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# EP 39 - AGE VS PERFORAMCE
- URL: https://www.inthebeginningpodcast.com/ep-39-age-vs-perforamce/
- Published: 2025-06-13T06:00:00.000Z
- Updated: 2026-08-20T10:15:18.000Z
- Description: Courtney Atkinson and Liam Flanagan on heart rate training, Gold Coast Marathon, Olympics & 2032 — recorded on the Gold Coast.
- Author: Courtney Atkinson
- Tags: Episodes, Main Feed, Sports Science, Gold Coast Marathon, Olympics, Ultra Running, #Import 2026-07-28 20:58

*Courtney Atkinson and Liam Flanagan on heart rate training, Gold Coast Marathon, Olympics & 2032 — recorded on the Gold Coast.*

## Listen

Listen on [Spotify](https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/inthebeginningpodcast/episodes/EP-39---AGE-VS-PERFORAMCE-e344rif?ref=inthebeginningpodcast.com) or [Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-39-age-vs-perforamce/id1772010786?i=1000712779422&uo=4&ref=inthebeginningpodcast.com).

## Full transcript

Auto-generated transcript. Timestamps approximate. Hosts: Courtney Atkinson & Liam Flanagan.

**Read the full transcript** 

\[00:00\] In the Beginning, episode 39, three weeks out from the Gold Coast Marathon. I hope you're enjoying the Gold Coast Marathon special episodes we've been dropping, but Courtney Atkinson, as people are listening to this on their Saturday morning run, where are you right now? We're in the thick of Red Bull Race the Sun, so this is probably the most stressful 24 hours of my year and I'm not running — I'm trying to organise this thing. We've got a great team from Red Bull, of course, but you know, in the end, the buck stops

\[00:30\] with me. So today, while people listen to this on their Saturday morning, you are in race director mode. Remind us what Race the Sun is. So Race the Sun is the event we talked about where we've got 15 teams and six runners, and in relay fashion they've got to go from the Gold Coast starting at sunrise — we're going to get a sunrise this year for the first time by the looks of it, nice crisp, clear days — and then they've got to go 345

\[01:02\] kilometres, 7,700 metres of vertical elevation. There's trail sections, there's road, there's dirt, with the goal of getting to Tenterfield, out in northern NSW, before the sun rises again the next morning. So 24 hours. And we did the maths on the rough pace they need to average throughout — it's quick. But you know what, this year we

\[01:33\] know it's a great turnout. So I've got a message — we're talking about guys running across Australia at the moment, it's a hot topic. Got a message from Chris Turnbull, the guy we talked about last week who had the record before William Goodge broke it. He's out there running today, is he? Really? Wow, he's coming. We've got a couple of sub-2:20 runners coming from New Zealand all the way across the ditch, so it could be an earlier morning

\[02:03\] than I thought at the finish, 'cause there's some solid crew coming out. We've got Trails, which is Samantha Gash coming up from Melbourne with her team. So it's a wide range of people out there doing it. And they'll be out there, as you know, in the middle of the night, and they're calling it an Arctic blast. It's cold here at the moment — 6 degrees here on the Gold Coast. I know coming back from the trials this morning it was 19, so the days are going to be fine, but Canungra this morning was -1\. There's some

\[02:35\] proper chill in the morning. OK, so make some predictions for us quickly then. That's awesome that Chris Turnbull's come in. You've got that elite pointy end of the spectrum — how many teams beat the Sun? We've made it a little bit harder this year, with some sections where we're making one runner run — like at 1 a.m. at night, a runner from each team's gonna have to run a half marathon along a dirt road before they get back into the mix of

\[03:05\] switching over. We're making some runners from the team run up quite a hill — up Beechmont, up the back here, large hills. So come on, how many make it? I'm going to tip — I'll go for about the same as last year, on average I reckon we'll get about five teams make it. I've got a bad feeling that the fastest team this year is going to go a little bit quicker than the fastest team last year, which is going to throw out my whole structure for how we run the event. But that's it —

\[03:36\] we can't control who comes. And the fact that the Kiwi team coming over has got three guys who have run under 2:20, and their female runners are both kind of three-hour type runners — I don't want to create more work for you because I know as people listen to this, you are flat stick, right, you're in work mode — but I would love, if possible, for you to bring to the pod next week some reactions at the finish line, some vox

\[04:09\] pops, as we call them in the radio game — some recordings of people at the finish line. We've got a content team doing that type of stuff, so we'll delegate. I'm sure we'll get some of that. In that case, I want some vox pops, I want some camera shots, I want a reel — if you're listening, jump onto the In the Beginning Podcast Instagram today and I'll share some stories as we go along the way. I'll be putting them on my channel too, so literally,

\[04:39\] yeah, let's do that. But wait — you talked about a week, I've had New Zealand — I'll talk about that later. What are you doing over there? We'll get that into my week and running. You talk about trying to bite off more than you can chew — it's one of those weeks. But we are counting down to the Gold Coast Marathon as well — three weeks out from start day. You sent me a

\[05:11\] reel — I don't think this is going to be a thing, but you're convinced that the Gold Coast Marathon might need a smoking section. I'm thinking, you know, like when you go to an airport and they've got a boxed-off area where you have to go for your ciggies — I'm thinking the Gold Coast Marathon may need this at the finish line, a glass house to put the smokers in. It's becoming a trend. I sent it to you — that fella, Matt Johnson, I think his name

\[05:41\] was Matt Johnson — I don't know what he's doing, but he's a fit-looking dude sitting in front of a treadmill, finished his session, got the darts out. This is silly, off the back of the William Goodge stuff — finishing each day with a cigarette and a beer. This is classic stupid social media, this is idiocy, and it's the monkey-see, monkey

\[06:11\] do behaviour. And in the same way, I think it's irresponsible of people who don't know how to give running advice to go on Instagram and give running advice. It's also stupid for people to think that smoking a cigarette after your exercise is going to help you break a running-across-Australia record — it's just dumb. As long as people can appreciate it for what it is, that's fine, there's a bit of theatre

\[06:41\] going on, but that's the last thing you want to be promoting, right? I also think all this is about imitating — if someone's already doing it, William Goodge has got this right, he's made the most noise about it, he's run across Australia and done darts and beers and all the rest of it — that's his thing now. If you want to become an influencer, if you want to become a personality within this space, find something else that's not taken. Don't jump on that train and try to make it your thing too, because you can only ever

\[07:11\] be second to it. Same — don't think you can go and do cream doughnuts after you run. Happy Alan's already got the Long John doughnuts thing. Leave it alone, that's his, find a new thing. And trust me, the way Alan — his real name's Alex, but the way Alan is rolling, let him have it. That looks tough, having to — when you make that thing, you think, put weight on. He reckons he's getting fat. For anyone listening, this is a guy on social media who literally every day just finds the best —

\[07:41\] I'll talk about him for a moment because we had him on the radio show. His name's Alex, everyone calls him Alan, so he's Happy Alan on Instagram, big shout out. We had him in studio, he's a great fella, young bloke, was working for an asbestos removal company. They gave him the flick because he kept taking days off to go film himself. But he filmed this thing, once it went viral he did it again, the followers, the audience stayed, and now it's a thing. Now what I'm really impressed by is the fact

\[08:14\] he's now gone away and he's trying to find a way to make money out of it. We had a chat about the fact that he's like, well, how do I make this a career, make a living out of what he's done. I don't know who he's partnered up with, but he's gone away and created a YouTube channel for himself — understandable — and I said to him after the first episode, it's called Baked Goods TV, I think he's up to 2,000 subscribers or something at the moment. The videos, the couple he's got up, have had about 5,000 views. But the production value's really good. I don't know who he's partnered

\[08:44\] with to get this rolling, but the studio set-up is clean, the production value's really good, and it's unique — it's himself. I don't know how he's going to go monetising it because he's smoking and swearing and all the rest of that — that doesn't mean it's not sponsorable, but it makes it harder. But he's unashamedly himself. His guests so far — he's had Will Sparks the DJ, he's had a cricketer — so there's people gravitating towards his style of doing things, and I'm really excited for him and best of luck to him.

\[09:14\] But if you start smoking and start eating Long Johns and think you can make that yours, you can't — that course is bolted, that's his, find something else, do a bag of Skittles, I don't know. Well, we went on a tangent then, Liam — back to the Gold Coast, back to the Gold Coast Marathon smoking era. It ain't gonna happen, by the way. But on the Gold Coast — Ryan Kelso, #1 fan, shout-out runner. And Bronte's comment about needing tunes for her Gold Coast Marathon, since she wanted a

\[09:45\] playlist. She wants us to make an In the Beginning Podcast playlist for runners. Well, that's easy to do — anyone got any ideas, the songs, just shoot them in and we can do that. I like it, because the thing that jumps into my head — when Bronte mentioned this on that Gold Coast Marathon episode, for me, I don't know if I have that habit of falling into the pace of the song.

\[10:16\] So I don't know if I'd want to be trying out a new playlist for a marathon where I'm committed to running or trying to stick to a pace or a time. It sounds like Liam's shutting this down. I'm not, I'm happy to contribute to an In the Beginning marathon playlist, we can make one. All I'm saying is we pick songs that are above 180 tempo — well, what if you're not running at that tempo, Courtney? OK, we've got problems, don't use it for the marathon. But what I'm saying is we'll do it, but if you blow up at 30 Ks, I

\[10:48\] don't want anybody blaming the playlist, right, that's all I'm hedging against. Now the Polar H10 heart rate sensor and the Polar Pacer comp — thank you for everyone's comments, they were absolutely brilliant. You know, this is a shameless way to make ourselves feel better about ourselves, we should do more competitions because it gives you the warm and fuzzies reading all the lovely comments. We've picked a winner and we'll tell you who it is right after these

\[11:19\] messages — no, we'll get to it at the end of the podcast, so please stick around and we will share the winner of the Polar Pacer and the H10 heart rate chest strap, all thanks to Polar. I'm loving running with my heart rate monitor by the way — the actual information I'm getting back is super useful, it's giving me a much better idea of where I'm at running. I'm not quite there to put a heart rate strap on at the moment, but not too far off. Back to running — there's a really exciting project in the world of running, I'm really excited about it.

\[11:49\] How are you feeling about it? Nike here again doing it — Breaking4\. So for those people that don't know about Breaking2, which was the Eliud Kipchoge experiment — how long ago did you do Breaking2? Like five years ago, I'm just going to take a stab at that. It was announced in 2016, he raced it in 2017 — so it's almost eight years ago, this was

\[12:20\] when Eliud Kipchoge, at a race track in Monza in Italy, with all the benefits — the pacers, the pace car, runners to run behind — attempted to break, yeah, he had the two out of the tree and echelon of runners breaking the wind for him. That's super interesting, it was that long ago and no one's still broken two hours. Now for those that don't remember, he ran two hours and 25 seconds — so he was 26 seconds short of breaking two hours in

\[12:54\] that experiment. But even eight years on, in a race situation the fact he went that time — eight years is a long time, it just goes to show the shoes, that first shoe they brought out was the real milestone jump in technology, so there obviously hasn't been as big a breakthrough since then in running shoe technology. The world record for those playing along is still 2:00:57, so you're still three minutes off breaking two hours in an official race.

\[13:24\] But what they're doing with Breaking4 is really exciting because now they're taking it to the women's track, and they're highlighting Faith Kipyegon, who for those that remember was the gold medallist ahead of our own Jess Hull at the last Olympic Games, down the Aussie, in the women's 1500\. And the challenge now for Faith is, can she become the first ever female to break the four-minute mile barrier. I'm going to say yes — you think she does it? Yes.

\[13:55\] So you're the pro here, mate — explain to me what benefits they can create for Faith, in the way that with Eliud they had the pace car in front of him, they had that echelon of runners providing the wind resistance, they had everything possible, the specific track, everything set up to help him. What can they do for Faith in a track environment like this to help her break four minutes over a mile? All the same thing, just load her up in front with pacers. I don't know what they're doing around this — are they using males to pace her? That would be the obvious thing, let me ask you that.

\[14:26\] What would you be doing, aside from males pacing, what else could they possibly do with it? Is there a faster track, is there a location which makes this more achievable? I don't know enough about it, would be interesting to see where they're doing it. It says this is happening June 26th. The challenge with tracks — like in cycling, when they break records they always go to altitude because of the wind resistance, but the problem is there's a trade-off with the oxygen you get. So yes, less wind resistance, or

\[14:59\] not — you know what I mean, you're at altitude, it's easier in one way but it's harder to breathe. So I couldn't see them going up to where there's less oxygen to do this. Paris — OK, so we're — just found it, it's June 26th in Paris. OK, I forget everything I would have said, but that is true, and that's probably why they're going to Paris. What can they do — do they use an illegal shoe? Track shoes are pretty defined, so have they got a new shoe? I'd say being that it's Nike, it probably is, but I

\[15:30\] haven't seen any of this information. Is it going to be done in legal conditions — that would mean using a legal shoe. Is it done in legal conditions with legal pacers, or are they just throwing the rule book out the window? If that's the case — new shoes, male pacers — for all's sake you could get some big fan, put it at a track and go around in circles, get some industrial fans and get like an endless tailwind. Don't laugh — if they did that, I feel like that

\[16:02\] would be like — we'll just put her on a moving track. You think at that point it gets silly, they can't do that. I'm just reading some information about the race, and there's one particular blog I'm having a flick through that says she's no chance — she's declaring she's no chance of doing it. The first bloke to do it — how's your track history?

\[16:33\] I'm going to get this wrong, I'm going to get shamed here, there's people out there listening screaming the answer into their headphones right now — his name was Roger Bannister, correct? Well done, I got there, your reputation was in danger there, Courtney Atkinson — that was my memory in play, but OK. Roger Bannister ran 3:59.4 at the Iffley Road track in Oxford, England, on May 6th, 1954\. He became the most famous runner of all time when he became the first sub-4.

\[17:04\] Interestingly, and I don't have the data in front of me, but once he did it — I think Herb Elliott got there next — but there was suddenly a mental thing because once he did it, there was a real run of athletes that achieved it. So it was that whole thing of if you can see it, you can beat it, and all of a sudden everyone saw that the sub-4-minute mile was possible and a bunch of them did it. I think that's what's happened in Australian marathoning over the past three to four years as well — some guys

\[17:36\] and girls have started running faster and everyone's just like, well, that's possible now — I train with that person, I can run as quick as them. And I think that's how a lot of the momentum in Australian middle- and long-distance running has happened. Just to go back to Faith Kipyegon — a bit of information about her, gold medals in the last three Olympic Games, 2016, 2020, 2024, no one else, male or female, has achieved that distinction. She's got the world record in the mile for women at 4:07.64, so she's looking at an eight-

\[18:08\] second improvement roughly. And she's got the world record at 1500 metres, which is 3:49.04, which basically works out to be the same. Seven seconds is a lot — can I retract my original answer, unless she's got the fans? So you don't think seven seconds is achievable no matter what Nike does for her? Short of giving her an illegal tailwind the whole time, or something else — but she's still in competition, I think she's 31 at the moment. Seven seconds is a lot, at that speed —

\[18:42\] well, not so much at that speed, but just in four minutes to take out. So she's got to pull back — I want to say about a second and a half a lap, or just over a second and a half. I'm reading this data, and I'll credit him because the website is bringbackthemile.com, so it's obviously someone dedicated to the mile distance. This says, to run a 3:59.9 mile, Kipyegon should be able to run 800 metres in about 1:51 to 1:52\. In real life, her best 800 is 1:57.6.

\[19:14\] So she's talking about a four-and-a-half-second improvement per 800\. Well, we'll see, right? What date is it, June 25th, I think it was — June the 26th, in Paris. You can watch it on YouTube. Alright, I'll be there — I will, absolutely. You know what we've talked about, what gets you to watch running — this gets me to watch running, yes it does, 'cause there's a story, there's a storyline.

\[19:44\] That's a cool storyline. Hey, this is an interesting one — a few of my brother's mates have been talking about this, and since we've got such a wide range of audience — 22-year-olds listening right through to 60-plus — I don't see the demographic, I just see runners, but hey, age decline, great topic. So some of

\[20:15\] my running partners were having a good argument about it — one side is adamant that people stop performing at 40-plus because of mindset, because mentally they're like, I'm 40 now, OK, I've had enough. The other side is, while some can still perform at a decent level, it's a progressive decline from 40 or even earlier. What do you think? I think it's harder,

\[20:52\] definitely, and I think mindset has definitely — at both ends of the spectrum. I was explaining this two or three days ago — Tour de France is a great one, let's go to cycling for a shake. No one thought anyone could win the Tour de France at 22, 23 years of age, it was always an old man — you had to do your distances, your races, whatever. Now it's just accepted, 22, 23-year-olds are up there winning the Tour de France, it's completely flipped. Olympic-distance triathlon's the same thing — it was a real —

\[21:23\] you had to mature, you had to do your mileage, your racing — that's been proven wrong. Now the young guys are coming out doing just as well in that space, or doing the best in that space, without that background. What's his name, Pogačar — yep, he won the Tour de France at 21\. All of them are quite young at the moment, they're a little bit older now but they're still mid-20s. That was unheard of. On the same end, on the other end of the scale

\[21:53\] though, you've got 40-plus — you take the Hawaii Ironman, there's been multiple guys who have won that as they're coming into their 40s. We talked about Cameron Wurf the other day breaking the old-man world record in the cycle and still getting top-ten sort of results, into his 40s. I actually do believe it's all a mindset thing, but I think the mindset thing's not so much about, oh look, I've got this in my mind

\[22:23\] now, I can get across it — like, there's definitely things as you get older that you've got to address, your strength is going to decrease, there's a whole range of things. But if you've got all of that background and you can use it still while you're in your 40s, and do all the extra stuff to manage your body, yes, you still can perform. But then I'm on both sides of this fence, because I do believe there is a decline, you've just got to manage yourself so much better. But mentally, 100%, age isn't the factor it once was. It's interesting

\[22:55\] to hear that, and I think I agree for the most part as well. What I will say from an average athlete perspective, a non-professional athlete — I also think there's examples in other sports, Tom Brady, LeBron James, Steph Curry, all these players, Aaron Rodgers, Cam Smith in the NRL — I'm talking pro. No, no, when I was talking then I was purely elite — you're talking elite athletes, Scott Pendlebury's an example in the AFL right now. The ability to play for longer is

\[23:25\] only, at the professional level, I think being increased by the technology and the progression and all the money that's being invested into these sports — naturally there should be some sort of, an athlete's lifespan should be longer, in both directions, because you talk about those athletes winning the Tour de France younger, it's probably just an indication that the way of thinking about that sport or race from years gone by was narrow.

\[23:59\] So they've opened up their way of thinking about it, and as a result an athlete's career span is now greater than it should be — that just kind of makes sense from an amateur perspective, from a recreational jogger. I actually think it's more to do with your history than your age — if you've got out of your schooling sporting career and

\[24:30\] whatever amateur sporting you might have done in your early 20s — and I'm talking about running here — I think that's a key factor, because I think a lot of people hit that mid-20s, late-20s bracket, stop playing any form of team sport, and suddenly they're like, I've got a bung ankle, I've got a bung knee, I've got a sore hip, I've got whatever, and that's what limits them from a running perspective. I think for me, I got out of my amateur footballing career and

\[25:01\] was fine to run. As a result, I never — I got to probably 28 and I'd never run before or made running my main source of exercise. And suddenly this whole world opens up, and I'm about to turn 41 and I still think I have PBs across every distance ahead of me. There's not a single distance from 5K up that I don't think I can set a new PB on, because my body's fine aside from my calf injuries that I'm dealing with.

\[25:31\] But my body's not a limiting factor to it, and the more I learn, the more educated I'm becoming around the sport. Would you say then, though, environmental factors are still limiting? As you get older — it may not be specifically around the age of 40, but depending on when you have kids and when you've got to put more time into a job and kids, or, like I always say, the more time you're sitting down, the more of a challenge it is at an older age. I like that.

\[26:02\] I think that to me is a more accurate depiction of what happens at 40 — it's not the age, it's everything that comes traditionally at that stage of life. If you're a single person who doesn't have a family, who has the means to basically live your life the way you want, the age is almost irrelevant — because if you've got the means to tackle things as you choose, with the resources, time and energy you want to put into it, you can

\[26:32\] be selfish, because yourself is your only aspect of your life, the age is irrelevant — as much as it's as hard as you want to go, as hard as you want to work. But if you're married, with a mortgage, with kids, with all these traditional environmental factors — more stress at work as you climb the ladder — if you're on that path, traditionally the path leads up for a lot of people, and as it leads up and your plate gets busier with other things, all those other stresses are a factor.

\[27:02\] That's what I truly believe is actually the biggest downfall in all this. The other thing is what we talked about earlier, about the smoking and the following mentality — I also believe as more people have gone on to run UTAs or marathons, and it's more acceptable, more permissible at 40, and people are improving doing all that, everyone just follows — oh well, I can do that. So you've broken down that kind of glass ceiling, that barrier is purely just

\[27:32\] people following — that can be done by him or my friend or whoever, and I can do that as well. At both ends of the spectrum, again, because what we're seeing in the marathon data is runners running marathons earlier and earlier in their age — the young 20s are the ones driving this marathon boom, crazy. It's a cool chat, I've enjoyed that, that's really cool. I've got one for you — I was reading, I don't know where I was, but I was on a plane, I think, reading news.com.

\[28:03\] au. And I've travelled the world most of my life racing, and it only just occurred to me with this article — did you realise Africa is wider than the whole of Eastern Europe? And when I say Eastern Europe I'm including the continent of Russia. Say that again — so the whole continent of Russia, from the actual boundary of Russia. I think there's Poland there,

\[28:33\] maybe — oh, you're talking about over — OK, so Russia inside — that's what I'm looking at. I'm going to put this up, for those watching on Spotify video I'll put it up. So from the far eastern point of the continent of Russia, through to the far western point of the continent, that is — oh wow, so that is — because on the globe we have been taught, just like the world, with the old flat map. We have been, if this article's

\[29:04\] true, I haven't checked this, we have been sold a lie throughout our whole schooling, throughout all our maps. Now, if you compare — can you pronounce that one — Mercator, the Mercator map, versus the actual true size of land mass — effectively what they're saying is the way maps have been in the past, with straight lines being positioned, are for sailors

\[29:37\] to go around the world on a flat map, and when they'd have the map in that way — and someone who's even got some geography degree is gonna crush me on this, the way I'm explaining it — but effectively the whole map is warped, the maps we're used to looking at are warped, distorted. So Australia on the map is distorted to look a lot bigger than it would compared to where the equator is, to get it flat. Until I saw this article, I know, I know.

\[30:12\] It's hard to explain, but Courtney's mind is exploding a little bit here. I'm baffled — on the traditional globe as we know it, the globe map that's been flattened out for the purposes of being hung on a wall in a classroom, Russia appears west to east to be the largest thing on the planet. Correct. Another way to put it — if you look at Greenland on a world map, it's the size of Russia — sorry, it's the size of Africa.

\[30:44\] But Africa in true landmass is actually 14 times bigger than Greenland. So what you're saying is, if I was to run across Russia it would seem more impressive than if I ran across Africa? Correct — and I'm sure someone has used that to their advantage. What I'm also saying is, well, we've gone through how many years of schooling — and no matter what, if this is true, that if someone tells

\[31:16\] you something enough, you believe it — you're becoming a conspiracy theorist. This is going into dangerous territory for this podcast, Courtney. So, OK — Africa's four times as big as Australia, but have a look at the map — we need to go and run around Greenland, and then everyone will think we've run around something as big as Africa, and then we say, look how big it is, just look at the map, how big it is. Another way to look at it — turn the world map upside down, it looks weird, right? Because when you never look at

\[31:47\] it like that — but who's to say the word, who's to say north should be up? Are you starting to talk to me about flat-earth stuff — this has gone somewhere I didn't think we'd be exploring. Normally when you put stuff on the run sheet I just go, oh yeah, Courtney will take this somewhere interesting, but today you've taken us into conspiracy-theory territory, about the world being distorted. It's not a conspiracy, that's the point — we've been schooled and provided with — spoken like a true conspiracy theorist.

\[32:18\] Jeez, I hope that article's right, because otherwise I'm looking like a right tosser. I like it — hey, tell us a bit more, now, to what I want to talk about. I don't know how I ended up here, but the film Fight Club — have you ever seen it? Of course. OK, awesome movie, Brad Pitt, and every bloke who might have dreamed about getting themselves in great nick, Brad Pitt's physique in that film —

\[32:48\] it's impressive work. This is what I wanted to ask you about, right — you're a professional athlete who didn't train for aesthetics, you trained for performance. Looking at Brad Pitt there though, obviously there's a lot of gym involved with that, and a lot of stripping — but according to what I've found, cardio was the key. I know you're not

\[33:19\] a trainer for aesthetics, but from a how-much-cardio-do-you-think-he's-mixing-in, weekly basis, clean eating of course assumed and all that stuff, but from a cardio perspective — but see, he wasn't huge in the film, he was actually quite lean, super lean. Muscular-wise he was a light frame, he was just so lean, it just looked impressive — that's a lot different to trying to bulk up and clean, right.

\[33:50\] He was stripping, obviously doing some weights, but — so you're asking me what the cardio was, he just had to do more cardio than he was eating, he would have been in a major calorie deficit before the movie. He was running at about 6% body fat apparently in that film, or 4 to 5, low. But cardio was apparently the thing — cardio, cardio, cardio, but he only did it twice a week. But this is what I wanted to get your thoughts on — he would do an hour on the treadmill, but he was operating

\[34:23\] for that hour at 80 to 90% max heart rate, just burning the most calories he could. So an hour at 80 to 90% of his max heart rate — that's probably improbable, if you think about your threshold compared to your max heart rate — what's redlining for you? We've talked a little bit about it —

\[34:53\] but I'd use 178 as my max, that would be my max when I do testing, and if I was to run 10K I could hold between that 164 to 168, but if I got into the 170s, I'm cooked. So what's that as a percentage? Well, 164 to 168 is sort of around 92, 93 percent of your — but let's say 168 on 178, that's 89, OK.

\[35:23\] So you're at around that 90%, right — that's about the zone Brad Pitt's reportedly at. But that was 10K, wouldn't last a half marathon. I was gonna say — how long, so you're doing your 10K in about 34, 33, 32, 31 minutes, what's your best 10K, your 10K PB running off the bike? We'd always be around that 30 off the bike. So you're running 30 minutes. So apparently Brad was doing an hour at 80 to 90%, so he would

\[35:53\] then be doubling what you're doing, time-wise maybe. Do we think I've fallen for a bit of misinformation here? It's a good discussion, it's great. I'm more around the body shape he had in there, because in today's movies it's rare to see, everyone's buffed — most of the stars of today's action movies would have been eating, you know, 14 eggs

\[36:23\] and whatever else, chicken breasts and everything else to bulk up, and then also stripping down to get that frame where it's just pure stripped-back body fat but still got that light muscle — he looks like a runner. Well, hey, and have you seen Snatch, the Guy Ritchie film as well? Yeah, same in that, where he plays the gypsy boxer, very lean, always got a frame that lends itself to that anyway. But I'm going to imagine they do some good diuretics going

\[36:54\] on as well, yeah, they'd be — well, how much — you're not the right person for this because you're an actual athlete again, who's training to perform, not to look good — but I've got a vague recollection of someone who did some fitness modelling, talking about in the lead-up to their shoot day they would be dehydrating themselves, basically not drinking, I'm assuming, so they can accelerate it as well. I'm going to continue to dive — if anybody's got any movies or

\[37:25\] TV shows that involve running that they're interested about, send them through, because I'm going to delve into the world of running on the silver screen, because I wonder which action star has run the most K's in their movies over their careers. Well, most of them probably had stunt doubles — you'd say Tom Cruise is probably — let me rephrase that, I wonder which action star's character, on paper, whether it's them or not — yeah, well, that ruins the game, play the game,

\[37:58\] play the game, Courtney. I wonder how far did Forrest Gump, according to the script, actually run? Oh, that's a good call — how much did Tom Hanks actually run in Forrest Gump? I reckon he ran less and just grew his beard. But if the script says he ran from that state to that state and started running, how far did he run versus how much running did he have to do in the film? I'm gonna take a stab and say he was running like max 100 metres,

\[38:28\] 100 metres, and did it a couple of times and then, alright, done. Next week on the show — you've received that one. Next week on the podcast I'll bring you the running facts about Forrest Gump. If anybody has one, take a note so we make sure — while you're taking a note, because that's a great conversation, I want to keep going on that one next week. While you're taking that note, I want to give a shout-out to our Apple listeners, because when we're doing the giveaway and everything we offer, we use Spotify unashamedly.

\[39:00\] And what we do realise is there's a lot of people who listen to us on Apple as well, so we want to give a shout-out today to the Apple listeners, those of you who are on there. So quick couple of shout-outs — now what's interesting with Apple, I know they do have the names there — so TJ from Byron, thank you, thank you for the shout-out — TJ, Addy — star one, that has to be an Adidas —

\[39:30\] Adidas. Always with a downhill skier — Alice from New Zealand, and she actually rides Salomon skis, but is sponsored for gear by Adidas, their Terrex collection. And I said to her — I'm in the car, I was driving her to this conference I was at — and I said, Adidas, sorry, Adidas — and she said, Adidas, Adidas, Adidas, like there's only one way to say it, because she lives literally spends all

\[40:01\] her time in Austria. And she said, no, no, there's only one way, and it's a German way — Adidas, Adidas, you have to say it like you're Arnold Schwarzenegger. I was given the — get to the — other das, other das — so Adidas, star one, Adidas, OK, yeah — loves us weaving these yarns in — well, there's been plenty of yarns today that have gotten us off track. Mike, BF, best friend, Palomi 94 — look, there's — pretty much there's

\[40:31\] an awesome podcast, those interested in running, really enjoying the marathon tips from Benita — well, that's nothing to do with us, you know what Benita and Brody have been a massive asset. We're gonna have to work out how we get them back on at some stage, because we've only got three weeks left. We'll have plenty more on marathons coming, so thank you to all those Apple listeners, with the giveaways and that — of course we have the Apple comments and the ratings have gone into the draw for the Polar Watch and

\[41:01\] heart rate. So I have one from Rodney — Rodney, great name, but AKA Doctor Ben. Oh really, I didn't realise Doctor Ben was going by Rodney these days — I didn't think he had an Instagram account, but it's funny what you find out about people when they write it in a way you can know what's going on. So — gentlemen, term usually used loosely — don't get to run with Courtney anymore, so I have to comment on Spotify — he's just doubling down, wrist heart rate does not work at all — though he's saying some

\[41:34\] people's does correlate depending on the sessions. OK, he's saying, I've bullied enough people into thinking wrist watches are useless, and I'm still going to bully people to think that, really — long, hard sessions, either in the rain or on particularly sweaty days up here in Queensland, that's when the — this stuff happens — but pretty much chest straps are more reliable. Summary — in summary,

\[42:05\] test your gear for what works for you. So basically, don't go on what we're saying, don't go on what anybody who sold you the stuff says — you need to test what works for you to figure out whether it's going to be a reliable, accurate measure of your heart rate. Interesting to note that he dropped this at the very end of that message — he said, anyone who has listened to all the podcasts should be able to work out where Courtney is going for his marathon debut. I have no inside information, but I can still tell you where. So the thing that upsets me

\[42:35\] there, Ben, is I sit across from Courtney and I can't work out where he's going. Have you made the decision? No, I'm — we'll get into my running a little bit on it, but I'm nowhere near it. The point is it's all well and good talking about it or having ideas, but until you're actually in training, running for something, then it's just hearsay, isn't it. Paula Louise, I loved hearing about the New Zealand marathon — thank you, another one, we've opened a can of worms here. Liam, me and my partner were talking last week about doing it next year, and when you guys

\[43:06\] spoke about it, was amazed — they want more footy talk, about Geelong, and I said, well, far out, Geelong gave us a flogging. What footy chat do you want? Have you had any made progress with Will Ashcroft? No, we were gonna investigate, well, we've been so busy — very running stuff, Liam. Yeah, that's later in the year, we'll get on to more of that, but running is our focus at the moment. Geelong gave Gold Coast Suns — well, no, I wasn't a flogging —

\[43:37\] no, no, it wasn't a flogging, look, it was a tough loss for the Suns, and they're in a tricky part of the season at the moment, it's a good test to see where they are against all the other good teams as they start to improve and find their best football. The Suns started really well, they put themselves in a position to make finals, now the challenge is for Dimma and the players to navigate their way through this mid-season and still be in the hunt for finals, coming back from the bye this week.

\[44:08\] They've got the weekend off this weekend, next weekend they're playing GWS down in Sydney — I'll be calling that game down, I'm travelling, going down to Sydney to call that game for Triple M, so I'll be down there, which is always fun. Is it a night game? No, it's a Sunday afternoon, so it should be sunny, hopefully. But GWS are in a bit of a see-sawing season too, so it could go either way. But it's also just great to see that the Expansion Cup, as it's known, where the two expansion sides, GWS and Gold Coast, play each other — both teams are fighting for finals, because in years gone by, early seasons, that game was irrelevant.

\[44:38\] GWS have been on for years now, they've been batting really well, they're going well. So what else have we got on — do we share Justin's comment, or you want to skip ahead to run weeks? Leave Justin's till I can do a bit more research on that — he's got a comment around power-based running. Well, there's some homework for you, I've got to look into Forrest Gump, you've got to look into power-based running. Tell me about your running before I blabber on forever — you've been to New Zealand, we'll get to that story very

\[45:09\] shortly. Quickly, I'm back running a bit, and I appreciate everybody that sent a message after I posted my 10K run — you were one of those people as well. I'm back running over 10Ks for the first time in a very long time, calf felt great. The thing I found after that recent run as well is, as much as I felt like talking about being injured, not being able to run was good, and it was keeping me sort of calm and composed about everything.

\[45:40\] I've realised just how important running is for my mental health, right, and I'm not going to go on about mental health too much because that's not what we do here, but for me personally running is really, really important. I had a pretty tough week on the radio show this week and had a bit of a tough moment on the Wednesday show. It's been Men's Health Week in Australia, that's focused on physical health but also mental health as well, and I shared a story on our radio show, sadly, about

\[46:14\] a mate of mine who's not with us anymore — happened earlier this year, and it was — I've not dealt with it, it's not done by any means, I still miss the guy and still talk to our friends about him. It happened in March, I didn't talk about it then because that was right around Tropical Cyclone Alfred, I would have had lots of other conversations about it, but I spoke about it on the radio show for the first time on Wednesday and got pretty emotional about it, because it's always hard talking about that

\[46:47\] stuff for the first time, publicly. And whilst radio's really fun occasionally, I think you've got — there's a level of responsibility, if you've got that level of platform, to actually use it for something more than just poking fun at whatever's going on on the Gold Coast. It was a really tough morning, great support from everybody around, but then I went for the run the day after.

\[47:17\] And it didn't wash the feelings away, because I'm still sad that my friend's not here, but my brain just felt like a much cleaner place, if that makes sense. Is that because when you were running you weren't thinking? Well, I had a podcast on, I was running the streets, I was just running the roads — what podcast? Come on, what podcast? I was listening to the Bill Simmons podcast, which is American sports, just listening to that, some NBA chat, bit of social media,

\[47:49\] pop culture stuff. So I wasn't really thinking. But also for me, running clearing out my brain is probably the best way I can describe it — there's probably people out there who know exactly what that feels like, and there's probably people out there that go, I don't understand what you mean, clearing out your brain. My brain can be a very busy place at times, and the feeling post-run I have is not quiet, but as clean and unclogged as my brain gets.

\[48:20\] So it's been really nice having that one 10K run banked this week, and I guarantee you, if you ask my wife, she's the one that sees it and she's like, oh yeah, Liam's a much easier bloke to be married to and live with when he's running, because everything else comes with it. I couldn't agree more. And I know for you the trails is that particularly — well, I'm just thinking about

\[48:52\] you said, anyone listening might not know what clearing out — I think that's the beauty of running, is you don't need to know that, you don't even need to think about it, because I think it's just a byproduct everyone gets. Maybe if you're that way inclined, that you're a bit stressed and a bit busy, then you realise how good it is, but most of the time, if it's consistent, it's just part of what you do. And that is what's keeping — I think a lot of things just moving really well. Running's one thing, like you can go surfing and get the same feeling. Exactly.

\[49:22\] And maybe if I went biking I'd probably get the same feeling, maybe sometimes even a better feeling, because I also get that feeling of being out there with a cleared head, but I also get a bit of adrenaline, I come back fired up as well. But yeah, so back running longer, which makes me happier, and the calf feels great. There's still the occasional moment mid-run where — I don't know if it's not quite a placebo, but you know how sometimes

\[49:54\] people have phantom — yeah, phantom pain. Sometimes on those runs I'll have this momentary phantom pain in my calf, which makes me think, oh no, I've done it again. But it's just your brain — your brain's concentrating on where you've felt that pain, and your brain's remembering it in that spot. And that's where running with people can help on the way back — there's a catch-22 with running with people on the way back from injury, because on one side I think it's brilliant

\[50:26\] because you get chatting to someone and it takes your mind off exactly that experience of looking for the problem to reoccur — because that's what you're doing, you're thinking, is it coming, is it coming, is it coming, and if you think about it enough it does come, whether it's a phantom pain or whether it's actually real pain. But then I suppose the more negative side of running with someone on the way back is that they're pushing you a bit hard, out of your — and pushing a little bit too hard can also cause injury back. So like, for example, if you went

\[50:58\] out and ran too fast and overdid it, that's going to make the injury — probably. Well, I got a message from Adzi after he saw that 10K run — he said, I look forward to seeing you at run group. Everybody said settle down, no — he said, I look forward to seeing you at run group this weekend. My brain did that, I was like, oh, but what if — anyway, what about, mate, let's talk New Zealand. I mean, your trip looked amazing. Well, we said we're talking Saturday, so I would have been the — running

\[51:30\] events. So of all weeks, while I'm trying to organise a 24-hour run event for a whole group of people, which is going to be amazing, I had to skip over to New Zealand for the first three days of the week, in the same week. So the reason I was over there — Red Bull gets all the athletes together from all the different countries from time to time. Obviously, being an Australian Red Bull athlete, I'm normally with the Aussies, but part of what I get to do at Red Bull is I also help out —

\[52:01\] and now I'm one of the older crew there, I get to help out in some other ways. So I was over with the New Zealand crew, and the funny thing is, when they talk about imposter syndrome, it doesn't matter what you do, you're always going to have that. I think it'd be interesting to talk to some different people in different areas, because I've often heard people talk about imposter syndrome, but I turn up and I'm the Aussie there. But also everyone is from a different sport — you've literally got some of the best downhill

\[52:33\] mountain bike racers, the best backcountry snowboarders — a young girl they've just picked up from snowboarding, her name's Cool — think of a superstar name, we talked about her, her name's Cool, like C-O-O-L. You're not becoming a Japanese New Zealand athlete, are you, if you're Cool — talk about a superstar, as if she's not going to become a superstar. You know what that's called? Nominative

\[53:03\] determinism — when your name dictates your future career or what you're going to do, it's an actual term called nominative determinism, it's like having a dentist called Doctor Candy. Well, Usain Bolt — you know, Cool is like a name, but she is a snowboarder, that's so awesome. That's so cool, and she was Cool, so cool. But imposter syndrome — yes, I'm just there going, you know, I'm there part of it, we did some yoga one morning, we're out playing golf.

\[53:33\] Hey, got out playing golf, hey, Jaden too. Bad, like, I reckon I'm one out of two, I get one on the — not — we're bad, we're playing Ambrose, but like you, I just talked about the athletes we're with — pretty much, you can imagine those athletes on a golf course in the rain with golf buggies, the golf was the sideshow. I was gonna say, I also often think that for athletes in particular, they're either golfers or they're not, like

\[54:04\] cricketers for the most part, golfers, right, footy players, a lot of them golfers — and then you'll get the world's most coordinated athletes in some other sport, and you put a golf club in their hand and if they can't swing it, you've never seen that athlete look less athletic. It was more Happy Gilmore than it was — so I don't know who you're going to find at Mick Fanning's golf day yesterday. But I mean, I pinch myself sometimes, like, where I end up in the

\[54:35\] experiences and, you know, the next day we're back here trying to get a whole heap of crews safely from the Gold Coast out to Tenterfield. It's just quickly, when — and we don't have to talk too much about this if you don't want — but when you look at the guys and women you raced alongside of, and what some of them are doing now for life — you talk about the pinch-me and the opportunity that Red Bull gave you, you've obviously fulfilled your end of the

\[55:05\] bargain and you continue to do it as an elite athlete, and now with everything you do — but the fact that your life has taken this trajectory post professional Ironman triathlon racing, I don't know what some of your contemporaries are doing with themselves these days. Look, everyone — I think one thing that happens is elite sport teaches you a structure that allows you to succeed in whatever you want to go on to do, if you've got that right mindset.

\[55:36\] So look, obviously some athletes — and this happens a lot — it goes one of two ways. They can fall off the rails too, because there is that depression element of no longer being the big fish in a big pond, or small pond, or whatever you want to call it. And then suddenly they've got to find their way in what we'd call the real world, without the support, without coaches, without people telling them what to do — so there's a whole new relearning there, there's definitely that element. But most of the people I grew up with — I mean, triathlon wasn't

\[56:06\] like you got to retire off triathlon, right, it's not like some — it's not like golfers or footy players, so you generally have to go off and do something else. But some of them have become — you know, in corporate lives, some of my best mates, like I go on holidays with, became really successful in their corporate worlds, sales managers, whatever they are these days, and some people created clothing brands and kicked on that way. The beauty of it — what I'll give you, you know what drives me, the one base element that drives

\[56:39\] me in everything I do, is decisions are made on — I still want to be able to be as close to an athlete, I love the outdoors, I love training, I love being the athlete lifestyle. It's not even the lifestyle, it's actually more the feeling of being able to be fit, outdoors, healthy, and promote that — that's what drives me, because, you know, we're sitting here — that's part of the reason it's great sitting here talking to

\[57:11\] you, is that we're driving people to go out, and some of the comments that come through and say, you know, I'm listening to you and that's helping me get back into running, or some of that — that's what I love doing now more than anything. And I suppose in a way that's where I can kind of give back a little bit to the younger athletes. They're like, oh, this old dude — God, can you imagine when you're like 20, what you thought of. But on the flip side, there's certain elements that I think you'd go, well, I can take some of that stuff away and

\[57:42\] the stuff I don't want to listen to. Yeah, just like — no, it's really cool because everything you just spoke about is fascinating, it's cool to see you doing what you do around the Red Bull brand, I think it's a really cool brand, but it's cool to see the way — it's cool to listen and learn about the way you manage that side of your stuff. But it's also really interesting, I think, a subplot to the professional athlete life which doesn't get talked about a

\[58:14\] lot, and I know a lot of the football organisations are a lot better at managing — you know your career is only a snippet of your life. Well, that'll be a great chat for one of our guests coming up around the Gold Coast Marathon, because, you know, to hit the top of the tree and then know what life looks like for athletes once you're out of racing at an Olympic Games — pretty much my local race conversation each week that I want to keep bringing, so this is a great one. I love — oh, you know

\[58:46\] how much I love Queensland, and this one's from Kyle Adams, he's running events up in Queensland, in God's country around just out west of Gladstone, in the Boyne Valley. He actually wrote to me asking about — he runs a backyard ultra, and I was honest with him and said my backyard ultra is really — yeah, I get it. But he said, don't worry, I've got a 50K through the valley as well, a 50K trail race. So that's more

\[59:16\] interesting. If you're up in the north, or you actually ever want to travel up around that area — you've got Gladstone up there, I've talked a lot about going up to Agnes Water for holidays, that whole area. Kyle runs Milepost Events, if you want to Google it, we'll put the link in as well, but he runs a number of trail events up there — I'll try and get some photos of when I've done some adventuring out the back there in the mountains, it's beautiful, great spot. Mining country, man,

\[59:46\] mining country — we've got to give a shout-out to Davey Wilson. Hey, boys — I'll probably read it, please, there's no difficult words in there. Dave said, long-time listener, first-time commenter, which is great — been here since the beginning, and love how you've challenged my thinking around running and how I've evolved in that time — which is interesting, because we're 10 months in. Dave said, I fell back in love with running, trail running in particular, in 2019, after listening to the book Born to Run.

\[01:00:17\] Now — Born to Run, is that the one about the South American tribe? So if you haven't, it's really — it's by Christopher McDougall, it's called Born to Run: The Hidden Tribe, the Ultra Runners, and the Greatest Race the World Has Never Seen. It's a really good book if you're interested in running. So he's listened to that book as an audiobook —

\[01:00:48\] go check it out. Dave said, it took me all the way back to me as a five-year-old — he's now 42 — starting little athletics, and that feeling of just loving running and competing. It started off slow and quickly turned into a result of following Goggins at the time, into let's-run-as-far-as-we-can-as-soon-as-possible. You would not be alone, Dave, in falling into that trap. He said, what a journey it's been in these past six years — I've had the pleasure of experiencing overtraining, tight ITBs, having to stop and start all over again, but I managed to complete the BTU 60 in just under nine hours.

\[01:01:19\] And last year I PB'd at the GC Marathon in 3:42\. Yes, this year — I love this — this year I've adopted your motto from last week's podcast, of go harder, not longer, thanks for making me a better runner. Grateful. Go harder, not longer — this is the motto we came up with, if anybody missed it, this is your first step, go back and listen to last week's episode. The idea of don't just go further because everyone else is doing it — why not try and go harder, not longer?

\[01:01:50\] We've got — I know we said we wouldn't make T-shirts and start making merch, but I feel like Go Harder Not Longer is a great T-shirt, I'd run in that. Anyway, shout out Dave, thank you mate. Yeah, mate, no, you can trademark it, we're there. What are we talking, I don't know how to trademark things, you might have to do that bit. Alright, have we arrived at giveaway time? We have — Polar Pacer GPS running watch, shout out to the team from Polar,

\[01:02:21\] they're a fantastic partner of the Gold Coast Marathon, and they've gotten behind this podcast as well. We've got the Polar Pacer watch, we've got the H10 heart rate sensor. Courtney Atkinson, would you like to do the honours? I would — that's right, thank you to everyone who wrote in firstly. That's the best drum roll I can do for you — is this the time to say I thought you had it? Oh no — yeah, it would have been.

\[01:02:54\] You know what, I'm going to read the comment and then I'm going to say the name. The comment was this: it's been a while since I've found a podcast that's left me hanging for the next episode to come out, you've become a regular part of my morning gym and run routine, particularly enjoy the combination of the weekend episodes and the Gold Coast series, thanks for keeping me smiling on these chilly Melbourne mornings. Congratulations to Jackie Bladier — Jackie, you have won yourself a Polar Pacer watch and H10 heart rate sensor, and most

\[01:03:29\] importantly, the appreciation of Courtney and myself for getting on board this podcast, because, look, it's easy to get around running and get around this podcast from two Gold Coast blokes if you're on the Gold Coast or in sunny Queensland, but Melbourne, that is a brutal place to be a runner, to train regularly, to get yourself out the door in the morning wearing 17 layers and go and train consistently, and for this podcast to be a part of your routine — Jackie, we are absolutely stoked and we want to thank you for getting behind the podcast

\[01:04:00\] and sending us that comment and giving that rating as well. So we'll get in touch with you on the messages, otherwise DM us on Instagram as well, Jackie, and we'll get that down to you. And if this is successful enough, we'll look to do some more of this in the future. So everybody else that did comment and share, thank you, and we'd love to be able to give you all a watch and a heart rate strap — we don't have that many because there have been hundreds. Now we've got to go and do some work and find some. And I think this has given us sufficient motivation that we

\[01:04:31\] need to go and find some other partners, and there are people out there that have approached us, but we'll find some appropriate partners for us to do some more stuff with down the track. Alright, that is us done, make sure you share this with your friends and family, we keep on growing and we'll see you next week.