Triathlon, trail running — recorded on the Gold Coast. - Author: Courtney Atkinson - Tags: Episodes, Main Feed, Olympics, Triathlon, Trail Running, Marathon Training, #Import 2026-07-28 20:58 *Courtney Atkinson and Liam Flanagan on Olympics & 2032, Noosa Triathlon, trail running — recorded on the Gold Coast.* ## Listen Listen on [Spotify](https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/inthebeginningpodcast/episodes/EP-9---THE-3HR-MARATHON-SHOE-e2qv0qh?ref=inthebeginningpodcast.com) or [Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/REPLACE?ref=inthebeginningpodcast.com). ## Full transcript Auto-generated transcript. Timestamps approximate. Hosts: Courtney Atkinson & Liam Flanagan. **Read the full transcript** \[00:00\] In the Beginning, Episode 9, the world's fastest growing running podcast. Courtney, how are we travelling? We're travelling well, but first things first — what were you doing today? I saw you shared on the AC and Aaron page you walking through Triple M's radio office. One thing before you ask your questions — let me just say that as we move forward with In the Beginning podcast, I hope the community learns to \[00:31\] appreciate that if we are going to do something, I am fully committed, I'm all in. And that's what you're referring to today, as I walked through Triple M's office in a full Bandit costume — for those who don't have young kids, that's the dad from Bluey, the cartoon dog. Yeah, so today \[01:01\] I got some wolf whistles, I saw some of them — girls were appreciating it. They're only human, Courtney. I was lucky enough today to go to the media preview opening of Bluey's World, the new attraction and theme park thing that's been set up in Brisbane next to Eighth Street on the north side. And it's awesome — it's where we were kind of saying an Olympic stadium could go, over that way, they're talking about wanting to reclaim a bit of the river for a possible \[01:31\] Olympic stadium. But anyway, Bluey's World, unbelievable — if you've got kids, get along, it is amazing. My kids lost their minds. I've got an eight-year-old and a four-year-old, they loved it. You'd probably spend about ninety minutes through there, but it was a brilliant day with the kids. Then I went back to the office — you ought to do these things just for the sake of the station. So were you dressed up while you were at Bluey's World? No, no, I thought that might have been a stretch too far. You just borrowed some of their costumes for the office bit. \[02:02\] Well, no, here's the thing — when people say "oh, you've only just gotten into Bluey," I've had that costume for three years. My wife Alana and I trick-or-treated as Chilli and Bandit, the mum and dad from Bluey, for Halloween in 2021\. I was walking the streets of Randwick in Sydney dressed as Bandit three years ago. You're onto it, I was onto it. I was an early adopter of Bluey. My kids are older, so Bluey didn't exist for us, we were watching different cartoons. But funnily enough, last year, when \[02:35\] no one really knew about Bluey coming to Brisbane as Bluey's World, I got a phone call from Tourism Queensland one day and they said, "can you go to Birdsville tomorrow?" I said, how far away is Birdsville? Some people listening to us thinking this is a running podcast don't realise one of my hobbies on the side is filming, and I do a bit of work for Tourism Queensland — mostly it's out running trails with GoPros, all the outdoor adventure type stuff. \[03:06\] That's where I started with them, and it's morphed into whatever they'll call on me for. But for Birdsville, they said, "do you know the game Keepy Uppy?" I had no idea what they were talking about, and long story short, I went out to Birdsville on a little plane — you take about seven stops, through places like Windorah, and finally get out there. It's a seven-hour flight to go only about eight hundred K, or \[03:37\] actually more like sixteen hundred kilometres. And then I got out there with a red ball — normally you use a balloon in the game, but we were using a red ball — and I had to go around town trying to find people to film playing Keepy Uppy. That was a challenge. Anyway, so — I've got the — for the local launch of Bluey, Tourism Queensland did this big \[04:07\] international campaign last year around what Bluey's World coming to Brisbane. And as part of the promotional tour to get internationals involved, they ran this massive game of Keepy Uppy around Queensland — doing it up in North Queensland, in Brisbane, on the Sunshine Coast, Gold Coast, and I got the Birdsville leg. That is actually an amazing story, and for people out there with kids who've been calling it "Upsy" — they'll \[04:38\] be upset, because I can guarantee if there are people out there with kids my age, they know what Keepy Uppy is and have probably been playing it for the last two or three years. And today my kids got to play Keepy Uppy in Bluey's actual backyard. It was a massive thrill. Well done to you for the part you played. Thank you — it was a challenge, because in the middle of Birdsville, out west, don't quote me, but I'm thinking there were probably only about a hundred people in town at the time. No one at the pub wanted to do it. Anyway, the local policeman was my first \[05:11\] recruit — he did it. And then, literally at one stage, I was nearly walking down to the campsite to ask someone, and then it all came together in the last hour of my twenty-four hours there, and the local ranger did it for me too. So I ticked it off, kept my job. You would've had to have a Birdsville sign in the background too — yeah, the Birdsville sign, the local service station is another attraction out there, the billabong, and the \[05:41\] main attraction, Big Red. Well done to you on playing a part in getting Bluey's World up. Just thank me for it later. Amazing, parents. How's your week been? Short and busy — eventful this week. I went down to Sydney — Red Bull had the World Cliff Diving Championship on Sydney Harbour. They set up a twenty-seven-metre tower \[06:11\] just scaffolding, sitting there at Mrs Macquarie's Chair with the Opera House in the background. The first day I got there I went out to check out the tower. They bring in creators to film themselves jumping off it — they set up a five-metre board, a five-metre gantry, a ten-metre gantry. A ten-metre gantry is what Olympic divers jump from at the Olympics. So for those playing along at home, if you go to your local aquatic centre that's got a diving pool, that's the height — that's the \[06:41\] biggest one they jump from at the Olympic Games. And then you head up to twenty-one metres for the women's jump, and twenty-seven metres — three times that — for the men. The best way I explained it to people on the weekend — the next day, when the actual event was on, I was out on a boat hosting a range of people, watching the divers do their thing. But the day before, when I was up there, I was explaining to them \[07:11\] that at five metres you just dive in, no stress. At ten metres it's that level where you'd run and jump, but your knees hold you back a little. At twenty-seven metres, mate, you look at it and think that's going to kill me. It's not even a thought process of jumping. These guys are crazy — there's a reason they have people waiting at the bottom in the water. \[07:41\] There are divers, underwater divers, on top of the water. What's really scary is there's one guy just sitting in the water with a stretcher — that's his whole job for the day, sitting there with an orange stretcher. It's a dangerous event. Twenty-seven metres — and this is a leftover of growing up playing AFL — I tend to measure things in "can \[08:13\] I kick a footy that far." I'm not a prodigious kick of the football, at my best I can probably kick forty metres, so the idea of someone jumping off something twenty-seven metres high is nuts to me. It really is absolutely nuts. The weather was good, I think they got about fifty thousand people over the two days to come down and watch it, so it was great. But on my week — I hit a hundred K, so my mileage did increase, everything's moving well. Threshold improved at the same \[08:44\] heart rate of around one fifty-three. I nearly made up ten seconds, but there's a bit of a shoe story there — we'll touch on that later, I'll shade it a little bit. So the arrow's still pointing up on your mileage, everything's going to plan. But what happened was, I had two days in Sydney — I wasn't out at the beaches where I normally stay at Coogee, but in the city — and something happened that annoys the absolute crap out of me. When you're running, \[09:14\] I'm out for quite an easy jog at my easy pace, still running past people. I was running across the bridge, and as I ran past someone going about a third of my pace, I moved past pretty easily, and then suddenly they're on my shoulder. Do you have this problem? No, because I don't run past people like that. It's a pet — it's a pet gripe of mine — \[09:45\] there's nothing against someone being competitive and wanting to have a run, but I'm out for an easy run on my own, headphones in, listening to my music, just wanting to cruise. And you know the feeling when someone's just there, and they're not moving, but you've gone past them — I've come up on them at a pace, and they've suddenly sped up just to run on my shoulder. This, to me, is running \[10:15\] insanity. And I'm not even running quick — we're talking maybe four forty-four, four thirty pace, which for some people is quick, but for you it's not. And for the people listening on their long run right now going "he's a whining bastard" — no, look, think about it, because this idea to me is insanity. Why would you want to race up and run \[10:46\] — if you'd headed out for a run by yourself, why would you want to do this to someone? You'd never do this to someone if they walked past you on the street, you wouldn't start walking on their shoulder. Well, I kind of get it — it's like having someone to pace you, if you're finding it a bit of a challenge to hang on. But you're not running that pace, so why start running that pace? Competitiveness, I suppose, but it's not the fact that they're there that annoys me, it's the feeling of them there that makes me want to \[11:18\] speed up, which then takes it from being a casual run, not thinking about it, enjoying my music and my podcast, to suddenly worrying about why someone's hanging on to me. It happens on the Gold Coast too, running along the Esplanade — happens quite often. Really? I've never encountered this before. This is a genuine new frontier in the running world that's never opened up to me before. You might be the one I'm accusing — no, I've never \[11:50\] done it to anyone, and it's never happened to me. When I'm out on a ride, if a group rides past me, I'll jump on the back of it for a couple of Ks because I can — if a big group of eight or ten people go past me while I'm riding alone, I'll tack onto the back because it's a bit of free speed. I'd argue they probably think the same thing, especially if they're a group of \[12:20\] six who all know each other. It's an interesting one, because it's neither right nor wrong, but — that's just my opinion — it's really, really annoying when you're out having your nice cruisy run and then you've got to work out: do I speed up, do I stop for a drink and let them go ahead again, because the pace differential at that point isn't that different? And I also just don't want to hand them out there, I don't want the hassle. \[12:51\] If I wanted to go for a run with someone, I'd be running with someone else — that's the point. Pretty much, yeah, exactly. I've never heard of that before, I'm going to keep an eye out for it now — you know what, I might do it to somebody just to see. This way — just be careful, on the Gold Coast you don't know, the fellas running around here are pretty built, so they wouldn't take it as. Anyway — mileage going up, getting into dust-ups on the Sydney Harbour Bridge, pretty much. I'm putting everything up on Strava, so go check us out there if you want the nitty-gritty of the week. \[13:21\] More fartlek, more insurance — and the big news is summer has hit with a vengeance. It's here, it's drip season. And that's caused another — not a dilemma, but it's causing me to spend more money than I want to. So getting up at five AM, or four forty-five, whatever it is, to get out to the forest, \[13:52\] I can't wake the house up making coffee, so my local stop is 7-Eleven — you know, the two-dollar coffee, or with the app, a dollar fifty, great deal, nothing else is open that time of morning. But here's where I'm spending more money than I should: with summer hitting this hard, I want something more than just the coffee, something to come home with. I've always got Red Bull in the back of my car, full of Red Bulls, so a bit of sugar and glucose after training is always sorted. \[14:24\] But when the weather's this hot and humid, I need something more, so I've been buying — not a chocolate milk, but a protein milk, like Sanitarium Up & Go but the extra-protein one, thirty grams of protein in it, about four ninety. So cheap coffee, dollar fifty, and then I've been grabbing a bigger electrolyte drink too. \[14:55\] Yeah, the bigger ones give you more for your money than Gatorade or Powerade — you grab two of them, they're on sale, seven bucks. So basically every time you go out for a run, you're spending fifteen dollars — I'm going to need another job just to support my service station habit. Do you grab any actual physical food, like a banana-oat bar or a Mars bar? No, I don't, but these days you can pretty much get all your food from a servo if you want. \[15:28\] They're pretty decent — if you go to one of the good servos, they've got sandwiches, and I even saw the other day they've got sushi triangles, like you get in Japan. There's plenty of options. The other thing I'd look at, since we've talked about me really focusing on protein at the moment, the shake's easy and I like drinking it, but you can also buy the yoghurts in there — some of those fitness yoghurts with about fifteen grams of protein. Have you ever run with baby food? No, you've never done it — but the smile on your \[15:59\] face. I don't know if I told you — a while back, when I got my half marathon PB, about a month and a half, two months ago now, prior preparation prevents poor performance, and I was not prepared, because it was back in Adelaide and I didn't have any gels or anything I'd normally take on a long run \[16:29\] or in the trails. So I went to a supermarket the night before, and the closest thing I could find, coming back to what we were talking about at the start, was Bluey chocolate custards. Bluey saved you? Yeah, Bluey was there for my PB — I had two of these Bluey chocolate custard things, and they were great, they were literally perfect for the half marathon. But the reason I bring up baby food is a guy I know who runs trails and ultras and \[16:59\] swears by it as a way of getting — I was talking to somebody just the other day about getting actual proper food into you on these ultramarathon runs, fifty K plus through the mountains. He asked me, when you've done those races, what have you used, and I said, well, I've had physical honey sandwiches wrapped in glad wrap, because there's only so many lollies and gels you can use before it's just too much sugar going in. \[17:29\] You need something more solid. So it was peanut butter sandwiches — and by the time you've run ten Ks with one of those in your backpack, it's all squished up anyway, but it just goes in your mouth and it all goes down. The biggest shock I had around solid food in ultra races was when I did my first Coast to Coast — that stage I was still racing elite, trying to podium. We got to the Coast to \[18:01\] Coast, obviously an adventure race across New Zealand — you start with a three K run off the beach, then a sixty K group ride, a thirty kilometre trail run which is about a three hour run, back on the bike for another fifteen K time trial, and then you jump in the kayaks for seventy K downriver. My paddling standard, I'm in there for four to four and a half hours, the good guys are in around four hours. When I \[18:34\] arrived at the transition station to get in the kayak — this is probably five, six hours into the race — they were having pies and sausage rolls, and I felt like I was missing out. And these aren't just everyday athletes, this is Braden Currie and the guys who end up winning the race, some of the best New Zealand adventure racers, all tucking into these savoury items, and there I am still on my gels and everything else. No wonder I lost a bit of time in that \[19:06\] one. It's just about fuelling right. It's funny, I was talking about this — for people out there running at whatever level today, even if you're just going out — I think I mentioned it a bit last week, a friend of mine has gone back to square one with his running, targeting the Gold Coast Marathon next year, wants to run a good time, but he's gone right back to square one. One of the things the guy helping him with training and nutrition said was, you're just not eating enough. \[19:38\] I think there are people out there listening who are running and thinking about losing weight as well — yes, it's about calories in, calories out, but you've got to fuel it, this is your car. Your body's not going to perform well if you're not putting enough into it. Stop worrying so much about how you're going to look and start worrying about putting enough into you so your body can actually go. \[20:09\] That was a heavy point to make. Well, no — why am I making the point? We did a lot of name-dropping last week, so shout out to all those people, yeah, we're not going to name you again — got that one for free. I actually spent time — I was on the boat with Jess Hull. What did we just say about not name-dropping? No, no, keep going, I love Jess, don't stop. So I'm kind of half-thinking, is this too secret? But we were talking about long \[20:39\] runs, because I was gutted she was in town — she went for a long run at Centennial Park on the weekend before she got on the boat with us to watch the cliff diving. I'm like, oh, I was running around the harbour on my own with this guy breathing down my neck, that would've been a much better conversation — though I probably wouldn't be able to keep up with Jess either. But we talked about it, and she was saying how she fuels her longer runs, and I was saying it's \[21:09\] a bit of a habit for me not to fuel my long runs — I go out, have a coffee, and then run without anything for two to three hours in the bush, just water, nothing. I know it's not the right thing to be doing, but it's habitual, because there was a period where we went through a phase of fasted training — we thought it was the right thing to teach your body to fast and burn fat. I think my limited understanding of the full science of it now \[21:41\] is that all the high-carbohydrate stuff you were talking about is that if you're going to go out, make sure you fuel properly, because that allows you to recover best for the next session and so on. So yeah, I was literally having this conversation on Sunday with Jess Hull — Olympic silver medallist. That makes me feel really special. Let's hope she doesn't listen to this — shout out Jess. But I did not \[22:11\] have the heart to bring up our original conversation about the best-known runners. You should have brought it up! I did not have the — no, I thought, first time I've met her, I'll leave this one for another time. I reckon my attitude is, Courtney, anything we say here on this podcast is things I'd be more than happy to say to people in person, so you should have brought it up. Well, next time — organise a group run, \[22:41\] tell her next time she's on the Gold Coast, let's go for a group run together. I'll enjoy that first two hundred metres with you guys and then watch you disappear off down the beach path. But talking about it, neither of us had ever met her, and then you get to meet her and she was absolutely lovely. So did she say what she fuels up with on her long runs? No, she didn't let anything out of the bag, but she does fuel up. If it's good enough for an Olympic silver medallist, it should be good enough for you. Well, I should be taking some tips — maybe \[23:12\] looking for some snacks at the servo. Yeah, there's good stuff there. So what about your week, mate? My arrow's pointing up as well. Good to hear. I feel like I'm running again, my mileage is increasing — not at a hundred K, but I reckon I've run five days consecutive at the moment, and really pulling it \[23:43\] back. I'm operating with a running mantra of "run slow to run fast," so I'm really pulling back on my everyday pace — I've probably run three or four of the last five days no faster than five fifteen pace, really pulling it back. And then this morning, the day of recording this, I went out and thought, \[24:15\] right, now I'm going to try and run fast. I did some intervals — five one-K intervals with a two-minute rest, then five two-hundreds with a thirty-second rest in between, trying to tax my legs a bit with some interval sessions to speed up. I feel good, I'm really enjoying running again. Although, getting back to what you said — you did want to interrupt me. Yeah, go on. You did describe yourself as a run influencer the other week — your team's got a sponsor \[24:47\] now, AG1, and you just said "run slow to run fast" in inverted commas. The reason I didn't get it right is I think that's a run influencer slogan. Is it? I think you've just ticked it — if there were ten things that make you a run influencer, "run slow to run \[25:18\] fast" is one of them. Oh no, I've gone full run-influencer wanker. You just walked into it. No, but you claimed you were — you're professional run influencer now, sponsored and everything. I mean, hey, the facts are the facts, Courtney, but I feel like such a dickhead now. I'm so glad you called me on it — I would've been so angry if we'd got to the end of this and you'd told me afterwards. I apologise to everybody out there for using that phrase, but that is the way I'm running at \[25:49\] the moment — hey, run however you want, but for me right now I am consciously running slower so I can pick my days in the week. This is very much inspired by what you told us the other week about your sessions — have a speed session, have a long run session. I'm trying to plan my running a bit like that at the moment, and to run more, so it would make sense what \[26:19\] you're saying around making sure you recover properly so that when you hit your intensity or goal sessions, you're getting the most out of them. Because that's the other pitfall you can fall into — always running too hard, and then you don't get that variance, and you also don't get to recover properly, which is the whole basis of putting together a week with structure, periodisation, and \[26:49\] variance in what level of pace and what level of physical demand it is. So quickly — you and I actually went for a trail run the other day, which is the first time we've been back up in the trails since we started this — trail chats. And the irony is we started doing this because we used to go for these trail runs together and have these chats. This might be fun, that's the first trail run we've gone for since we started the podcast, which is ironic, isn't it? But we went for that run and it was a little \[27:22\] over eleven Ks. Can you remember the main topic we talked about? I'll tell you what, we talked a lot about politics. But the thing I'm coming back to is you told me a story on that trail chat about how you used to pay your coaches as an elite triathlete. I do want to get into that, if you're happy to share it, I think it's a ripping one. We're an open book here, so — we're going to get to that, but off the back of that run with you, I went for a slow eight K the next day. \[27:52\] Then I went for a run in the Salomon S-Lab Spectres — I've got a shoe review for you now. I had aspirations of making that a long run, but off the back of the trail run and running the next day, I got eleven Ks in and I was cooked. That was Sunday morning, I was running to my daughter's nippers training, and it was the humidity — it's been proper nuts in the southeast right now. But in short, my week's going good, although I did have one little hiccup where I went \[28:23\] for a run around Brissy. Was this the AKR? Yeah, let's be honest, we all like to look — you can be one of these people who says "I don't care about the opinions of others, I'm comfortable in my own skin," sure, tell yourself whatever you want, but ultimately, whether it's a massive part of it or you're at the small end of the spectrum, we all care about how we look a little bit, right? \[28:53\] Whether it's the tiniest bit, no one doesn't care at all — we all care a little or a lot, and I care probably somewhere in the middle. I had to go for a run in what I've turned into my backup hat. The other day I got out there on a stinking hot day in Brisbane in my running kit and I normally just roll with a running cap on backwards — I didn't have one, and it would've been irresponsible to go out without a hat, so I was forced to run in a wide \[29:25\] brim hat, like what you'd expect a fifty-year-old hiker to be wearing. And I ran in that, and it was — something. Why do you have this cap, then? Where else does it get worn? I think I bought it as a camping hat, sun-smart, to show my kids it's important to be sun-smart, and it's lived in the back of my boot ever since. And I ran eight Ks around Brisbane in it, \[29:56\] and yeah, it was as embarrassing as it sounds. Was it only eight K because you wanted to get out of the public eye, you weren't happy with how you looked? Now let's go back, because I do want you to tell this story about what we talked about in the trails, if you're happy to, about when you were a professional triathlete. I can't remember how we got onto it, but you were telling me about when you were probably at your peak, I'd guess. I said it was my peak. \[30:26\] Yeah, and the interesting setup you had with your coach at the time, how he got paid. It wasn't just that coach — I think we got into it discussing tennis, and the fact that coaches in tennis, I was of the thought process, don't really take a wage, they just take a commission on the winnings of the players, which can obviously be very lucrative — I don't know how true that is, that was just my gut feel of how they'd work. \[30:57\] And the reason I thought of this was, back when I was in triathlon, before or around the time we first got into the Olympics, it was probably more a pure professional sport. I remember how we got into it — I said something about joining run groups or clubs, and I said I was out on my own for so long, but you can't beat the group when they've got the best in the world — we were talking about triathletes like Braden Currie and those guys. \[31:28\] And I was saying we weren't sure who he was training with. That's right. And I said when I was similar age, I was trying to do it on my own — I had people helping me, swim coaches, run coaches, probably some of the best in the business — but at the time there was a group called Stewart's Group, run by Miles Stewart's dad. Miles was a world champion in that era, went to the Sydney 2000 Olympics, the first Olympics. And it got to the point they had \[31:59\] literally, I'd say, six out of the ten best in the world training with them as a group, and whatever I did, we just couldn't beat them. So at some point I just had to go, I've got to join them. It was the best decision of my life — raced the best I ever have, it was fun, the training was great. But the way they structured it, I went into a professional environment. As I recall, you either paid the coach — let's say, for argument's sake, a monthly US dollar amount that would \[32:31\] equate to, say, ten thousand US dollars a year, or ten thousand Australian dollars a year at the time — or you didn't pay, but you paid a percentage of your prize money. The group was so strong there were races where the coach was being paid better than the third-place getter, because he was covering six to eight of the top ten places, and the first-place getter's cut was a \[33:03\] larger percentage. At the time, I felt you had to be there to win. But over time — and I think this is where the conversation went — that was probably part of the reason I left in the end. There was a point where I'd improved, got to the top of the tree, was winning most of the time, which was great, but I think it was probably a little bit to do with the money and a little bit to do with ego. \[33:33\] And that might have been part of the downfall for years after that. But I got to the point where I thought, I can do this myself and keep all the money for myself — because that's the thing, once you'd paid your annual fee, say it was ten thousand, it wasn't a case of once you hit that ten thousand in commission you stopped, every time you won you \[34:05\] paid commission. You could end up paying him fifty grand. And in a sense, what you're doing then is offsetting the less elite athletes within that squad who were getting the same level of training but you're performing better — you're essentially allowing potentially five or six less talented athletes to \[34:36\] benefit. And for young athletes, that plays on your mind, right. So it wasn't — I reckon I was twenty-one, maybe twenty-two when I joined, lasted about two years, maybe three, so I left probably around twenty-four, twenty-five. And with hindsight, would you leave again? With hindsight, I'd leave again, but the one thing I \[35:07\] never regret is I love the process of trying to work everything out myself. But if you asked me did I achieve everything I could have — I didn't, because I didn't really trust in it, didn't really give myself fully to the help. So no regrets, because I love the way my career went and everything else, but probably to really hit \[35:39\] that pinnacle — I was probably one of the favourites in Beijing for the Olympics — I probably needed to go all in with someone really guiding me properly. This might seem like an absolute left-hand turn — what's your take on Nick Kyrgios? I ask because the mentality you're displaying a little bit reminds me of him — there are elements I see, and I don't know Nick, but from the way he presents in the media and approaches his career, he hasn't been as successful in tennis from a \[36:13\] winning perspective as you were in triathlon, although his bank balance would suggest he's doing a bit better than me, mate. But it's the attitude, the confidence he has in himself, the comfort he has in his own mind with the approach he takes to his career — I can see you having a very similar take on your career in triathlon. I mean, you can — I like it, he's his own personality, \[36:43\] he brings attention, and you might agree or disagree with the way he brings it, but he's his own man, no one's really going to tell him what to do. He seems like he's right up your alley, Courtney Atkinson — sorry, that was a bit of a left-hand turn, it just jumped out at me. We're always happy to turn left here. Yeah, and is that the way — there are two types, okay, probably three types. There's the middle, people who are just happy to go along, join groups, \[37:16\] probably don't really put in the effort, and they just go through it. There's the super-competitive people who really don't take much into consideration or thought — they just absorb everything around them, do everything they're told to do, and I think generally they're some of the most successful people, they surround themselves with a team of expertise and get to the top. And then I think the third group of athletes are those who \[37:49\] find the process of trying to work it out yourself sometimes more exciting than someone handing you the golden egg. And I'd nearly go as far as saying that's why I say I've got no regrets, because even to this day I still love the idea of testing myself again — we are sitting here in a podcast studio in your house, Courtney, that you have constructed yourself. \[38:21\] I've been working in radio for over ten years and you've handed me the reins for the first time — I was saying before we started, this might be the first time in over ten years that I'm involved with a podcast or radio show that I'm not pushing the buttons on. You see, I've got it two metres away from you, so you can't reach it, my short little arms won't get there. When I don't record it properly, though, then this is on you. All the responsibility today, but where we're sitting right now is evidence of the fact that that is still \[38:53\] your mindset towards work and everything else. I want to learn how to do it — and I might be about to tick off another run-influencer-bingo thing, but it's a beginner's mindset, right, it's "I don't know everything, I'm not the smartest person in the room." And to anybody listening who's starting their running or wants to take that next step, you don't have to know everything about it. The best thing I do with \[39:23\] my running — and you're an example of this — is running with better, more knowledgeable people about running, that's the best way to learn. Go and run with some different people who might run different distances, might run more, might run trails, might run other places. If you do parkrun every week, go find another parkrun, just try it, mix it up. There's no right or wrong. I think what we've just realised \[39:54\] is everyone's different — stick to your personality, whatever makes you tick and enjoy things is always going to be better than trying to fight against something. That's how I figure it out. What was the poll this week, Courtney Atkinson? Yes, we discussed last week that we'd pencilled in our first runs for next year — you had the Noosa Ultra Trail down, and I said kunanyi, or Mount Wellington Trail race, down \[40:25\] in Hobart. Two weeks ago you said you'd run Melbourne, then Sydney became a major and you jumped ship, I admit it. We've got the poll results this week — sixty-seven percent are coming with me to Mount Wellington, you're only getting thirty-three percent of our audience to come with you to Noosa. Do you want to change your mind? No, I'll stick with Noosa. Oh, look, Mount Wellington sounds unbelievable, that sounds unbelievable, \[40:55\] I want to do them all, I want to do all these races. We might have to twist your arm on this one — this actually surprised me, I was thinking the majority of people would want to go to Noosa. Well, maybe that's got something to do with people who follow me and the podcast a bit. I think this comes down to something totally different too — we've talked about this with a lot of things, I think we talked about it a couple of \[41:26\] weeks ago — the idea that people want an excuse to go somewhere new, right, and I think Noosa for a lot of people is a lot more accessible than Mount Wellington. That's true, and a reason to go to Mount Wellington — a picture tells us that, what do they say, a picture paints a thousand \[41:58\] words. I did put up two pictures — I wasn't being biased, but I did put up the beach. It is very flat around Noosa, which is one challenge for a trail race — there's not a lot of elevation, whereas up at Mount Wellington you're at the top scaling up the rocks, you can get snow, ice, a real adventure. It's a very different race — Noosa's Ultra Trail is much more what you'd expect of the Noosa scene. And on that note, the other thing I've had plenty of people writing back about, very excited that we're petitioning for a Clydesdale category in \[42:31\] marathons. I did read that some marathons in America do have a Clydesdale and Athena category — was that the right term, Athena? They exist, but I'm yet to see it here in Australia, so let's bring it in — some of the big fellas. And when we say big fellas, we mean big-boned fellas, it doesn't take a lot to be over a hundred kilos. \[43:01\] If you're six foot three, you're doing well to be under a hundred kilos — then you're a big human, especially if you're doing Hyrox as well. If you're carrying a bit of muscle, or grew up playing footy, chances are you're going to be a hundred kilos. That doesn't mean you're fat, out of shape or overweight, it's just your shape. I want to see it, I think it'd be a really interesting race to watch — outside of the elites winning it, that would actually be the most exciting \[43:33\] category for me to watch in a race. Give them a specially branded bib so you can cheer them on — it's like a horse race, you can literally get out and bet on them. In the Tour de France you get a yellow jersey for the overall winner and a polka-dot jersey for the best climber — let's get something that makes these Clydesdales and Athenas \[44:03\] stand out so I can cheer them on. I'm trying to think of like a furry bib or something for the Clydesdales — haven't quite figured it out yet, but I'll get there. I'm not surprised Mount Wellington won, because you rigged it — you posted a picture that benefited yours. I'll get my own back, that's fine. Would you like a shoe review? Let's do it. So — I've gifted you, well, I didn't gift it, Salomon \[44:33\] gifted you an S-Lab Spectre, and this is the shoe marketed at the more three-to-three-and-a-half-hour marathoner. Carbon plate, decent heel — what's your honest thoughts? Yeah, no — what I promised the In the Beginning podcast community is to never bore you with science, and never lose you in the detail, and that's how I'm going to bring you any gear review I do. These shoes, the Salomon S-Lab \[45:07\] Spectre — these are the shoes you get if you've decided, yep, I've been running, I'm enjoying it, I've got room to grow as a runner, and I'm backing myself to be an athlete. These shoes are the bike you get after you've learned to ride without training wheels. Basically, we all remember when we learned to ride \[45:39\] a bike — I still remember when I learned, I was in the backyard, my brother was teaching me, and I remember the first time he pushed me across. We had a little tennis court in the backyard, he pushed me across the half-court, and I still remember the feeling of getting across diagonal to diagonal and falling over on the grass, going "I can ride a bike." It was amazing, that feeling. You learn with training wheels, then without. \[46:09\] You take them off and you're wobbly, and if you ride enough after that point, your parents go, let's get this kid a new bike, because chances are it's a hand-me-down. Your parents go, right, it's time for you to get your bike. That's what these shoes are. As I was running them, I did an eleven K run on the Sunday and found myself thinking, I feel like an athlete in these shoes — I feel like I'm in the Hokas, the ASICS Kayanos, \[46:41\] the Gel-Nimbus territory, there's lots of foam, a wide landing base, a lot of shoe underneath you. You don't feel like you're going to roll an ankle because there's a heap of foam — it's kind of like landing on a surfboard. Do you feel like you can feel the ground in those, or just the foam? You just kind of land, you don't feel the ground a lot. But there was one point on this run where I found these Spectres don't have that flat, dead sensation, right — \[47:14\] I found myself running in these shoes, and because of the way they were performing, with the carbon plate in them, I was getting a nice bit of response, and I kind of felt myself going, I feel like an athlete in these shoes, I feel like I'm capable of more. In the same way your mum and dad don't go out, once you've learned to ride a bike, and buy you a five-thousand-dollar Cannondale or Canyon, they buy you the bike you're going to ride a lot — you don't \[47:46\] need to go and buy the Nike Alphaflys or the ASICS Metaspeeds straight away, you don't need to jump to that ultimate super shoe. These are the shoes I think if you're in that part of your running journey, that's where I'd put these. You're right, that's how I'd describe them, I really liked running in them, and I could see myself — but honestly, if you were to go and do a marathon in them, \[48:16\] I don't reckon I'd run as fast. I ran the Goldie Marathon in my Metaspeeds — I don't reckon I'd run as fast in the Spectres, no, I don't reckon they're as fast a shoe. You might be ready-made to go under three hours, that's why. Maybe, but the Metaspeeds feel like a race shoe, something you need to run fast in. I've never run in Alphaflys or Vaporflys, so I can't comment, but this feels like a step back speed-wise for me. Yep, but a great shoe for \[48:49\] enjoyable running. Interesting, I really enjoyed them. Did you let me have all the fun, are you running them too? I grabbed a pair for myself. What do you think? I mentioned earlier I had an increase in my threshold last week, and I wore these shoes down at Pizzey Park. I agree, they're a really interesting shoe. Where I see them fitting in is they're actually a really good responsive trainer — I'd wear them for fast work in training, because \[49:20\] obviously you don't want to wear a full plated race shoe in training all the time, and some of those get quite expensive too. Not that these aren't expensive — I think they still retail for about three fifty. But what I did notice is they reminded me of a Pegasus back in the day. I used to run a lot in Nike, and with all these thick foam shoes these days, whether New Balance or \[49:52\] some of the Salomon ones with the thick foam, they're called Ultra Glide, or the Nike Invincibles — when you land in those, you just feel the rubber, like you're on top of a big jelly, not much ground contact. What I liked about these was they were a bit nostalgic — they've got the plate, obviously helping me, I'm improving each week, \[50:23\] but they also made me run a little quicker than I was running the week before, and I felt like my foot was able to move, like I could feel the ground, like I was literally running. It was a bit of nostalgia for me, a feeling of the shoe of old, and I liked it. Not going to race in it, that's my honest take. I've also got a pair of the Adidas Terrex here, kind of the \[51:00\] trail shoe equivalent of the Adidas plated shoe — a friend of mine down in Sydney who's injured said, I'm injured, go give these a burl. So a plated trail shoe, look how thick they are. I'm interested in giving these a whirl against some of the Salomon shoes — there's a lot of rocker in that. \[51:31\] I don't want to wreck the shoes on him, so I'll just do a quick ten K in the morning to get a feel. But it's good to know what's out there. What I'm expecting with this one is a lot of rubber underfoot — how that's going to go on a technical trail, I don't know. But what I did like about the Spectre was exactly that, it was a nostalgic run for me with speed. I again think for people out \[52:01\] there, not at your level or my level, you'll feel like an athlete in these shoes. That was my takeaway — I found myself feeling like an athlete in these shoes, not like I'm getting a cheat shoe, not like I'm being helped along by everything. I loved them, it was good running, I'll definitely find a way to work them into rotation. Interesting note — today when I went out for my speed intervals, I was back in my Adidas Boston Elevens. \[52:31\] Yeah, I'm still in those — I feel that's the shoe around the half marathon distance, they feel like my fast shoes at the moment, that's what feels good. But I'll give the Salomons a try next time we've got a speed session. I got a new quiver of shoes literally last week — a few different pairs I like and I swap and change all the time. I can never work out exactly, but it depends on how I'm going and where I am in my running phase. When I'm feeling not great and running a bit heavy, I tend to go towards the more cushioned shoes, and when I'm \[53:05\] starting to get on my toes a bit more — that's why I was liking the Spectres last week — when I'm on my toes more, I start to go towards a bit of a harder compound. I still like the ground feel, I know that doesn't go perfectly with the new age of soft-and-recovery shoes, but I still feel better running when I can feel my foot on the ground, feel my foot movement. And if you're listening out there thinking "I want ground feel like Courtney," \[53:35\] just keep in mind Courtney's essentially been a professional athlete for the better part of twenty-five years or so, give or take. I reckon that's evidence of the conditioning your body's gone through over the years — you don't need that softness in your shoes, that's what it says to me. Well, that was good, glad you asked. Quickly, your little doohickey in front of you — does it tell you how long we've been rolling? \[54:05\] Fifty-four minutes. This is great, because the reason I asked — not to wrap us up, but Graham Snow, a fellow who's been listening to the podcast, has set himself the challenge this week to run for the duration of an episode. He knows we've been hitting about the hour mark lately, we're going to go a bit longer this week — but I just want to give him a shout out, Snowy, keep on pushing, we're not done but you've still got a little bit to go. We'll help you increase that mileage just really slightly this week, I \[54:35\] reckon. We did have another question that I found interesting, from Brett Quayle — he's definitely one of the more active crew on the OG group. His question was, can I ask what your thoughts are on how important gym and strength training is alongside your running? I'm glad you asked, Brett — that was the first part, and the second part \[55:06\] was, any advice for people who are injured and trying to come back from running, as he knows a lot of people have trouble coming back from injuries. So they're kind of the same question — not the same question, but I can answer it through the same lens. And then he says, love the podcast, always look forward to it coming out every week — we've kept our weekly schedule so far, we're sticking with it. Brett, I know this question isn't directed at me, so I'll shut up now — well, you're welcome, you're pretty built over there, you got some strength to shed, but anyway — talk to us about strength training. \[55:36\] I say this quickly — I see friends of mine trying to get into running who are our age, and I say, great, running's awesome, but you need to do strength training too, because if you try and run too much your body will break down, given however old you are and however unused to running you are. I agree, I think it's important to be doing something, and "something" is a wide word on \[56:07\] purpose, because I always come back to — the simple way I look at things is, it's all about consistency. Whatever you want to do, specifically if your goal is to run, the key thing that's going to help you is running. So depending on how much time you've got, I'd always prioritise running first and foremost. If you've got more time on top of that to do \[56:37\] something else, of course strength work in the gym is going to help. What you do within that strength work is very individual. At the basic level, I think activation work — and when I say activation work, you don't have to go straight to the gym and start doing squats with weights, deadlifts, split squats, because that's what a lot of people think of when you say gym, going straight to lift and build body mass. When we say activation work, it \[57:11\] can be things like bridges, core work. An exercise I just started doing off the back of some rehab I was doing, which I've never had much experience with, is a lateral step-up — a simple twenty-centimetre step, but instead of stepping up front-and-back like a box jump, you step out to the side holding a weight in the opposite hand. It's an amazing exercise to \[57:41\] engage your glute and start working on stability through the hips. Like we always say, go and get professional advice, work with someone, or if you want to YouTube or Google it, go ahead. But for me, the key one would be activation — if you can do some of those things before you go out to run, that's probably the key way to help avoid some of those injuries. The funny part about this is I told you this on one of our trail runs — it's weird the things that \[58:12\] take hold in your brain, that for whatever reason you read it, hear it or see it and it just lives there forever. This was years before I met you, I was still living in Sydney, and I have this weird memory of your pre-run warm-up routine on Instagram — I think it might've been for Boss Hunting or something. Yeah, yeah, and you showed the step out to the side \[58:45\] and drop down on one leg, side lunges I guess for lack of a better term, some walking lunges, and there was this whole — would've been a Swiss ball, like a bridge on a Swiss ball, lifting each leg individually. That was a big one we did over the years — I can't remember having a Swiss ball, but some really quick activations I can recommend — there's a range you can find, probably thousands of them on the net, but the ones I like use a rubber band or elastic, just simply doing \[59:16\] sidestepping, front-stepping and backwards — you can always have that in the car and do it before you run. Lay on your back and do a bridge, keep your hips level, lift one leg up, the other leg up, keep your hips level, hold it, do a few different ranges of that. The next step up from that is to use a Swiss ball, so you've got to stabilise through the upper body as well. That's probably been the key exercise over the years that I've done — and the brilliant part is when I first brought this up with you, you \[59:46\] laughed and said you don't reckon you'd done those activations. Right at the moment I can remember, because missing them for the past three years, being neglectful of anything, just trying to run — it finally caught up on me. It worked for a while, but it caught up, and I'm back to doing what I'm calling rehab, working off an injury we talked about, coming back from it doing the same activations you should be doing before you run whether \[01:00:18\] you're injured or not, to maintain it. No, look, we could talk for hours on that, but I think that's the key — next level up is strength training. But hopefully by now the consistency of what I talk about is coming through — unless you're a full-time professional athlete, prioritise what's important to you. I would much rather you go to the skate park with your kid than go to the gym on your own. \[01:00:51\] What I'll say to average runners like me — I've got a really simple routine that takes fifteen minutes when I do it, though I haven't done it much lately. But when I was recovering from a calf injury and trying to up my load, heavy dumbbell calf raises, bent-knee calf raises, working the two different muscles in your calf, and squats — those three exercises give me \[01:01:23\] enough strength through my legs to run as much as I want to at the moment, and that'll take you fifteen minutes at home. That's the key, right — how much do you need to do just to make sure you can do what you need to do. At the moment, some of that's trial and error. Thank you for the question, Brett, we appreciate it, and let us know if this presents more questions and answers, but you could \[01:01:53\] also go to someone who can help you look at your technique, someone with expertise in that area as well. Go to your run doctor — yeah, go to the run doctor. The key is still, the longer you can run uninjured, consistently, at a level you can maintain, that's going to be the biggest improvement in training. So simple — the best thing you can do is get to the start line uninjured. So I think we've got time for — we're going to try something. We've got time for something I've \[01:02:26\] been looking at a lot of IG Reels lately — Instagram, for the old people out there. There's a lot of, I think it's finally coming full circle, a lot of parody on running at the moment coming through. We've hit peak piss-take mode. I don't think that means the bubble's burst — if anything, it means running culture is now hitting mainstream culture, \[01:03:02\] because now the everyday Joe or Jill can take the piss out of runners, and it's getting funny. So what do you reckon we do — we'll do one this week, one next week — we've got Strava, or the running-around-Australia one. I think running around Australia is where we want to go, because it relates to something we talked about a couple of episodes back around Nedd Brockman and the fame he has. We talked about the Lambros brothers as well, and I think this Instagram reel you're about to share takes the piss beautifully. Let's see if I can — let's see if I can actually get \[01:03:33\] this to work. Good luck, it's not — "day one hundred of running across Australia, thank you everyone for being a part of this journey, it means so much to have your support and raise so much money for such—" what's he doing, I think he ran across Australia — "oh guys, thanks so much, give me a big moment, what do you do, get up, I just ran across Australia for charity." Oh, you're Nedd Brockman? No — he was so impressive, one of the Lambros guys. No, no, you're both of them — I mean, where's the crowd at my finish line? Are you Catman? Who? Okay, how much did you raise? \[01:04:03\] "A hundred and thirty-five bucks, but I had to buy Powerade, so six-fifty." Which charity? "Barley." What trip, I'm going soon, where's the news? "I mean, I have two broken legs." They're probably doing a Nedd thing. "We got the first two people to not run across the country." "Well, yeah, it took a lot of dedication, we just wanted to be different." "For charity." Oh, you're kidding, "we're done guys, that's day one twenty" — oh see, everyone's doing it, running across Australia — "back, oh, thanks for coming, means the world you guys, mum, I'm gonna be on the news tonight." \[01:04:33\] "Yeah, I know six, but I couldn't have done it without you." "Are you one of the Lambros?" "No, no, he's both." "This — I'm doing it again, I'm running across Australia and back, you guys gonna be — when I get back, alright guys, day one of run across Australia again, but this time I'm gonna hold my breath — the whole holding-his-breath-didn't-run-across-Australia thing, spotted." Yeah, we're on the news, it is so good. That is so good — those parody guys are brilliant, they've got a really nice beat on taking the piss out of sport in particular. Yeah, we've talked a lot about \[01:05:05\] this area, and someone could be running across Australia backwards right at the moment. I think there's someone running across Australia barefoot — where does it stop, mate, where does it stop. And Lucky McIntyre as well, he was doing some stuff for Red Bull down at cliff diving on the weekend, he's a funny guy, I think that's why it popped into my \[01:05:37\] story — that is a perfect piss-take of running at the moment from an ultra perspective, because I laugh at it sometimes when I see stories about, "this guy's about to break the record for running—" oh my, I didn't even know he was doing it, there's a guy who ran the length of Africa, and did you know the other day someone ran around the circumference of Australia and broke the record as well? It's wild. You know where they should be — \[01:06:07\] one of Noosa Trail Ultra or Mount Wellington, the races are on in March, they should be doing Coast to Coast, that's probably as far as it goes, there's all the backyard ultras and everything else, making people race, mate — you can't, the one thing you can cheat is Strava, yeah, you can cheat Instagram — oh no, oh no, Courtney's getting on his — the one thing you can't cheat is a race. We'll leave it there, alright, we're out of here. If you're enjoying the podcast, we thank you for your support. \[01:06:38\] Best thing you can do for us is spread the word — subscribe on Spotify or Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts, leave us a rating and a review, it helps us grow. Share it with a mate, share it with family, friends, whoever they are, if they're about to start their running journey. We want to keep celebrating this running and activity movement we've got going on here at the moment. Of course, we'll see you next week.