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# EP 81 - WHEN TRAINING GETS TOUGH
- URL: https://www.inthebeginningpodcast.com/ep-81-when-training-gets-tough/
- Published: 2026-04-10T06:00:00.000Z
- Updated: 2026-08-20T11:53:29.000Z
- Description: Courtney Atkinson and Liam Flanagan on Olympics & 2032, UTA & ultras, T100 — recorded on the Gold Coast.
- Author: Courtney Atkinson
- Tags: Episodes, Main Feed, Olympics, Ultra Running, Triathlon, #Import 2026-07-28 20:58

*Courtney Atkinson and Liam Flanagan on Olympics & 2032, UTA & ultras, T100 — recorded on the Gold Coast.*

## Listen

Listen on [Spotify](https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/inthebeginningpodcast/episodes/EP-81---WHEN-TRAINING-GETS-TOUGH-e3hj3qm?ref=inthebeginningpodcast.com) or [Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-81-when-training-gets-tough/id1772010786?i=1000760713987&uo=4&ref=inthebeginningpodcast.com).

## Full transcript

Auto-generated transcript. Timestamps approximate. Hosts: Courtney Atkinson & Liam Flanagan.

**Read the full transcript**

\[00:00\] In the beginning episode 81 Courtney Atkinson, how are you? Good. How good is it to be post Easter? Get a little bit of a break. How was your Easter long weekend? It was busy, I did a bit of travelling around. I was out the out West, out the back of Warwick at one stage back here on the coast now had some swims. We can chat about that a little bit later in the year. We. Went for a a little marathon swim 10K which we want to talk about. Some people didn't believe that I swim 10K.

\[00:30\] Some people who do don't know you. No, didn't believe me. No, the people who know. Me well, that surprises me that anybody that knows you would the idea that you. Would do it. So Monday, yeah, Easter Monday, Easter Monday, I've been away. Easter Monday came back to the Gold Coast, jumped in at Burleigh with a group toyed out or organised it, but salt water swimmers and we swim from Burleigh to surface in one hit. Awesome. We had some guys, some of the kids went out on some boards and took some drinks and that for us and would have been about 15 of us there's.

\[01:00\] Nothing wrong with people bringing you no no. No Carla Gilbert out the front. Absolutely like putting the pace on. But she's still just absolutely fish. Yeah, she was the one pushing the pace for sure. And then we had, you know, we had some ex AFL players, AFL crew. It is a mix mixture of all sorts, but yeah, a few people saw it and went you didn't swim 10K and I know the reason why they suggested it. Because on the land. Because on the land that isn't 10K. No, no, nothing to do with that. It was about me personally.

\[01:31\] Oh, why? Why wouldn't you think people believe I'd swim 10, go out and swim 10K? No idea. Just because why? Oh, because why? Because I'm so not race. Well, yes, because I'm normally. So like, why would you do that? And, and the answer I gave was actually, I don't know why I did it. It was hindsight. Yeah. I mean, it was just everyone was doing it. So I committed. Yeah. And then I did get a bit nervous on the night before. I was like. Yeah, when was the last time you would have swam 10K straight? Well I haven't swam more than 3K full stop.

\[02:03\] Not to do with straight. I haven't swimmed so it was a PB. Congratulations. It was I've never swimmed to K before you go. I'm one of those that go out and just, you know. Just on that, why are we talking about that? This question just popped in mind. What do you make of the 10K race at the Olympics? So Ky Hurst that was. Yeah, no, that's what jumped to mind. After doing OK so here, here's what I found out yesterday that we were It was running a good SE swell, so we had a little bit of help going down the coast. Sure, still have to do the distance though.

\[02:33\] What I found out is. Like running with a tail if. You're a swimmer. 10K isn't necessarily like a long, long way. OK, so the fact of minimal swimming, obviously a lot of swimming background in my life, but of minimal actual training, you can still go out there and feel pretty good. I was cooked in the elbow on the couch, but actually finished the swim going. Yeah, my arms are OK. Everything's good. I think it's actually a really good endurance race in swimming and the fact they all swim together in a group 2 under 2 hours of swimming. It's if you compare it to the

\[03:04\] marathon running, you know you're talking apples for apples. But do you and do you like the idea that we include that at the Olympic Games, at the at the pinnacle of sport, of sport, we include an element of swimming which is endurance. Yes, yeah, I think outside of the pool, I mean. That's what I mean, yeah. If you ask me as a pure traditionalist, and if you ask me this with triathlon, I'd answer the same. So like, let's put that little asterisk on it. Is it a pure traditionalist Olympic sport?

\[03:35\] No. Is triathlon? No, no. However, if you're going to include a lot of the events they're including now, yeah, mixed relays and all of that 100 percent 10K swimming open water is a great event. And does it have to be at the Gold Coast for Brisbane 2032? No. Where would you put it? Is it? Is that where there? I haven't even thought. Would you put it? Haven't thought about. Taking can't be in the IT can't be in the brown snake. We can't have we can't have Olympians going disappearing courtesy of the bull sharks. That's a really good question. Have you have you even heard about? No, I I think it has to be on the Gold Coast.

\[04:07\] Do you? Know where I think they this is? I have no idea. I'm going to take a stab. For anybody who thinks that we plan all of this stuff to make it seem organic, Courtney had this question came into my head after he talked about his Here's my. Stab at where they would likely put it go Maroochydore rowing centre Why? Because you need to effectively you guaranteed like calm ish water.

\[04:37\] So it's going to be consistent water. OK, they've got the feed stations of the rowing stations and and it's all accountable to finish. I know it sounds better if it was it Noosa or somewhere in the ocean and all of that, but logistically, the way they run that race circles and and I'm look, they're looking for events, right? That, and you know what? So it's at Kawana, I said. Maroochydore. Can I be Kawana? Can I be honest? Yeah, if it means that Gold Coast gets a sexier event like the triathlon or something else, you'd give up the team swim.

\[05:08\] Absolutely. I'm happy that, with all due respect to Ky and every all the other marathon swimmers out there, I'm happy to sacrifice the marathon swim in exchange for. You can't say that I. Can I can say whatever I want? You can say whatever you want. I'm not in the limit. We normally do. They're not going to kick me out of the club. You're the one that's going to go to the functions and front. Up. Yeah. I have no idea where they'd run it. Noosa would be like if you've got a calm day but you just can't control. Those conditions, yeah, fair enough. OK, moving away. From swimming. From swimming, because this is

\[05:38\] much swimming as we've talked about. Actually, it might it it leads into a a nice moment really, because I'm bored with running. Oh, this is a good. This is a good topic because I've got something to. Contribute really let me because you just. Just. Running. Let me clarify. Yeah, I'm bored with my training. Yeah, I'm bored with this mile of preparation. I'm really excited about the

\[06:11\] race and it is fast approaching, but this Easter long weekend just gone, I found myself pulling on my shoes with little to no enthusiasm. It is it's it's what I felt over the weekend. 3 back to back days of solid running or 4 four days of running with one kind of lower mileage day in there. It was a real chore. It felt like something I had to do rather than something I wanted to do. I had a day of 3 1/2 hours up in

\[06:43\] Nerang and then I had a day of about two hours up in the border trail the following day. My legs were really heavy the next day, so I actually did a soft sand run along the front just to mix it up. And then on the Monday I went out for just for a flat half marathon. I did about 22 guys, but there was at no point during that whole weekend was there any enthusiasm or excitement about any of those sessions. Yeah, I was. Bored with it? I walked out in Nerang forest

\[07:14\] thinking the exact opposite this morning. I couldn't be any more different from you at the moment because I'm limited on, I'm only running every second day and I've been off doing other things, pulling on a pair of shoes. I'm like hanging to do it. I reckon a lot of people would be in the same boat who get too deep into the running cycle because if you think about it like once you start to get really committed running and I think it'd be different if you were in with a group all the time.

\[07:44\] Yeah. But when you're doing on your own so often, I can see how you can fall into that trap. I need to actually and look, I've still got a month to go until the Miler and I'm I am going and and I have and there's been a lot of people who've reached out about going for run with them and I've said, Oh yeah, call hit you up to up until this point. I've really not, it hasn't been about not running with other people, but because of my work schedule and because of my kids and everything else I've got going on, I haven't wanted to potentially have to cancel on

\[08:16\] someone. Yeah, I've wanted to be a keep my schedule flexible, know that I can go and run when I need to and get it done on my own time without being accountable to someone else. Because I think we talk about accountability in running being a really good thing because if you do commit to a group or to somebody else or to an event, it it keeps you accountable to go and get it done. The challenge for me hasn't been about staying accountable to the training. It's about flexibility in my life and making sure I can fit. So I don't want to kind of have

\[08:47\] that responsibility to say to someone, hey, yeah, let's go for a run. And then the night before going, mate, I can't do that anymore. Like I haven't wanted that pressure. OK. But now as I said, I'm I've hit the point and over the weekend it's the first time I've felt it. And this has been going from this I've been, you know, this is as consistent a training block as I've ever had from the start of the year up until now. Hitting mileage elevation like coming off last week I had 2200 metres of elevations. Biggest week of elevation I've had.

\[09:18\] Legs feel great, the body feels good, but mentally I am fatigued with the exercise of getting ready for this Miler. And the repetition of going out and doing. Really fatigued. I reckon you, there's going to be a lot of listeners understanding exactly where you are. So if you're training for, if you've got any goal, especially in endurance events, whether it be a cycling goal, whether it's a marathon goal, 1/2 marathon goal, it's all exciting. And the beginning, you know,

\[09:48\] you're getting ready, you're getting, you see fitness increase a lot. And then inevitably you'll go through some bumps, ups and downs, whether that's injury, whether that's just tiredness, whether that's just boredom of, of the repetition of it and the events still down the road at this stage. And that's where it's, I suppose you've really got to dig in and work out, you know, what works for you. So then there's a few things around that, like you said, finding people to run with, but then you don't want to lock yourself into there. I always find at least having one consistent run a week or

\[10:22\] exercise, whatever, you know, whichever excellent that. Yeah, with a group or with someone else that you can look forward to. And, you know, that's your day. And then it makes the days on your own so much easier. Yeah. You actually look forward. Variety is where I'm going here. You can't be some variety. Yeah. And running every day, or sometimes it's multiple days once you get up, you know, trying to run certain things. Yeah, pulling the shoes on. You just want to do something different. It's interesting you mentioned the variety thing because of of the weekend, the run that I enjoyed most and felt and and

\[10:56\] this cloud of boredom was least heavy lightest was the run out in the rang when I took the poles out on Naibu. OK, so I got the poles out and that was because it was new and a novelty and fun and it was interesting. So I did, I had about 1000 metres of elevation over 26 KS. Took me about out there for about 3 1/2 hours and with the poles the whole time. And I took the poles out at the start and said let's just run with them the whole time, Let's plan to just. And the truth of it is I'd planned for a slightly longer run.

\[11:27\] But as I mentioned life, I had to get back home. So my wife and I were going out on a date. I had to get home for it. So I cut the run probably about 8K short, probably about 45 minutes short. But running with the poles aside from the bottom of where I'm at, running with the poles was technically I'm OK. Like technically uphill with the sort of power hiking alternating then even running on the steeper downs. So did you. Feel they made a difference when you power off when you're power hiking up the hill.

\[11:58\] Did you go, oh, I've been missing? This is a revelation. It wasn't. AI wouldn't say it's a revelation. It wasn't such a difference to that extent. Arguably, the fact that I was fine to go again the following day, probably a sign that they have helped from a leg strength perspective and leg fatigue perspective because I was fine to go again the next day. Interestingly, when I went out in the border trail the following day without the poles, the day after that, legs were really heavy, really tired.

\[12:28\] And that's might be an accumulation thing. But I guess heading into the Miler now and this is looking back on the advice Holly Ranson gave me a couple of episodes back. For those that didn't see it, the Miler Queen and a run with the poles. Important to get a sense of it technically and to get used to the idea of descending and ascending and all that sort of stuff with the poles. Fine, right? Really comfortable now that I still have one more of her suggestions to tick off, which is the night time run. So I'm still going to be planning in one of those. But run with poles. Tick.

\[13:00\] Done it right now. The challenge for me in this next week and so is to find ways to bring back the excitement and joy. And I think I'll get it naturally because we are quite close to the event now. But yeah, I'll be looking for some people to to run a bit with because I've just it honestly, it was just, I found myself really bored with the training. Yeah. I'll come on the night time run, that could be fun. Yeah, let's do it. Just disappear in the dark, yeah? Well, I mean, because honestly

\[13:30\] light off, but honestly, I was going I was I was going to be doing it solo, so come with me well. You probably you probably want to have a little bit of an experience of both. The what I wanted to, I mean talking about the boredom of running, what I did want to ask you because the thing it has made me appreciate is the dedication of athletes, like any particularly Olympic athletes, when your cycle is a four year cycle for the most part. Yep, World Championships things other races interspersed.

\[14:00\] Did you get bored during your career? At times. And and did you have, I mean you just mentioned variety and that sort of stuff them, is that how you? I mean, I think, I think I was in A and I don't think it was by chance that I was. My sport was like Jack of all trades or triathlon. So the boredom you had more of a variety in what you did that probably like I think if it was just running for 20 years, that would have been really taxing and tough because you wouldn't

\[14:30\] have had all those other things you're trying to do all the time and trying, like I said, trying to put those shoes on to make the mileage sometimes twice a day just to go out to do an easy 40 minute run just to kind of log up your mileage like it can 100% that gets tough. Did you see, did you ever see any athletes like it? Because I think what I think one of the realisations I had is that we see athletes who just go, I can't grind anymore. I can't do the grind anymore. And I always kind of thought, Oh well, it's too hard to lace up

\[15:01\] for another pre season or it's too hard to the the physical toll is too much. But I can see how the mental fatigue now. Yeah, I think I, I I would suggest, I mean, not talking for everyone, but you get to a point where I don't think it's the boredom or anything like that. It's just like the passion. It's a probably a combination of all of that just then becomes the passion isn't there to chase it anymore. That 100% happens at some stage. But to go back to your, your answer, your, your question around that boredom, you can also learn to embrace because

\[15:37\] it's a continual consistency that gets you the end result. Yeah. So if you actually change the mind frame around it and it's like, well, yes, I mean, I am doing this again, but this is actually the process. Press and repeat. Yeah, this is the process that actually gets you there to make it thing. But you can always then like I said, you always have. It's great to have people around you to work this out with. But if something's not going right here, don't just keep, you know, butting your head against the brick wall doing it.

\[16:07\] Yeah, to A to a degree. Sometimes you just gotta suck it up and do it. But then other times it's like, well, what can I do differently? What can I do? And that can be something within a session that excites you. It can be benchmarking. But the biggest one comes back to what we always talk about. If you're getting bored, figure out something in the short term that replaces the long term goal. Yeah. And that becomes a new goal. So I. 'Cause if you went out. OK, here's an example. Yeah. Instead of spending your Easter weekend trying to take off the mileage to get to the race, if

\[16:37\] you started feeling that way, why not go and try and find another event that you or like activity or friends or something. Do something that then you look forward to that or at least have a, you know, a purpose to that and I'll get you through it. Well, look, in a running sense, I had two consecutive days in the trails and then I just went out on the front. And this is what I mean, I turned the back. I felt my legs felt heavy. I was, I didn't just want to kind of grind out another 1015K

\[17:08\] run at at 5 to 5 1/2 minute pace. So I ran on the sand. I just ran and I it was slower on the sand. I jumped on the soft sand. Oh jeez. And and look, my legs were heavy. But in my head I was going, this isn't going to be a bad thing for my legs. It's it's variety, but it's also mentally it was right. I was running a lot slow. I think I was running like 7 minute pace but just that simple change. It changed something up for you. Made the run doable. Does. Sound like you need a few runs with some people. Yeah, I probably do.

\[17:39\] I probably do need to go and find some runs with people. You did. Yeah. Just before we move away from the boredom factor, because I find it again, as I said, the I've never been in this situation where I've been bored of running training before like this. Did you ever, do you ever think you raced against athletes? Who were you? Talk about losing the passion. Would Did you race against athletes that you could tell had lost the passion? Could you notice if somebody, one of your like primary competitors was off? You're not physically, but

\[18:10\] mentally. Yeah, off the top of my head, no, not not really. I mean, I didn't train that much, especially in the later career with people, but you definitely, I'm like, I was being transparent and honest when I said, you know, when the passion is no longer there and that can, you know, that doesn't necessarily mean the performance isn't there anymore either. There's sometimes it's just just the passion. You look at Ash Barty. Ash Barty is an example in current world where it, she

\[18:40\] could still be #1 in world of tennis. But she won the majors that she won. She won Wimbledon, she won the Australian Open. Then she wanted to do other stuff. Yeah. She wanted to start a family. She wanted to, you know, pursue other things. Well, the flip. Side of it is like I said I've walked out of the forest this morning come couldn't be more opposite to you guy. I ran an extra 15 minutes for no reason just because I got to an hour and I was like this is good and kept running because at the moment I am limit like purposely limiting my running every second day and what in the now this is

\[19:15\] where the big change has been from say last year. Anyone who's listened for a while last year when I had the stress fracture and I started to get back and I'm still limiting my running to every second day. I was doing a bit of gym on those same run days, but on the off days I was actually doing nothing. Yeah. So I was feeling pretty ordinary. What I've changed now is I'm either swimming, I'm either riding. I'm touch wood. I'm not going back there. But I actually have gone full circle right back to being, you know, more like a triathlete at

\[19:46\] the moment trying to run than I am a runner. But in doing that, I'm looking for like so much of that's new to me. So I'm looking forward to every single day and the off days I generally do with groups. So it's only right. I don't swim by myself ever. So I only swim with a group. The riding, I've got the new swift. So that's all like new and exciting and and fun and that's it. You just gotta find things that actually make you get want to do it. What would it take to get you back on the start line of a triathlon?

\[20:16\] It won't happen. So the weekend it was funny. So if you want to know, So what I do, we, I think I ran Thursday. I can't remember what I did Thursday morning we're out on the water anyway, so then I went out running. I was out West, went running. Riding motorbikes is about as close to bikes as I got riding and then got back into swimming. So the riding bit is definitely the one I just never kind of thought, but I've got no real interest. That talk about the passion.

\[20:47\] The passion of actually racing a triathlon. But what I do have, the Passion 4 is still trying to get the running right, but to get to where I need, I want to be. We're just doing some things differently to make sure we can kind of manage it. Yeah, well, Speaking of of running races, yes, we should give the results from the poll from last week's episode for those that didn't see poll. They just surprised me. Surprised me too. Yeah, so anyone listening along and realise what the poll last

\[21:17\] week was, would you prefer to get your race photos for free or would you prefer to get a finishers T-shirt or medal or something? And. Like most races currently do Yeah, but with most races currently you get that finisher shirt or you get that medal or both. And then a week afterwards you get the email from whatever the company might be saying. Here are the photos of you competing. So with a watermark on it, my argument your. Thesis was that social world everyone wants to show themselves. Everyone it's now the people

\[21:48\] would consider it more valuable to be able to show select a carousel of photos of themselves from a race for free or a part of the entry fee rather than wear the metal or the T shirt I. Think this is a great result because it was finishes Tees with 64% compared to the 36 on the photos which means. The world's still good, the world people want. Oh, that's your take away, isn't it? Yeah, We haven't completely gone to crap as a society. It revised me. So I literally walked out of

\[22:19\] Burleigh Surf Club with someone on the weekend after we did the swim. Yeah. And I don't when I I hate wearing a watch when I swim. I can't stand it. So I didn't actually do the GPS. And I said to Nick Crilley, who was one of the guys who swam with us. I said, hey, make sure you tag me in on the on the GPS so I can put it up on Strava. Yeah, the other guy said to me, is that the real reason you're doing it? And I said, wait, I swear and saying K, I'm gonna tell people I swear to K. But it it's it's comes back to this idea of the world being good, how you're really doing it for that purpose to tell

\[22:51\] everyone you did it or are you doing it for yourself? And I think this tells that result. I agree. I think this result says that 2/3 of people are still motivated by internal goals rather than external support. Or what's the word I'm looking for? Motivation. Well, no, there's a word I'm looking for and it's gone out of my head. Validation. That's what I was thinking. Validation internal drive versus external validation for your what you've achieved. I wonder all right, is it something?

\[23:23\] I told you some of the comments we had, some people said why would I want the photos of me struggling? I said I've never seen a photo where I've. Looked good. Well, that was that was a common theme too that the photos at these races. So I I assume going back to your thesis around everyone wants the good photos. If you're someone who's bringing your own like paid photographer, you get some cracking photos first. You know what, are they OK? Race, roster or whoever they are, yeah. Ryan Friend of the show Ryan Kelso. Yeah, off the back of this, Yeah.

\[23:54\] What do you say? Hyrox? It was it was a reel he actually shared with him is when a marathoner, a marathon runner finishes a Hyrox and there's no medal or T shirt and you still have to pay. For your photos. But you know what they do give? Towels back, Do they? I've seen the winners. The podium finishes. Get towels. They get a now that's. Now you can't. Forget what kind of word what's. The word you're looking for a patch. A patch? A patch. OK, what would you call it? A patch. So, like, thing that they you

\[24:25\] would yeah, yeah, yeah. A patch that like you'd stitch onto your backpack or something like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, That's cool. So you get the patch. Speaking of running races, if you didn't watch this over the Easter weekend, I hope you've seen the replay. I hope you've caught a reel because the Stawell Gift, the most storied race in Australian athletics, the the race just gone, I think was the greatest, one of the greatest sporting moments we've seen in terms of track and field in this country.

\[24:56\] Sha'Carri Richardson, the Olympics silver medalist, the world champion, the sixth fastest woman all time over 100 metres, put on one of the most amazing shows that Stawell has ever seen. It might be the biggest moment in the history of Stawell. She she definitely put on a show. It was now this is a, a, a storied race and and nostalgia. I think we can tend to be blinded by nostalgia and people will, will cite Kathy's run, that famous run that people have

\[25:26\] seen of Kathy coming off scratch to win the 400 metres, an amazing performance. But I don't think we've ever had an athlete what I'll say it, we've never had an athlete of Sha'Carri Richardson's profile turn up to that race. 100%. Never. Yep, and and Christian Coleman let this is the other thing. Let's also say Christian Coleman, who's her boyfriend and slash coach also came. Now he's a He's won the. 7th summons was saying seventh fastest. All time he's the 60 metre world champion, so again, the men's racing has never seen an athlete of his calibre turn up. Didn't make the final, got

\[25:58\] knocked out in the semi finals, right? For Sha'Carri Richardson to turn up with the pressure, the prestige, the name, everything that she did, then to deliver in the final the way she did. Yeah. I was yelling at the TV screen. I was, you know, Bruce McAvaney's there doing what he does best and calling the absolute pants off this race. And I was just screaming at the screen. Yeah, OK. I was blown away. It was such an awesome day.

\[26:28\] Bryce, Everything. I'm going to show you a video. If you're watching on video yourselves, I'll try and remember to put it up. Yeah. Does this look familiar? So I'm showing a video of gout last year yes, running his heat from the same drone shot that they've shown amazing same same same same. So what's so exciting? Is it just year to year when we've got to talk up sport? Why is the new exciting? Well, the news last year was all about gout, you know, and it was a hot property. Yep, turned up.

\[27:00\] Same viral video. Exactly same. Didn't win. Didn't win, didn't win. Didn't win. Also, with all due respect to Gout. Gout. Not at Sha'Carri's level. No, not at Sha'Carri Richardson's level. This is another level above where Gout's AT, and let's be real about that. This is for all the hype around Gout. And let's remember this young fella by the name of Lachie Kennedy who is consistently leaving Gout in his dust. Sha'Carri is another level. Yeah, like this is the Noah Lyles of women's track. Yeah, yeah, she.

\[27:30\] Is a star and she brings all the swagger. She brings everything we talk about with these track athletes and she brought it to the tiny Victorian town of Stawell. Did they get did you while you're listening along? Did they get more people to watch? I don't know what the attendance was a quick Google earlier this morning because we talked a bit about this on the radio show told me that the ratings, Channel 7's ratings. Well, it was a it was a an all timer. Yeah. It was the best they've had for the for the Stawell mate. So the impact was there for the

\[28:03\] casual. But again, I just I'm just really happy it brings on a weekend. Bear in mind, this is the same weekend as I've just said, where I've gotten bored with my running. Yeah, yeah, it brought. You wanted to become a sprinter. Absolute joy that Stawell and this historical, fantastic, storied race that we have here in Australia. Then she did Richard Jace Richardson did a marvellous job over the interview with her and, and, and said, you know, what do

\[28:33\] you want to say to all your everybody watching back home? And you know, she took she said this place appreciates running and sprinting so much and she talked about. And so Stawell and Australia were broadcast to the US as a place to celebrate. And I love the fact that in the men's final, there was this big Dutch fella called Liam van Schwagen or something like that. Apologies for Liam for not getting your name right. Who was going to be out here on holiday, I think. And essentially saw Stahl was

\[29:03\] on. He's like, Oh yeah, I'll go in that. And suddenly there's this real international. I felt like there was this true international flavour. He's a, he's a world class hurdler who made the final. And yeah, it just had a real, it brought a real bigness, for lack of a better word. Yeah, to Stawell. Oh, it's still great for running, isn't it? It's great for running. There's plenty, plenty going on across all. Have you ever been? Have you ever done the Stawell? Been never done the Stawell. No, my wife is desperate to go and as am I now, because this is the other thing. So what draw? What draws you to want to go?

\[29:33\] On in that life, I'd love to the idea. To be in the crowd. I'd I we love the family, loves camping. OK, right. Kids are at a great age to to do Rd trips and I do love the idea of and call it box checking if you want, but bucket list. I do love the idea of having experienced these things. The the opportunity to not. It's like I've done it now I don't have to think about it. But I haven't been to Bathurst.

\[30:04\] I'd I really want to do go and experience Bathurst and I really want to experience Stawell during the gift so I can understand, have that next level of understanding of what it's all about. I love, I love sport, I love travel and I love talking to people about experiences. But I think if anybody has a direct experience of the thing rather than just observing the thing externally, yeah, brings another level or another layer to the conversation.

\[30:34\] True, true. Is there any other sports sporting events? Jeez, where do you want me to start? Well, look, I could I, I mean, if we're talking internationally and globally, I like. Well, let's keep it to Australia for the moment. There's the other reason I want to do all the other marathons too. I want to run Sydney. I want to run Melbourne. Yeah, because I haven't done them, but I want to. And we talk, sit here and talk about these race. I want to do Hyrox. Yeah, I, I want to, my brain wants to understand first hand what is, what these things are and what they're about.

\[31:04\] Yeah. So that like, I want to do an Iron Man at some point because we sit here and I love the idea of an Iron Man and I love talking about it. I love talking to people that raced Iron Man. But I would love to internally understand what it's all about. It's part of the, the mile is a part of it. It comes, I think it, you know, to bring it back around. Part of that motivation for the mile. I've talked a bit about. I want to see where I break, but I also want to be able to talk to people about it down the track with a level of not authority, but just of

\[31:36\] understanding. Yeah. I think, I mean, coming back to that whole touristy idea of sports tourism, we've talked a lot about you going to do it, but in this case, you're saying it's like sports tourism, but I'm going to watch it. Yeah, I don't personally get that. To watch, to watch, you don't understand the spectator. Mindset. I don't understand the spectator mindset of of going through all of that to watch. Driving 18 hours down to store with a caravan. I am so driven by doing, wanting

\[32:06\] to be doing it. It just, yeah, I'm 100% on the fence of if it's tourism I'm going to do. Something this is a good question then. Yeah. Tour de France, yeah. Would you? Do you have any appetite to go and watch? You're going to come and give me a left hook over the table. You got no, you got no energy to spectate that event. I sat in a town Lac Léman for nearly six years and the tour would have come past within 50

\[32:37\] kilometres multiple times you're. Kidding. My wife and daughter went to Annecy one day to see the time trial around the lake which was 30 K away. And you never went. I was training. Oh my gosh, this is breaking my brain. So that that is, does that answer your question? Well, it gives you, it gives you an insight into my mindset. It's just ends the hypothetical

\[33:08\] exercise of me listing events that you would go to watch. Like, have you ever been to Bells? No, I haven't been to Bells, but I've, I mean, I suppose I've had the opportunity to go to Bells again. Another the first WSL I'd been to, the actual surf comp I'd watched. It was just. Gold Coast Pro last year. When we went down with. You. Oh, that that Tour de France thing hurts me. Really. Yeah. I thought that would. That really hurts. That and and like, not to say I

\[33:38\] wouldn't, it's just I know a few of the guys at some stages rode out to a certain climb on the training day. Yeah, it just, I mean, I was like, we just never worked in at the time. Yeah, but it wasn't like I'm gonna put everything on. Hold no to go and comparatively. But if you said to me, hey, do you want to go and race up Alpe d'Huez, now it's a whole different ball game because then it's like I'm doing it. OK, well let me ask. You to stand on the sideline and. Watch you something then. Oh, I've got an idea. Oh, I might have a little adventure for the podcast.

\[34:08\] Yeah, right. Two down under. Yes. You've been. No, you know, there there's a a participant like a race, Yeah, maybe everyday person can jump. In yeah, yeah. And then there's like so you. Wouldn't like the? Car park climber. You would not be interested in going to spectate the two down under? What about if we? What about if the podcast hit the road to Mighty SA and we got involved in Rd the road and road in it? I'd prefer if we, if we had to

\[34:40\] do something, I'd still prefer to go off and do something running. OK, all right. Well, I'm a pessimistic old bastard. Just you are a little. Bit we're segueing beautifully into the traveller's continue. They'll just wait before we get there, before we get there. OK, so this maybe gives some more insight into it some the things I would like to go and watch. All right, go. Pro MX Motocross. Yeah. You know what? I was gonna guess. I was gonna guess like NASCAR or something like that.

\[35:11\] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Pro it makes like to sit on the sideline and actually see them in there. I missed think the Fink desert race, which is out at Alice Springs, the, you know, the trophy trucks and the bikes and all that. Yes, I'd like in the back of my head, I'm still the idea of actually maybe possibly one day even thinking a do it still I was, but I was still. There as a contestant, not as a spectator. Yes, competitive. I could actually see the purpose of me sitting on this like there's something to that.

\[35:42\] They can just feel like but maybe it's maybe it's your hobbies that dictate what you like to go and watch. Oh, absolutely, 100% should. Yeah, you definitely. It's your hobbies, but don't. Yeah, let's put. Let's get on. No. No, no, just quickly. I just want to say interestingly, that participation versus spectating perspective, do you know what my wife and brother in law are currently organising, preparing themselves for? The marathon. They want to participate in the Aussie Masters. Oh, the Aussies next year as Masters athletes. Oh, in the surf, like so. Because they're both both got bronze and qualifications with

\[36:14\] Currumbin Vikings. And after watching it just recently here on the Gold Coast, my brother in law was looking through results and thinking, why don't I just go in this? So he do they have to do they have they done their hours? Basically, yeah, but they do get their hours up as water safety for nipples. Oh. OK with our kids. So now they're both, they're literally looking through varying, you know, seeing what they. The idea of service is amazing. So don't don't get me wrong, I love the idea of service, but as a pure sport of event, surf, life saving, it just it's like

\[36:48\] they they just shoot themselves in the foot all the time. Yeah, the idea of there is a lot of people would love to get involved in racing and Iron Man's and doing all that, but the other idea then they've got to actually go and it's beyond a sport, right? It's a whole service idea, yeah. They could have a lot more competitors if they change their change their traditional way competitors they've got. A lot of people competing, the Aussies, yeah. Well, half of them are probably the ones who have done enough service they don't have to do it. Anymore, and I think most of them just come for the big, you know, piss up at the end of the. Yeah, keeping on the keeping

\[37:20\] with this with the tourism stuff. So Jake Birtwhistle came up with the idea. You well, we should we should acknowledge Jake's previous contribution before this one yes he came up with Liam's game Sims which Jake, we appreciate that in London Marathon we're still waiting to hear back from you and. Now with the tourism travel agents didn't like your idea on that. He's called travellers, no travellites, travellites. So he's like athletes. Travelling. Oh, OK. You didn't get that. No, what I saw it as was the tea

\[37:50\] and tree was triathletes, traveletes and I it was. Travel lights, it's kind of terrible. I like travel lights. I like traveletes, travel eats. OK, so last week for those that might have missed it, Courtney, we I said to you, we should both go and do some homework and come up with a family friendly holiday that's LED into some sort of Yep race and you did not need any prep time short. Story on a boat on Whitehaven running a marathon. Half marathon. Sorry.

\[38:20\] It was, it was, it was an absolute hole in one. But you're you're gonna give us some. So I'm gonna come back to you and I've gone to ChatGPT. Hope it's not just. Hopefully it's not too down under. Now can you be in mind? I've gone to ChatGPT for this. I asked it to come up with some. I asked it to come up with a OK, in fact, I'll give you the exact prompts so you know what I asked for. I said what would be an example of an epic family holiday with 1/2 marathon or marathon or triathlon included as part of the itinerary. Family is a mum, dad, 9 year old

\[38:51\] and a five year old. What would you guess he would have come back with? One of the major marathons? Yep. Sydney, Tokyo. Oh, OK, so it's gone. It's gone. You didn't. I didn't specify Australia. I didn't contain it to Australia. It came back with. Tokyo. It came back with Tokyo. Yeah, See, knowing you're an Aussie, knowing how many Aussies are going to Japan, Yeah, it's put 2 and. Two now it gave me some alternatives, it said. And interestingly, it's gone.

\[39:21\] ChatGPT is understanding what kids find interesting is pretty mainstream. It's gone. You could do an Orlando, which is the Walt Disney Marathon, the Disney marathon again, you could do the London Marathon, which then gives you the Harry Potter studio next option, Gold Coast Marathon that it generated Gold Coast Marathon, it went Tokyo Disney Marathon, London Gold. Coast correlating high tourism locations for kids along with major events now I. Then and that's and that's whatever it is that's.

\[39:52\] Right. I mean. They're not bad. They're not bad options, right? I then asked it for. Not really thinking outside the box is it though, no. I said give me some more adventure based holiday destinations and all races. This is where it gets interesting. Have you heard of the Jungfrau Marathon? Yes, in Switzerland. Yes, yes. What do you know about it? So I did an event which I'll pull out a video of. If you run this.

\[40:24\] Very close my one of my favourite events I've been involved in a team race yeah is called the Jungfrau. Gotta look up what it was exactly called. But effectively it was a race around Switzerland in the day starting Zurich. I ran 12K cross country out of Zurich, handed over to a cyclist who rode 40K on the roads. Yeah, to an airfield. Who handed the baton over to a? Cyclist or. No, like a.

\[40:55\] Is this like the one you did in Brazil? Different, similar, but different. So this one was based in in Switzerland. So we went. Sorry. The cyclist handed over to a aeroplane like an acrobatic plane. Yeah. Who flew to the top over the peak of Jungfrau? Yes. Dropped the baton out of the plane to a downhill skier. The downhill skier this. This stuff you've come to do is absolutely taking the piss. Downhill skier down the mountain, got out of the snow to

\[41:26\] a downhill mountain biker who got down the rest of the mountain, handed over to a vintage motorcycle racer who had to do something. Came back, handed it back to the bicycle rider and I finished with another 12K cross country at the end of the day. So we did the lap of Switzerland, including Jungfrau in the day. I've actually it's not the Lauberhorn race, I'm just trying to look out what this race was, might have been called for. Just grab. Just grab my other computer.

\[41:56\] But seriously. The stuff you've got to do, the cool stuff you have got to do throughout your career. It's random. You mentioned this mountain because there's a what? Like there's? There's a lot of mountains, there's not too many. Jungfrau Lauberhorn Run is a thrilling race on a challenging snow covered winter course. And then the Jungfrau, yeah, that's. So it's so it's a mountain, like a mountain marathon, right? Yeah, but while Courtney looks that up, the reason that was #1

\[42:28\] big adventure plus iconic race combos as a suggestion from ChatGPT. And it said kids get cable cars, easy Alpine hikes like swimming, and then you get chocolate factories and playgrounds. I'll put this video up for if I'm watching but like. So this is it. So this is I found this in some archives the other day. So like here's I'm just running in. And you're handing off your. Head off to the bike, just so people know I'm not just playing. Yeah, here we go. Oh. My gosh, to the planes straight into look at these planes out to

\[42:58\] the airfield. The old school biplanes they. Get the pictures of them dropping dropping the. This is so cool. Anyway, there's you down. Oh. And then you're into the snow. So did you run the snow? I didn't run the snow part. No, they're the skiers running to their they're just going to find so. This is like what was the thing they introduced at the Olympics this year? And there's a downhill mountain bikers going down the. What a sick event. Some vintage cars within it. Yeah, crazy. Hey. And then. What a There you are.

\[43:31\] Did you win? We took it out. Oh, that's epic. Oh, that's so cool. There's some amazing events. That's so cool. Well, so Jungfrau. Yeah. So Jungfrau, Jungfrau is was was one of the suggestions. Then they went to next option. There was the Banff Marathon OK, which is in Canada. To go to Banff, I haven't been there. The adventure factor is wildlife spotting. You get elk bears from a safe distance, it says, canoeing on turquoise lakes, gondolas up the mountains. The kids win with junior Ranger

\[44:03\] style exploration vibes and big we're in a movie scenery. OK. And then this is when they get a little bit closer to home. There's one more I'll mention after this. The Queenstown marathon. Yeah, as a as a trip. Yep, right. Makes sense. This is the one that jumped out to me, aside from the Banff one, the Big 5 marathon in South Africa. Oh. Through the safari parks, through the game parks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That one is a family trip to me is the one that makes sense. It makes sense if you're looking

\[44:34\] to plan, if you've got the means to do an at a family holiday with a marathon as part of it. My kids, we will do a safari at one point and doing something like that amazing run adventure and then you get to do without sacrificing the family adventure thing. Yeah, So my, if I just off the top of my head when you're going through that list in Banff and places like that, the two that quickly popped in, remember Josh

\[45:07\] when he was in the other day, he was talking about he did a Patagonia trail. Anything in Patagonia, I'd love to go. The second one is, and I think we've chatted that on here, the Mount Marathon up in Canada, like it's a 5K real light mountain race, but in a small town up in Canada. Maybe it's in Alaska. Mount Robson Marathon. I think it's just called Mount Marathon. Mount marathon race in Seward, the toughest 5K on the planet. That's the one. That's the one. Run on the 4th of July.

\[45:39\] Yep, it says it's in Alaska. Alaska, sorry, I was, yeah, Canada, same place, North America, different countries, you know, up there. Yeah, this is, that's the other one. I'd be like, well, you end up doing this amazing thing, but then you get to get a. Gruelling climb and treacherous descent of Mount Marathon, the majestic peak that overlooks Seward. Seward and Resurrection Bay. Yeah. That does Salomon went over with a group of athletes about, Oh yeah, I'm gonna just guess, 5 to 10 years ago and made a movie

\[46:11\] outfit and that's what put it on the map. So I'm assuming these races as there would be so many around them, you know, around the globe, interesting races. It just takes someone to go and make a story about it or it get a. Someone or some pod? Someone or some pod. It takes some pod to go and make. It was like Zegama. When I went to race Zegama, the trial race went up the mountain, like with the Tour de France kind of crowd.

\[46:41\] I would have never known about it except for the fact it got, it was one of the races that, you know, got put into a series and then you saw it and then enough, you know, there was enough awareness about it that I'm like gonna do that. Yeah, this is I'm, I'm, I'm just, I'm holding the trigger on firing off a Liam's an ad hoc Liam scheme here. Come on back to Australia, what you think of that. I wanted to rob Recker kind of a while back. He, before we talked about this idea, had given us some content around locations in this similar vein.

\[47:13\] Sydney Harbour. Done. I mean, people run around Sydney Harbour every day, right? Tick. Uluru. Yeah. Would you want to go and run it? Uluru. Look, I've been, I I was, I went to Uluru in 2000\. I was in year 10 at high school. I'd love to take my kids there. Yep. Yeah. But it's not a place you'd really think about going. In designing no. No, no, Central Park. You've been New York. You've done New York. Oh. No, when I was, I was in year 6\. I was 1996, so 30 years ago.

\[47:45\] I'd love to go back to New York as an adult. You're a well travelled kid, weren't you? Well, my mum was working overseas. Yeah. Yeah, I'd love to go back to New York as an adult. And in fact, that's probably why. Like if you gave me an option of a major. That's where you go. And then, and then the other one he had was Boulder, which is, you know, the endurance town, kind of, I don't know how far it is from Denver, but it's an endurance town where most athletes, you know, endurance triathletes and trail runners, some marathoners train out of in America for the altitude.

\[48:17\] But I spent six months there at 1 stage and it's a nice, beautiful town, everything. But I don't think it have to be there. Yeah, but. New York, NY For me, that holds a big appeal. I'd love to get involved with that. Where we I had oh, that's what I was going to tell you. I've got I've got a Miler revelation. Not that I'm bored. I'm still doing the race everybody. No, I've got a revelation. I have got details to be defined but I have a UTA Miler big piece

\[48:57\] of news to share. OK, we'll get on with it. I've got my crew. OK, I have this is part of. And it obviously doesn't include me. It doesn't need to include you, Courtney. You're welcome. The door is open there. Courtney Atkinson. What I would actually prefer, Courtney, is to invite you to be a pace runner for some of it. OK. I would love it if if you can make it happen I. Forgot you. You get to have if you. Can make it happen with life.

\[49:28\] Yeah. I would love it if you can make it happen. Have you just realised you can have pace runners? I've kind of known that you can have pace runners. What? What's the rules around a pace runner? Well, I was trying to look that up discreetly. Because only for the mile that you can do this, right? Yes. So I'm trying to look at, oh, here we go. Paces. I can't weigh that. OK, I've got the paces. Here we go. Paces are companion runners that can accompany a UTA mile athlete from various points. You can view pacer pickup locations da, da, da, da, da.

\[49:59\] The Pacers role is to accompany their athlete to provide moral support, pacing advice and companionship in the latter stages of the event. So you have to be 18 years of age. You have to wear a bib. Competitors can use three paces, but only one at a time. So the pacer pickup location paces can join. Can only join a switchover at the designated point. So the earliest you can start with me is 90 KS in. Which would be going in tonight. Six Foot Track outbound.

\[50:34\] Six Foot Track outbound. Could be a good guide on the Six Foot Track so the distance. So the checkpoints are 91-O5116127138\. Six Foot Track is like a wildfire. Well if it's the same Six Foot Track I'll run the Six Foot Track race on. I'm assuming it is. So I would love, I would like to officially extend the invitation. Courtney, if you can make it work to get down there for the Miler, you as a pacer would be brilliant. Well, before you walked in this morning, I was looking at those trying to work out dates for the next few months and I was looking at it. Yeah, it's that's of interest.

\[51:08\] But OK, while you work that out, what's the? There's no, but I'm just gonna now. I'm gonna explain to you why I don't need you as a crew. Before you jump into the crew, yeah, you've got to be very careful around these paces. Why's that? Well, it. Would be very like regardless whether they're inviting you. No, no, but regardless, whether it's me or someone else, think how fresh the part like you, you jump in with you and you're you're starting to, you know, just say it was 120 K in and you're starting to go through

\[51:38\] hell and you've got this chirp and. Well, that's why I'm invited. You just got off the coffee. Yes, few Red Bulls down the guzzle. If I'm being two I am at night being honest about it. The main motivation to invite you is for the pods benefit because you can capture content. We're going to be live, live, live pod, OK? I think it would be great for the pod if you were if we were able to bring back for the episode following the Miler A. Snippets A. Live 20\. Live 20s Wow.

\[52:09\] That'd be cool actually. OK, that's. OK, we'll work if you've. Created you've created enough interest now OK so and by those I'm not being a slack ass guy and I'm not going to support Liam. We just got to work out how to get down and. No, no, no. OK, so I got a text message. I, I accidentally got a text message on Sunday from a number saying I'm on my way home from Waterfall Gully. Now. Now Waterfall Gully is a place in SA, in Adelaide, right? And I gave this person a thumbs

\[52:40\] up. I said, oh, I love that you've been running in Waterfall Gully. What a spot, How's training going? And then I got the text messages saying, sorry, Siri, thought you were Nick. This was a message from Holly Ranson, right? The Miler Queen, right? You knew it was from her. I knew it was from her. Yeah, I got her number but she'd accidentally sent it to me instead of her husband Nick. OK. Then she sends me a text message at 2:00 and said so I'm being crewed by their friends from New

\[53:13\] Zealand as a practise for Western states for at UTA. Nick is offering to crew you for the entire Miler. He is happy to defy the plan and work it out with you. He will be up there and at a total loose end. How good. So I've messaged Nick and I've said mate. You've got, you've got some expertise in your back. I I have. Like this is like. This is like now you better listen. This is like an L plater being handed an F1 pick crew. Yeah I have.

\[53:44\] I am going to have As as the person crewing me for this Milo race at UTA, a bloke who has been there and done it with the best in the game. Yeah, how good. So Nick, I said Nick, I said Nick, Liam here. Holly mentioned your insanely generous offer to creamy for the Miler. Firstly, are you serious question mark? Secondly, if you are serious, I'll absolutely take you up on the offer. He said mate, lock it in, we are on. We need to have a chat at some stage in the next week to lock down a bit of a plan and walk through a few things.

\[54:15\] Let me know what time that suits. Yeah, good. Who's Ed? Using my mate Ed who's running it. Yeah, don't I? Sounds like a handball. Sounds like an Ed problem. Sounds like an Ed problem. No look, Ed did the 100K last year unsupported. He had nobody for him at he had I'll tell you a quick I'll tell you a quick story. He last year he did the 100K race. This is my good mate Ed, who race defiance with and he did not have anybody at any of the

\[54:46\] checkpoints for him, but he was, you know, you know, Cooper Chapman Cooper's a former professional surfer who has a good movement, a good human factory, whatever it is, does great work around mental health. And Cooper was did the 100K race last year as well. And he was doing a lot, he does a lot of influencing stuff as well. So he was naturally documenting it all. And I saw a video of Cooper at a checkpoint and he had someone feeding him, someone filling his pack, someone massaging his legs. He had three people were there

\[55:16\] supporting him, crew before him. And I just thought about Ed. I watched that video and thought about what Ed must have gone through at those checkpoints with nobody there. It would have been just even just the human connection. How long did it take Ed to run? I can't. I don't know off the top of my head, I'd have to check. It but but like well under 24\. Yeah, I'm pretty sure he kept it under 24\. Yeah, I think he was around 1819 or somewhere there about. But yeah, so I don't I'll talk

\[55:46\] to Ed about the fact that someone, you know I've got this F1 pit crew team coming to crew me for the but my crew is sorted. So Nick and I'm going to be working with Nick on crewing me for this. As I said, I there are some friends down in Sydney from the Runners in the Dark crew who have said they'd love to come out and run some of it with me just because they're great people. But Courtney, if you can make it work with. Your schedule? No, I think, I think for. Having you out there to record. For the potty, yeah, we could do some. We'd have to fun, fun things. Yeah, we'd.

\[56:18\] But anyway, my crew is sort, so I'm my crew is sorted. I know how to run with poles. I still have to do a night run and I need to find a little bit more passion and enthusiasm for the training. But how good the Miller is coming along? Marvel is coming along. You're running with poles. Yeah, you're bored, but the the main thing is uninjured. That's right. And moving well. That's right, we're taking long. Hey, I got an event like we kind of gave up a little bit on. Yeah, it gets a little bit out of hand just how many things are going on in the running world, but one has crossed, I suppose.

\[56:52\] I crossed my socials this week that I've kind of found interesting as a brand new race format that's about to hit Germany and it's simply just called 99 laps race. Tell me about it. 99 athletes, 1.2 kilometre loop. Every 15 minutes a new lap starts and every lap someone gets eliminated. No tactics, no nothing. It's just every lap someone's eliminated.

\[57:23\] I like it 1.2 K every 15 minutes. So, so as long as you're not last, well, it's it's. 99 athletes 100100100K. So it's like the cut? It's like the cut, but with the shorter laps. There's a lot more. Actually, now I'm talking it out loud, it's going. I didn't think it was that long. Talk to me about how you'd approach that race. Would you turn it into a match race? Would you basically just go I'll run whatever speed is necessary

\[57:54\] not to come I? Think that's the idea, right? You want. To rule, would you? I'll take the the run in and take the rest. I mean, one point this is what got me interested though, is because a 1.2 K loop really isn't that far. Well, theoretically. So around this idea of rest or whatever a way, the way I see it, when you've got every 15 minutes and you've only got to run 1.2 K, you can get run that fast if you needed to. And that's where it opened up an idea to me around, OK, it makes more sense this one that you're

\[58:24\] going to have athletes like actually sprinting each other not to finish last, multiple athletes sprinting not to finish last, only to then have to jump back in and do it again and again and again. But with enough rest, that'll be competitive. That's where I saw it going. Thinking of it now where I where I'm trying to get to with this and what I think would be a race format that would really work well and be of interest to watch and, and somehow they got to make this into a 2 hour format. Is this this idea of elimination

\[58:57\] at the right distance where it's enough insurance that it's still insurance? So you can't just be a sprinter or a, you know, like a 1K repper, but you get it done in two hours. People can sit there, watch and it is a proper, like you said, match race where everyone in that field is, it is every lap there's a point where it's like, oh, this is we've got to do this properly. OK, This is where I'll, this is what I see. I love the cut for the reason it is, but it is still drawn out.

\[59:30\] So I've just had a. Bring this into ATV friendly format and it's gonna win. Do you wanna OK, well. And this wasn't my idea of an event. Last week. You know what? Do you know what this has just brought back memories for me of and people of Arvin. Did you certainly remember it? Do you remember how Daytona used to work at time zone or still works? No, you hit time. You hit time cut offs, you're playing that game for as long as you get that card. Oh, the the lap. To your time zone. And if you miss the lap, well.

\[01:00:01\] And then and then if you and then if once you miss that time, you your game is over. Well, wouldn't it be? Isn't it? Is there a format where it's it's? That's that it's. Elimination on top, but to stop people from just dawdling, there's also that time factor. There's a checkpoint. It's not a lap, but it's like, OK, so let's. And again, I'm working this out on the fly here. I mean, that's kind of Wings for Life world run.

\[01:00:34\] Yes, Yeah, it is. It is. The idea of it's the the the chasing car or think of it like a rabbit chasing or whatever it is, it speeds up. It. Starts taking more and more people out of the race until you've only got a few. Left So what if you took that wings for life combined with this elimination combined with the an Ultra concept, but that each lap of the ultra, the wings, the the eliminated time becomes faster. So it's not just simple

\[01:01:04\] endurance. It's not just who can grind. Out these laps. You need to increase your pace. See this would work. Not thinking ultras here. I'm not thinking. I'm thinking best runners like cross country. Not definitely not cross country, but that type of format where it's like, you know, through a city, through a shopping centre, urban environment, whatever it is, maybe it's around a grey horse, a greyhound track. I was just. Just the other thing I'm again I'm I'm thinking. Greyhound track with the rabbit. Well, now I'm also thinking,

\[01:01:34\] remember how Mario Kart you'd each each time you would, it would be a new course. Yeah. Imagine if you could incorporate this elimination time factor with suddenly. Like you said, it's kind of like the runners. Like you're able to get a mushroom along the way. I was thinking, OK, now you're off on a cross country course for this lap and now you're doing a street circuit and now you're doing through a running mall. But yeah, did. You see, not Nike with the A is it a CGI? Think they're they're outdoor, I guess.

\[01:02:04\] ACG Yeah yeah, their new outdoor stuff they did they'd set up inside a warehouse a mini mountain loop with all the different trail versions of it Cool, but it was I can't remember the loop size, but let's just for argument say say it was a 400 metre loop and they ran an ultra or whatever it was in that loop just did lapse and laps and laps and laps. I mean, that looked awful, but I mean, anything for marketing, right? But no, these these, these legs in this idea. I now I've reread this one. Yeah, the 99 at one point. There's 100K race.

\[01:02:35\] It's still probably like, because inevitably 100K race with the type of athletes I assume you'd get to do this. Yeah. It's still gonna be slow. So it's gonna be boring. It's gonna be boring. It's gonna be slow. You want to see runners running. This is this is where I've always want to see runners running at the top end of what they can do. I don't want to see a runner just surviving. I want to see someone running like racing. Multiple people racing in some type of elimination format works

\[01:03:07\] for me. I've just had a thought, right? I'm. And then look, we could sit here and hypothesise and extrapolate how this event could go. But quickly in my mind, for whatever reason, I've been drawn to the Tan, right? As it as it. No, no, no. But just the tan is a distance, right? Imagine that's the track, OK, but there's a it's like a it's like the Sprint jersey in the Tour de France where they get the the points bonus for at the top of climbs. Imagine if there was a time bonus available to the runners that hit certain points each lap. Now, if you lead the whole lap,

\[01:03:38\] happy days. But then on this next lap you get that extra. So you can like, let's say again, for lack of a better example, Chewy mix 1\. All right, first lap there's a a 5 second or three second bonus at the top of that Tam climb, right? And then there's a three second overall bonus for winning the whole race. So Stewart McSweyn on lap 2 has 6 seconds to play with, so it can be 6\. Seconds. I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna stop because Because. We could sit here and do this.

\[01:04:08\] No, no, no, no. I just see the difference because I've seen this try, I've I've I've seen this attempted. Courtney's put his race director hat on. By the way, I've. Seen people, I've seen this attempted in the way of trying to bring into not just running, but sports certain elements to make it more interesting. So like, it's little novelty, elements of time bonuses and all this. We did this in triathlon when we're racing back on TV, so I remember it. Yeah, they would. We did elimination formats and

\[01:04:40\] then they mixed it up. So 1, you had to swim 1st and then you had to ride first. So they got differences. The difference with cycling and even if you wanted to go to NASCAR, is when there's different energy used to do certain things. So like there's drafting and cycling, so a sprinter can sit on the back and Sprint and then get back in the draught and use a lot less energy. Same with the cars. You know you're behind the cars you're using different if you know you draught and then you're

\[01:05:12\] coming out, all of that type of thing. The reality with anything to do with running is the fastest runner is just going to win. Like if you're the best runner, you you're the fastest, you're the best runner. So like, there's no way me sitting behind you is not going to make it much easier. We need to look into team events then. Well, I think there's something in this elimination of but the best runner still. Wins best runner still wins, so you need to make it a team you're. Trying to make the best runner, not win. You're trying to make it interesting. You're trying to make it a handicap. Teams work. We, you know, are we trying to make you set up a show?

\[01:05:43\] How? Now that's the handicap store. Here's the thing to bring it all back. Sha'Carri Richardson's winning the store gift would not have been half as exciting if all those runners had started on the line together, correct? Because she would have won the thing by 15 metres. Correct. What made at the moment, what made it story, what made it unforgettable, is the way she came from as far back as she did off scratch and then broke through the tape first. Yep, we can agree on that. All right, look, fun episode, make sure you subscribe, make sure you're sharing with your

\[01:06:13\] friends and thank you to everybody that's come back and suggested things they'd like to hear from the marathon series. We are working on a bat. We hear we hear the people that want us more to go down the first time marathon runner path again. We also hear those of you someone said that they'd like to hear a bit of chat about the half marathon preparation, which is something we didn't do last year. So we are hearing all that. Please keep sending it through. If there's stuff you'd like us to cover off in the marathon series, make sure you send us a message and we'll see you next week. Yep. See you next week, Yeah?