> ## Content Index > Fetch the complete content index at: https://www.inthebeginningpodcast.com/llms.txt > Use this file to discover other available public pages before exploring further. # Finding Finish Lines & The 2AM Drug Test | EP 96 - URL: https://www.inthebeginningpodcast.com/ep-096-in-the-beginning-podcast/ - Published: 2026-07-24T06:00:00.000Z - Updated: 2026-08-21T00:35:36.000Z - Description: Courtney and Liam on life after a marathon, ASICS overtaking Nike on Strava, the Tour de France's 2am drug-test controversy, and Josh Kerr's new mile world record — recorded on the Gold Coast. - Author: Courtney Atkinson - Tags: Episodes, Main Feed, Marathon Training, Olympics, Strava, Gold Coast Marathon, #Import 2026-07-28 20:58 *Off the back of his Gold Coast Marathon, Courtney's been chewing on something bigger than running — the pull of a finish line, and how normal life doesn't really have one. It leads into a proposed book title (Finding Finish Lines), a Mark Geyer tangent, and Courtney's return-to-running plan: structure, trails, and new shoes. From there it's straight into the shoe world's biggest story of the week — ASICS reportedly overtaking Nike as the most-logged brand on Strava — and what that says about frequency illusion, marketing, and what runners actually wear.* *Listener feedback keeps rolling in on event merch (should you train in your race shirt?) and the European sports-broadcasting camera-angle rules, with a Super Netball comparison. Then the pair dig into the week's biggest cycling controversy: Jonas Vingegaard's Tour de France exit after a 2am drug-testing knock the night before his crash, and whether that kind of scrutiny does more harm than good.* *The back half is a celebration of Josh Kerr's mile world record — the first in 27 years — breaking down what made it special: no Breaking2-style stunt, just a Diamond League race, a public YouTube time trial, and one of running's oldest, most mythologised records finally falling. They close out with a Commonwealth Games preview and a stack of listener shoutouts.* ## In this episode - Why does normal life never have a finish line the way sport does? - ASICS overtaking Nike as the most-logged shoe on Strava — what's actually driving it? - Should you wear your race shirt again after the event, or retire it? - Is a 2am drug-testing knock fair on Tour de France riders? - What made Josh Kerr's mile world record different from a manufactured record attempt? - A Commonwealth Games preview ## Timestamps - **\[00:00\]** Post-marathon life and the pull of a finish line - **\[06:40\]** "Finding Finish Lines" — the book title that stuck - **\[14:34\]** A five-minute rule for days you don't want to run - **\[18:13\]** ASICS overtakes Nike as the most-logged shoe on Strava - **\[28:13\]** Event merch: wear your race shirt again, or retire it? - **\[34:39\]** Jonas Vingegaard's Tour de France exit and the 2am drug test - **\[46:17\]** Josh Kerr breaks the mile world record after 27 years - **\[58:50\]** A Commonwealth Games preview - **\[01:00:55\]** Listener shoutouts and the slushy-truck idea ## Listen ## Related In The Beginning episodes - [EP 094 — The Marathon Is Done. Now What?](https://www.inthebeginningpodcast.com/ep-094-in-the-beginning-podcast-the-marathon-is-done-now-what/) — the episode that first asked the question this one keeps chewing on - [EP 095 — The Slushy Machine Ultra](https://www.inthebeginningpodcast.com/ep-095-in-the-beginning-podcast/) — the very next episode, where the slushy-truck idea actually gets tested - [The Gold Coast Marathon guide](https://www.inthebeginningpodcast.com/gold-coast-marathon/) — the race Courtney's still recovering from throughout this episode ## Full transcript Auto-generated transcript. Timestamps approximate. Hosts: Courtney Atkinson & Liam Flanagan. **Read the full transcript** \[00:00\] In the Beginning podcast, episode 96\. Courtney, how are you? I'm good, Liam. You know what I've spent today doing? What have you been doing the last few days? You have that feeling when you just can never get on top of things? I have it every day. Yep — I made a bit of a pact to myself last week, at least for my personal stuff, that I was going to try to get to the bottom of all my emails, all my messages, a few other things I had to tick off. There was some insurance stuff, and I just thought — can I get to the end? You know, that's the biggest \[00:31\] thing I miss about racing — I thought about it, and racing in sport is that I miss having an end. You talk about the Olympics, you talk about a Gold Coast Marathon, whatever it is you're doing in sport, you've got that goal. That's the one thing I miss in normal life now, is that there's never an end. There's never an end. The reason I laugh is because there are so many people who've started listening from the top of this episode and are \[01:01\] now angry at us, because they all feel this way — everyone feels this way. This is what being an adult is about. And in some way or another, we might look at other people's lives and think, surely you can get on top of all that — but your problems are your problems. I heard a great — actually, I heard Jimmy Carr, who I think is hilarious, brilliant, one of the best, doing this great audience-participation bit where people send him questions. Somebody asked him about problems, and \[01:31\] he said a problem just means it needs your attention. All we have is time, and if something's a problem, it just means it needs your time. Honestly, I could show you my notes app — the list of things I've got to do in my life, in work life, in personal life, in family life, in fitness life, all that sort of thing. I can make lists for everything, exactly, but ticking those things off — well, that's the fun bit, as to what you actually just don't tick off. \[02:01\] You just go, far out, that's been there for like three months now. Sorry if you haven't got an answer — you're not getting one now. I've got a list my wife sent me because I'm on holidays at the moment. As we're recording this, I can see you've just come from golf, and I said, you're having a better day than I am — this looks like a golfing podcast today, because I've stepped straight off the links at Brookwater. Oh, listen to you. Yeah, it was a delightful, hard life, Liam. But over there is my — I literally started my holiday day one, and Alana shares a notes page with \[02:31\] me called "Liam's list," and it's just things I need to do during the school holidays — laundry, spray the weeds, hang pictures, plan Max's party. I've got to sort accommodation for a trip we're doing up to a concert in Brisbane later this year, I've got to sort accommodation for the Noosa Triathlon, I've got to change Quinn's swimming lessons, I've got to organise picking up a new car. Yeah — and that was just one. I've been on holidays for less than 48 hours and already the \[03:01\] rest of my time is filled. You've played golf, and I play golf — cheers, I enjoyed it out there this morning. Hey, I'm sorry that you feel like you can't get on top of things. No, I'm nearly there — I'm so close, Liam, I'm actually excited talking to you, I've got time. Can I share this bit of audio? I want to share this with everyone right now — I came across it the other day, jumped into the algorithm, and thought this is brilliant, because we're in marathon season, so there are a lot of people who are motivated, but there are also a lot of people who've just finished the Gold Coast Marathon — that was their big target, \[03:32\] myself included — and who now might be getting to that phase where they think, do I start running again? What do I do? I haven't signed up for anything, maybe I start doing something else. That's a great segue, because this is literally what I'm talking about — sport is one of the only things that has a finish line, and you get there and you can go, I'm done. And there are some people who might have joined the podcast during marathon prep — before you play it, is there anything else that \[04:04\] has one? Some marriages, I guess — not ours, not ours, but some marriages, although I don't think it's as simple as wiping your hands clean once the solicitors are done. From what I've seen, it tends to drag on a bit. Okay, so there's no finish line on that one either. There's no finish line there. Jobs, I guess, but again, unless you hit a loss, you've got to go find another career. No, but there's still a finish line — some jobs, if you took on a project, or you took \[04:35\] on a consultancy job and the contract finished, that's a finish line to it. This is where I came to this morning — I actually just want finish lines. I don't care what I'm doing, I just want a finish line, because when something can just cycle on forever — I suppose that's part of putting smaller goals in place in life, whatever it is — but if you just allow things to cycle and never finish, it's like that old scenario of never rewarding, never celebrating anything, \[05:07\] because bang, you're on to the next thing. That just hit home this morning — finish lines. I know what your answer will be to this, because of who you are and how you are — would you ever write a book? That's so funny you say that, not because I'm writing one, but I was sitting having coffee, of all places, out in Penrith on Sunday, and I got asked that exact question. I was explaining a scenario about \[05:39\] the different people you meet in life through different jobs, and learning how to — I suppose learning personalities, you start to learn personalities quickly, and you're never always right about assessing people, judging character. But then in a job role, or in a role where it's not friendly, it's not like you're down playing golf, because you're deciding — in job \[06:09\] roles it's like you make the assessment and then how far do you keep pushing when something's not going your way? Or do you actually decide, it's better to cut this one loose and go for something where it works better? Do you follow the pathway of least resistance and make it a great relationship, or are you the type to head-butt against a brick wall? But talking about this, and then someone said, after some \[06:40\] of the stories I was telling, have you ever thought about writing that book? The reason the book question came to mind is I think you've found your title — it's Finding Finish Lines: The Courtney Atkinson Story. That's a good title, Finding Finish Lines. Finding finish lines — never can. Well, and that's the open-endedness of it, which is, you know, your finish lines, if you keep looking for them — credit, Liam Flanagan. Well, you do the foreword if you like. Hey, if you need a foreword or a ghostwriter, I'm here for you. Did I ever tell you I was meant to write a book? No, what book? \[07:10\] You writing? I was tentatively on board to help Mark Geyer write a second one — might have mentioned this on the podcast, I don't know if I ever talked about it, maybe way back at the start — it never got off the ground, but I was very excited, I'd love to write it. What type of book would that have been, where would it have gone, MG? It was a hard-copy book. No, but the story — so basically, MG, Mark Geyer, for those who follow rugby league, you know who I'm talking about. For those who don't, Mark Geyer was a real firebrand, second \[07:40\] rower of the '90s, made his name at Penrith, won a premiership at Penrith. The famous moment of his career was State of Origin, where he stood toe to toe — I think he was 21 at the time — with Wally Lewis, a famous moment of State of Origin. I worked with MG, did a radio show with him for three, four years thereabouts. One of the best blokes you'll meet — every part of who he presents to be on the radio, there's no two versions of Mark Geyer, he is who he says he is. Life for him is all about his \[08:15\] family and his friends, and he keeps his friends and his circle tight. I can't speak highly enough of him. But he released a book, Rugby League Rebel, I think it was called, when he was 28 — just before, or just after, Super League, I might be getting the dates wrong, but he was still playing when he released it. He had so many stories to tell that obviously someone approached him about a book, and he released it. But there's so much that's happened to him since then. \[08:45\] I think MG'd be 54, 55 thereabouts now. There's so much that's happened since then that there's obviously more to tell, and so there was talk of a second book, but it fell through. I'd love the idea — I think sports biographies and autobiographies, when they're done well, for me — I know I'm a nerd, I love all that stuff. Before you jump onto that — good segue — you played for Penrith? I ended up at Penrith, out in the west. What were you doing out west? \[09:18\] I went over to the dark side, mate — well, it's the Blues. Oh, south of the border. No — I actually went into the Panthers. Oh, you went into the — yeah, straight to it, I was doing some stuff down at the club with the Panthers, and like I said, I went to the dark side, but they're a partner of Red Bull. What's it always great to see, the best, and observe the best and what they do? \[09:49\] Can you share anything you noticed? I can't share too much — the reality is one of the best bits of my job is I get to go into different clubs, meet different people. A lot of that I can't, I won't talk about, of course. I just wouldn't. However, what attracts me to it is I was actually there to talk myself, which sometimes feels a bit like being an imposter, talking to the playing group or the high-performance guys. \[10:20\] But in this instance, what I was looking at — you go into a club like that, and they've done so well for so long, I'm just looking at what have they done, what are they doing differently to some of the other clubs you walk into. I got shown through their whole nutrition cabinet and everything else, and it's great stuff. At its base level, they've got the right people in the right jobs — that's been a huge part of it. But also, I had this \[10:54\] thought — sometimes Instagram plays a part in this, social media plays a part in it. You can look at, let's use Sydney as the example, the eastern suburbs and, to a lesser extent, the North Shore — these are the glitz-and-glamour parts of Sydney, the parts we all look to, painting with a broad brush here, but we all see value in these glitzy, glamorous parts of Sydney. And the joke about the Roosters is they don't have a juniors program — \[11:25\] like the Roosters have never developed a junior in their life, they just go and buy the best players from other clubs. Not 100% true, but the value the Panthers have over everybody else in the competition is their nursery — that western Sydney catchment is as deep and rich and full of talent as you'll find anywhere in the country. Plus, the other thing I realised while I was out there is they love living there too. They're proud. Yeah — and not just the ones who've lived there their \[11:59\] whole lives, out of Penrith, but the ones who've moved there to play for the club, they're around the club too. It's community — and you know, when I was having that coffee, telling you the story about the book, it was nice, we were on the river, cruising along. There's a beach out there, the Penrith beach. The one thing I thought Michael 'Madge' Maguire did really well when he was coach of the Blues, before he took the Broncos \[12:29\] job — when he took over the Blues, he basically said, the best team in the comp right now is Penrith. Nathan Cleary's the best halfback, Jarome Luai's one of the best five-eighths, Isaah Yeo's the best lock — and this core of Penrith players is the core of our New South Wales team. So rather than doing what Brad Fittler used to do, taking them down to Coogee, he said, no, this is a team for Sydney, for New South Wales, this is a team of the west, let's base them out here. \[13:00\] And they went and built their training ground up in the Blue Mountains, in Katoomba, and kept it within the community rather than forcing it into Coogee, which is predominantly Irish and English. They kept it in the community, and I think it paid off for them that season. Can I tell one story on that — yeah, go on. You mentioned Isaah — I was telling a story about the London Olympics and the Brownlee brothers, how quick they ran and everything else, \[13:30\] and I didn't call them the Brownlee brothers, I just said two brothers from Great Britain who were in this race, and he came up and said, straight away, the Brownlee brothers. And I said, how do you know the — the Brownlee brothers, on Instagram and all the socials, you remember when they carried each other across the finish line? That famous moment. And that comes back to what we talk about a lot, what actually resonates with people in general — \[14:02\] that story of them going across the finish line together obviously had more impact than them winning the Olympics. Of course, to a wider audience — not to the triathletes and the people who knew the sport, but to a wider audience. It just dawned on me, that's how a lot of people know the Brownlee brothers — not because of the records they set, not because of how brilliant they were, the two of them, in their hometown, but just because that got shared across socials, helping each other across the finish line one day. Let's get to some running — I like that stuff, but that was fun to wander off \[14:34\] down the rugby league pathway and book titles. I found a reel that jumped into the algorithm — I think it's come through an account called The Running Week, but I loved it. And for anybody who's just done a Gold Coast half or full, or maybe you're just in a bit of a flat zone with your running, I'm going to play you this reel. Here's the audio: "You don't want to run today? Good. In Kenya we have a rule for days like this — put on your shoes, go outside, \[15:05\] run for five minutes, only five. Then you're free to stop, no guilt. But watch what happens after minute three — the legs warm up, the head goes quiet, the excuses get tired, and you keep running. Not because you must, because now you want to. I coach runners in—" and I'll cut it there, it goes on. But I love that, because we've all had that day — so true, we've all had that day where you think about the run you should do, or you're meant to do, or you'd normally do, \[15:35\] and it feels big and your head drops. I just love how simple that is — go run for five minutes, you almost always feel better once you're out there, and I love that idea of watching what happens at minute three. Nearly always. But I also love that it's fine if you finish the five minutes and still don't want to run — stop, stop running. Anyway, I wanted to share that because I think it's a good bit of running motivation to kick off your Saturday or Sunday, if you're listening to it then, or a 15-minute \[16:06\] run off the back of it. I was going to bring this up later, but off the back of that — because I'm in that situation right now, and to a degree you still are too, off the back of your Miler — it's the same, your recovery's just a lot longer than what I'm facing after a marathon. But I was thinking about this finish-line scenario — when do you get back, what do you do, and these are the things I now look forward to, I really like this. It was going through my head while I was running this morning, and I landed on number one: jumping straight back into a \[16:40\] structured build with a goal, because I need that finish line. There we go — that is the finish line, Finding Finish Lines is the Courtney Atkinson story. So straight back in for a goal, no "we'll work it out down the track," we know what we're doing and we're going to go towards it. The second thing I'm really looking forward to is that I'm far enough away from that goal that I can have a bit less structure as well — get back to the trails, some creative writing, I want to get back on the trails, I missed the trails, that was one thing. \[17:11\] The third one is, because I had such limited preparation for that marathon, I want to go back and do some shorter stuff again — not like 2K, 1K, mile times or records or anything, just 10K, get the legs ticking over a bit more. God, I can't wait till daylight savings comes back — well, not daylight savings, I can't wait till the sun comes back at a reasonable hour, it's getting dark, even 5:30 this morning, still dark. That's why we live in the north — \[17:42\] you don't have to go out in the dark, don't need a headlamp. And then finally, all that together — it's not about the run, the gear I'm looking forward to getting, because I pulled back, because I was so concerned about getting injured with things happening in the marathon build, the last bit of the build I was like, I'm not going to try that, not going to try that, stick to what's working. So I'm actually looking forward to going back and trying different shoes — reasonable attitude to take. So there's my five cents. Now that you mention shoes, perfect little segue. \[18:13\] Have you seen the latest news that's broken in the running space? "ASICS Overtakes Nike on Strava as Runners Ditch Heritage for Performance" — that's basically the headline, right? And that's the top line — this has come about through Strava data that's been released to some extent. I'm getting all this from an account called RunningCru.com, we'll give them credit, because that's where it's popped up from. The data reveals something Nike's \[18:45\] executives might find uncomfortable — when runners vote with their feet, they're choosing foam technology and daily comfort over swoosh recognition. Comments across running communities echo the same sentiment: "ASICS and Brooks are far superior to Nike running shoes," writes one runner, while another notes that everyone knows by now you can't wear carbon plates daily. The numbers don't lie, but they tell a story Nike probably didn't see coming — for the first time, ASICS has surpassed Nike as the most recorded running shoe brand on Strava, marking a major shift in how runners choose their daily footwear. \[19:16\] Do they cite where this came from? The only reason I ask is there's usually access to Strava's mid-year data, or they put out a report. I did a quick AI scrape of the web, I can't find anything that's come out recently — so what I'm wondering is, am I out of the loop, is it a leak, or is the only thing I can \[19:49\] find that Brooks made a 2026 announcement themselves? Does that read like a bit of a marketing piece to you, what you just read out? It's a very interesting question — I'm sure they're not coming out with that without some backup evidence, but yeah, it's weird. So this is Strava's 2025 data — that's the data they're citing, apparently confirming the \[20:21\] ASICS Novablast has overtaken the Nike Pegasus as the world's most logged shoe. Is that — is that what's in this? I think we should challenge this. Good, because — is this signing off on the 2025 data? The thing about this post, when I saved it, is that it went up this week, basically — went up a day ago. \[20:53\] You know what, let me — because it's one of those things where it says comment the word below and we'll DM the link — give us a link. In 2025, as far as I can see — and I've got a feeling we actually went through this — ASICS was the most-logged running shoe brand in 2025, Nike second, Hoka third. I don't know where this Brooks thing comes from. Well, the Brooks comment was just someone commenting that — here we go, \[21:23\] in the US, Brooks was the leading brand. I see, okay, so this all makes sense — ASICS, Nike, Hoka, Brooks, in the US alone, right? Okay, so like I said — whenever you see something on socials, you should challenge it, because you can read into it and think, well, this is happening, but there's always a caveat — that's in the US, what's happening down here in Australia, \[21:53\] what's happening in the UK? I would think — we've kind of had these conversations before, about Adidas kind of winning at the pointy end, in the battle against Nike, not in the dad shoes — not in the dad shoes, no. And I think, anecdotally now, this is just in my brain, no data to back it up, ASICS don't jump out to me as \[22:25\] a shoe that's kind of a daily-runner type shoe. I know you and I both ran in the Bostons for a while — I hate to steal my PB shoe, my sub-1:30 half marathon shoe, the Boston. But when I think about run clubs at the moment, I don't picture a lot of ASICS in my head. Their Blast range is getting lots of good feedback — there's a few different Blasts, I'm not sure exactly which one, the Superblast, the Novablast. \[22:55\] That Blast range for ASICS is getting a lot of positive feedback at the moment from runners. But subjectively, what do you feel like you see most of when you're around the Gold Coast? Most I think I see is ASICS — I don't know whether it's because of the type of runner I hang out with, or the runs I do, but I'd say that's the \[23:26\] dominant shoe. Maybe it's just the dad shoe, as you pointed out — maybe it's because I'm spending most of my time with dads. I don't know, I don't think ASICS is so much a dad shoe, is it? No — I still view ASICS in my mind as sitting in that performance-based, traditional-runner space. It's not — I know they're going hard on their streetwear side of things, trying to appeal to that younger demographic, and I think they're \[23:58\] doing it well. But as a runner, the Novablast, the Superblast — those shoes still feel to me like, I'm more than just a hobby jogger, I like to chase PBs, so this is the shoe I'm going to train and race in. When I asked you that question, I'd just run along the Esplanade for an hour this morning, and I thought, I'm curious, I'm always looking at people's shoes, whatever's going on, I'm always taking it in. What do you feel like you saw most? It's a bit like the old buying-a-car factor, where you \[24:33\] think you never see one of them, then you buy the car and suddenly see it everywhere. I was running in — I had a mental blank — Vomeros this morning. I noticed Vomeros everywhere, but I didn't notice other ones. I noticed I ran past a few people wearing Vomeros and it logged in my brain, they're running in Vomeros, and I thought, there's a lot of Vomeros out here this morning. But subconsciously, I reckon I was just picking it up because that's what I was wearing. \[25:05\] I didn't really take much notice if it was an Adidas shoe, wasn't looking down thinking, is that a Boston, is it whatever other model. It's called the frequency illusion — the Baader-Meinhof phenomenon, that's what it's called. It occurs because once a new item enters your awareness, your brain subconsciously flags it, making it seem like it's suddenly appearing everywhere when it's always been there. That's it. And I think if you asked most people that same question, subjectively, what shoes do you \[25:35\] think are around most, they'll lean towards the ones they're choosing themselves, because that's what they're subliminally seeing. So this is heading into the marketing world in a big way. The other thing that comes to mind is I've talked a bit about this with radio before, about the way radio ratings work — we need to put out the best show we possibly can every single day, but that's not the only ingredient in winning the ratings, it's also about marketing — \[26:07\] things like bus-stop ads and all the rest of it. It's that ability to make you think you're seeing it everywhere — people think they're seeing and hearing our show everywhere all the time, which is why you want socials as well, all the rest of it. Which is a factor I hadn't thought of, because I subjectively asked, when you're running, what are you seeing around you — but another impact is probably if you're someone who scrolls a lot, that's true, what you're seeing socially with your friend groups, or your algorithm, or whatever's driving it at you. \[26:38\] That's the other purpose of being top of mind, right. I'll tell you what, here's one for everybody listening — anecdotally, message us, send us a comment on this episode with where you run or train, roughly what area, and the shoe you see most, because it'd be really interesting to know if that then matches the shoe you run in yourself. I'd be fascinated, because the other thing I felt was I went through a phase after I bought those \[27:10\] Salomon XT-6s, I saw Salomons everywhere, and Salomon's streetwear shoe did go through a phase of being everywhere — but I felt like once I bought those pairs, I started seeing them everywhere. So it's true, it works. I just did a little test on the In The Beginning Podcast Instagram, because the algorithm's obviously heavily skewed to running — we only follow running stuff. The first thing that came up when I was scrolling — not the first thing, \[27:40\] the first shoe I saw when it came up, was actually Tempo Journal promoting the New Balance SuperComp Elite v6 — so a New Balance popping up. You can imagine, it's just as much what you're seeing on the street as what you're seeing scrolling — and at the moment, I haven't seen another shoe pop up in that feed. Here we go — "ASICS Takes Over Nike on Strava," yeah, they must have been listening to you. And then the next one that pops up is Nike. Yeah, this is where we are \[28:13\] right now — leads us nicely into a thing about merch and event merch. Yes, you're going to love this, because last week I spoke about wanting to review event merch. We also talked about the ASICS Sydney Marathon colourway that ASICS released. Grace Brady left a comment on last week's episode, saying: definitely a lot of specialty event shoes out there, 99% of the time it's just a colourway though — this Novablast for Sydney, London, always colourways from brands, is a perfect example. Over the years, Boston's had \[28:43\] some shockers. Grace went on to say events definitely need better merch — it means more when it looks good and you can actually wear it outside of race weekend, or wear it as a trophy. Nike Melbourne does it very nicely, as does the Sunshine Coast Marathon. The reason I bring this up is my wife — this is a shared opinion, Nick and Holly Ranson are very strong on this too — and Alana, my wife, recently hit me with it after doing the Goldie Marathon as well. Both of them reckon event shirts, event merch, are not to \[29:17\] be worn post-event, not to be trained in. Now I inherently disagree — is there a reason behind that? I think the vibe of it is that it looks like you're a bit of a running nerd — not the good running nerd who loves their gear, but just a bit of a — you could also be seen as a traditionalist in that sense, you love it, well, so I \[29:48\] answered that argument to Alana at the time, I said, what about my UTA Miler shirt? And she said, you can get away with that because it's pretty niche. But her argument was, if she's running along and sees people running in their event shirt, event gear, she's kind of like, it's done, move on. It was interesting — what do you think? I've always going to have a pretty skewed view on this, \[30:19\] I don't keep my running — I don't keep my adventures. Did you keep your marathon medal? Where's your marathon medal? Yeah, good question. You're done — okay, good question. Okay, I'm not sure — but before we get to running in the shirt, I'll say this: I never run past someone wearing their event shirt and think, my god, look at that. \[30:49\] Do you know what I actually think when I see it? I actually think it's a good use of money. If you've got five quality running shirts in your rotation, and you get a great one, because some events do a great quality shirt — for instance, Wings for Life World Run, Adidas do the top-of-the-range Adidas running shirts for it, go for it, an amazing shirt, good quality \[31:19\] fabric, probably better than the majority of run shirts you'd go out and buy. I say use it — I forget the name of the brand, but I said the same thing about the T100 t-shirt. That's right, yeah. What was that brand? I don't know the brand, but it was amazing quality. So I'm all about looking at it from a quality point of view — if it's valuable in the sense that the quality's great to run in, Pressio, if the quality's great to run in, I'm 100% going to go for running in it. I don't \[31:53\] have a real issue with it at all, no problem. And I love seeing it — I love seeing the Gold Coast Marathon shirts once being run along the Esplanade. Grace, thank you for the comment, and we're going to continue trying to review some event merch, I'm looking to get my hands on some stuff at the moment. I also wanted to share this, because remember last week you and I tentatively danced into the conversation around the \[32:23\] sporting broadcast recommendations that came out of Europe, and we asked for some feedback, and we got it. Ben Hogan sent us a message saying: I'm all for the new sports broadcasting regulation, we watch a lot of Suncorp Super Netball, love it, highly recommend checking it out, and I find it disgusting how many deliberately low camera angles are used, for no other reason than capturing an upskirt shot — it doesn't add to the match coverage at all, and they don't need it to promote the sport. Go to any game and you'll find full stadiums and plenty of blokes who genuinely enjoy it. \[32:53\] Thanks, Ben, for the message — we got a few come in on netball specifically, yes, Super Netball. I think netball is clearly the comparison here in Australia — this is about the European regulations that have come in, and the most transferable equivalent for us here is Super Netball. And you're spot on — my brother-in-law and my sister-in-law \[33:38\] — if they're not feeling comfortable getting their job done, then they should at least have the opportunity to have a conversation about it, for sure. I'm just rereading what he said, discussing how many low camera angles there've been — have you watched Super Netball, the league? No, I haven't watched one for a while — which one, I can't remember. \[34:09\] Well, the reason I ask is I haven't either, but I'd be interested to see what kind of coverage they do in general, nothing to do with camera angles, just because netball's such a massive participation sport here in Australia — huge. What they do with the actual broadcast would be quite interesting — maybe one for homework this week, Liam. Speaking of other sports and the way they're covered — the Tour de France, I made the \[34:39\] comment the other week about how much I watch the Tour de France, and how I sometimes get a bit bored with it. But it's blown up this week, Courtney, for all the wrong reasons, right? Talk to me about Jonas Vingegaard — he's out of the Tour, he crashed out and broke his collarbone, been ruled out. But it's what happened in the lead-up to that I want your thoughts on. As I understand it, and as \[35:12\] it's been told to me, the night before the stage where he crashed out and broke his collarbone, he had a knock at the door from the drug testers at 2am in the morning. It's crazy — surely that can't be allowed? Well, it obviously is. How is it possible that — and Pogačar, from what I understand, is going to win this thing anyway — he also got woken up, not that early himself, \[35:44\] he was also, I believe, tested. To me this is an — the old "doesn't pass the pub test" is a layman's way of saying, I can't be bothered understanding the intricacies of it, but this doesn't pass the pub test. This isn't a reasonable way for drug testers to manage these elite athletes, it doesn't seem like common sense, does it? Did you ever have a 2am knock at the door? You've told some stories \[36:14\] before about drug tests. I'll tell a story about a train later, but what I'm assuming — and this is a complete assumption — the reason they go for that time is to try to catch anything happening within a certain window. Is that how small the window is to catch some of these prohibited substances? \[36:44\] I'm not across exactly what they're trying to catch, but if there's some type of dosing that clears out of the system in a certain time period — that was my first thought when I heard it. My initial thought was, they're not waking them up for the sake of it, it's purely to think, if the race finished at 3pm, we want to test within a five-hour window of the race to get markers at that point, right. \[37:18\] That's what I'd suggest, I don't know that for certain — but it doesn't make it right, in any shape. If you're in a race like the Tour de France, where there's a lot of money, a lot of accolades, a lot of visibility involved — unless you're going to wake every single rider up at 2am and drug-test them all at the same time, that's completely unfair. \[37:48\] So how do we — I'm going to go broad here for a moment and try to funnel it in. At the end of the day, all this stuff — I was having a conversation, I won't say who with, with a footballer the other day, about where they are in their career and where the team they play for is. The conversation we were having \[38:21\] basically arrived at a point where both of us said, at the end of the day, it's just a game. It's a game with a lot of money attached, a game with a lot of careers attached to it. The Tour de France is the same — it's worth however many millions of dollars, people's careers and legacies are built around it, but at the end of the day, it's a bike race we've made up, \[38:52\] okay? It's just — we as a society, we as humanity, made this race up. And it's gotten to the point now, because of the level of interest and the money involved, that it's so valuable these athletes will cheat to win it — thank you, Lance. And on the other side, the officials will now interrupt one of the athletes at 2am in the morning to make sure he's not cheating. \[39:24\] And at some point it's a bit like playing Monopoly — when someone has all the properties, you kind of go, what's the point playing this anymore? If it's now at the point where these athletes are so scrutinised they can't get a night's sleep in the lead-up to a race, what's the point of having the race? Well, that's the question with this particular case, being woken at 2am — but if you take a step back — \[39:55\] I don't want to take a step back, I don't want to be over the top about it. I want to take a step back — you go, that's the extreme, and I don't agree with that extreme, but the flip side is, if you don't try — and this isn't just cycling — if you don't try to have something in place, the only alternative is to be an open slather for the enhanced guys. Exactly. So on one hand, and I've had fifteen years of people coming into my house, taking blood at my kitchen table, going \[40:28\] through it all as an endurance athlete — we went through it all, bloods and urine, every time. You don't like it? No, but did I, at any time, look at them ringing the doorbell when you don't know it's coming and think, not tonight, of all nights? But if they're not doing that, and hopefully across the world in equal capacity, what's the other option? It's just going to be a \[40:59\] race to the top, or a race to the bottom, however you want to look at it. I generally don't like it — in AFL and NRL when there are rule intricacies and someone goes, what happens if that decides a grand final, I think it's such a catastrophic way to view things, and it's a bit melodramatic, but I'm going to do it — if, in the lead-up to one of your Olympic Games, as an Olympic athlete specifically, when you're on a four-year cycle and you're \[41:31\] training right up to that moment, and suddenly that knock on your door comes at 2:30am in the morning because they're allowed to and they want to — you could be the most reasonable person on the planet, but if that blows up your Olympic race the next day, what's the point? What's the point in these athletes dedicating themselves entirely, only \[42:01\] for it to be blown up on the early morning of the event, because some people might be cheating? Yeah, and that's exactly why this has blown up this week, because it doesn't seem reasonable. It's the kind of — like if it was a footy game, for example, and you played late at night and loaded up on caffeine before the game, so you're dehydrated, playing here in Queensland, and the testers grab you after the game. \[42:32\] You could be there for one, two, three hours, depending what time the game finishes, until you finally get your sample out, which can take a while — that's just kind of part of what it is. This week's been a different scenario, but I'll tell you the funniest one — go on. It was after a race, I believe in Lausanne, or maybe Hamburg — Lausanne or Hamburg, and all I can remember is we're at the train \[43:04\] station, my wife was with me, some of the Australian team, other athletes, maybe a couple of coaches, and we were standing on the platform. Actually, let me go back and tell it properly — we were walking out of the hotel to the train station down the road when the drug testers turned up and spotted me. So how it works is, once the drug tester sights you, it's like in the American movies when you get subpoenaed — \[43:37\] they finally have their envelope. Imagine it like that — once the drug testers had sighted me and said, I'm such-and-such from ASADA, or WADA, whatever it was at the time, effectively they can't let you out of their sight. If you go out of their sight, the onus is on you and it's a failed test. So it's as simple as that. So I'm coming \[44:07\] out of the hotel, bags in hand, heading to the train station to catch a train, then a plane back to Australia, and I said, we can't wait — what are you going to do? They said, fine, we'll come along. They came down to the train station with me, and I'm — I think we'd had a pretty big night after the race, so I've got no chance at this point, and I'm still — the train's about five minutes away, we're all standing there going, we've got to get back to Australia, you've got to make a \[44:39\] call, what are we going to do. They end up getting on the train with me to the airport, heading to wherever we're going next — I ended up having a guy in the train toilet with me, watching me pee. Got it out, they got to the next stop and turned around, went back. Imagine him going home to his kids and being asked, what'd you do today, Dad? Oh, I stood in a train toilet with this Australian triathlete, \[45:13\] waiting for him to pee — why are you home late? Well, because I had to catch a train back with a warm cup full of urine. Honestly. And again, you take it back to the start — that organisation only exists because of greed, because of desperation, because people see these made-up races we've created as being so worthy of winning that they're prepared to cheat. But if you want to take it down to a more basic level, it's a form of policing. \[45:46\] And the reality is, whatever part of society you're in, you need some form of discipline or policing — if you don't have it, what do you have? Chaos. No matter — we're talking drug testing here, it's a long way from that, but it's the same point — without proper discipline and policing, you have chaos. You have to have some form of it, and that's no different in sport. I don't know how we got here, but it's been an \[46:17\] interesting ride. How's running going, where are you at? Well — the one main thing people are going to shout at us about, that we haven't mentioned, is the mile world record. Let's talk about it — the mile world record, yes. El Guerrouj, 1999, a 27-year-old world record, Scottish — sorry, can you remember El Guerrouj? Were you interested \[46:47\] in him? I wasn't like I am now, but I remember him as a runner — my best friend, El Stevenson, was running at Olympics/Commonwealth Games level in the 1500 metres at the time, in that arena, and El Guerrouj at the time was the man, he was just unbeatable. So I remember this period really well, as far as 1500 metres go, over the last six, seven decades, even prior to when I was born, you hear all the \[47:17\] stories — for me, he's the man. He held the record all that time. Can you imagine what he was doing in 1999 to run that fast? He's 51 now — I don't feel like I see a lot of him out and about as a public figure. But Josh — so Joshua Kerr has gone out and broken that record. He's — for the way we celebrate our athletes, \[47:49\] it's a bloke from Scotland — can you imagine? This isn't just one of the most historic, momentous distances, but the record is held by one of the greats of running of all time, and for Joshua to go out and break it the way he did is a remarkable thing. He did it at the London Diamond League, which I also love, that it wasn't a Breaking2-style event or anything like that, \[48:21\] wasn't a purpose-built event designed to help him break the record. Well, effectively — is it not an official record? What do you mean? Well, it is here, but if you go and do it in a time trial, under conditions that aren't official, it's not an official record. No — but you know how everyone said Eliud Kipchoge was the first man to run a marathon in under two hours, which technically he was, but it wasn't officially a world record. What I love about this is \[48:51\] Josh Kerr set out with his own Project 222, the required number of seconds for him to break the record — he ran that 1200 metres he put up on YouTube as a time trial beforehand, showing the capabilities of what he was doing, it was all out there in the open. Someone actually wrote in to us this week about cycling being more interesting because of the stories — this is what running needs, right? \[49:21\] This was a story everyone could follow along to, and it had an outcome at the end. I think this will be an interesting one — I'd be interested to get people's thoughts, because you and I have talked a lot before about Nedd Brockman, who's built himself a platform and a profile and a world around doing hard stuff, Ned's out there to challenge, Ned's out there. And right now I know for a fact \[49:51\] he's aiming for a really fast marathon time — he's been putting in the work, training his backside off with his mate Harry Garside, friend of the pod, Ned's in good shape at the moment. But Ned will admit the two big challenges he set himself, objectively, he failed — he didn't beat the record for running across Australia, and he didn't beat the 1,000-mile record he tried to break around the Sydney Olympic sports precinct, I think it was 1,000 miles, whatever it was, he \[50:23\] didn't successfully break either record. Now, this isn't me knocking it, I love it — but what Josh has done, why it's even more impressive beyond the time itself, and this is part of his persona as an athlete, is he's almost got a sprinter's mentality to the way he approaches it. He said, I'm going to do it, and he laid it out there. If you go out there and put \[50:54\] it on the table that you're going to do something, and show and display it all, there's nothing hidden, here it is — and then you don't go out in a purpose-built event, you go out in a Diamond League event in London and do that. Incredible, such an amazing performance. I mean, let's not beat around the bush, he just broke one of the longest-standing records — he's the fastest miler ever, and did it all \[51:25\] around us watching. So you challenge athletes to have a story and show everything — he did everything the new media, the new-age audience wants from an athlete, and still produced the performance at the end. That's what's made this one so much more unique than anything before, I think — okay, he's got someone else filming him, but he's self-driven on YouTube showing it, it's him doing it all, it's not \[51:56\] a team behind it, it's not Nike, for example, behind the sub-two-hour marathon project, that's all done from the outside — we're watching, but it's more driven by him. And then that's not really comparable to most of the things we're seeing. But you'd know what it takes — you do know what it takes to dedicate yourself to achieving an athletic goal. \[52:27\] How would you have gone in your career if someone had said, alright, Courtney, you're training for the Olympic Games, your goal is to win gold — now bring social media production into your planning? Different times, wouldn't even — but that's essentially what these athletes have to deal with now, and that's why I think we're both making the same point about Josh — the record stands out above maybe \[52:58\] any other record set to date, because of the way he's done it, in this new social-media world that exists around running. Very cool. Does it change your view on Brooks at all? What do you mean? Does he run for Brooks? I had no idea. Obviously not, no — does he run for Brooks? Yeah, there — that didn't have the cut-through, that's why brands probably do it and not individuals. Is Brooks the brand? \[53:29\] I didn't know that. It was a — I was interested to know, I'd had a few people reach out and say, does this change things for Brooks? And I'm like, well, does it, if most people watching don't really realise it? It's interesting — if a brand's pushing it and doing the media and the content, there's a real commercial outcome, versus when it's the individual doing it more so. I'm just looking — \[54:01\] I'm trying to digest — I don't want to say Andy Brooks, I'm not Andy Brooks. What I don't get, and this is where branding is an important part — I've jumped onto brooksrunning.com, and it says: on July 18, 2026, Brooks Beast Josh Kerr broke the world record. What is Brooks Beast, is he a Brooks athlete, or a Brooks Beast athlete? What's the Beast part? Is that the shoe he ran in? Brooks Beast is a shoe. \[54:34\] It doesn't seem like — okay, the Beast is the shoe. Terrible name for a shoe, you reckon? At least it's easy to say. It's a terrible name, but it's easy to say. Okay, so the Beast is the shoe — so Josh Kerr's a Brooks athlete, but he doesn't run in the Beast when he runs the mile, obviously not. Shout out to Brooks, though — part of a brand's challenge is identifying \[55:08\] the right athletes, and in this case Brooks have nailed it, they've hit a home run — they've put their shoes, their merch, their equipment on an athlete who, as we just said, achieved one of the greatest records set in recent memory. Tip of the cap to them. I'm just reading quickly on the website — they tailored the innovation, he toes the start line at the London Stadium in a customised, head-to-toe kit tailored to his body, foot shape, preferences. I don't know if I've \[55:42\] said this right — Hyperion, put through 222 rounds of testing, it was a custom race-day spike. There you go, okay, great, custom race-day spike. Go back to that bit about the uniform and the kit he wore — that was his secret weapon, apparently, featuring aerodynamic and temperature-regulating concepts as the sole tester. I like it, it looks like a triathlete outfit. Well, this is what I was about \[56:13\] to say — Brooks, your tech is clearly world class, undeniably world class, but I don't know if Josh made the decision about the aesthetic of it, it's just black. If you're about to create a moment, if you're that confident your athlete's going to create a moment in your kit, you'd think back to the Cathy Freeman suit — \[56:47\] you'd want it to be flouro or something, stand out more, because right now, in a stationary photo, he just looks like a Kiwi track runner, a New Zealand team uniform. There's a missed opportunity there — put the Scottish flag on it, I don't know, there's a missed opportunity. I'm nitpicking now, because what an amazing job, it's amazing, absolutely amazing. We talked about the YouTube and \[57:18\] following along with it — I just clicked in, because on that website, that 1200-metre time trial I mentioned on YouTube — we want to say only, but it was viewed 76,000 times. I would have thought it'd have been absolutely consumed. Brooks — we said it wasn't Brooks driving the content, but they also did a \[57:48\] Project 222 YouTube series, they averaged between 7,000 and 40,000 views per episode. Can I — is that success for them? I don't know what their metrics are, but can I propose a reason — timing? You reckon, because of the World Cup? Not only the World Cup, but the Commonwealth Games, and you've just come off the \[58:19\] back of Wimbledon — if you're an English athlete doing this in London, Wimbledon's just finished. Yeah, but I'm talking about runners specifically — there are a lot of young middle-distance runners around the world who'd be interested. But if you're in that space, what have we talked about — it's all about noise, creating noise and making noise. And right now, in the sporting sense, is maybe the noisiest time of the year, and they've picked a really noisy one. If you shout in a noisy room, it's a lot harder to be heard \[58:50\] than if you shout in a quiet room. How much does the Commonwealth Games come across your desk? We're Channel 7 — I'm an employee of Channel 7 these days, with Southern Cross Austereo, we're the broadcasters for it, so we're the host broadcaster of the Commonwealth Games. I'm looking forward to it — I still think any opportunity for Team Australia to come together as a group, for our country, that's still perhaps the Commonwealth Games. It definitely doesn't have the shine and lustre it used to have, \[59:21\] but I think any opportunity Australia can get behind, as a country, behind a team of athletes representing us, is still a pretty special thing, because we invest so much of our own identity into our sporting teams. So that's where I'm at, looking forward to seeing a lot of the runners we've talked about. Do I think the Commonwealth Games has a future beyond these Games? Don't know — I wonder how many of you listening even realised it \[59:52\] was about to start. When's it starting? Well, it'll have started by the time this comes out — you'll know about it by then, you'll see it plastered everywhere. But the lead-up's got to be one of the quietest I've ever seen around a global — well, it was meant to be here, this is the Games that were meant to be happening here, in regional Australia, that's why it's stripped back. As we have a look, we're in 2026, the reason I'd \[01:00:22\] tell people to really get around this is these are our Olympians, these are the athletes we're going to see in LA in 2028, that's the reason to get behind it and jump on some of these bandwagons early. Beautiful. Nice — do you have anything else you want to hit today, mate? I had one — Brad sent this in, hi Brad — we've been coming up with some ideas, and I had that notion, I think really early \[01:00:55\] when we started the podcast, that no idea is new — someone's obviously always onto it. Apparently Spencer Matthews, who I believe has quite a big podcast, did a whole series last episode on Clydesdale runners and running tips. So Brad, has he been stealing your ideas? Well, if he's smart, he would be — Spencer's to blame for the Clydesdale-athlete thing, the "can you run a sub-three-hour marathon" goal. \[01:01:25\] That's cool, Spencer. What else have I got — Jazzy, the Clydesdale from last year, wrote to me saying, why are you trying to lose weight, put 7kg on and step up into the Clydesdale class. Seven kilos on me? I'm not — Jazzy's what, 6'4", 6'3"? He's a tall fella. He wants a race — he's saying, \[01:01:56\] forget about losing, put some on and come to the real class. Anyway, it's easier to put weight on than lose it, as I'm finding, but I've got to strip down. It's funny, I got a message — I'll give him a shoutout, it was very funny, we're actually going to try to go for a run at some point over the next couple of weeks — I got a message from Reece, big shoutout, Reece Drummond, a local runner here on the Gold Coast. He sent me a message after last week's episode saying, hey mate, following your running journey a while, \[01:02:26\] I'm a Gold Coast local too, I can't help but notice the similarities between us — pace, distance, experience — but I basically ignored all that until today, would you believe. I'm normally 77 kilos and currently around 83, and the extra weight's making it hard to run — first mile at the end of this year too, enjoy your recovery, well done getting it done, it's a damn long way. Oh geez — so, headed for the Miler. Reece is in the exact same boat, he's had a look at the Strava numbers, we run similar pace, similar distances, and \[01:02:57\] now he's figured out we're both about six kilos heavier than we'd like to be. So Reece and I are going to catch up and go for a run at some point. And the slushy-truck idea — big, it went down well, Michael Griffin wrote in, can we have a Red Bull one please. And can we — if we could, I would. I mean, I was all for it, I'm like, any slushy \[01:03:29\] out there at — what is it, the 100-mile mark? I'm happy to have it at the 5K mark. How good's this 5K mark? Alright, well, that's another episode in the books. What are you running this week, how's the body feeling on your comeback? I'm getting it back up into the trails — haven't been back up in the trails yet, I've literally just run along the Esplanade every second day, 30 minutes the first week, 45 minutes per run the second week, ran an hour this morning, things are happening. I feel a little bit tired, these things — I think the marathon definitely did take a bit of a \[01:04:00\] toll. If you've trained yourself for the distance and your body can handle that, and you've done it over and over again, you'd respond a lot better — I went into a place I hadn't really trained for, so that seems expected, but I'm looking forward to getting back into some sessions. Any announcement, anything to announce yet? No announcements yet — okay, no worries. Would you believe I told everybody I'd kick off this episode with an announcement, \[01:04:33\] but during this podcast I missed a call, so we've got to wait till next week. I saw my phone go off in the corner during this podcast, about the thing I can tell people about — hopefully next week. We'll leave you there, I'll get that call back. We'll see you next week. See you then.