> ## Content Index > Fetch the complete content index at: https://www.inthebeginningpodcast.com/llms.txt > Use this file to discover other available public pages before exploring further. # Too Fat To Run To Pro Triathlete: Adzy Gordon | EP 104 - URL: https://www.inthebeginningpodcast.com/ep-104-in-the-beginning-podcast/ - Published: 2026-09-11T18:00:00.000Z - Updated: 2026-09-12T00:53:39.000Z - Description: The bloke who was told he'd never be a runner on run clubs, training vs exercising, and the 97kg leg press behind every heavy brake in a Supercar. - Author: Courtney Atkinson - Tags: Episodes, Main Feed, Running Training, Marathon Training, Australian Running, Triathlon, Running Shoes, Sports Science, #Adzy Gordon *Adzy Gordon's maths teacher told his parents he'd never be a runner.* Go and search his name alongside the words 'too fat to run' and an old Bulletin article still comes up — he tells you to go and do it himself. Adam 'Adzy' Gordon went on to race as a professional triathlete, and now runs one of the Gold Coast's best-known run groups out of Main Beach, works with Supercars drivers on fitness, and is an ASICS and Gold Coast Marathon ambassador. With Courtney away, Liam sits down with him on why run clubs are the new bowls club, the difference between exercising and training, why he never runs with headphones, and what the marathon start line at Brisbane 2032 is going to ask for. The thread running through all of it is the line Adzy gives every first-timer who turns up at Main Beach: none of us are going to the Olympics. Run easy, moderate or mad, he doesn't care. Just don't walk away thinking the only version of this that counts is the fast one. ## In this episode - How Adzy's Athletes started from a mate's run group 12 to 15 years ago, and what he tells first-timers: run easy, moderate or mad, none of us are going to the Olympics - Run clubs as the new bowls club — somewhere to belong, not somewhere to perform - Told he was too fat to run: the dairy on the corner, golf, hockey, and the maths teacher who wrote him off - A2D (attention to detail), and the line between exercising and training - Stress load is not training load — it's life load plus training load, and the lifestyle maths of a 12-week block - Why he never runs with headphones, and what Strava and socials cost you - Liam's take: parkrun is the greatest invention of the last 25 years - Australian running culture, and whether our variety of sport stops us becoming a running nation - Nedd Brockmann, Sabastian Sawe's 1:59:30, and what Brisbane 2032 will take - Supercars fitness: a heavy brake is about a 97kg single-leg leg press, in the heat, days in a row - Getting kids into running without making exercise the price you pay - Super shoes, the $10,000 bike, trails, and the little warning signs your body gives you ## Timestamps - **0:00** — Adzy Gordon & Adzy's Athletes - **2:33** — Run clubs: the new bowls club - **6:37** — Too fat to run - **11:15** — Golf, A2D & exercising vs training - **14:24** — Life load, Strava & no headphones - **20:20** — Is parkrun the greatest invention? - **25:23** — What is Australian running culture? - **31:21** — Biggest marathon mistakes & lifestyle maths - **36:02** — The Brisbane 2032 marathon debate - **44:27** — 97kg per brake: Supercars fitness - **48:48** — Getting kids into running - **54:13** — Super shoes, trails & warning signs ## Listen ## Related In The Beginning episodes - [Sydney Marathon Vs UTMB: Who Actually Won The Weekend | EP 103](https://www.inthebeginningpodcast.com/ep-103-in-the-beginning-podcast/) - [Benita Willis's Half Marathon Countdown: Sessions, Super Shoes & Chasing A World-Class Field](https://www.inthebeginningpodcast.com/benita-willis-half-marathon-focus-gold-coast-marathon-series-2026/) - [Gold Coast Marathon Series 2026: We're Back](https://www.inthebeginningpodcast.com/gold-coast-marathon-series-2026-were-back/) Related reading: [The First Man Under Two Hours Is Out Of Berlin](https://www.inthebeginningpodcast.com/sabastian-sawe-out-of-berlin-marathon-2026/) — the man whose 1:59:30 Liam and Adzy argue about in this episode is out of the Berlin Marathon with a stress fracture, which makes Adzy's closing point about little warning signs land a bit harder. ## Full transcript *Auto-generated transcript, lightly edited for clarity.* Read the full transcript \[00:00\] In the beginning, episode 104\. Courtney Atkinson, not available this week. The man with all the ambassadorships and all the rest of that, the adventures, is away this week. But we can't let you go without giving you an episode for your Saturday or Sunday longies, whatever you've got going on. So I have roped in a man who I consider to be one of the great men of running, not just here on the Gold Coast where we live, but around Australia. I met him when I moved up to the Gold Coast just under five years ago. \[00:33\] I was put onto his running group by a friend. I'm now very proud to get to call him a friend, a man who's taught me a lot about running, and some of you may know him. Adzy Gordon, how are you? Oh well, that's quite the intro. Before we get into everything, we met almost five years ago. Mutual friend, friend of the podcast, Reedy. I'd moved up to the Gold Coast and I said I was looking for a running group, and he said you need to go and run with Adzy's crew out of Main Beach. \[01:04\] You do Saturday mornings and Wednesday mornings. It's been a while since I've run with you, but tell me, can you give us the backstory about how that running group that you now run came about? When did it start? Give us the backstory to your running group. Well, if I go back probably twelve, fifteen years ago, a good friend of ours, Mark Turner, who unfortunately isn't here anymore, had started this run group up with a local crew, and he's like, hey Adzy, you know a little bit about it, would you like to take it over? I'm unable to do it, I'm shifting. \[01:35\] I was like, yeah, sure. So I'd head down every morning at, you know, 5:30 on the Wednesday morning and rally the troops. We started with a couple of people and we'd turn up each week and present a class or a program, and I'd love it. And then week by week, you know, like all things, if we just stick at it, the water feeds the plants and the plants grow, and here we are ten, fifteen years later, and our own group is a community now, which is a lot further on from probably \[02:05\] What it is now in the running community, to the depths of it being a bit more organic. So I want to get into, for people that don't know Adzy and his story - we've got a whole history of you being an elite athlete yourself and having done amazing stuff, we're going to get to all that - I want to stick on run stuff, run groups, right now. Because I reckon when I came and joined your run group, the run club boom was kind of just kicking off. What do you think about run clubs? \[02:35\] As someone who's been around, you know, it's kind of like asking people who've been podcasting for twenty years what they think about podcasting now that everyone's got one. Everyone's got a run club now. What do you think of run clubs as they are here in 2026? Well, it's different for me because I'm in the health and fitness space. So therefore I see run groups as an opportunity for people to go and do something with other people with a bit of motivation. So I would use the reference like, you know, a bowls club's great for the older demographic. They have somewhere to go, it's interactive, it's fun. \[03:07\] Yeah. You know, an RSL, people get to go and do all those fun things that they get to do. Well, for me, as someone who works and lives and breathes health and fitness, I look at run clubs as being an avenue, or somewhere for someone to go that they can fit in and be somewhere with a bit of care and a bit of motivation. So for me run clubs are no different to the fitness industry. Yep. They're a place to go, and everybody should have somewhere that they can go if they want to move. Jeez, you're a nice bloke. \[03:37\] But it's a really nice way of thinking about it. Because I think with the popularity in running, with everything it's doing now, it is easy to become cynical. Particularly for someone like you, who was not here first in the run club space, but someone who has been in that run club space for a very long time, it would be very easy to be dismissive and cynical of the run clubs where it's about not wearing your shirts, or it's about the boom box, or it's about the flag, all that sort of stuff. \[04:08\] But the fact that you have that perspective of somewhere to belong. Yeah, it is, because if I look at the fitness industry, Les Mills, you know, you went to a pump class or a step class, back to those days, the eighties thing, which is quite big at the moment. It's definitely - if you just get out of your own little space and look at the world from the balcony, you'll soon realise that everybody wants to be somewhere and somebody just wants to fit in somewhere. Yeah. And whether you look at school programs or adult programs, there needs to be somewhere where everybody can go. \[04:41\] To feel included and just be able to do something for themselves. And running is economic, it's pretty time efficient. Yeah. You can chuck a pair of runners on. You don't need to pay for an app. You can literally just go, hey Flano, we're going to go run Main Beach for 5K tomorrow morning, and it's as organic as that. Yeah. And so, for a run club that's been around as long as yours has, Adzy's Athletes - you've got merch, you've got the drink bottles, you've got your singlets, people might have seen Adzy's Athletes competing in events. \[05:15\] What do you say to someone who turns up to your run club for the first time? Who maybe, like me five years ago - you were the only person I knew out there, and I had one word of mouth recommendation from a mutual friend. What do you say when people turn up to Adzy's Athletes for the first time? I just say you don't need to be anybody. You're here, so you fit in automatically. Yep. We'll welcome you. You can run easy, moderate or mad. I don't care. None of us are going to the Olympics. But what I want you to do is I want you to make sure that you have a good time, and there is no pressure here to run fast. \[05:47\] Yeah. That is the biggest thing. Because we are lifestyle athletes, it must fit into our world, because it's something that gives us some dopamine or something that makes us feel good. So I want you to come have a good time. You don't need to rag yourself if you don't want to, but make sure that you remember that you're doing this for yourself, and hey, you might just meet someone else as well. For the people listening today to this episode with Adzy, I especially think the new runners, and the people that aren't necessarily chasing really high-end PB type \[06:23\] Performance, I think you're going to get a lot out of this. Just that phrase there, lifestyle runners, lifestyle athletes. I've stolen some of your terminology on the podcast in previous episodes as well. Hobby joggers, another one of my favourites. Where's your passion for health and fitness come from? Let's kind of go back a little bit to the beginning with you. Yeah, it's interesting, because everyone goes, oh Adzy, we know he's fit, works with ASICS, was an athlete around the world. But it's funny, because no one really knows that at high school I was really overweight. \[06:57\] So if you hit the Bulletin today and Googled Adam Gordon, too fat to run, there's an article that'll pop up. When I was younger, I was unable to run because I was quite overweight. My maths teacher at school said to my parents, Adzy will never be a runner because he's too overweight to be able to run. That's when I was little. I played golf and I played hockey. God forbid, I then turned 17, 18, 19, started running, became an endurance athlete, and pride myself on being a runner who understands both worlds - the professional world and the \[07:33\] World of someone that's learning to run. Or finds it hard to run, or is carrying a bit of weight. So I would say that my world is split in half. I understand the heavier side, or the learn to run side. I understand the elite side. But down the middle, the biggest thing that I think as a trainer or someone in this industry is that you have empathy in spades. And that's all. Well, can I just go back to your seventeen year old Adam? Can I ask, was it because you were inactive, or because you were eating poorly, or was it a genetic thing? \[08:09\] Like, why were you the size you were when you were seventeen? Because if you've been to New Zealand you know what a dairy is. So a dairy, for any fan listening, is like a 24-7 corner shop, a deli type of thing. Yeah. Seven Elevens. Right, and coming from a farming background, and the dairy - well, we had one of them on the corner. Yeah, so I was a teenage kid, quite hypo, liked the sugar, I was able to access food all the time when I was young. So therefore my mobility was a little bit there, but it wasn't a lot. So I played a lot of golf, wasn't very active. \[08:40\] Yeah. Became quite a good little golfer. Yeah. Played a bit of hockey. If you've watched field hockey, you can get away with playing certain positions without running much. Right. So therefore my weight was just a little bit heavier. Okay. And that's fine, and I understand genetics and understand these things. But during that time I wasn't as athletic as I am now. Yeah. Or as I was as a professional athlete. But I can tell you right now that playing golf taught me to be able to concentrate. All right, which is a really big thing for now, because I can just lock in and concentrate. Of course. The food choices - well, I'm a lot more conscious now because I know what it feels like to be like that. \[09:16\] And it's a really big topic in our community right now. You know, the weights, all these kinds of things. And that's important. But for me it was more so the inactivity of just running around. Yeah. You know, we had a dairy, it's pretty cool. Yeah. Chips, chocolate, whatever you want to have as a teenage kid, pretty grouse. And then yeah, I didn't run too much. But then I went and studied in Otago and then I got fit. So, because there's people in their 20s, in their 30s, 40s, whenever it is, in their 50s, who are taking up the run boom that we're seeing at the moment. \[09:46\] And the reason I wanted to talk to you today is not only because you work professionally day to day as an exercise physiologist in this space, but also you are an ambassador for brands like ASICS. You do a lot of work around the Gold Coast Marathon, you also help train elite athletes in certain spaces. So you really are across the whole gamut. But for people - and then you work with people who are just coming into running - did you have a come to Jesus moment about health and fitness, or is it what everybody says about it's slow \[10:21\] Progression over time? Is it two steps forward, one step back sort of stuff for you personally? Yeah, I mean I always had an interest. Of course, when I was in New Zealand I went to the Otago Institute of Sport, which is a big study place in Dunedin, if you've spent some time there. And then I came across here and I started tapping into this space here, and yeah, it was just an evolution really. Okay. To be fair. Yeah. You know, which has endured for thirty plus, or you know, twenty five years. Yeah. So I was given a bike and I rode that, and then like all good professional triathletes they've all got a story, and I shared a bike and a helmet and you \[10:52\] Know, and the rest is history from there. Talk to us about how you found triathlon then. So I was trying to start my business here when I came to Australia, and I was taking some spin classes, so I was doing a bit of that stuff. Yeah. Someone said, jeez, you might be able to ride a bike. So I rode a bike in a triathlon and that was okay, and I could obviously run a little bit, and I learnt to swim, and then week by week, month by month, it kind of catapulted. But coming back to golf, I think the golf is truly about being able to concentrate. So all of my social stuff I always talk about in running. \[11:22\] We don't need a lot of time. We just need to be able to concentrate per rep. And I'd always talk about that. So I started up this phrase called A2D. Attention to detail. Right. If I have five hours to train, in those five hours I'm going to make sure I maximise those five hours. Same as hitting golf balls. Hit a hundred golf balls really well, rather than a thousand golf balls. So for me in the triathlon space, I could just concentrate, I could think about how my body was moving. I obviously understood the physiology of a body, so therefore I could apply it to both. \[11:53\] So, you know, that's kind of where I ended up. How does A2D apply to people who might be out on their long run today, or out there putting together their run week, or maybe they're tackling the Melbourne Marathon coming up, or maybe they're approaching Noosa? How do you take that philosophy to your hobby joggers, your everyday, your lifestyle athletes? I simply think that if you're thinking and training on how your body's moving, then you're training. So if you go to train, I always say that your brain is like a computer. You're downloading hardware, which is the memory. \[12:25\] So if you go out training and you're jogging and you're not really thinking about too much and you're just enjoying the fresh air, that's exercising. But training with a purpose, training for something, would require you to concentrate a little bit more. This is good. This is - I'm going to pause this here, because even that phrase, the difference between exercising and training, I think for a lot of people has probably gone, well shit, I thought they were the same thing. So say that for us again. So the training is exercising with intent, or a purpose, or a focus. \[12:55\] Correct. Okay. Okay. And when people - I mean, how do you shift? Let me rephrase that. Do you believe training is more important than exercising? Or do you believe that everybody should be trying to train as opposed to exercise? I think recreational athletes, if they have purpose, which is a destination, i.e. a finish line, during that period they must concentrate on the process, the outcome, and whatnot, \[13:32\] The systems. If you are exercising for wellness, the pressure needs to be minimal, the fun aspect needs to be higher. But in those times where you are training for something that is meaningful to you, which is an event, or the Gold Coast Marathon, I think you need to lock in for a short amount of time, which is why we always say you can probably do one or two events a year really well. Because that requires your attention to detail to be a little bit higher. Because psychologically, plus your life, there's a lot going on. \[14:06\] Because stress load is not training load, it's life load plus training load. And that's a different ball game, because when you then play in the wellness and exercise space, which is like we just did today and having a jog, that is really playful and fun without having to worry about how your body is really moving. Again, you've thrown something out that I want to stop on. What was that again? Stress load is life load plus training load. How important is it for people, your lifestyle athletes, to remember that? Because with Strava and with socials and with, again, the boom of running, this comparison, this need \[14:45\] To compete, this need to compare, it's almost inescapable for most lifestyle athletes as well. It's so hard to block out the noise around running these days. And this podcast is guilty of it as well. We talk about, you know - maybe you never listened to a running podcast before and now suddenly you're incorporating this podcast as a part of your running week and your running routine. Do you think any of it's gone too far? Like, do you ever ask any of your athletes to \[15:19\] Stop posting to Strava, or to ignore perhaps some of the social stuff around the sport they're looking into? Yeah, I mean I'm a little bit old school, because I'm mid forties, so I've got to be mindful here of the way I see it sometimes. But I think it's really important that we understand that the exercise for us is very minimal in a day. Might be thirty minutes, might be sixty minutes. So it's really important that in that time we maximise our time for us. So by doing that, I think sometimes having a phone on you is detrimental. \[15:52\] I understand it's safe. Yep. And we need it because it's safe if you have a fall or something happens. But I think that we're losing the ability to be present. Yeah. I said today when I was running in the forest with Sam, maybe people are fearful of hearing their own breath, or their heart pumping. Never ever do I run with headphones. Because I'm out there to think about what I'm doing while I'm training. I always say that if you are thinking about one technique while you're training, then you're downloading good data. Right. \[16:22\] So I don't want to take my brain away from what I'm doing. Because I want to be there, because I choose to be there. So I want to hear my feet landing and I want to hear my breath. Yeah. And I want to see the birds chirping and I want to make sure I see things. My awareness is high and I'm seeing the world quite wide, as opposed to, I'm going to run in the forest quietly, I'm going to put my headphones on, I'm going to shut everything out. Yeah. My goodness, that's the last place you want to be when you're exercising, because you're there to feel everything. So you want to feel everything. And if you don't feel it, then you don't get the true satisfaction of understanding why we're out there. \[16:54\] Yeah. You know, we only have twenty minutes a day. So don't hide from it, feel it, and then it's going to boost you for the rest of the day. So social media is wonderful. There's a training camp that happened on the weekend that I know about, with some people that were training for an event that's coming up in Adelaide this weekend. The boss said no social media for three days. Wonderful. What happens? They're present, they do some notes, they do some journaling. Use the social media when you need to, for sure. But just remember to enjoy yourself and stay present. \[17:25\] That's the biggest thing. I want to see more people chatting to each other, laughing, having fun, as opposed to just hiding from the world and putting something up on there. This post COVID run boom - what are some of the things you like about it? What are the things that you enjoy, and that you as somebody who works in the area have loved seeing come as a result of this running boom that we're right in the middle of at the moment? \[17:55\] I just love that more people - this might sound crazy because I do work in a gym a lot. Yeah. But part of me loves it that the gyms were closed and people had to find something else to do. Takes me back to when you were like 12 or 14 and you went up a tree and you had to build your own tree hut, for example. Yeah, you know, things to do. Well, what could we do? We had no access to anything. So we take it right back and strip it back to what it should be, which is running or walking. People would put a set of runners on. Didn't matter how old you were, it didn't matter what ability you had, it didn't matter how much running you'd done during COVID, you would go out on the street and you would walk \[18:33\] One lamppost and you would jog one lamppost. I still take my son around a 1K loop every second day and we walk one lamppost and we run one lamppost. Yeah. And what did that do in COVID? It got more people outside. More people walking, more people using wearables to be able to go, I've done ten thousand steps. It's a wonderful, wonderful movement for running. Maybe not so much for the gym - trust me, I had to deal with that - but for me it was more people going, all right, now I need to find something to do. \[19:07\] All right, cool. Started running or walking. Before you knew it, lots of people are running and walking. You know, I think that the movement of running post COVID has definitely been because of something like that. Now, on from that, you're now seeing more types of people running, not just the really skinny bloke with the shirt pulled out. Yeah. You're seeing all kinds, and I'm from New Zealand, I haven't seen that many bros running in my life. You run down Surfers Paradise now and they've got boom boxes and a great time. \[19:40\] But to me, God, that makes me happy. Yeah. Nothing makes me happier than seeing people that probably wouldn't have been out running. But there wasn't much to do back then. Yeah. Yeah, the world's exploded. And parkrun. Well, if you look at anything in the world that is successful, you look at a kids' program. Soccer. Kids' programs are awesome. It goes further on. Lots of people do it. Surf clubs, children's programs, kids parkrun. If you're a parent listening to this and you go down and watch your kid run or walk 2K, that's like winning the grand final. \[20:16\] Yeah. Nothing better if you're a runner, but it's introducing them to running. I maintain that, and I said this at the radio station the other morning and it kind of - it didn't stun the room, but it put a few people in the studio on the back foot - I think parkrun is the greatest invention of the last 25 years. It started in 2004, and I genuinely believe that of the last 25 years - I think technically the iPhone first came out after that, and yes, the iPhone has changed \[20:50\] The world, but I think in terms of social benefit, parkrun is the greatest invention of the last 25 years. Because of everything you just spoke about there, there's still so much opportunity for everybody coming. There's zero cost associated with it. An iPhone is expensive. It costs you nothing to go down and get involved in parkrun. And to go back to how we started this episode, you talking about run clubs giving people a place to be - parkruns, I mean, you see it every Saturday morning with the Main Beach parkrun, which I think is the biggest parkrun in Australia. \[21:24\] The social aspect of it, forget about the exercising part of it for the moment. That social aspect to this, from your ten year olds doing their first one with mum and dad, through to the eighty year old who's completing parkrun number a hundred and fifty or whatever it is. I've never seen anything like it. Yeah, I mean if you strip it back as well and look at the values of parkrun - like, I don't believe that we do enough volunteering. We're too busy. So I love it that people volunteer and kids get to volunteer, and people get to see what it's like to create something. \[21:57\] Because it is, really. I take running as like origami, right? You've got a piece of paper. This is good. I don't know where this is going but I like it. Go. You've got a piece of paper and you've got nothing. But right, you get creative, you put it together, something magical happens, right? Something brilliant happens, right? Whether that be I'm going to run 1K, 2K, I'm going to walk 3K, I'm going to do a parkrun, I'm going to go do a marathon. Okay. Alright, it's as simple as that. I mean, the beauty of running is that it's simplistic. It's like origami. You get to choose how you want to gift wrap it, how you want to fold it, but it gives you the same outcome, and that is that it feels good. \[22:34\] So therefore, why wouldn't you? Yeah. You know? Yeah. Anyway, parkrun, big shout out to people. And just on that volunteering thing, say a bit more about that. You don't think we do enough volunteering in our lives? No, I don't, I don't, I genuinely don't. And I'd love to see more of it through the school program so the kids can learn how to do it more, and how we all do it. Because I think that if we could all start to do a little bit more for others, yeah, it bounces back twofold. Yeah. Inherently volunteering starts to become a little bit selfish, because you walk away from a voluntary activity or a role or whatever it might be, and the feeling it gives you, \[23:09\] The feeling it gives you kind of makes you want to go back and do more of it actually. It's what feeds most people's soul. You know what I mean? You can buy something, but that evaporates pretty quick. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, retail therapy ain't the same as doing something for somebody else. Yeah. It is such a great thing. Mate, we're in the thick of marathon season right now. We're in the thick of it. And you are a Gold Coast Marathon ambassador, you have been for many years. We've just seen Sydney, the second year it's ever been a major. Have you run Sydney as a major before? \[23:42\] Yes. You ran last year? Last year. Right. What do you think of it? Yeah, it's wonderful. I mean, I've done that a few years now. Watched it go from that through to the major. Yep. And again, that vehicle of people being able to come and experience such an incredible event with so many people on the same bus. Yep. In an incredible city. Yep. Is everything. It's wonderful. Now, it doesn't need to be big events, but a major is a heck of an experience when you go. \[24:15\] I've done Tokyo as well with ASICS. Yeah, I mean it's tricky. I did it many years ago, it was quite chilly. Yep. I was only there for a couple of days and then flew out. But yeah, the culture of Japan, and racing in Asia in my past career - man, the Japanese culture is so wonderful. They're playful, they're all about Mickey Mouse. They all dress up. I've got a photo running, and I think I ran, I don't know, a 2:40 marathon. \[24:49\] I remember running along and it was cold and I looked to my left and there's this dude dressed as Mickey Mouse. I remember giggling to myself. But it's really fun. Yeah. Like dress up is fun. You know what I mean? That culture is wonderful. So people that come to experience it here, Americans come here, and we go elsewhere. Yeah, majors are cool because we go elsewhere. Japanese running culture - Courtney and I have talked about this a bit on previous podcasts. It's rich, it's deep, it's historic, it's collegiate, the Ekiden relay, all that sort of stuff. \[25:23\] What's Australian running culture to you? A question without notice, so if you need to take some time to think on it, it's a big question. I think we're very amateur here. For sure. In the way that - I mean, if I look back, our events are growing, which is good. I think people are learning to run and people are getting into it. Yeah. I think it's been in other countries for a long time. I think here in Australia we have access, and I'd say we're quite lucky in the sense that we have access to doing lots of different sports. \[25:53\] Yes. Okay. That's really important to remember. So, you know, AFL and the kids do this and it might be... So I think in the culture of running for us - I've spent many years working in Bermuda off New York, taking training camps. Small little place, people fly in, you know what I mean? I feel like Australia is a bigger version of Bermuda, in the sense that we are now starting to get a bit of depth into some things, for sure. Yeah. But I think we've got a long way to go to get to, like, you know, cycling in Europe. \[26:26\] Okay. Depth - we are getting it, but we're a long way off getting to that Japanese or that Kenyan running kind of depth of history, if that makes sense. Do you think - you mentioned the variety. Do you think that will ultimately stop us from ever having running as a part of our culture? Because I was like you. I mean, I never got to the elite levels you did with sport, but growing up I played soccer, AFL, tennis, I did cross country, I played hockey. \[26:57\] It was kind of like the pick and mix bar at the cinema. I wanted to try everything. Absolutely everything. And I didn't really make running the thing that I would do until 2016, 10 years ago, when I was 32, when I'd given up playing team sport and all the rest of that. Do you think that broadness - and we're not saying it's a bad thing - but do you think that variety here in Australia ultimately stops us from becoming a Kenya, or somewhere that running is the core? I definitely do, because we are - I mean, how many people on a Sunday afternoon watch the NRL, or chuck the Suns on and watch the Suns? \[27:32\] Yeah. You know what I mean? And when you've got the ocean here too, that's the other factor, right? Because you can pick up a board and go for a swim or go for a paddle or go... We just took the Gold Coast and we sent a letter out and said, what sport do you do, or what do you play? How many times have you been to Cbus, and how many times have you been to... Variety is the spice of life, right? That's right. But the other side of that is there are more people now, which is easy, you know, in five years. Where does it look in five years' time? Well, look at something like Noosa Triathlon, right? \[28:04\] Like, you would have thought that might have run out of steam, but that surprised me. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Let's stick with the marathon chat for a moment, because as I said, we're in the thick of marathon season. You had some athletes obviously run at Gold Coast. Did you have any run in Sydney, and how'd they go? They enjoyed it, and it's quite a physical course. Yeah, it is, but you know, again, that's the price of entry, right, of a marathon. Like, it's good to do different marathons, because you have to experience different things and you feel different things, and preparation is different because \[28:35\] They're preparing to do something that matters to them. Yeah. So you can't just wrangle a marathon. Yeah, you can go out and carry a sofa on your shoulder or whatever, but... Yeah, that sort of thing. Well, that's like what a good friend of ours did. But you know, these events ask you - if you want to be able to function afterwards. Okay, I get it, thank you. Yeah. These marathons are a great opportunity to be able to prepare for something. \[29:08\] As you say, to go back to what you were saying, training versus exercising - if you want to commit to a marathon, you lock in, you take the attention to detail to train for this thing, you can get the most out of it. Melbourne's on the way. Have you run Melbourne? No? Can I ask why not? Again - and a lot of people might be listening to this and think, well, I haven't run certain marathons or whatever. Adzy, you're a man who lives and works in this space. You've run a lot of events, you've competed in a lot of events. \[29:42\] The distance isn't the challenging part for you. Why haven't you run Melbourne? Okay. And I think, if I'm right, it's coming up... Yeah, I think it's probably four or five weeks away. Or less than. It's late October, I think. Right, going back to my first point, I think if you prioritise the events for the year. Okay. I've always prioritised it with the Gold Coast, or Sydney, or whatever trial event it might be, or whatever it might be. So I think it's just the time, to be honest. Okay. Not that I wouldn't do it. No. I'd love to do something. \[30:12\] But no, because it also used to fall around the Noosa Triathlon time. Yeah. So it's tricky, but now, you know, I'm only basically doing running. Yeah. It's an option, but no, I haven't gone down there to run. But I always say that if you live in Queensland and you go south, you have a haematocrit or haemoglobin, which is your red blood cell carry, that goes quite well when you go south because there's no humidity. So most runners that go south tend to get a bit of free air. Tend to run quite well. \[30:42\] You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. So that's cool. So the incentive is great. Like, you going to Geelong and doing a 70.3\. You used to never get tired; go to Busso - it's warm but it's not humid. Yeah. You know what I mean? Okay. So anyone that's listening on here that wants to do an event, that lives in Queensland, that is constantly working with restricted air - you're basically at altitude without it. Head south, give yourself a couple of days, have some water, have some beetroot juice, and then whip in. We've done - I mean, the last couple of years we've been lucky enough to have the great Benita Willis come on, lace up running and talk to us a bit about marathon programming and \[31:19\] Training and all the rest of that. What are mistakes you see people make when they tackle marathons? What's the biggest mistake you see people make? The biggest mistake I think is, going back to what we talked about earlier, understanding how much energy we put out in life. How much have we done in this sport? I.e. how much running have we done? What's our experience? And then how much time do we have? \[31:51\] And how can we maximise that time? So for example, we can do two things well, but not three. I always say that. So you're going to prioritise where your energy goes. So my biggest thing is that people go, all right, I'm going to do a marathon, but I'm going to keep working as much as I am, and life stress is going to carry on. Yeah. And before you know it, we end up injured. So I think the biggest thing is, people, just take your time. Drip feed your fitness, stay pretty fit predominantly all year round without having to do too much more. And then when you want to concentrate, sure, you can increase your intake a little bit for sure, which is your training. \[32:23\] Yeah. But don't go into a prep from zero. Maintain some kind of base, so that when you do start to add that extra stress to your life, which is your training, which is the other aspects of life that pop up, that you are able to maximise the time that you have, because it's not that much. I like that idea, and it suddenly just popped into my head as you're explaining it then. And I'm guilty, I have been guilty of this - it's almost as though pre that 12-week block, and we've already - we've talked about, Courtney and I have previously talked about \[32:59\] The idea that the 12-week block isn't where you get fit. You need to be fit before the 12-week block starts. The 12-week block for a marathon is where you do the training to achieve the goal that you've set yourself. But that lifestyle maths that you're almost talking about there, which is to sit down and go, a 12-week block is going to require X. Right now my life is Y plus Z minus whatever it is. \[33:30\] What do I actually need to sacrifice in order to accommodate X? Because we all look at a twelve week block - and again, I'm guilty of this - I look at a twelve week block and I'm going, okay, it's going to have me running this many Ks a week. But what I haven't factored in previously when I've encountered those twelve week blocks is going, all right, that's how many Ks it is and that's how many runs a week it might be. But that also means this many hours of recovery, or that amount of training time means that I can't pick up the kids from school that day, or I can't \[34:04\] Do dinner on that night, for twelve weeks, sort of thing. It's that lifestyle maths that I've probably never done heading into a twelve week block before. Yeah, and it's interesting, because if I use the reference - and one of my favourite ways to look at coaching and how well I've coached someone, and Courtney's doing it right now - nothing makes me more happy than when a runner has a great day and says to me a week later, I can't wait to do something else. \[34:35\] I can't wait to go do another run. Yep. I can't wait to just go to running next Wednesday. Yeah. The last thing I want to hear is, oh, I'm so glad that's over. Or, I just can't wait for rest. Yeah. Because, you know, I'm tired. For me, from the wellness side, that's not achieving what we've set out to achieve. Yeah. That's deep fatigue, and that's only going to rattle you. Therefore you're probably not going to continue doing the thing that you love to do, which is clearly running. So what does that say to you when someone - because there would be people, and I know people, that have finished marathons and said, never again. \[35:10\] What does that say? I mean, part of it might just be that they didn't enjoy the experience. But do you think that reaction is avoidable? I think so. I do think so. But you know, I've coached a lot of people who've said, give me a volume and I'm out of here. You know what I mean? So I'm like, that's cool, but my biggest thing is that a wellness or a recreational runner is twelve months a year, year on year. You know what I mean? So I want people to continue to keep running, because you learn new things, you get \[35:44\] More experience, you get to do more of what you love to do. Yeah. So I think understanding where you're at, with what you've done, with what time you have for what's important to you, is the biggest thing. And then, how do I maximise that time? That's the key. Staying with marathoning for a moment. Last week on the podcast - this is the first time we've talked about it since, Courtney's not here - I will just say this to everybody running along listening. We have received plenty of comments off the back of the Nedd Brockmann conversation from last week. \[36:18\] Which, if this is your first episode and you haven't caught up on it - I made the declaration that I think we're going to see Nedd Brockmann in Brisbane 2032\. I thought his performance at Sydney Marathon was impressive. 2:21, I think he ran. He was the ninth Aussie across the line. Courtney disagreed, and this is why Courtney and I love doing the podcast every week, because we have conversations about running, and we're not always going to agree on stuff. Both of us have received feedback from the other side of the fence about that take. I did receive some feedback from somebody who I don't need to name, that they think come Brisbane \[36:54\] The qualifying time, or the expectation time around the elite athletes, will be somewhere closer to 2:03\. Do you think that's right? Because I know we've seen Sabastian Sawe setting the marathon record at 1:59\. Official, no Kipchoge drafting, no special course, legit run in the London Marathon. It broke a barrier. We saw, I think the winner of Sydney this year was a 2:05\. Do you think the progression of marathoning will get to that stage by Brisbane, that you're going to need to run a sub-2:05 to be in the mix or to be at the event? \[37:30\] Well, let's just take it back a little bit. Isn't the Olympics a race, not a participation event? Yes. So therefore, if they're racing, more people at the same speed is going to create a race. Yes. It's going to breed a better opportunity of doing greatness. Yes. Or something we haven't seen before. Yes. If we throw someone in that's done a 2:12, they're a couple of Ks behind by the time the guy's finished, they're not contributing to the race. Yes. The Olympics is about getting the fastest athletes together to do something amazing, because it's show business too. \[38:07\] You know what I mean? So yes, he might be a 2:21 and that's amazing. And his linear progression is phenomenal. Yeah. His story is phenomenal. Yeah. And all of that is amazing. Yeah. He's an incredible guy who's dealt with some crazy stuff. Yeah. You know. Some of us will be able to relate to him, some not. But can he run a 2:03? Well, I don't know. Yeah. Can he run a 2:05? I don't know. That's up to him. And neither do I. And as I've said to everybody that's responded to me - hey, if humble pie needs to be eaten by me in 2032, I will sit down and shovel that \[38:42\] Stuff in. I look forward to the journey. I guess my question's not so much about Nedd, it's more about the elite level performance and what the pointy end of marathoning is going to look like come Brisbane in 2032\. Well, I mean, you know, if the whole point of it is that we get X amount of people that can create an opportunity, great. I think if you look at it, and look at the space of the age of marathon runners doing phenomenal things at a lot younger. \[39:13\] Yeah. There's a lot of them out there. You know what I mean? So hopefully at some point they somehow get together and we do get this big pack of guys that can run between 2:02 and 2:04, and we'll see some great things. But you know, if you look at other sports, they've all had this. You know, PGA golf's had it, the tour's had it. It's going to happen, because it's evolution, and we never had it before, now we have it. Yeah. So if we fast forward to 2032, which is still six years away - you know, think about what's happened in six years, and my goodness. \[39:46\] Yeah. You know? Yeah. It's only COVID ago. Yeah. And look at it now. Yeah. Look at Sydney Marathon now. Look at all these events now. It is a really, really exciting time. And your sports science brain goes, well, I'd hate to think what's possible. Do you ever sit down and speculate? I think the Sabastian Sawe leap at London this year - they talk about the four minute mile, and when that was, I think it had never been broken before. \[40:18\] And was it Roger Bannister, I believe, who was the first fella to break it? And then in the next - and again, check my facts - but something like in the next month, six more blokes broke it. It was kind of that it wasn't the physical limitations, it was that mental, oh, it can be done. And then it was like the dam wall bursts and suddenly, oh, it can be done. Sabastian Sawe at London - I wonder. I mean, because what, Valencia is now an incredibly fast marathon, Berlin's still on the way, not too far away, a historically \[40:52\] Incredibly fast marathon. Is it a dam wall bursting moment, do you think? It's got to be. But every sport has it. Yeah. Right? You know, so I would say that you're kidding yourself if you don't think there's going to be more people doing incredible things. Because you know, once the bubble bursts, people know that if they want to be there, and they are working for that job and it is their job, they're going to have to pull the trigger. But it's so fast, Adzy. It's so - But is it? What's his per K pace? \[41:24\] If he's running a 1:59 - I'm just trying to, I'm doing some quick Googling here. If he's, that's a 2:50/km. Yeah. But there's more of them out there. That's the thing, right? Like if you go to track running, look at who's running really fast on the track at the moment. My goodness, look at them in six years' time, they're probably going to be in that space. They're just jogging around. The zone two that everyone loves to yak about is going to be 3:05/km. \[41:58\] But you know, it is evolution, it's science, it's the movement. Getting ten guys that can run 2:05 together in a training group - my goodness, that breeds possibility, opportunity, and a new threshold. Yep. Things are going to change, because they are changing. Yep. Where Courtney and I sit now, it just seems a long way off. Marathons, the majors - it went from we had six, Sydney got added in, we've had Shanghai added, Cape Town as well. \[42:34\] Where's somewhere you've never run that you'd love to? Good question. It doesn't have to be a major marathon either. Just out of - is there somewhere? Because I think a part of running now, hobby joggers, lifestyle athletes, as you love to call them - part of this running tourism, this fitness exploration, this idea of running not just for a finish line but to travel somewhere to experience something, is now a huge industry. Is there somewhere you've never run that you'd love to? \[43:04\] I'd love to run in Europe. Okay. A little bit, because the culture's nice. Yes. Food's great. Would this be like a marathon or a trail race or something? I'd love to - I have been there before. I would love to do an event in Lucca in Italy, or somewhere off the coast, or just somewhere over there where you get to experience a different culture. Yeah. It's a wonderful culture. Yeah. It's a destination to go there for a few days. You know, I look at Kosciuszko, the 100K that Sammy and I did, and ran in the snow together. \[43:39\] That was cool because we all went there as families and we had a great time. Yeah. You know, a destination like that. Somewhere where you can pack up, go away, experience somewhere different that is different to your world here. Yeah. That's kind of what I'd be looking for. Yeah, cool. What is your favourite place you have run or competed? Because obviously with triathlon as well. I really love Taiwan. Which is interesting because it's really hot. I remember the commentators going, after the bike it was like forty, forty five degrees. But I just love the Asian culture. \[44:10\] I just love that culture. I just love the smiles, those kinds of things. Yeah. Sure, you race in America, but it's different. Yeah. But yeah, I think Taiwan for me is a really neat culture. Yeah. I don't know why. But you just feel welcome there. Yeah. Yeah, it's lovely. I want to talk a little bit about motorsport, because as well as exercise physiology and your past as an elite level athlete, professional athlete, and the coaching and the run clubs and all of that, you are two feet into the world of motorsport. \[44:44\] How did you run your way into motorsport? I was taking some programs at a physio clinic, and Will and Ri happened to pop in to ask for some advice on something. That's Will Davison, for those who might not be into their motorsport - Will Davison, V8 Supercar driver who's only just hung up the wheel full time in the most recent season, and Riana Crehan is his wife, who's a friend of the pod as well. So they attended some classes and then we got chatting, and they obviously knew I was in the gym, and then yeah, I started to build a bit of a \[45:16\] Relationship with them. And then of course Tim Slade, who's a very good friend of mine, used to ride push bikes with him. Okay. He's a very good cyclist. Yep. So this is many, many years ago now. And then yeah, then I started to understand the ergonomics of the output and what it required. I obviously had a background in being able to deal with heat and temperature, stress and all these things that matter at high performance level. Yep. So for me it was really easy to understand - all right, we need a way here, we need to do this, we need to make sure we maximise that. And then I just started to chip away with these guys. And then of course now we have quite a big program there. \[45:48\] And if I look at this weekend, Taylor and Ben, with Bathurst coming up - I'm very fortunate and really thankful to be able to work alongside some guys that can do some wonderful things this weekend and at Bathurst. So yeah. What is it about supercar drivers, motorsport athletes, that your average punter probably doesn't appreciate from a fitness level? The output is interesting. What it takes to brake and accelerate over time. The multi day event to me is really cool. \[46:20\] So for example, I'm going to give you a bit of tech here. When one of our drivers brakes quite heavily, it's about ninety seven kilos single leg leg press. Okay, this is good. So ninety seven kilo single legged leg press. So for those that aren't doing enough gym work on their legs, that's the machine where you're lying on your back essentially and you're pushing that plate up. Correct. Okay. So you're pressing that, then you're accelerating and whatnot. We multiply that over the race, that's great. You then add temperature, which is of course really hard because it's very hot. \[46:53\] Okay. You then add the need to be able to dial in like a brain surgeon and concentrate for, you know, that amount of time, while taking radio information, while dealing with everything else. So it really is a vehicle of lots going on. Wow. They're in the car multiple times a day, so they need to be fit, and they have to do it for three or four days in a row. Yeah. Same thing about a touch tournament, or running 5K every day hard. Yeah. You know, these guys are doing that. So for me, I love the intensity of preparation. I love the application side. \[47:23\] And I love that I have the understanding and have the resources to be able to deal with all different bodies that are doing that sport, male or female now, which is pretty cool. So it's unbelievable, the physiological space of this stuff. Yeah, so here we are. Just on that, we should say - and this is coincidental, we mentioned Nedd Brockmann, now we've mentioned Riana Crehan, who's also a part of the Supercars TV coverage - they've got something new they're doing for the first time this year here on the Gold Coast when the GC500 comes back. They're doing track club. \[47:58\] Are you going to be running in that? I'm running in that. Yeah. Giving people a chance, the Friday before the racing starts - essentially it's another run event. You're giving people an opportunity to go out and run either a couple of laps or one lap of the actual V8 Supercars circuit here on the Gold Coast, and then turn it into a bit of a recovery party afterwards, by the sounds of it. Sounds fun. Yes, I mean it's Friday morning. Yeah. Sun will be shining. Coffee will be there. Coffee will be there. Little ones can do it. There we go. Bring the family. \[48:29\] It has no speedo. That's the biggest thing people need to remember. Doesn't matter how fast you go, you can walk it, run it, run it fast. Yep. All these events cater for everybody. So it's really cool. So for example, my son, who's 10, we're probably going to run walk the 3K. Lovely. Perfect. Absolutely wonderful. How do you go about - speaking about your son, I've got a ten year old and a six year old now. Ten year old is probably letting little athletics go this summer because she's really enjoying touch. \[49:00\] Loves cross country. Was devastated not to quite finish in the top ten of her cross country race at school. A lot of the people who listen to this podcast have got kids, and maybe they've always been runners, or maybe they've just caught the running bug. Any general advice from a coach's perspective about kids in running? Yeah, I think it's play, which is the most important thing. So it's playful and fun. Yep. And it's gift wrapped. By that I mean that you might want to just, you know, start by being at the park and kicking the footy around, or whatever it might be, or doing sprints and kind of \[49:34\] Things like that. But I think it's a big place for you to be able to spend time with your little one, which is really cool. And they get to see you doing it, which is really important. Yeah. I ran the marathon with my son in the pram, and the half marathon. And it was cool that we shared that together and he got to see it, and I think it's really important that the kids get to see, you know, whoever might be looking after the child - that they can do it. And, you know, little ones truly idolise what we're around. Yeah. \[50:05\] So they get a really good insight into wellness, or how it makes the caregiver feel. And then secondly, I think it's really nice to share their time together. So yes, run a little bit but not lots, but make it fun and playful while they're young. I always make a concerted effort, and my wife does as well - obviously with her kids, both of us love going out and training. We're both doing Noosa again this year, and Alana ran her first marathon on the Gold Coast this year as well. But I make a really concerted effort when I come home from a run or a ride or whatever it is - normally I'm in a good mood anyway, the endorphins are firing. \[50:43\] But really avoiding the idea of ever trying to exercise for the sake of - or having the message get to my kids that exercising is for weight loss, or exercising to try to avoid something. Because right now I feel like I want them to, by osmosis, absorb that exercising equals joy, fun, happiness - not, this is something you have to do if you want to drink and eat and do all \[51:13\] The other sort of stuff that kids see adults do anyway. I don't want it to be communicated to my kids that this is the price you pay for the other stuff you have to do. I'm trying to push that - not push, but I want my kids to see that on a day to day perspective. Yeah, I mean that's consistency and routine, and it's important. You know, that's the most important thing. Yeah, the kids don't need to be in an intense situation. They've got enough going on in their worlds, don't you think? And that's fine too, right? But for us, we want them to see that the caregiver gets up. \[51:47\] Yeah. They go walking. Where are they? Oh, they're going out to walk around the block. And then when you get back you fill your own bucket. Yeah, happy. So maybe the message is, you know, I like to go out and exercise because it makes me feel really good. You know what I mean? And that's the message, as opposed to, you know, I'm going out to earn a muffin, or whatever it might be. You know, it's a script, because it's really important that we use the right terminology in the community, and that we don't just mix message it, like, you know, exercise equals, you know. Yeah. \[52:17\] That kind of thing. It's really important that we just use the words right. And as well - look, my daughter's only ten, but I know that that world is going to come at her quick, about body image and all the rest of that too. So that's something I'm yet to navigate. I know it's ahead of me down the track. So when I get there, we'll walk through that together, I guess. But I mean, I'm exposed to that a lot at my teenage level for work. Okay. I have conversations with parents about, you know, what I see might be a good idea, and whether that be some assistance or some nod, and it's really important. \[52:52\] The biggest thing we can do is just be honest with the conversation. Yeah. You know what I mean? And understand it from their side. I always say, if you can look, listen, feel - when you're looking at somebody, you look at them, you kind of listen, you try and get a feel for what they're trying to say. Have a think, and then speak. I like that. It's really important. Look, listen, feel. Have a little think, take a pause, and then try and understand why they might be thinking that, or wanting to do that, or how they're seeing that. And then you can go about navigating what you need to for an adult or for a teenager. \[53:24\] I have a tendency to talk, then look, listen, feel. It's a good one in life, generally. In that moment you did it. Yeah. You know what I mean? So it's really important that we just do that if we can. It doesn't matter who we're talking to. Whether I'm talking to a parent about a kid, or I'm talking to, you know, someone in the triathlon space. Yeah. Someone, or whatever it might be, it doesn't matter. The biggest thing is we just try to understand, why is it that they're looking at it like that? Yeah. What could we potentially do? \[53:54\] Hey, before we finish up - and you've been incredibly generous with your time - I wanted to have you on today with Courtney being away, because I think yours is a voice that I like hearing from in the running and exercise space, and I hope that the people that listen to the podcast have enjoyed your perspective on all things running and exercise. Shoes. You're lucky enough to have been an ASICS ambassador, you've had a great partnership with ASICS over the years. What do you think of the shoe culture that we're in these days? I mean, if you go back to the seventies, yeah, people went to a disco with jeans and runners on, right? \[54:30\] I feel like we're just reliving that again, but it's like, what, fifty years later? So I'm here for it, yeah, for sure. I do fear and I do worry that we just remember as well that we do get back to basics and we do concentrate on still running. By that I mean, you know, running properly, and using biomechanics properly, because that's important. Yeah. But yeah, the shoe boom is - Do you like shoes? Yeah. I love them, but I also think that they're a vehicle, but they're not everything. \[55:00\] Sure. You know what I mean? So that's really important. I don't think eight year olds need to have carbon plates, and I don't - you know what I mean? So, but I definitely think that they are at this stage currently showing that they do give people quite a good response. So it's wonderful. But I don't know where they end up. At the moment, if we even take the last five years, my goodness, you know, stack height. But there's one thing I did want to try and get across here on that topic. \[55:33\] It's that as great as the shoes are, we want to make sure that we maximise our body and the way it works. Secondly, you know, think about what it is that you're trying to achieve when you're training. And then thirdly, use the shoe as the chance to be able to be better. Don't make it all about the shoe. Make sure you get back to the basics and do the proper training. And I use the comparison - Spot Anderson always used to talk about the fact that... Spot Anderson, for those that might not know, is Bondi Fit; he now lives up on the Central Coast. \[56:04\] He helped me finish my first ever Noosa Triathlon. And bike riding, cycling, for those that know - I've fallen in love with it again recently. It can be an expensive hobby, right? It's not like running. You can really rack up the bill if you get into cycling. But Spot always used to say, you can put yourself on the back of a ten thousand dollar bike, give me a pair of hundred dollar tri bars, and if you haven't done the work, I'll dust you every day of the week. The vehicle, as you put it - the shoes are there to kind of, I guess, give a bit of a NOS boost, a Fast and the Furious style, to the engine, which is you as an athlete. \[56:45\] That's right, right. And that's really important, that we do everything else, and then we get a fresh set of tyres at the end. You can't put them on early, all right? You've got to drive around town with your shopping in the back, and then unload it all and rip in. What's on for you for the rest of 2026 from a running perspective? I am going to head back into the trails actually, which is really neat. I'm really looking forward to that. It's a good time to - Why do you like, what is it you enjoy about trail running? Because Courtney's mad for it, prefers it to the road running. \[57:16\] If he hadn't gotten himself in the marathon world like he did at the Gold Coast this year, he'd probably be living in the trails again. But what is it you love about trail running? I think probably Courtney and I will be very similar. We've always been governed by time and lap time and, you know, kilometres and pace and all that sort of thing. I just think it's as far away from our world as we can get, and it is nothing but simplicity. Yeah. It's beautiful. It doesn't matter how fast you run, it's everything out there. So for me, it serves as a great therapy place as well, I think. You know what I mean? \[57:49\] So, more trail time. Have you got any events? At this stage not yet. We've got to travel a bit with motorsport coming up, so it's important that we prioritise that. And then secondly, I also have to have a little operation actually. Oh no. Talking about topics, and talking about, you know, warning signs and training - our body gives us really, really good little warning signs to make sure you check up on things. Yeah. Currently as it stands, I've got a hernia issue. Okay. So if anyone that's listening knows about that - I've had that for a month and I've navigated it. \[58:20\] And if you're listening to this, I want you to remember that the body will always give you little signs before it gives you a big sign. Okay, so for me I need to get that sorted as well. Yeah, keep an eye on the little signs, because it means there's something bigger you've got to pay attention to. You know, we are masters athletes, so it's important that we look after our vehicles so we can do more of what we'd love to do. Adzy Gordon, thank you for giving me some time, because you're a busy man, but as I said, I love your voice on running and exercise. \[58:50\] Thank you for sharing it.