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# The Sun Got Beaten & The Chainsaw Came Out | EP 89
- URL: https://www.inthebeginningpodcast.com/ep-89-the-sun-got-beaten-the-chainsaw-came-out/
- Published: 2026-06-05T06:00:00.000Z
- Updated: 2026-08-21T01:21:46.000Z
- Description: Courtney Atkinson and Liam Flanagan on Gold Coast Marathon, Race the Sun, run clubs — recorded on the Gold Coast.
- Author: Courtney Atkinson
- Tags: Episodes, Main Feed, Gold Coast Marathon, Trail Running, Running Training, #Import 2026-07-28 20:58

*Race the Sun almost didn't happen — a storm the night before dumped a tree across the road, and Courtney's wife's chainsaw ended up doing more for the event than any contingency plan. Everyone still got home safe, and Courtney and Liam open by dissecting what actually made it work compared to the wave of made-for-social "activation" running events chasing the same audience. Courtney also teases a new grassroots series he's got inside knowledge on.*

*From there the conversation drifts into sport-business territory: AFL's salary-cap dependency versus the English Premier League's open market, and a half-serious pitch for shoe-category handicap racing, F1-constructors-style, to make elite fields more watchable for everyday runners. It gets personal in the back half — Courtney walks through the exact session Australia's marathon record holder handed him (which he then ran himself the following Sunday), before the pair debate who actually has it harder: a sprinter repeating fast reps, or a distance runner grinding out a hard 5K over and over. They close one month out from the Gold Coast Marathon.*

## In this episode

- How did Red Bull Race the Sun survive a storm, a fallen tree, and an emergency chainsaw run?
- What's the new grassroots running series being teased — and who's behind it?
- AFL's salary cap vs the English Premier League's open market: which model actually works?
- Could shoe-category handicaps make elite marathon fields more watchable?
- The exact session behind Australia's marathon record — and who's got it harder, a sprinter or a distance runner?

## Timestamps

- **\[00:00\]** Race the Sun debrief: storm, downed tree, chainsaw rescue
- **\[12:36\]** A new grassroots running series gets teased
- **\[21:52\]** The "Guardians League" idea and a pitch for a Sunday Hero award
- **\[25:08\]** AFL salary caps vs the English Premier League's open market
- **\[31:20\]** Could shoe-category handicaps fix elite marathon racing?
- **\[40:45\]** The session behind Australia's marathon record
- **\[50:11\]** Sprinter vs distance runner: who's actually working harder?

## Listen

## Related In The Beginning episodes

- [EP 88 — Red Bull Race The Sun, Rain Bombs & Marathon Madness](https://www.inthebeginningpodcast.com/ep-88-red-bull-race-the-sun-rain-bombs-marathon-madness/) — the lead-up to this one
- [EP 90 — Claude AI x Strava Thinks Courtney Is Cooked](https://www.inthebeginningpodcast.com/ep-90-claude-ai-x-strava-thinks-courtney-is-cooked/) — the marathon countdown continues
- [EP 87 — Gold Coast Marathon 'Experiment' Update: Six Weeks Out](https://www.inthebeginningpodcast.com/ep-87-gold-coast-marathon-experiment-update-six-weeks-out-the-marathon-panic-beg/) — earlier in the buildup
- [The Gold Coast Marathon guide](https://www.inthebeginningpodcast.com/gold-coast-marathon/)

## Full transcript

Auto-generated transcript. Timestamps approximate. Hosts: Courtney Atkinson & Liam Flanagan.

**Read the full transcript** 

\[00:00\] In the beginning episode 89, Courtney, It's a strange feeling today because my laptop's cactus. So I'm going with the old school pen and paper and you have down the laptop in sympathy. I've got nothing in there. There's a reason you've got nothing in there, and that's where we should start. Race the sun, Red Bull, Race the Sun. How was it? Well, and the success is we had no incidents. Right. Everyone got home safe.

\[00:31\] If you haven't seen it on socials yet, you're probably not following running 'cause it has been. It was success. You're struggling with that word, aren't ya? I'm still trying to think so I don't recognise I slept. Hey, you know I shouldn't be complaining to you about sleep, should I? How long did you do you? Oh, you were 38? But when did you go to sleep after that? Oh, probably an hour. 2 hours after I finished. So yeah, 40 hours. Yeah, I reckon I did a similar stint good, with only about half an hour break in the car and

\[01:03\] then another hour. Except I didn't. But I wasn't running, No, but I didn't have to worry about driving a car though. The car's the least of my problem. The stress. Like I said last time, it's just watching everyone on roads and managing like those in the race. Yeah. Or the participants in the race. Don't know this but I got it all. Could have collapsed very early in the day, probably about 3 to 4 hours in. We went through the parks and it was a single lane Rd and

\[01:34\] funny enough I'd gone out there because I was a little bit worried about the causeways and the rain and whether the roads were going to be under. So I actually shot down and did a 2 hour drive the night before the race just to clear this National Park and make sure it was all good. And you know what? Perfect. Yeah, great. The actual roads himself were worse with water than the actual park. When we went down the through there the next morning, I jumped ahead of the race just to triple check, you know, everything's good. Halfway through the park, bloody

\[02:04\] big tree across the road. No one was. No one. The runners would have been fine. No cars were getting through there. So my wife had been working down in the Northern Rivers the day before, and one of her clients just happened to say to her, probably really should take a chainsaw. Yeah. You know what? Yeah, probably needed a chainsaw. I had it. I did see the video of you firing up that I had it I. Had it mate and we used that chainsaw multiple times. It was windy and then I like and now look at the weather out here on the Gold Coast. It was this week would be perfect. So did anyone beat the Sun?

\[02:36\] Yes. Surprisingly, I made the course 10K longer, 1000 vert harder. Wow. And we had one of the repeat teams came in and they beat it by I believe about 16 minutes. And you know what, halfway through the race, I had them predicted to finish about an hour and a half after the sun. So they were front end of the course. Must have been a lot harder. They come home and then second team missed it by 4 minutes. Oh. 4 minutes.

\[03:06\] Amazing. So. But that's a. That's a. Bit more well designed that is a well designed that. Is a course well designed if one if the winners make it and 2nd place misses by 4 minutes, Yep, that is a. Well then we would have had I reckon 6 teams in within that hour. Yeah, fantastic. So. It was on the money. It was on the money, Liam. I did a was that I? I did a good job on that, Liam. No, I wouldn't. Being sincere for a moment, yeah, that must give you a genuine sense of satisfaction as a race director to execute a

\[03:39\] race like that and achieve that result. Yes, because it's a pain in the arse happening to get up at 3:30 or get up at 3:30, getting the whole team up at 3:30 in town going. We don't know whether they're going to come in at 4:15 or 630\. Like I'm not sure. I'm not sure because of the previous years. They've got into town like an hour and a half before the sun, which is, you know, 4:30 in the morning in a residential area. This was good. It was perfect. Has anyone has anyone, I don't wanna say stolen, but let's call it replicated the Race the Sun concept anywhere around the

\[04:12\] world since you've started it. Well, let's let's be clear that. Oh. You stole it. No, I didn't steal it, but everything is there's no there's nothing new under the nothing new. I mean, there's inspiration. Like the first thing I say is speed project. Yes, in the USI mean a lot longer. They get to choose their own route. I always wanted to bring it. That was inspiration to a degree, to a. Location. Coupled with this idea, I wanted to do some stuff in the trails, like the trails I get to run, which are really off track in the Gold Coast, in the land.

\[04:43\] Yeah. And I was just trying to work out the idea of how do I mesh all this together. Yeah, and the unique proposition, though, was this racist? And look, there might be other races. Out there does tourism QLD or Tourism Gold Coast or no city Gold Coast or don't get behind. This The beauty of this one is until we actually get out there this week, it's only the accepted participants who have any knowledge of this. I just feel like we always talk about the fact that you could not spend another of doll,

\[05:15\] another dollar of tour on tourism about the Gold Coast beaches. And I don't think it'd affect tourism at all because people know the beaches here and they're coming regardless. The opportunity exists for the Gold Coast in the hinterland. That's where you can in a. World you see in a world where. In a world. In a world. Sounds like a movie trailer. In the world where, yeah, we're in a world where we've, we mean, we talk about it every week. Everything's about look at me. You know, the reality is if you were running this event,

\[05:46\] there's. Two blokes sitting in front of cameras. Yes, exactly. So look at me. No, this is this is I mean, there's reasons behind why it's set up like this, but the reality is you, we asked for expressions of interest. We then accept those teams. OK, No one ever sees any. Unless you're accepted into that event, you don't get to see, you don't know the 'cause I don't know, you don't know the rules. All you get to see is the end output of all these people going out there and having a great amount of fun and showing all

\[06:18\] this content about them having a great event at Red Bull Race the Sun. And unless you're involved, you don't get. I love it. Yeah, I like it. You don't get to hang out with us on. Socials. No exclusivity. I like it. Well, no one's stolen your idea yet, Courtney, but someone's stolen another one of mine. All right, A. Scheme put them on the list. London Marathon still waiting by the way, but received a message from Tristan Wright. Tristan Wright on Instagram saying, Liam, pretty sure one of

\[06:50\] your schemes has been stolen. It's happening in Kilmore in 66 days, a last one standing mile event that hasn't been done before. Hundreds of athletes. And let's see if Courtney remembers when I pitched this idea. No. Racing around a horse track. The old Hippodrome OK an. 800 metre horse racing track at Kilmore Racing Club, 55 minutes north of Melbourne CBD. This is the mob who did the hardcore. Harry did the hill climb.

\[07:21\] These guys do a really they do great job on just like I just said, we don't go out and go over the top publicising their events. These guys so go the opposite way. I mean everything. I'll tell you a bit about it. A track, a stopwatch, 1 winner, a last one standing mile event that hasn't been done before. Hundreds of athletes just said all that. No heels, no trails, no excuses. Just you, the track and a clock that won't stop dropping from the team behind. King of the Hill. The same crew that sold out King of the Hill that was. Yeah. So yeah, One mile, 300 athletes run the mile, beat the cut off,

\[07:53\] do it again. Every round the cut off drops by 10 seconds. If you're not back across the line in time, you're out. No second chances. The clock decides. Two things. Love it. Yeah, that it's at a horse Ridge. Yes, that was the scam. This was a. Scam and it's it's brilliant that they've this would be I'm not sure is it a country track? Yes, not a big city. Track No, it's it's about an hour out of Melbourne. Because you know, the other night when we ran Wings for Life or a run, we're at Randwick. Yes, we can't run on the track. No, no, we gotta run around the

\[08:23\] horse yards. So this is great that they've got access to a track. I love it #2 we just talked about marketing and nothing's new. Kind of the cup at Nerang. Yeah, it's the cup format. Yeah, it's finding it's a, it's a track. Run a 1500 metre like a 15116 hundred run a run a lap Yep we cut some out next one let's go keep doing it Yep till we have a race but. Do you know what I love? I love that we're seeing more of this stuff. Yeah. Now I was talking to someone the other weekend about the reality of insurance premiums.

\[08:56\] And insurance premiums are what inevitably stops events becoming getting to a certain scale or surviving long term insurance. Insurance is the killer, right? That's what events end up costing all these people liability and all the rest of that or. Or closing down roads. But I still love the ingenuity, I love the creativity. I just love that there's so many people who want to try stuff in the running space so. And these are hard like the thing is, there's a lot

\[09:26\] of innovation around. I'm gonna call it Mickey Mouse style activation events we've talked about. Yep. But this is these events. They have the hook. Yep. You know, the horse track and everything, but they're still a bloody hard. Like it's, it's hard exercise, physical. You can go out there and thrash yourself. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're not getting away with just going along and, you know, dancing around or anything. So I like it. I like it. Well, on the Mickey Mouse event side of things, did you see the Treadmill Ultra Marathon?

\[09:58\] I saw. I did glimpse something. I saw a headline. Now, you've been obviously directing a race, so you might have been off a few of these bits and pieces, but this was, I think it was held over in London, I believe London, and they essentially ran the length of London to Japan, 24 hours on treadmills. So, but it was in a room. Yep, on a treadmill. So, well, I run the length of Britain to Japan.

\[10:30\] Tell me how long you're in to me. You didn't run from Britain to Japan? To me that's that is where and this is personal opinions, right? 100% yeah. And we're some. People, clearly there are people that would go, Oh yeah, that's cool, we're doing an ultra marathon. In my opinion, you're you're not. And that's an opinion that should matter as a Mila. Exactly. I can give these opinions forcefully now. No, I don't think that's an ultra marathon. I think you've run on a treadmill for a long time as

\[11:00\] part of a team. Yep. But that's not an ultra marathon. If you want to call yourself an ultra marathoner, strap your shoes on, walk out the door, don't go and jump on a treadmill, that I get. It would have looked really cool and I'm sure the brand behind it probably got some great. Was it a brand? Yeah. I think it was a brand, but to me, that one, I'd rather go out and see people run the hardcore Harry's longest Mile thing in Kilmore than in an aircraft carrier. Where is Kilmore? It's north of Melbourne. Oh, so it's Victorian? Yeah, Victorian.

\[11:31\] Yeah, yeah, yeah. So anyway, I just wanted to flag. That oh, the that was a good flag because I'm just gonna say it again. You didn't run from Britain to. Japan, you might have run the equivalent distance, but yeah, no, no, no. No. Why? There's a fair few war torn countries in between that. Strange. I don't think you can just claim. It also why Britain to Japan, why not just I think I ran 3 laps around Britain. I whatever anyway. Anyway, wanna flag something with you? Mm hmm. I know you're not a surf athlete, but you were a nipper

\[12:04\] and you went on to compete as a senior for the North Burleigh Surf Life Saving. Club, yeah, did a couple of little. You understand that world. To a degree. We've talked about at length about sporting organisations and leagues and all the rest of that and the reinvention and I think surf life saving in Australia and we talked about the push for it to become an Olympic sport and all the rest of it. Have you? Are you aware of the Guardians League concept? I'm not, I wasn't.

\[12:36\] Excuse me? I wasn't aware of the name. OK, But I did hear some rumblings while I was down at the local surf club having a coffee about a new series emerging. And I do know I actually know the person behind it. Yep. Do you? MMM OK, Well, for those not aware, the Guardians League is launching across Australia and New Zealand in 2027\. And it is the world's first global surf racing league. So clearly there's intention for this to go international beyond just New Zealand and Australia.

\[13:07\] But it is marketed as a city V City High octane surf racing championship, bringing the heat to iconic beaches around the world. Now I like this. This has got me in Full disclosure everything I've seen about this. I love it. What have you seen? About it 6 city based teams, 8 athletes per team, four women and four men competing across every event. So it is a true team event and I like the idea. It's giving me Big Bash vibes, it's giving me Indian Premier League advice. What's it called? Guardians League.

\[13:37\] That's the, that's the kind of, that's the sense I'm getting for it. It's teamifying beyond the traditional clubs. I'm just kidding. Guardians of the Galaxy. Sorry, Guardians League can't find it. Come. On but so the system the 6th there'll be 6 teams and the Guardians League is built around six city based franchise teams every each team competing across every race weekend of the season. So it's six teams.

\[14:07\] So it's more like a league. I'm gonna jump in. As you go, you'll be. Through here I see, I already see this presenting a problem. What, So six city based teams making the assumption that we're going here like Gold Coast, Newcastle, Sunny Coast, Sunnycote, whatever. Every Circle I Saver moves to the Gold Coast, Yeah. But that's not to say that they can't represent the other. Oh so. It's gonna be State of Origin vibes. I think you can probably go for well, OK, here's the next thing, right?

\[14:37\] And this is the bit I like. This is the bit that's got me excited about it. I'm trying to find the exact the way the team here we go, how the teams are built. And excuse me as I go to the Guardians League HQ. If you're interested in this, Guardians League HQ is the Instagram handle. Guardians League teams are led by a team principal, so there's going to be like AF1 and the coach, a manager. Yeah. Christian Horner. There you go. That's the. One team. Principal. Yeah. So with a background in one of the four Guardians League sports, principals are responsible for building and

\[15:07\] leading their team from day one. OK, so they're the boss. They're the team athletes will self nominate for selection. Team principals will. They'll will then build their roster through an athlete auction. OK, I like this. Each team principal bids to secure athletes with all six teams competing for the same pool at the same time. The auction will include dedicated selections for athletes from each team's home city or region. So let's break this down into a real life example. Let's say there is a Gold Coast team. Yes.

\[15:37\] OK, now Eve Callahan should be arguably the number one pick. He's Perth. Is he? No dad grew up in. Perth OK, well, but let's, but let's father, son, let's maybe, but let's work it out, right. And you know what? Let's, let's let's pivot cause 8th was is a is probably not the good example 'cause he's probably the number one pick as a blow. Yep. And Gold Coast probably don't get him as a homegrown talent sort of thing. Let's let's use trying to think

\[16:10\] of an alternative. You know what? Let's use Lucy Derbyshire, right. Lucy Derbyshire, Adelaide girl. OK, so let's say there's an Adelaide team, which I doubt there will be. But for the example, I believe Adelaide would get kind of like first preference to pick Lucy. And then if they choose not to pick her, she goes back into that pool. And I love this gamifying, this drafting, bringing surf life saving. Yeah, into a bit more of the

\[16:43\] popular culture with the way the league is presented. Yep, I'm excited, but I agree. What's your reaction when you hear about it? Just while we're on this bit of it, I love the idea, I think. And of course, sports have got to build, yes, right. You can't expect the first year to be like watching the NFL draught. The challenge I think is it might excite those in a different format that are already invested in Surf Lifesaver.

\[17:13\] But it's not going to bring in you. Or. But if you don't know, OK, If you're not, if you're not across the athletes, A draught isn't going to excite anyone, because you don't. If you don't know if you're outside of the draught, if you're outside of that sport, you don't know the athletes, it's the draught becomes to a degree irrelevant. So I think it's great for internally in the sport in the first years, but that's where you try and build up athlete profiles. And this is where the way I would, the thing I think you can then use the draught for is to

\[17:44\] create noise to bring people in, right? If suddenly if you walk past a shop front that you've never walked in before and you see a crowd, yeah. You'll you'll. Yeah. You inquire. Don't get me wrong. I love the idea. I love the idea. I just think, and this is, and you're gonna, you're gonna hear. You can probably already sense me being a bit pessimistic about this. Not pessimistic, but your enthusiasm is not matching mine. Let's. Just do it that way and the reason behind?

\[18:15\] That is, and this is what I wanna get to. We've seen it before, we've seen Now let as you've been an interesting one to ask Ali Day, 'cause I believe Ali broke his wrists doing. Yeah, he was doing that. He was doing the Rexona. No, no, no, no. He was doing an they would they tried to combine into. There was something around a series that they tried to combine High Rock style monkey bars and a range of things onto

\[18:47\] the beach within the surf comp. This would have only been within the last five years, Liam. 2020, what was it? Oh no, it was in 2019\. What was it? What was this called? What? Why did? Why did he break? His Ali Days Surf Life Saving Season preparations have been thrown into chaos after breaking both his wrists as a part of Surf Life Savings New Beach Warrior format. It is off to the worst possible start after a regrettable accident at a promotional shoot left six time calling out a gold

\[19:19\] champion LED with two broken wrists. What did he do? He. Fell off the monkey bars. He. Did it is understood that Day was attempting to perform a pose on a set of monkey bars half a metre above the ground when he fell onto a grass surface, causing the injury. Oh no. But that no, that's dip A don't put monkey bars like that's. No, but it isn't different Liam. It is surf life saving look. This is still keeping the. Sport I core I would surf my saving on triathlon. I grew up with them yes, they go

\[19:49\] hand in I thought you'd be they go they go hand in hand right. They go hand in hand, and I wish both of them every success possible. But there's a reality in today's sports ecosystem, yeah, that. So for life saving have tried to reinvent themselves multiple times since the Trevor Hendy you know, Kenny days, the Mercer days, the Phil Clayton days, you

\[20:20\] know. Being on Baywatch days. Baywatch days, exactly. You know, even Ky Hurst that was the last of the that real, you know, let's say Sunday afternoon heroes at home. Oh, I like that. I love that phrase. Sunday afternoon, heroes. That's what we need to bring back. But we say we need to bring it back. But I just the guy never say never.

\[20:50\] It's just they've tried multiple ways and multiple times. It's fallen. When sports are this is my belief is when sports are niche, A niche sport. MM. Hmm. Which you put surf life saving in, of course. Australian sport? Yep. And I'm gonna bring this back around to running by. The way, yeah, cool, awesome. The more with these with these style of sports, the more you differentiate and break it apart. Yeah.

\[21:21\] You're actually just diluting. The core? The core of what's? There, I see what you say. So if it actually emerged and worked, but we've seen this. Let's go to footy, right Super League. What happened? You when you dilute? Yeah, the core of a system to try and make something new. Yeah, live golf. Well, live golf is the is the example I had written down here. OK, and This is why I wanted to just quickly it an impromptu an impromptu scam.

\[21:52\] If the people behind Guardians League are watching or listening to this, Courtney has just given you a feature, right? You need to have an award within the Guardians like called the Sunday Hero, which is presented to the best performer on the Sunday day of racing. Whatever it looks like you need that needs to be a it's the Sunday Hero. I love the sound of that. That just gave me all the right tingles. To give just before we go on, 'cause like there'll be listeners and I think triathletes who listen and runners hopefully are interested. But with those sports that had

\[22:24\] the Sunday heroes for years and triathlon was in there, it was definitely free. ITV, it was in the early days when it was. You're a Sunday hero, mate. You're more of a Sunday morning hero though. You, I think you guys were on before the. PM We were 3:00 PM. Slots 3 to 5, three to Five Live. Three to Five Live. OK, what? What if you've watched them all those years ago? I'll give you a little like pull the curtain behind the scenes, the heydays of when they were great, they were private businesses, they were private

\[22:57\] organisations making this and I know this Guardian of the Galaxy 10 my. Goddess, you call it Guardians of the Galaxy as Guardians of the Ocean. Galaxy Guardians of the Ocean Guardians. I know that's it's it's kind of like, from my understanding, it might be a bit private, but then they've also got to work with surf life saving. The reality is when the reason it worked so well in the early days was 1, you didn't have choice. So what showed up on TV is what everyone had to watch, so you were forced to watch it. So you created sports because you paid to get on TV.

\[23:29\] The second part of it was run by private organisations as a business and they made business decisions to make money and that's how they used to run business back when it was triathlon and surf life. Saving and that's not how it's being run at the moment. Organisations, What's the main thing? That is their purpose. Which organisations we. Talking any organiser like government organisation, clubs, sporting organisations, what is their main purpose for being there is participation. It's their members, it's their clubs, and with that comes

\[24:03\] equity and fair Equity and fair doesn't make good business. And that is my reason why I say I'm I'm not as excited as you because. That's really interesting. I'm seeing over time good businesses run when they run it as a business and that doesn't equate in today's world in some of these sports to equity and fair. That's so interesting. The comparison that jumped into my head then is that the AFL, which has an equalisation

\[24:36\] strategy in the draught, right, That at its core is designed to keep fairness within the competition. And most of the AFL teams, as we discovered during COVID, wouldn't survive without the funding from the AFL, right? The AFL is a very successful business but the clubs themselves are propped up by the league, right? Collingwood, West Coast, Richmond, Adelaide and maybe Sydney I think are the four that they said if the AFL season

\[25:08\] doesn't go ahead this year, every other team would go under, essentially because they're all funded by the AFL. English Premier League on the other hand, no draught system, no equalisation, although they have introduced the FIFA financial fair play rules in the last couple of years. OK. And you saw the same teams win and win and win again. I don't know if that means they were doing good business or they just had the deepest pockets, but. But interesting. But there's then my question, well, not my question observation is, does EPL, is it a great business and sport?

\[25:40\] Do they make, is it like it's a spectacle, right? Well, it's one of the best football leagues in the world and it's a business. Yeah, and it's a business. Would you? Just as a thought with the world major marathons or even the Gold Coast Marathon, let's stay local. You know how in cross country back at school and probably cross country still at the international level, we see it. There's it's teamified. Yeah. Could you introduce teams into the major marathons or Gold Coast Marathon?

\[26:12\] Like in a cross country style run. Where it's, you know, like, OK, let's hypothetically say Sebastian Sawe at London is part of Team Africa for like a more nuanced team name, I mean. Do you know what I reckon would Fly is at it as first Nike first. Now we're talking, Now we're. Talking I mean that's Eckon and relays, right? Yeah, that's why in to a degree, I mean they're colleges, but. But wouldn't it be called like, you know, branded teams, It'd be great that you could put. It's the constructors championship.

\[26:42\] Yep, we've got it. Yeah, the running races, the marathons need to. And here's the other thing. OK. Oh, gosh, you've got me excited. Now it's not just the elites. When you sign up for a marathon, you register your shoes. See, I like where you're going. You. Register your shoes. I think the one thing in running most people identify with. Shoes you're running. Is your shoe you're running in? It's so important. And if you at the OK, well, let's just play this out for a second.

\[27:13\] Because the reality is it's the only piece of equipment. You need to run you. Need. So it's the main thing. Exactly everything. And it's the one thing people will invest in if they can do so. Now you've just made the decision running Nike Alphaflys for the Gold Coast Marathon, correct? That's what's in my cupboard at the moment. Yep. Now let's imagine that we're on your sign up, but you have the ability to go into your portal before race day and update and enlist in Team Nike. Then another. What about an active scoreboard at the finish line, which, like

\[27:43\] the Constructors Championship, is showing Adidas Nike that as the finishers come across with points being accrued, obviously the pointy end finishes. The more finishes, the hot more points you gain. But every finisher that crosses the line in a pair of shoes registers a certain amount of points for that team, and then there's a constructors declared at the end of every. Month, I think it would create such interest. I think this would, I mean, this is something for the shoe companies to go and but the

\[28:13\] issue is just like the F1 constructors championship, some shoe companies would love it, Others don't want to be involved, but they're like, they're like, no, no, it's like changing the rules of the constructors championship. Like, you know, we're on the upper hand here. We don't want to go back to the old engine. But to bring it in? What? How exciting. I like I love your idea around the elite. I think they could add another element to it because we all sit there and watch a major marathon and after it go, oh, you'd look

\[28:45\] at what are they wearing for sure. He's like they just broke the two hour record. And they got this, Yeah. Yeah. So I think there would be real interest around an elite shoe, elite shoe teams and who they're running. And I mean, it's already kind of AI mean shouldn't give ideas away. You could probably create this as like some type of fantasy league right now because, you know, they're all running in their shoe tops at the moment. What shoes they're in, They'll be the same uniform they're wearing. And you can pretty much do this without the help of the race anyway.

\[29:16\] If you knew the top, you know, 30 starters in the field. Yeah. But I do also like your idea of some type of, because I wanted a shoe count, right? Some type of overall system that says today at we'll just use Gold Coast as the example today at this marathon, Gold Coast Marathon or Melbourne Marathon, whatever it is. Legitimately, Yeah, Nike won the shoe. Or at the Gold Coast Marathon. You know what? Highly likely. ASICS have. Killed the shoe count, Yeah. And they've won at the Gold

\[29:48\] Coast Marathon. And there was, you know, yeah, 35% of people wore. ASICS, I think there's something there's an opportunity here for race organisers to get around. I love the idea of a constructor's championship for the shoe companies at the majors. Just at the majors. Just started at the majors. Yep. Because then with seven you can declare an overall winner as well. Would that change your shoe choice? I look maybe. If you knew, if you knew you were going to a marathon and

\[30:20\] there was going to be a like a shoe, like a shoe telly. So there's a little bit of a, you know, today it was the, you know, Nikes on top of the thing or ASICS today at the Gold Coast Marathon on top of the thing. Would you be more inclined to want to be part of the pack? Course I would. Or the other thing, maybe I'd go, Nah, let's let's go on. Bring in the ONEMIX. Bring in the. Well, I get to these Chinese for. Anyone wondering what 1 mix is? It's a Chinese shoe that costs 110 bucks A. 100 bucks off and I ran in and it was great. It was.

\[30:50\] I felt fast. Oh, they're selling them still. There's I'm pretty oh, OK. I think there is so much scope now. I think that we always talk about marathons for the most part now are about the experience for the athlete because the popularity has driven the entries to a point and a half marathons to the point where they don't have to worry about promoting the event to entries, right. They know they're going to get participants. Now it's about experience. I think you've got a real opportunity around your shoe

\[31:20\] game to make the runners, the participants from the very slowest to the very fastest, feel even more invested in the day by the footwear they've got. I'm on board. You've sold me. I like this one. You've sold me. Hey, I'm just looking at your top. Mighty Gold Coast Suns. Anyone who's we always put the video up on Spotify special by. The way I had to pay 110 bucks for. It really. It's pricey. You go to the club every. Month and I know you and you think. You think that throw? You think Alex Rigby, You think

\[31:52\] you throw your bloody free top? No freebies ask for. I looked at it and when I walked in I was like, what are you? What soccer jersey are you wearing? It's great. It's interesting. I like, I love it's. Obviously, New Balance, yes. So bring it back to running New Balance team. Yep. Yeah, I'm not sure. You're not sure. I love the way they went on this. I think it couldn't be more Gold Coast. I think it's something that I don't the. People working for them though I. Don't recall seeing this soccer

\[32:22\] setup executed by a footy team before an AFL team. Have you seen others wearing? It I think it's most, I think, do you know who I think is actually responsible for a lot of this soccer merch is Oasis on this most recent tour when they reformed, it was a lot of soccer influenced merch. And since then the Suns have done it. Maddie Johns and Cooper, their son, his son on their podcast. They both they've brought out

\[32:54\] some soccer based merch too. So it's it's the style of the day. It's the style of the day. Hey, can I tell that story at golf? The talking about pink? Remember, we were playing golf the other week at the Sun's partnership day. Yes. And I the guys playing in front of us and I'm like, I'm sure that's funny. I am sure. Definitely tell that story. So we're playing. We're probably played, what, about six or seven holes behind this team in front of us? Yeah, we've been behind them all day. Couple of the young crew in the team were wearing like look like they work for Gold Coast Suns.

\[33:25\] They had the Gold Coast and then there was a like a quite a flamboyant gentleman who was hitting the bloody golf ball well by the way. And I kept saying to Liam, I've got I can't, I've got to work out who this guy is. He's definitely a creative. And then the colours he was wearing, I'm like, I'm going to put money on it that he's the guy behind the Suns' pink. Now, the way you were hitting the ball that day, you probably shouldn't have backed yourself in with anything, no? No, no, I probably should have known the answer right, that I was going to get it wrong.

\[33:57\] Yes, or very left actually I was going very. Right. You were around me. You were. You were wrong, but you were kind of right. Yeah, 'cause he were also, I couldn't help myself in the end and I went up to him and introduced. Yeah, well, just wondering, you look like you're a guy who designs things. You're not behind the pink Gold Coast Suns stuff, are you? To what he answered. No, no, I'm not. No. However, have you seen the green jackets? Now he makes their formal wear. He makes the Gold Coast Suns suits, basically all their club suits he's responsible for and

\[34:28\] the jackets that were given out in the day, so you're around the. Night and I am confident they're very nice. Jackets. Oh yeah, he's a sharp dressed man. Yeah, look what sporting fashion has never been in a better place. Yeah, like I love with sporting fashion. I love. I question for you and we promise we'll get back to some more running chat in a second. But the when players we see it in the NBA and the WNBA, they do it really well when the players

\[34:58\] are allowed to turn up and the NFL, American sports, of course, they do this well. Players are allowed to turn up dressed in their own clothes as they see fit. Would you like to see it in Australian sport? Why not? I agree. I mean it adds another element. I mean, they do it. They do it to the, I suppose, dinners and things like that. Why wouldn't you rock up at the stadium like that? It's good. Do you want to run the story? Hun, Yeah, let's get, let's get back. To some running. Let's get back to some running. I am still not running, but I

\[35:28\] that doesn't surprise. But I've been for a run. OK, let me explain the story. I my knee is still no good. Like it's still genuinely like it's improving. I can feel it improving, but it's improving very slowly. And what's the problem? Like ITB, yeah, still I've still, I've got to go to the physio again to get another kind of check in on it. But yeah, it's still all around that outside of the of the knee and it's still just really, it's still, you can see it visibly, it's inflamed. Do you want to fix that? You've you've been watching it.

\[36:01\] I'm sorry, I wasn't paying attention. Courtney's, Courtney's just got angry at me because the camera mic, the camera that's on me is cut out. I don't know how long that's been out for. We'll keep all this in the podcast. How long ago do you reckon it went out? Did it miss the explanation about my pink shirt? Anyway, here it is. Sorry, I think it was on when I was doing the pink shirt because I could recall seeing it. Anyway, we'll keep. Joining again Liam's pink. Shirt So I'm wearing a pink shirt. What was I talking about? Running so ITB outside of the

\[36:34\] left knee still the soreness to touch has gone, which is great, but it's still behind the knee and everything's still a bit funky so I'm not in a running place. I mean, that's to be expected. Totally expected but here's the interesting part. I had to drop my car off for a service. Now I walked home from the car for service and I was waiting at home and I fell asleep. Now Alana had left to go and get the kids. I woke up at 3:45 with a missed call from.

\[37:06\] Said car service. From the mechanic that is around the corner from my house and they said your car's ready. We close at 4:00\. So I the only way for me to get there was to walk, but I'm just looking up. I want to get the exact distance from my house to this so you get a sense of OK, so I straight away I'm shoes on, right? It's 3:45\. They shut at four.

\[37:38\] Walking there is 2.9 K. It's a fair hike. How long do you think it took me? Well, you said you got up at quarter to. So no, I'm out the door. I've got 15 minutes from leaving my house to their door to their shut. You're not gonna walk it in 15 minutes. No, I did not. No, you would have to start shuffling. Mm Hmm. I'm tipping. It took you 14 minutes. Took me 20 minutes to run there. And were they?

\[38:08\] Open, they waited for me, but as I was running, and this is the running aspect of it, and you talk about recovery and I think this is an important message for anybody that takes on just something that they haven't done before. If it's further or faster, whatever it is, the recovery process. I haven't run for 2 1/2 weeks now. And I had actually said to Alana when I got home that day, jeez, I'm actually starting my knees feeling a lot better. I'm starting to feel pretty good. And then this run took me 20 minutes to run. 2.9 Ki could not run.

\[38:41\] I was hobbling the whole way, and it wasn't just and it wasn't that my knee was hurting my quads. Still 2.9 KS of flat running my quads felt like I had been. I had done three sets of my Max. You've got you've got some serious trauma going on still. That my chords are nowhere. That was my body. It was. It was a good way to check it, actually. Yeah, my body's going nut. Not yet, not yet, not yet. So my running journey is still very much down the track.

\[39:13\] Yeah. Anyway, how's your running journey? Well, if. You want to go back and listen to Wednesday's EP and we chatted to Benita. Yeah, we went in to probably the best deep dive I've gone into my running. It was, it was a really good listen. It was good to sit there and watch you and listen to you beneted talking about you 'cause it's the I think it's the most I've ever seen you as an listen to someone. No, but be coached. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The most I've ever seen you be coached for someone who is so not, I don't wanna say pigheaded, but very you're single minded. Say that you're single minded

\[39:45\] about your own. Yes, yeah. I mean, I because that's, well, my own training, Yeah. But I always, I'm single minded about it because I love the puzzle myself. Yeah, so I like take information, but I still want to make the decisions myself. Whereas in this case, and the way I've approached it, I've let go of so much of that anyway. You know, the fact if you said to me train for a marathon and only your maximum, you're going to run 75K in a week, I go, well, that's useless, why would you do that? But here we are.

\[40:15\] And I've said I'm going to let go of all that and we're going to go and see, you know, how this works. But knowing that I'm always, I don't, I'm then like, well, I want to know as much information and this as I can and use the experts. And I think Benita, what's unique about Benita? So if you think we talked to Andy last Wednesday, Andy Buchanan, who is the current fastest Australian male marathoner. And half? Or has he lost that record? No, he's, he's got that. He's definitely got the, you know, he's got the all comers record, so he must have the

\[40:45\] Australian record too. I mean, even if he. Didn't have that record. He's still the. Quickest marathon in the country. So you've got him telling me his sessions, which I went out and did it last Sunday. Yeah. For those who haven't listened to Wednesday, the session I did on Sunday after being out, you know, for 48 hours nearly in the car around Red Bull race the sun and not sleeping. Went out, rent 2 hours at a moderate aerobic pace into 20 minutes at marathon effort. Not as quick as I would have

\[41:15\] liked in the marathon effort, but hey, that's, that's life. So I've got him. Tell me one thing. But then you've got Benita, who you could argue, you know, was the Australian record holder for the marathon, probably our greatest of the our only ever world cross medallist. Yes, you know, you're talking about two. Not gonna get information much better than these two. The difference with Benita, though, is she spent the last, I'm gonna argument say 10 years or so also coaching everyday

\[41:46\] runners from every walk of life. She's had kids. Well, she's got kids, not had kids. She currently has kids. So she understands all of that has her own business, lace up running. All of this goes in and she So I'm kind of like, it was interesting when I walked out after talking here on the pod with her and we were kind of like a even more open and I'm like, oh, what do you like? Do you reckon I'm that's you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna have to be that pedestrian. And she's like, well, probably no.

\[42:19\] Yeah, but why not just be safe and get through it? And this and it comes back around to the conversation we had a couple of weeks ago about DNF versus DNS And the I still, I've been thinking about apologies to the fellow who's up north who coaches Nippers, but he gave us the analogy or the adage that he tells his Nippers who he coaches of. Oh, that's right. Better to finish than to not,

\[42:51\] and better to start or something like that I think. It was better. Better to start to get on the start line than not at all. Yeah, better to finish than not at all. Worse things not to try. That was it, Something like that. I like that one. Yeah, something like that. Yeah. I'll tell you a quick story on that session. So that was Andy's suggestion that session, yes, session. And I'm probably gonna skew towards Benita's suggestion for the second session in a couple of weeks. And interestingly, I went out on Sunday night to go and run that session after being, like I

\[43:22\] said, being away for the whole weekend. Went out kind of into dust and then rain at night, which is always one of my favourite things to do. I especially along the Esplanade, just like, you know, you feel quick. I wasn't as quick as I felt. You would have looked rapid to. I know what it's like to see pace, to see runners go past me at that pace. It looks so fast. It feels so fast. Especially if you're running and seeing someone going past that quick, you're like hold. Them from. Yeah, it is. Why? Why? Why? What's? The deal. I'll set it out mate. What's he doing all that bro? What's he stolen? So interestingly, by

\[43:55\] coincidence, one of the guys I'm racing when I talk about racing at the Gold Coast Marathon, Tim Rigby, who helps me with my gym stuff. He did by chance exactly the same session on the Sunday morning, two hours into 20 minutes. Now Tim's been running bloody, he can run a 5K in under 16 minutes. Quite concerned at the moment. So his speed is way better than me. However, when I looked and compared this, we had exactly to the second the same average pace

\[44:29\] for that two hours 20\. We both averaged 4 seventeens. Exactly kidding. The difference though was his marathon effort at the back end. Quick was well, quicker he was. So I think my average pace for the 20 minutes and then was 340 sevens. I think he was down towards the like the early 340\. So he's. Probably 6 or 7 seconds. I just front ended the aerobic side of it a little bit quicker going into that effort. So what does that mean?

\[45:03\] Like what's the better session? I have no bloody idea That is This is why we run, right? This is why we all go and do this stuff. I don't what's the better outcome? I don't know is like if you said to me someone I'm I'm gonna go and try and run with. And I still think Tim will run at a he'll he'll go out at a quicker pace than what I would plan to. But his speed base is 100% way more better than me at the moment. But I asked him like, how would you run? He said, you know, I ran the back end and it was probably not as easy as I wanted, but it was

\[45:34\] comfortable. And I was the same. I was like, I wasn't flat out, but far out. I didn't really, you know, if I had to hold that 20 minutes for a marathon, I was like, Gee, this is gonna hurt, which is probably meant to be right, But these are all the questions. And what makes it so fun to get out there and be on the start line and get to the start line? We're a month out. We're a month out as people listening to this. We are a month out from the Gold Coast Marathon, the ASICS Gold Coast Marathon. So there are people we this now becomes the Gold Coast now becomes the focus of the

\[46:04\] marathoning world. We start to look at this. There's a lot of excitement around it. I'm I can't wait. I'm so excited that you're running it all. I've got my wife's running and my brother in law's running and there's all these people that I know running and I'm genuinely thrilled that and we started having people from the pod send messages through about where they're running, how they're running, what they're targeting, and tell me a little bit about their story. So I'm trying to compile as many of those as I can. Yeah. Do you know one of the biggest changes? Cause I've been running down the

\[46:35\] Esplanade, actually down near your work, starting always at Carowa and running the Esplanade a fair bit more 'cause I want to also get my legs ready for concrete. Yes. So I haven't been running in the trails quite as much, but the biggest difference this year I've noticed to previous years is there's not this massive change. Like suddenly you'd get a month out from the Gold Coast Marathon and you'd be like, holy shit, there's runners everywhere. Yeah, there's just runners everywhere full time. I'm not, I'm actually not noticing that much difference between Gold Coast Marathon coming up or New Year's. Well, New Year's Day is probably

\[47:08\] a bad example, but like middle of January. Yeah, it's a, there's a, there's a this now you know, we've talked about it in various different guises about it should be the Australian Institute of Sports. It's just here now, right? The this place, there is no better place in Australia for all round training, all year round. And from an average person perspective, this city is about being outside. This city is about being outside. And with the run boom and bubble, and it's interesting to

\[47:38\] note, I feel like the noise around run clubs has tempered somewhat around here. But I don't think it's diminished the amount of people running. I feel like a lot of people may have. I'd be curious to hear from run clubs if they've seen a slight drop off in the amount of people because I feel like a lot more people are kind of independently running. Yeah, well, I'm, I'm, I'm not sure I had an interesting to come back to Red Bull Race's son on the weekend. So we have. Put a nice little bow on it. We started with yeah. Yeah, so just an observation and I had Henry, who's a doctor here on the Gold Coast, was out runs

\[48:10\] in Nerang and hangs around with the North's crew. He was driving for them and he came up after the event. He said to me it's, it's refreshing because he said what surprised me about the event is the range of different runners here. So the team who won, we're a group of 23 year olds from Sydney who they run and like I had a chat to a few of them. Some of them want to run a bit more ultras, but they're new to running. Some are just more, we run a bit, but they're more in the gym

\[48:40\] and like they killed it because they take, they attack it in a certain way where they do very quick change overs and they're not, it's not distance running necessarily. They're repeating. So it's like it's repeating gym running. You know what it's like Hyrox. Well, it's even shorter than Hyrox. You're kidding. No. So during the night. So we the way the event works is there was one leg I put so they had to run the well someone had to one of one from each team had to run the border trail SO11K and it's not easy and it was

\[49:11\] muddy and it was shitty. So you got that thing. Then there's 10K sections on the road and everything else. One section I thought was 13 K, so I stuffed up was ended up being 16 K and it had 1000 vert in it. And it was like a wall. So there's running real running involved. But when night time hits and the country roads get clearer traffic and I mean there's zero people out there. It's at that time the real event starts because they start to, they're using GPS like transponder. That's how they would call it,

\[49:41\] the relay baton and they might get the car 100 metres up the road, get a runner out, he takes the bat and he runs 100 metres. The next guy's there and they just 100 metres, 100 metres, 100 metres, 100 metres. So it's a real. Strategy thing, they're bolting, but The thing is because there's six of them, they're getting one in six rest. So think of doing 100 metre, like relatively hard 100 metres and do that unless it's for every 3 minutes. Yeah. How long can you do that for

\[50:11\] verse doing a hard 5K and repeating that every hour? What's easier? That's the question. Well, clearly. Quite clearly, the sprinter is the. Sprinter is, yeah. Or they're more efficient. More efficient, Yeah. But going back to Henry, he said it's surprising because as that event, it as a like a major endurance event, it tracked attracts all different walks of life. And that was he's met Hyrox guys who are running, you know, let's call them the influencers. We're all in there.

\[50:42\] Let's call it the and he's like, you know, I'd normally be in an event and it's just all these nerdy, sorry, trail runners, but I'm a trail runner. It's all of the, you know, us, our trail runners guys, this is so refreshing because you know, we've got everyone from runners to Hyrox to influences to people who are just getting out there running all in one event or with the same purpose. And I think that is where running to bring it full circle is at the moment. It's not about trending run clubs, it's not about the

\[51:14\] hardcore old runners. It's like there's a place for everyone. And on that note, enjoy the episode. We'll see you next week. One month to go till the Gold Coast Marathon right here at home. Courtney's gonna be racing. I'll be there on the finish line. New Gold Coast Marathon episode coming out Wednesday. Yes, we'll see you then.