> ## Content Index > Fetch the complete content index at: https://www.inthebeginningpodcast.com/llms.txt > Use this file to discover other available public pages before exploring further. # Should A Marathon DNF Cost You 25% More? | EP 106 - URL: https://www.inthebeginningpodcast.com/ep-106-in-the-beginning-podcast/ - Published: 2026-09-25T18:00:00.000Z - Updated: 2026-09-26T09:18:37.000Z - Description: Liam pitches a 25% surcharge for marathon DNFers and Courtney pushes back, plus a Kipchoge breakfast invite and the Alphafly 4 going quiet. - Author: Courtney Atkinson - Tags: Episodes, Main Feed, Australian Running, Running Shoes, Olympics *Liam wants a 25% surcharge on anyone who DNFs a sold-out marathon, refunded the moment they finish. Courtney isn't buying it.* Recorded the day before the AFL Grand Final, with Courtney crook and still pulling up sore from Bridge to Brisbane, two weeks out from the Nike Melbourne Marathon half. Liam is heading to Melbourne too, invited to a breakfast with Eliud Kipchoge, and he's taking a question from Courtney about structure and time. Courtney explains why that question matters to him: racing again is what gives his running a purpose, and the goal now is being able to say yes to any run without worrying about injury. The argument of the week starts on a run with Mick Kelly. With a million-plus people chasing London ballot spots, should you pay for taking a place and not finishing? Liam builds a policy on the fly: a 25% surcharge for a DNF without a doctor's certificate, 50% for not starting, refunded in full when you cross the line. Courtney reckons most people only pull out when they have to. Also in this one: a new segment, Athlete Attitude, on Lachie Neale and Zane Harrison's reported $600k Titans deal set against Hayden Wilde's prize-money run. Plus a BBC producer's 2:20 half marathon while presenting live radio, which Liam reckons he can beat, and why the Alphafly 4 is the first one you won't hear coming. A listener nominates Upper Coomera runner [Dezi](https://www.instagram.com/d%5Fe%5Fz%5F1%5F0%5F1/?ref=inthebeginningpodcast.com) as one to watch, and that becomes a call for your under-the-radar runners. ## In this episode - Courtney's crook, and how hard Bridge to Brisbane knocked him around two weeks out from the Melbourne half - Liam's invite to a breakfast with Eliud Kipchoge, and the question about structure and time Courtney wants asked - Dream sit-downs: Reggie Miller, Pat Rafter, Tiger Woods, Lance Armstrong and David Beckham against John John Florence, Candide Thovex and Jimmy Chin - Athlete Attitude: Lachie Neale's ban being overturned, and whether loyalty exists when sport is a business - Zane Harrison's reported $600k Titans deal, still $350k more than Hayden Wilde's record prize-money run - Should a marathon DNF cost you 25% more next year? Liam's surcharge policy, and a 50% fee for not starting - AFL and NRL grand final tips - Byron lighthouse repeats, 80-90km weeks at a lower intensity, and why racing gives the running a purpose - A BBC producer's 2:20 half marathon while broadcasting live, and Liam's plan to beat it - A listener's pitch for a local spotlight segment, starting with Upper Coomera runner [Dezi](https://www.instagram.com/d%5Fe%5Fz%5F1%5F0%5F1/?ref=inthebeginningpodcast.com) - Listener messages that make it all worthwhile, including one about Benita Willis and running barefoot through the cane fields - The new one-lap Brisbane Marathon course, and why the 2032 Olympic marathon should finish in Brisbane - Nike Alphafly 4: athletes asked for a quieter shoe, and Nike listened - Keely Hodgkinson, Athlos and the case for women's track and field - Rockhampton rowing, the Redlands whitewater venue and Olympic politics ## Timestamps - **0:00** — Crook since Bridge to Brisbane - **2:16** — Breakfast with Kipchoge - **4:53** — Greatness is greatness: Lions, Panthers, Cam Smith - **7:22** — A question for Kipchoge - **9:26** — Dream athlete sit-downs - **19:29** — Looking for young social creators - **20:34** — Athlete Attitude: Lachie Neale - **21:35** — Zane Harrison's $600k question - **24:37** — Should DNFers pay more? - **33:02** — AFL and NRL grand final tips - **34:43** — Byron lighthouse and training check-in - **37:57** — Why Courtney still races - **41:13** — The live-radio half marathon record - **44:32** — Listener tip: watch Dezi - **47:19** — Liam's St Lucia story - **49:56** — Listener messages - **51:27** — The new Brisbane Marathon course - **53:26** — Alphafly 4 goes quiet - **55:24** — Keely Hodgkinson and Athlos - **1:00:11** — Olympic venues and politics ## Listen ## Related In The Beginning episodes - [Bridge To Brisbane In 33:53: Race By Feel, Not By Watch | EP 105](https://www.inthebeginningpodcast.com/ep-105-in-the-beginning-podcast/) - [Mick Kelly On Why He Signed Up For 200 Miles | EP 102](https://www.inthebeginningpodcast.com/ep-102-in-the-beginning-podcast/) - [Benita Willis's Final Marathon Reality Check](https://www.inthebeginningpodcast.com/gold-coast-marathon-series-benitas-final-marathon-reality-check/) - [Andy Buchanan On Marathon Pacing, Super Shoes & Why He Won't Touch AI](https://www.inthebeginningpodcast.com/andy-buchanan-the-aussie-marathon-record-holder-is-coming-back-to-defend-his-gol/) ## In the news The record Liam wants a crack at is real, at least pending the paperwork. On 13 September the BBC reported that Tim Boswell, executive producer at BBC Hereford and Worcester, ran the Worcester City Half Marathon in two hours, twenty minutes and two seconds while presenting a live radio show. The challenge was set by Steve Cram, the 1984 Olympic 1500m silver medallist. Boswell carried his own broadcast kit around the course, plus a large mounted flag on his back, which he lost about halfway round and "just finished the race with a big metal stick poking out". Guinness World Records says the attempt is going through its evidence review ([BBC News](https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crr4eg24gv2o?ref=inthebeginningpodcast.com)). Courtney's Alphafly 4 point checks out as well. Nike's own release notes say the shoe's dual forefoot Air Zoom units "are tuned to quietly work together with the foam and Flyplate", and put the gains at 10% more energy return and 5% less weight than the Alphafly 3 in a men's US 8.5\. It went on limited early release at nike.com on 17 September, with broader availability from 29 October ([Nike](https://about.nike.com/en/newsroom/releases/nike-alphafly-4-helps-more-runners-go-the-distance-with-speed-and-confidence?ref=inthebeginningpodcast.com)). ## Full transcript *Auto-generated transcript, lightly edited for clarity.* Read the full transcript \[00:00\] In The Beginning, episode 106\. Courtney Atkinson, how are you? Liam Flanagan, I'm actually crook. Never mind. I never told you, I hate making sick excuses. It came on a few days before Bridge to Brisbane actually, I was feeling shaky. This is two weeks now, and it hasn't got much better. So since Bridge to Brisbane, literally the only thing I've done of any intensity is four-by-three-minute efforts at marathon pace. \[00:31\] This wasn't on the run sheet, but let's sit in this, because it's an interesting point of view. I remember hearing this when I was maybe 16, 17, working at a bar as a glassy, and one of the girls I was working with was dating an AFL footballer and tried to tell me that they were more prone to sickness because of their elite level of fitness. Is that true? Did you find yourself more susceptible to illness at the height of your career? Definitely, it was easier to get sick when you were in a weight cut. \[01:05\] Okay. So if you're underweight, or trying to purposely be as light as possible, I definitely found I was a lot more prone to sickness in that sense. But I actually blame this on just traveling again. When I went down to Mildura a few weeks ago, it was the first time I'd jumped on a plane in a while, and literally two days later, of course, it hit. And what's your attitude towards running when you get sick? That old bloody rule of thumb: if it's a cold up in the head, keep going within reason; if it moves to the chest, just be a bit careful. \[01:41\] That's pretty much what I thought. So where's this one, in your head or your chest? Well, it's just come down into the chest, which is worrying me a little bit. But even all that aside, I'll tell you one thing: I pulled up from Bridge to Brisbane like a sack of shit. Really? Yeah, I've just been jogging around until my legs come good. Running hard like that for the first time in a long time, it knocked me around a fair bit. So I've been jogging around, getting some good mileage. Well, we're counting you down to your half marathon at the Nike Melbourne Marathon. \[02:15\] Yes, which we're looking forward to. And speaking of that, ladies and gentlemen of the In The Beginning family, I am not going to be running in Melbourne, but I am going to Melbourne, because I have been invited to a special, exclusive breakfast. A very special invite. With the GOAT, Eliud Kipchoge. Yeah, I'm so excited. At the table. I can't say where and I can't say when, but I am going to Melbourne, and I'm going to have an opportunity to sit and listen and eat with the GOAT. \[02:56\] Yeah, I'm so excited. That's good. So Liam's gonna cover the first bit of Melbourne Marathon week and go and have a chat to the GOAT, and then I'll come in on the running side of it. This is just a little bit of background, and again, I'm actually just double checking how much I'm allowed to say about it. Not much. Yep. Location, details confidential. Cool. So I can't say anything. No, but the opportunity to go down, whenever that is and wherever that is. \[03:28\] Melbourne. I think I can say Melbourne. It's a fair guess, given that he's running the race. This is not something I'd normally take up, right? Because it's a long way to go for a day. But I sat on this invitation, and I just found a moment of quiet in my day and went, why not? I can make it happen. I can make it fit. \[03:59\] I don't know if I'll ever get another opportunity to be in a room with Eliud Kipchoge. Why not? At the end of the day, when time passes, two months, three months, four months from now, the time and effort and money that it cost to get down there to be a part of this event, I won't think about any of that. But what I will have is hopefully something to share with everybody here. You've been... Yep. \[04:29\] Hopefully, no, just hopefully something to share with everybody here, and hopefully something that I'll keep with me as I continue to love running moving forward. And you've been really keen on this for a few years, 'cause was it Sydney where there was a chance, potentially, that never came about? You've been excited about this opportunity with him for a long time. Yeah. It's funny, because we're recording this the day before the AFL Grand Final. Yes. And I think in the AFL Grand Final, on today if you listen to this on Saturday, yesterday if you're listening on Sunday, we are witnessing what \[05:07\] could go down as one of the greatest teams of all time in this Brisbane Lions outfit. And as much as I think we, particularly in Australia, the tall poppy thing, eventually we get sick of success. We're seeing it in the NRL right now, right? The last thing the neutral supporters in rugby league want is for the Panthers to win this again. But I think if you can swallow that bad taste, greatness is greatness. And if you've got an opportunity to be around it and witness it, live and in person or on TV, whatever it is, enjoy it. \[05:41\] I often thought this about Cam Smith as he was coming to the end of his career, and he got absolutely hammered by New South Wales fans and non-Storm fans. With Cam, there was greatness. We got to witness maybe the greatest rugby league career of all time. Do you feel that people... I mean, it's a bit biased up here 'cause we're in Queensland, but do you think in general the feeling down south would be that people are against the Lions trying to make it three? Or do you think it's like... A hundred percent. I have no doubt that if you are not a Brisbane Lions supporter in this final, you will be going for Fremantle. \[06:17\] Right. And I think the Lachie Neale saga only added to it. But it seemed like a lot of the ex-players in the media supported him getting back in. Am I right in saying that? In the media I consumed, I had this feeling that actual ex-players, people who've put on a pair of boots and run out on the field, supported him. I think that's fair. And other media were the ones who were championing it up. \[06:50\] Yeah, I think they put themselves in his position. But I do want to get to the Lachie Neale thing a bit later. To go back to Kipchoge. Yes. The point is, an opportunity came up. I had to move some things around, but I cannot wait to, A, experience it, and hopefully, B, bring some stuff back here for In The Beginning from getting to have breakfast with Mr. Kipchoge. I've got one question, 'cause if I don't get to see him on the weekend, which I'm not sure whether I will or not, this is Nike Melbourne Marathon weekend. \[07:22\] I do have one question I'm gonna submit. You want me to submit two? I'm gonna commit you to a question that I need you to ask on my behalf. I have one question. Okay, I can say it now. There was a statement he made, and I won't get the saying exactly right, but he made a statement once, something around training discipline, or having structure in your day: those who have structure are actually the ones that have time available to them. \[07:55\] If you have no discipline or structure, that's when you actually have no time. Okay. I'll have to go and find the exact saying. But pretty much it was translating to: when you have a plan and you have a daily structure that you go about, it actually gives you the freedom of time, because it's so regimented. If you have no plan and no structure, you actually don't ever know what you're doing, and that's when you just flail around and have no time. And that's always stuck with me, because that's how I often feel. I'm trying to find the exact... \[08:25\] I'll find the exact quote for you, but that's my question I would like you to ask. Discipline your lifestyle. Discipline is not a one-time event. Self-discipline is like building your muscle. It's like going to the gym. You cannot go to the gym today and build your muscle. You should get a program and go slowly by slowly. That's the way to build your muscle. This one was more specifically around time. Okay. I'll find it for you and we'll submit it. Yeah. But what I wanna know now is, has it changed for him? Because he's in a different situation to when he said that. Does he still believe in this? \[08:56\] Yeah, or has it changed for him? Does he find himself now without as much structure? Right, because he's getting pulled left, right and centre. And you're not gonna ask that one. No, if I'm given two, I'll get yours away, okay? I don't know how this event I'm getting to attend is gonna work, but... Well, I expect you to be having bacon and eggs or whatever. I don't think Eliud's a bacon and eggs kind of operator. I think he's probably a slow-release, low-GI type of breakfast. \[09:26\] So I asked you to prepare, 'cause we obviously... So is he one of your favourite athletes of all time? He certainly is, but I probably wouldn't have him in my top three. 'Cause this is what I asked you: off the back of this, it got me thinking about who are the athletes that I would love to spend some time with? Who are the greatest of all time that I'd want to know more about, or sit down and actually chat to? Yeah. So did you... I think it's kind of different, because in my head, there's so many athletes that I'm a fan of. \[10:05\] My favourite athletes of all time aren't necessarily the ones that I would like to sit down with and talk to, if that makes sense. Right. So for example, Reggie Miller. Growing up, for basketball fans, I was an Indiana Pacers, Reggie Miller fan. I loved Reggie Miller. I loved the way he carried himself on court. I loved the trash talk; he was an agitator in the world of basketball in the Michael Jordan era. But if you offered me a podcast opportunity with Reggie Miller or Shaq, I'd rather sit down and talk to Shaq. \[10:39\] I just feel like there's more. I'd like to unpack Shaq's story more. I feel like there's more to talk about: the relationship that he had with Kobe Bryant, the dominance they had on court, versus did he actually fulfil his potential? 'Cause he was so dominant, but I feel like... Why wouldn't you want to just sit down with Reggie and just talk shit? There's things I'd like to talk to Reggie about. Yeah. And he was my favourite player growing up, but he's not the one now. Now that I'm in this world a bit more, there's almost a part of me that would prefer to \[11:16\] have a conversation with... I'm just saying, so Reggie's your favourite. That's probably where I was more leading: who are your favourite three athletes? You just see an athlete and you just go, wow. Okay. So Reggie Miller, literally, when I was playing basketball growing up, because that was one of the sports I was playing, loved Reggie Miller. Pat Rafter. I loved Pat Rafter. You've never spoken to Pat? No, I don't think so. I might have spoken to him on the phone once. I'm not sure. \[11:46\] I don't think so. But again, to compare it, I'd love to talk to Pat, but if I had to pick a list of ultimate interviews, I don't know if he'd make that list, you know what I mean? So Reggie Miller, Pat Rafter, and Tiger Woods. Again, not because I'm a diehard golf fan, but I like golf. I think Tiger Woods might have been the most dominant athlete, because of the nuance of golf. \[12:21\] What he did at his peak was arguably more dominant than maybe any other athlete ever. The way he dominated a sport that just doesn't get dominated like that, ever. We see dominant basketball players, we see dominant tennis players, we see dominant soccer players. And then the story that went with it after, and everything else. Everything else. He's gotta be up there with the most... I mean, you talk about stories in sport, from performance right through to then having the rest that goes with it. \[12:57\] I would also love to sit down with Lance Armstrong. I know he talks a lot now, but I'd still love to sit down with him, because I still remember being at Triple M. I was working at Triple M in Sydney the day that all blew up, when Floyd Landis and everything came out. I remember that day at work when it all came out, and then when he did the interview with Oprah. Yes. Still remember all that. Yeah. It was theatre of the highest order. What about you? \[13:27\] Because you didn't hang out with Tiger Woods, but you lived this life. No, and the three athletes I would say, I've never met any of them. I've met a lot of athletes in a lot of sports, right at the top, global athletes, everyone else. But the three I've got: one is John John Florence. Surf. Why? \[13:59\] So I think the athletes I choose are very based around what they do outside of their sport. But with what they get to do outside the sport, they still actually were the best of the best in their sport. So there's actually a lot of relevance in how they operate now. Like John John at the moment, with his company. He's literally just traveling. He just gave up comp for a few years and said, I'm just gonna travel around the world in a yacht and find the best waves in the world and film it. \[14:33\] There's no putting on a show for social media. They just film it. It's just old-school surfing, adventure, and it is what it is. And then on top of that, he's done amazing things. But I appreciate the authenticity, and also the ability that he's just been able to go, I'm the best, I've done this, I've done that, but I'm still gonna go and live this other life. And that's a choice. It would be so hard in that position, right, as a sports person. Yep. So he's one. \[15:03\] And I was looking at ages, 'cause it's interesting who I chose and what ages they were, and it's one from each decade. So John John's in his thirties. Yep. My next one, he's 44 now: Candide. And I don't know how to pronounce his last name either, because I've only ever known him as Candide. He's like a pioneer of the free ski world, but he was comp first. He's French. Never heard of him. No. He did an amazing, amazing project that I think you would have seen. \[15:37\] And everyone probably would have assumed at the time it was Red Bull doing the project, but it wasn't, it was Audi. Yeah. And he went around the globe literally skiing everything that wasn't snow. So he skied down grass, he skied down volcanoes, he skied across wave pools. Okay. As far as creative content, this guy to me is next level. He's done it creatively, but he started as the best in the world at skiing, free skiing. \[16:09\] Yep. That's number two. And anytime he drops anything, I'm just... And then number three, it's an interesting one, my third one: Jimmy Chin. Again, I've never heard of him. He was the director of Free Solo, with Alex Honnold. But what's interesting about him is he probably was never necessarily the elite of the elite of climbers, but he can climb with anyone, and that's why he's been able to do his documentaries. \[16:40\] But he's always had the trust and the credibility with the elite of the elite, hence why he was trusted to do Free Solo. So he's always had his camera, his films and everything else, but he's been in the inner circle because he's had the trust of the athletes, because of what he can do physically himself. So the common denominator... and Jimmy's now 52, so you can see one from each decade... but all of them, for me, have surpassed what they've done in sport by actually creating this whole new world for themselves \[17:14\] outside of it that I'm just intrigued by. Isn't it interesting that yours is very much leaning that way? It's definitely not like you. Like when you said Tiger, I'm like, I'm interested in that story, but there's no intrigue there, because everyone's told those stories over and over and over. I don't think the Tiger story's been told, because of his privacy. He's keeping that... It's been reported. I want the first-hand account. \[17:46\] Yeah. And I'm thinking more and more about this. Someone else, and again, mine have less mystery around them necessarily: I'd love to sit down and have a conversation with Michael Johnson. I've always found Michael Johnson the runner to be an incredibly engaging, charismatic athlete, and I would love to sit down and have a conversation with him. I'm just thinking, you've got a bit of an eighties, nineties hero skew. \[18:16\] So when you were a kid, you're following the ones you grew up with and saw. It is. But even... I mean, I thought the David Beckham documentary on Netflix was not a documentary, it was an infomercial, a propaganda piece for the Beckham family. But I would love to sit down and have a conversation with David Beckham. Yeah. Because that Galacticos Real Madrid team that he played on, and then everything he went through at Manchester United, they showed bits of it. Yeah. But again, I'd love to be able to have an off-the-record, no-holds-barred \[18:51\] conversation, where he's not worried about any of it being repeated, to understand what life was like being David Beckham and dating a Spice Girl. Yeah. So mine does skew very... Yeah, well, everyone's gonna be different. If you're sitting there listening to us, you're probably like... And yet I've got no interest in talking to Tom Brady. I just don't... Tiger versus Tom, what's the difference? Well, Tiger's got some demons. Tiger's got demons that he's trying to hide, and I feel like Tom is just, eh. \[19:26\] Yeah. Anyway, let us know what you reckon. Hey, talking about creativity with those three I mentioned: it's no secret, those who follow us along on socials would have noticed we're busy sometimes, and we're going a little bit sporadic. We promise you we bring an episode every week, and the audience who listen to us every week are very... Locked in. Patriotic towards the episode, which we love. \[19:57\] Thank you. But if there's any younger guys, younger girls who listen to us, who just love their socials, great on camera, getting into it, but also runners, DM us. We might have something for you. If you know how to edit, if you know how to work the socials, hit us up in the DMs. Love to have a chat. Yep. See if there's something we can do with you moving forward. Can we jump straight into a bit of sport, please? Let's go away from running for a moment. \[20:30\] Yep. Because I do want to get... maybe it's a new segment, I don't know yet: Athlete Attitude. I want to hear your attitude towards a couple of stories as a former elite athlete, as a current athlete. Firstly, tomorrow, Grand Final: the Lachie Neale decision, being allowed to play, having the ban overturned. What is your opinion? Take my Queensland bias out of it. I think it's all right. I mean, \[21:02\] my gut feeling is I think sport in general is just over-politicised, bureaucratic now. Right? Everything. There's a rule on a rule on a rule. And I get the safety elements of everything, but sometimes sport just needs to be played. People just need to stay out. I'm not gonna go into the weeds on this. I've had my conversation. I also agree, I like the idea that having a clean record means something. \[21:33\] Let's leave it there, because I agree with you. Next question: I just want to touch on the world of rugby league for a moment. Locally here on the Gold Coast, Zane Harrison, young gun, made his debut this year, local Tweed lad, plays for the Tweed Seagulls, plays in that number seven position, which is so important in the world of rugby league, deemed the future of the Gold Coast Titans. It's what they've been searching for, if he can fulfil his potential. There's now conversations about the Papua New Guinea Chiefs \[22:03\] being interested in him. Yeah, right. I think Zane's twenty, twenty-one maybe, and he's played eleven games of first grade. The reports are, and I can only take it on reporting, that the Titans are looking to sign him on a deal that would pay him six hundred grand a year. Now I don't know about you. I wasn't on that much money then, I'm not on that much money now, and at no point in my life have I ever been on that much money. Trust me, triathlon did not pay that. Hey, before you jump into that, I saw two young fellas on the Coast, I just can't think of their names, talking on a podcast about how \[22:38\] Hayden Wilde has had a great run, obviously, over the last three weeks. And I think they said, and I don't know how true this is, by the way, this is hearsay and second-hand, but he'd won 250 grand or something in three weeks, and that was a great prize money run. And to give you the idea, in triathlon, in sports like that, that's like a record. It's a newsworthy prize money run, and he's still 350 grand short of what this twenty-year-old from the Tweed is being offered. Conversation has now turned to the PNG Chiefs, who are reportedly interested in Zane as their secondary option if they can't get Nathan Cleary, with, again, reports of nine hundred \[23:17\] thousand being made available to him, which is tax free in PNG. Money aside, athlete attitude towards loyalty before you've proven yourself. Loyalty to teams, sponsors, whatever it might be that gave you an opportunity. That's what I'm asking. My question back would be... I question and I wonder these days, because I had this come up the other day, \[23:53\] in the world of sports business, does loyalty actually exist? That's always the rebuttal, right? Would the club be loyal to Zane right now if he'd had a bad year? Let's leave it there. There's my answer. I don't have an answer, and I'm not sure where I land on it. But I had this conversation the other day: sport is business. And if you actually flip it, do they have the same loyalty that the player expects? \[24:25\] Does the club give that same loyalty if shit's going belly up? Good. It's a good question. Think about this as you're running along, wherever you might be. Let's talk some running. Let's talk a little bit of running. Can I throw a hypothetical at you? Not a hypothetical, a real-life situation. I was going for a run with friend of the pod Mick Kelly the other day, who is currently... when he spoke to us, Tahoe was locked in. There's a chance that his plans might be changing, but we'll let Mick figure that out before we say anything here. \[25:00\] He was talking about it from an ultras perspective. These ultra races where you see people, the contenders that might not be a chance of winning, pull out of the races. They say, I'm not... you know, halfway through... Yeah, I get where you're going, yes. The Sydney Marathon and the major marathons are so popular now. We saw at one point however many million people submit for the London Marathon ballot, and only a hundred thousand get to run it, or whatever. \[25:33\] Yep. Should there be a punishment or a penalty for DNFers, given the popularity? Yeah. Well, let's talk it out in both... actually, let's not. Elite field, I don't have a problem with it. Yeah, I'm talking more about the general everyday jogger field. Let me walk you through the reasoning I was working through in my head as we were running, while you form an opinion on this. \[26:05\] If you sign up to one of these races, knowing what's involved, and take one of these exclusive spots, because they are exclusive now, the popularity of these races is such that if you take a spot, for your entry alone there's probably 50 people behind you that didn't get one. Yep. And you DNF. Should you then, the following year, if you go back, should your entry be more expensive? \[26:39\] Or should you have to serve a twelve-month suspension for DNFing the race? It is what it is. It is what it is. Yeah, just like that. It is what it is. Such is life. It is AFL Grand Final week when you're coming out with those quotes. I don't think so. I mean, for those in it for the right reasons... and that's why I asked you elite versus just doing it, because I think most people who are just doing it, they're only gonna pull \[27:17\] out if they really can't do it. The goal for the majority of people running a marathon is to finish it, right? So if they can't just walk through and finish it, there's probably a bigger reason than that. And I'm like, okay, fair. Health and safety. It's interesting, because I had this hypothetical conversation with some race organisers, and I won't name the race, but they were very quick to say, no, you cannot institute some sort of punishment or penalty for DNFing, because immediately it raises health concerns. I get that. We're having a fun conversation here. \[27:48\] In any other sport, if someone threw up their hand... imagine if tomorrow the Dockers are getting belted at half time and they just went, you know what? We're not coming out for the second half. Or look at how much grief we've given Nick Kyrgios on occasions where he's seemingly given up. Right? Yeah. I would like to see, bear with me... If you DNF a major marathon and you are unable to provide a doctor's certificate... \[28:25\] You want the doctor's certificate? I don't want to suspend you from being able to apply for the following year's race. I think there should be a 25 percent surcharge on your entry fee. I disagree. 25 percent. A 25 percent surcharge on your entry fee to that race again, and you get that money back when you finish. When you finish? You want to incentivise people. I'm working this policy out on the fly. \[28:56\] A 25 percent surcharge for DNFers on your entry fee, which is then refunded in full when you finish. That's my policy. If you DNF any race, okay, fine. But if you wish to enter that race again next year... this is for any race. This should be a universal policy on all races, all events. DNF equals a 25 percent surcharge on your entry fee if you choose to enter that race again. \[29:29\] That 25 percent surcharge is then refunded upon successful completion of your race. My head's spinning. Why? 'Cause you lost me a little bit there. No, no, no, let me explain it to you, because there will be people running along who don't understand either. Let's use the Nike Melbourne Marathon as a perfect example. Okay. Courtney, you've entered the Nike Melbourne Marathon, the half marathon race. I don't know what the fee is to actually enter the Nike Melbourne half marathon. Let's say hypothetically, for lack of a better number, it's $180. \[30:00\] Yep. Right? $180\. Courtney Atkinson DNFs. Bonks at 15K. Yep. Very unlikely. Very un-Courtney-like. But you pull out, okay? That's fine. Next year, if you would like to race the Melbourne half marathon again, your $180 race entry costs you $225\. If you complete the race, we'll give you back that $45. \[30:33\] I just think there needs to be a level of accountability. Nobody loses in that scenario. If you finish, you get your money back. If you turn up and you're out there running, you started it, you're fine. I don't care what you do beyond that, 'cause the only one getting hurt's you then. No, but it's the people that missed the spot in the race, they're the ones I'm putting myself in the shoes of. 'Cause we know what happens at every single run: let's just say there's forty thousand tickets and all forty thousand were sold out. \[31:09\] Let's just, for argument's sake, say three thousand of those people don't turn up. Stop. Okay. They just don't show. Sure. City2Surf's a great example of this. Ninety thousand. Yes. There's a high ratio of people who just don't show up, 'cause they enter, go out on a bender the night before, more than likely, and don't wake up and don't show. That's a different story. So you think the do-not-starters should be... Yeah, just not rocking up without... I like the idea where if you can't start because of some reason, you can in advance somehow get that entry to someone \[31:47\] else to be able to use, 'cause that doesn't always happen. DNS, do not start, incurs a 50 percent fee. Do not finish incurs a 25 percent fee. With this policy in mind, I am putting myself in the shoes of everyone that misses out on an entry and wants to be there, and then has to watch as so-and-so doesn't start and yada yada doesn't finish. There needs to be a level of accountability for these runners. \[32:17\] And I think we implement this as a universal policy. How did this even start? Because you were running with Mick. I was running with Mick. You've lost me. You got here and you've lost me. I'm like, where did this conversation even start? Tell us what you think about my universal policy to financially penalise did-not-starters and did-not-finishers. I'm gonna guess that you're not gonna get much support. I don't think so. No. Did not start without a reason, maybe, 'cause that is annoying. \[32:47\] That's the thing: if you turn up, no one's out of pocket, as long as you do the right thing the next time you go. It's perfect. Okay, okay, okay. Perfect. Let's move on. What have we got? Do you want to get to the AFL? Okay. Simple question, come at me. Lions for you. Who wins? Lions. I'll tell you my full prediction right now: Lions win by five goals, Hugh McCluggage wins the Norm Smith Medal, and Logan Morris will kick the most goals in the game. \[33:17\] So why won't Morris get the Norm Smith? Because I think Hugh McCluggage will have thirty-five disposals and probably add a goal, and with the nature of the game, they'll be drawn to the midfield. Okay. When I say Logan Morris will kick the most goals, I think he'll maybe have three or four. I don't think you're gonna see a seven-goal, eight-goal game. Yeah. Do you have a two-week prediction on the NRL? NRL Grand Final, I think the NRL gets its dream final and sees the Panthers take on the Dolphins. \[33:48\] Well, you think the Dolphins can... Yeah, I think the Dolphins can, and ultimately I think the Panthers will win. Again. Again. And I think Penrith gets to plant a flag as the home of rugby league. It's got the biggest nursery, it's got the greatest nursery. I got told by somebody yesterday that Nathan Hindmarsh's son is coming through the grades in Penrith right now. What a dagger to the heart of Nathan, the Eels legend, to see his young fella wearing the Panthers uniform. \[34:19\] They're doing something right. Yeah, they are doing something right. That's my predictions, and I'm hoping this weekend as well that we see the Gold Coast Titans women's team knock off the Broncos and get back to the grand final, probably against the Roosters again. Is it wrong that I support the Broncos and I'm a Gold Coaster? No. I mean, it's not wrong. I don't like it, but yeah. Anyway, let's talk a bit about running. Our running. Let's go. Have you been running? \[34:50\] You've obviously been running with Mick. I went out for a little run with Mick. I had a little run around with Whippet the other day. I was actually in Byron Bay last weekend, and everybody goes, when you're in Byron, if anybody's been around Byron, let's do the lighthouse run. The lighthouse run is hard. That is a hard uphill. I went out and had a few beers on the Thursday night after the golf, and we did our show from there on the Friday. And then, as a little bit of punishment for the beers and the food at the pub, I \[35:20\] did three up and backs from Watego's to the lighthouse. Yep. And then if you continue running south from the lighthouse, there's a little trail that sort of connects down towards... I've done a lot around the area. I basically found myself, for the first time since the Milo, running a trail. Yeah, it's the first time I've been back on a trail since the Milo. Okay. And I was feeling my quads, going, now I remember what this is. But it was great, and it did make me go, let's get back out on some trails. \[35:53\] Okay. So I'm hanging to get on trails again. How's your running going? Well, like I said at the top of the show... what's gonna be interesting is, prior to Gold Coast Marathon, I was averaging fifty K a week off a zero base. Yep. But when I was doing the running, because I was only running every second day, even my easy runs, or the secondary runs, were at a reasonable pace. \[36:26\] Not flat out or anything, but I was just always tapping along. What's changed in this build is I'm not running every second day, I'm running more often than that, and I'm getting up around eighty, ninety K weeks, but I'm doing a lot more at a lower intensity. So it'll be interesting to see where I land at the end of it all, because I'm like, well, if I don't go any better and I'm doing all this extra running at a lower intensity, maybe I just run every second day and get on it a bit more, because I can't do the volume I'm wanting to do \[37:00\] and run that intensity as well. Okay. So in theory I should be able to run a lot quicker. I'm doing more mileage, I'm doing more running, I'm coming off a better base and everything else. But in the last few weeks I've actually had a bit of a thought: I'm jogging around all the time at five-minute K pace. How is this going to actually match up to... at least at the end of my marathon block before Gold Coast, I was doing a lot more of my running at a durable pace, something that would give me a bit more durability. \[37:33\] So that's a question I'm gonna be able to answer probably more in the next four weeks, and I'll be able to address it. But since Bridge to Brisbane, mate, I've jogged around at five-minute K pace, just jogged. 'Cause first of all, my legs were stuffed, or just sore. And then, like I said, I've just been a bit under the weather. But I was in Port Douglas all of last week. Can I ask you a quick question before you talk about Port Douglas? A little bit of a question without notice, so apologies to just throw this heavy one at you. Where are you at with your passion and attitude towards running? \[38:07\] Because... Yeah. Because I ask that knowing you've had the year you've had, with the pursuit of the marathon, and injuries last year, and keeping in mind who you were as a professional athlete, and then after triathlon, the endurance adventure races and trails and all the rest of that. Where do you sit, in your mindset towards your running right now? Yeah, a hundred percent. \[38:38\] Running is my... the question I wanted you to ask Kipchoge is exactly why I'm running every day. It's the structure I just enjoy having, and that's what the racing is at the moment, because I've been able to start racing again. Yeah. That structure, it's giving me something. If I wasn't racing in the next four weeks, I'd kind of be just running around without a purpose. The racing gives you a purpose. Yeah. And then you just gotta work back. And I think we might even have the audio later: there was something said on one of the podcasts around, with what you're able to do with time, work and everything else in your life, you've just got to \[39:17\] reassess your goals, right? So at the moment I've got some good goals I'm trying to work towards, but I'm also realistic that I can't spend all day rolling my arches, getting massages and being a full-time athlete. So it's finding the happy balance. Hearing you talk about how your legs are feeling and all the rest of that, and knowing you've just done Bridge to Brisbane and you've got Melbourne coming up... So the one thing that I'm looking forward to, and I've managed so far, is I just want to be able to go and do running things without worrying about injury. \[39:50\] So that's what I'm working towards. It doesn't matter whether it's marathoning or whatever it is, I want to be able to go... someone says to me, let's go and run Shipstern's. Okay, let's do it. Yeah. Go. Bang. Done. I don't have to worry about this is sore or that's sore. And the reality of running is you need a base to be able to just go out and do that. I'm trying to build back to that as well, because Mick, again, to reference him, sent a message to both of us saying, who wants to go for a \[40:21\] 25K spin around Nerang or wherever, and I don't think I've got that in me yet at the moment. I'm trying to build back to it. So if you went and did that, you're likely to get injured. Yeah, likely to get injured, and not likely to enjoy it, and I don't want to ruin someone else's run. But I feel like I'm working back towards that at the moment. But you gotta have something... The goal is the key, right? Yeah, you have to have something good going. But obviously I was up there... I actually did a lot of running with Justin, who we had in here for our... \[40:52\] Remember? Yeah, our Noosa... So we did a lot of runs up on Four Mile Beach. Yeah. Just up and back, and just jogged around. There's not much running around Port Douglas, but thankfully it was actually quite cool conditions, 'cause normally you rock up there and you're just absolutely belted. Smacked. But it was actually reasonably good up there. Okay. Nice one. Now, there's something on here that you've told me not to read. Yes. Jake Bart has shared it. Jake Bart shared this with us. Now, I wasn't keen on this. \[41:23\] You mentioned a world record the other week. Cricket. Yep. Breaking the world record for the longest run-up for a cricket delivery. I wasn't a fan. Okay. But I've got one for you. Okay. A new Guinness World Record may have been set at the Worcester City Half Marathon. Steve Cram, a silver medallist in the 1500 at the 1984 Games, set the local radio station the challenge of running the fastest half marathon while \[41:56\] presenting a live radio show. Here is the world record, Liam, for you. Yeah, this is the world record you're after. What time do you think you need to achieve to break this? In the Guinness Book of World Records? Yeah. The fastest live radio show while running a half marathon. What do I think the record is? \[42:27\] Yeah, I've got to find the record. I think the record would be an hour... I think the record would be an hour forty-five. Two hours twenty. I'll beat that tomorrow. I'm not on air tomorrow. I'll beat that Monday. That is your record. It's made for you, Liam. What does that work out to per K? \[42:58\] The current record holder, he's an executive producer, so he's not even a presenter. I was gonna say, if he's the executive producer, that's not presenting a live radio show. Well, he did. Tim Boswell. And Guinness World Records said the attempt is going through the evidence review process at this moment. Liam, this is... Hold on, hold on, I've just opened the link now. Executive producer Boswell had to carry his own broadcasting kit around the course, and also a large mounted flag on his back. So he had to carry the broadcast equipment, which, to pull back the curtain a little bit, you can actually do with not much these days. \[43:33\] Look at the picture. He's doing it in a running vest still. The broadcast equipment's in a running vest. Okay. So it'd be one of those little TPU... what do we call them... Okay. Yeah, I'm not getting a lot of... No, I can do this. I can absolutely do this. I'll do this, if you take me down to Melbourne, and I'll strap the thing on. But I guess you've got to be talking, you've gotta be live, you've gotta be running. \[44:04\] Playing... Yeah, he wouldn't be talking for two hours and twenty minutes. It's on the BBC, he might have. Okay, I'm gonna look into this, 'cause I am happy to take on this challenge. Good call, Jake. I'm with you on this one. Jake, good suggestion. Yeah, I'm in for that. That sounds good. Okay. All right. And keeping with our listeners who've got good ideas, here's one for ya. Have a listen to this. \[44:35\] Hey fellas. Great little pod there about Sydney, and first of all, I'd like to say, a hundred percent cotton t-shirts. Look, it's not about how fast you go, it's about how big your smile is when enduring some serious suffering. I've got someone you should watch: Desmond. Goes sub-thirty for 10K. Local runner from Upper Coomera, absolute top bloke, just grinds every week, not professional, has a job, humble. But I think we could see him in 2032 in the Olympic marathon. \[45:08\] Desmond. I've trained with him for about four years, done the Kokoda Challenge with him twice. So, thinking about Dezi, what if you guys did a segment called Local Spotlight or, I don't know, that's just fucking random, but shine the light on a local fella, lady, amateur athlete that's doing really well and goes unnoticed. There's so many people out there who are just grinding away on their own every day, trying to achieve just as much, if not more. They're not professional, they're just amateurs, working a job on the side and doing the best with what they have. \[45:39\] They deserve a shout-out just as much as the bloke that's the professional athlete. So just a thought. What about a segment? Once a podcast. Some people deserve recognition and they're not getting it. That's all I gotta say. Love your show. Later, fellas. What do you reckon? Names you should know. The onus isn't on us here. Anyone listening, if this is gonna work, we need submissions. All right. So we can do it, but we need the right... Here's what I'd say. Let me pivot too. \[46:10\] 'Cause I think there's an opportunity. So basically this is a local spotlight on athletes as well: under-the-radar amateurs who are full-time, doing great things. Yep. Yeah. Send them in. Let's give it a crack. If you know of an athlete that's grinding away and deserves a bit of spotlight... We've talked about it. Look, Andy Buchanan summed it up beautifully: athletes these days need to work harder to make their stories and their narratives more known. \[46:43\] We can help. If you've got someone that's grinding away and is trying to crack it, trying to make running their full-time thing, or is just getting it done, and you think they deserve a shout-out... Dezi's quick, actually. Hold on, I'm seeing his PBs. He's a 14:23 on the track. Yeah, that's not slow. His 10K road time is thirty-something. Young fella. \[47:16\] Goes good. Shout-out Dezi. Keep an eye out. Have I told you my St Lucia story, by the way? I've just noticed that he competes at UQ up in St Lucia, Brisbane. Have I ever told you this story? Very quickly. When I first moved up here from Sydney and was hosting the afternoon show in Brisbane with Liesel and Dobbo, I went out to host an event in Ipswich, and the mayor of Ipswich is Teresa Harding. Now, I was doing this event with Teresa. At the time I didn't know Brisbane very well as a city. \[47:49\] I did not know that there was a suburb in Brisbane called St Lucia. But I do know that there is a country in the Caribbean called St Lucia. And I met Teresa Harding, the mayor of Ipswich, and we were just having a bit of small talk before we got underway, a bit of a chat. And she said, my daughter's actually just started university. And I said, where's she at uni? She said, St Lucia. So in my mind, she's just told me that her daughter is attending university in a small Caribbean island nation. \[48:21\] And I reacted as such. I went, what? In my mind, again, she's going to uni in the Caribbean. It must be for some exotic marine biology type degree. What's she doing at uni in St Lucia? Teresa said she's doing an arts degree. And I was like, seems a long way to go for an arts degree. Anyway, I'm still reacting like she's told me her daughter's going to university in the Caribbean. My god, that's incredible. That's amazing. She must be thinking, geez, this guy is really keen to please. \[48:55\] I'm like, that's amazing. Oh, do you get to see her very much? She's like, yeah, I saw her on the weekend. I'm like, you were in St Lucia on the weekend? Wow. Anyway, did the event, walked over to Alana, my wife, who was there, who's from the Gold Coast, and I said, the mayor's daughter goes to uni in St Lucia. Alana's like, yeah, it's like 35 minutes down the road. Anyway. I never went to uni at St Lucia, but I did a lot of running around there. \[49:25\] That's where... in Brisbane, not the Caribbean. Never been to the Caribbean one. But we ran with Pat Clohessy's group for years. Anyone who's been to uni there knows the trail that goes around the water. Good. Once I learnt where St Lucia was, I would run from the radio station at the top of Caxton Street, down around the river, and find myself down there. It's a great place. Yeah, good memories around there. \[49:56\] A couple I wanna read out. Yeah, go. A couple of messages that are really nice this week. The first one is from our security friend Gnomes. Shout-out Gnomes. I won't read the whole message, but just congrats: a year back since the cancer. Oh. Ran with their fourteen-year-old daughter at Bridge to Brisbane. Out there running. So good. Well done, Gnomes. Congrats. Big love. That's brilliant. \[50:26\] And this is another one. We talked earlier on, again, just a shout-out if any young crew who are on their socials want to jump on and DM us for some help. But this is a really nice message that makes this all worthwhile, and I won't say who it's from, 'cause it's no one's business besides ours. Hi guys, this is a bit of a random one, but just wanted to say thank you. A couple of weeks ago I unexpectedly lost my mum. I'm training for my first marathon in November. Since losing her, I've really struggled to get back out there. \[50:57\] While planning the funeral, I was watching your episode with Benita Willis. Mum was from Mackay, and we've taken her back there to lay her to rest. Hearing Benita talk about running cross country in the cane fields reminded me of Mum's stories about running barefoot through the cane fields. Ah, that's awesome. So yeah, loved hearing it. Mum loved running, I love my training and everything else, and this episode found me exactly at the right time, so thank you. That gives me the warm and fuzzies. Hey, can we talk Brisbane Olympics just for a moment? \[51:32\] Because something I've just remembered. Have you seen this? No. Were you gonna tell me something about the Brisbane Olympics? About the run, the Brisbane Marathon. So Jared Smith shared with us a post that they've made the Brisbane Marathon into a one-lap course. A one-lap... Is this pre-emptive, getting a course ready for the Games? Let's have a look at it. I saw that they announced it. I'm still adamant the Olympic marathon's gonna be on the Sunshine Coast. \[52:03\] Well, it shouldn't be, but that's where I'm still leaning, that it will be. Well, let's stop it. With the momentum of this podcast, Courtney, and your influence in particular, let's start a word-of-mouth whisper campaign: it has to be in Brisbane. Mike... I think Mike Shelley's got a lot more sway than I do. Mike Shelley sat here, convinced me and turned me into an absolute disciple that the marathon for the Brisbane Olympic Games needs to be run in Brisbane. \[52:36\] It has to finish... I have been regurgitating Mike's mantra to everybody when we talk about the Olympics, because I could not agree with him more. It's a free event that should highlight and showcase the host city, not a satellite city, of this Olympic Games. And it has to finish at this incredible new stadium that they're planning on building. It has to. Now, Mike Shelley said he can draw them up a course tomorrow. Let's have a look at this Brisbane Marathon course. Where are you looking? Did I put a link in, or no? \[53:07\] I'll let you explain it, and see if I can follow along. I'll find the course, actually. If I go to the marathon site, how do I find the course, Courtney? Yeah, I'm still looking. You know what I have done that's been exciting the last few weeks? Talking about shoes, which we always love, I've got to sit in on a few Nike innovation sessions. What? Prior to some of the stuff coming out. \[53:38\] By now you people would have seen the Alphafly 4s drop. And obviously, technology... I saw Adidas also dropped a new shoe, so there's a lot of new shoes coming out at the moment. Listening to the product innovation expert on it, one of the more interesting things that came out of it for me was that one of the biggest things the athletes were asking \[54:09\] for was to quieten the shoes down. They didn't want them as loud. Because when they're running up behind someone, you could hear versions one, two and three of the Alphaflys coming. So specifically, with the new... what is it called? The new Air Zoom pod in the front, not only have they lightened it and made it more responsive, but they've actually solved the issue around the sound. So if you get your hands on a pair, \[54:40\] or when you start seeing them turn up at the marathon races, what you're gonna find is you're not gonna hear that noise anymore. Well done. Thank goodness. Because I think we compared the noise of them to, like, at the Noosa Tri, when you hear the big aero wheel coming up behind you. It's a complaint, and they've listened and they've done it. I mean, I haven't heard them in real life yet, but when they're talking about all the innovation around it, one is the performance of that Air Zoom pod: like I said, lighter, more responsive, everything else. \[55:16\] So it's gonna be a faster shoe, but at the same time it's gonna be a quieter shoe. Love it. Sticking with Nike for a moment: Keely Hodgkinson. Did you see the outfit? Yeah, what do you think? I like it, for a bit of marketing. Did you watch much of this event, Athlos? No. So it was the debut event that happened in London a couple of weeks back. \[55:49\] It's an all-women's professional track and field meeting, and I think it's got massive, massive legs. Massive potential. It felt niche and broad at the same time. Entertainment, though. I think women... and we see this a bit in football here... I think women do fashion better than men. And in the sporting realm as well, I think the female athletes are far more comfortable expressing themselves from a fashion perspective than the male athletes \[56:29\] are. There are some male athletes that enjoy it as well. And everything I saw, it kept it small enough by just being the women racing. It kept it small enough that it was manageable and watchable and digestible, but with all the glamour and fashion and glitz that the female athletes brought to the race. And then when Keely goes out wearing what she did, I think it's got real legs. And it was interesting, I think it's Alexis Ohanian. I think he's Serena Williams' husband. Okay. He was the Reddit founder. He's worth a bundle. \[56:59\] But I saw a clip, and I'm paraphrasing... For Snapchat? No, Reddit. No, Snapchat is Miranda Kerr's. True. Yep. He made a quote, because I think he was asked about why female-only and why athletics and all the rest of that, and it was something along the lines of: basically, if Keely Hodgkinson was in any other sport around the world, she'd be a household name. But athletics, for whatever reason, hasn't been able to make these women household names like they do in tennis or golf or whatever it is. \[57:31\] And I just think it's really interesting that someone of his level of influence and wealth is taking it upon himself to create something to champion the female track athlete. I didn't get to see the whole thing, but what I loved about what came out around the suit was the feeling and nostalgia. Yes. Tying back to that Cathy Freeman era. I mean, I'm surprised it hasn't happened again sooner. Okay. \[58:04\] Yes. The course. I've had a look at it. Too many turns. Too many ninety-degree turns. For us Queenslanders, give us a general rundown of where it goes. Basically, to read it: the new course will cross three bridges, including the iconic Story Bridge, while opening up new parts of Brisbane, from South Bank and Coronation Drive to the stunning waterfront stretch along Kingsford Smith Drive. Kingsford Smith, is that out towards the airport, where Bridge to Brisbane was? So you get a bit of that. You run past the racecourse. \[58:34\] Good course to run out there. There's a lot of kind of hairpin sections, where you run out to a point and then it's a U-turn back, you have these little... Not too bad. I don't mind that; if there's two to three of them, I don't mind it. Okay. If there's more than that, then you start to get it. But the good thing is, if it's like Kingsford Smith Drive, for example, if it's a hairpin out the back of that, it's such a good road to run out, flat. Well, it is, it's just straight out and back, flat. Do they go right out to the port or something? \[59:07\] And then it's got you finishing in, what is that, the Botanic Gardens there. Yeah, you finish in the Botanic Gardens. So you start over towards... Why wouldn't they finish it at South Bank? Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Yeah, look, I'd love to ask Mike how that course relates to the course he had dreamed up in his head. So with this course, you start near the Turbot Street turn-off, you head over towards South Bank, and then you cross over towards Suncorp Stadium and you run down, and \[59:41\] then you turn back around and come back over those same bridges that you've crossed already. Yeah. Past the Botanic Gardens, up along Queen Street and the wharf around there, then you cross over the Story Bridge towards Kangaroo Point, back towards Woolloongabba, then you turn around and come back over the Story Bridge again before you head out that way. It's a lot of shutting down the city. A lot of turning around. I don't know. \[60:11\] No. To go back to the Brisbane Olympics, yeah, because a lot of conversation in the last week or so has been around Rockhampton and the rowing. The crocs. It's hilarious, you gotta love government. Crisafulli comes out, when the world governing bodies were complaining, and he's like, no, that's just elitism from interstate athletes and federations that don't appreciate regional Queensland. Says we're not changing, this is what we're doing, it's locked in, it's been approved, done. And now the Federal Sports Minister has come out and said, no, not approved. \[60:43\] But it's just like, sometimes government just gets involved for the sake of getting involved. That's not what I want to talk about. What I want to talk about, though, is the whitewater rafting. Redland Bay? I think it's Redlands, right? Because that has been a much-discussed venue. Yeah. And about whether the money is worth the investment for a sport that is incredibly niche, when there's this world-class facility already down in Sydney, in Penrith. \[61:15\] I was lucky enough to host a sports lunch yesterday with Southern Cross University and Sports Gold Coast. Incredible room, incredible people. One woman in particular, her name's Monica Bradley. She's a capital investment fund founder. I walked out of that room thinking she is one of the most impressive people I've heard speak. Her understanding of how money works in sport is like nothing I've ever seen before. And she brought up the Redlands whitewater venue. \[61:48\] She said the business case for this is better than any other Olympic venue. The business case, the legacy, the money that will be spent and the impact that it will have means it is an absolute two thumbs up. And look, I can't remember everything she went on to say, but she did reference the fact that this will become a training hub for the SES. Yes. It'll provide training to a host of organisations from that perspective, as well as obviously being the training facility for the sports that it \[62:24\] was designed for in the first place. Yeah. But it was really interesting. In Sydney they use it for... because we've gone there before and used it, whitewater rafting, and they go down. I have no idea, and obviously they have a lot more information and are a lot smarter than I am, but they're not cheap to run. Well, the maintenance, the ongoing maintenance. If you can provide it like a theme park, ongoing, that makes sense to me. Look, I'm not gonna expand on her, because I don't remember, and there's no way I would... \[62:58\] But we don't know the numbers or anything. The way she was talking about money in the world of sport, yep, and the fact that she sat there in this room full of heavy hitters in the world of sport on the Gold Coast and gave that project two thumbs up, I was like, wow. Okay. Fascinating. It sounds like we'll see white... fascinator... what is it? Well, the kayaking, the K1 and the... No. Yeah, but whitewater... Rapid. Rapids. \[63:29\] See some rapids in Redland Bay. Yeah. And whether we see rowing in Rockhampton is apparently still up in the air. What do you reckon? Do you know what I wish? You know what I'd love, David Crisafulli? Ultimately I don't really care. I don't mind it, right? Yeah. But I just wish that the government would come out and say, this is a political move. Rockhampton's a marginal seat. We want to give them something so that when the next election rolls around, they vote for our member again. \[64:00\] That's fine, and I'd be fine with that. I'd be so fine with that. Because it's this unspoken thing. Yeah. And I feel like if it got spoken, then everyone would go, ah, well, let's stop arguing, because it's just a political thing. Yeah. Because at the moment we're arguing about the merits of this place as a venue. You just threw that at me and you stumped me a little bit, 'cause I was gonna jump in earlier. I heard him speaking at an energy conference yesterday. I wasn't physically in the room; I watched the energy conference down in Sydney \[64:33\] and I was so impressed. Yeah, absolutely. I was incredibly... Well, not necessarily the speaking, but just the content, and what his ambitions for Queensland are. Yeah. And I was like, on the money. Couldn't agree more. But now, as soon as you talk about political manoeuvring, I'm like, same old, you know. This is, again, not a political podcast, this is a running podcast. But it's both sides of politics. \[65:03\] It's every side of politics. I just feel like if every side of politics was a little bit more candid with the Australian people, there'd be so... And again, if Australian people just kind of went, hey, we elected them to do the job, how about we let them do the job without criticising every single little thing and every flight they take? I don't need people whinging because David Crisafulli took a jet to go and visit regional Queensland. It's his job. He's the Premier. Don't worry about it. He needs to get on a plane to get to these places, and it's not realistic to expect him to fly Jetstar. \[65:36\] Okay. Everybody needs to calm the farm just a little bit. Anyway, how did we end up here? I blame you. Let's talk more about Nike and the Melbourne. All right. All right.